T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

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T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by KP_fan on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 11:08 am

Haddin VC
Smith named interim....is mark of respect to Clarke......" in case you are fit and come back" Shocked
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by KP_fan on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 11:14 am

CA makes the following clarification.....such transparency of what were the thought processes, helps everyone.
I was of the opinion and as I wrote, they might put Haddin as a stand in and smith the named "heir apparent"...but CA chose to bite the bullet and take no half measures.... clap

"Brad Haddin has done an exceptional job as vice-captain since assuming the role last year and will provide strong support to Steve just as he has done for Michael. There was a strong argument for Brad to assume the captaincy until Michael returns, but given we don't know how long that will be, we felt the time was right to take a longer-term view and give a young player this chance."
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by kingraf on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 11:17 am

That is interesting. Bit of a surprise, but not really I guess. Youngest Australian captain for three decades as well.
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by VTR on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 11:18 am

The kind of common sense, foresight and planning an England supporter can only dream of!

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 11:39 am

It makes sense and the statement puts the reasoning across well. Can't see Haddin as the kind of character who will let it bother him much either.

Will be interesting to see what kind of a captain Smith is to become. Also will be interesting to see what effect (if any) it has on his batting - my one concern would be that the added responsibility may prove a burden (as it has to others) and Australia really can't afford that with their batting as it stands.

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 12:02 pm

Yes, a sensible decision and well communicated. Good, I feel, for Australia that they are already looking to the future.

As regards whether the added responsibility proves a burden, I suppose that's a potential danger with any appointment and particularly with a younger player. However, I wouldn't be too worried about Smith. He seems to have brought a maturity and composure to his game over the last eighteen months or so. Not just in his shot selection but in the different types of innings that he's shown he can play so well.

He's also now one of the most nailed on selections for the team which undoubtedly helped his cause. Of other possible contenders, Warner's unreliable composure would rule him out of being skipper for me. Whilst I would have had no problem with Haddin being given the captaincy, I tend to feel that keepers already have an awful lot to do and that as a generalisation the post of vice-captain better belongs with them.

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by Pal Joey on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 12:44 pm

I'm happy with the decision. Got to think longer term and then act accordingly.
Hopefully he will fulfil the new captaincy role and continue to consolidate his batting performances.
I'm not too worried. I think he will quietly revel in it in an unassuming way.

Brad Haddin may not even be around the team in the short-medium term. It therefore makes the most sense, because for all we know, Haddin may have already indicated his future plans to the selection committee and other players. He is also a simple, humble and forthright kind of bloke.

Reading between the lines... I also think that the longer term news for Clarke's chronic injuries doesn't look too good. Both he and the team & management must know a lot more about the real state of his situation and the likelihood of him not ever playing again.

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by KP_fan on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 12:58 pm

Smith's task is made easier by the fact that they have a strong and now settled coach like Lehman.

So the coach can be the lead in running a lot of the team matters, until a young and relatively inexperienced Smith plugs in and settles-in.

Was Clarke the World cup captain also.....means is it Smith captaining the world cup side ?
or is it Bailey ?
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by freemo on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 4:10 pm

IMO fantastic decision.. Was going to be a future test captain anyway, and why not give him a go now.....hope he does really well..

in terms of odi cricket, i would assume Bailey will be skipper.

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by kingraf on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 4:22 pm

Slightly OT: but does anyone consider Clarke, if his time is done, a great captain? Honestly I'd say without a doubt yes, but I've had more time for Clarke than most. Winning in SA, going 5-0 in the Ashes. Drawing in Lanka, drawing in SA, three consecutive home whitewash summers (4-0 India, 3-0 Lanka, 5-0 England). Yes he's had his bad tours, but given the squad he's had, the odd beatdown was inevitable
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by KP_fan on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 4:41 pm

Lost Ashes not 5-0 but was it 3-0 or 4-0 ?
Lost in India 4-0
Lost to Pak 3-0 in UAE

How can that make anyone great.

He was largely a home track bully as a captain and as a batsman
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by KP_fan on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 4:47 pm

filtered(away) 2004-2014 51 3582 187 43.15
filtered( home) 2004-2014 53 4654 329* 62.05

a staggering 20 point diffrence between home and away batting averages Shocked
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by kingraf on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 5:12 pm

The Indian defeat is probably the only real blackmark. Realistically, Clarke had a sub par Australia team for large periods. Allan Border had a lot more defeats with what many would agree was a better team.

As for the home track bully argument... He has hundreds in England, South Africa, India, Sri Lanka, West Indies. And an average of 43... That's not the average of a flat track bully. I consider VVS Laxman a great... and his away average is lower than Clarke's.
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by JDizzle on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 5:45 pm

Think Clarke gets a lot of rope compared to say, Ponting, who most people don't seem to rate as a skipper. Ponting gets a lot of stick for being unable to replicate his success when his big guns retired, but Clarke seems a to get a bit of a pass for some of the stuffings he took. I can't remember many of the series results at the end of Ponting's career as captain, but can't think Clarke's when he took over were much better? Like I say, I have no issue with anyone rating Clarke but think Ponting needs to get a bit more credit too.

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by kingraf on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 6:44 pm

To be honest, I actually rate Ricky as a skipper. But there is no disputing the fact that for the majority of their reigns, they had different tools to work with. Towards the end of Ricky's, well, things got messy.
2-0 loss vs India
2-1 home loss vs SA
3-1 loss vs England
2-1 loss vs England
2-0 loss vs India

Should have lost to Pakistan, and to this day, I maintain there would have been some rotten fish pulled out if that tour was investigated. Too many inexplicable cricketing decisions from the Pakistani captain when they were on top, Akmal not "seeing" run out opportunities... If that 2010 tour was clean, I'm a monkey's uncle.

The point I'm making is that Ponting is probably held to hang from higher because his results literally dropped like lead once his star players left.
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by KP_fan on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 7:26 pm

kingraf wrote:The Indian defeat is probably the only real blackmark.
Realistically, Clarke had a sub par Australia team for large periods. Allan Border had a lot more defeats with what many would agree was a better team.

why is 3-0 vs. Pak in UAE discounted ?

As for the home track bully argument... He has hundreds in England, South Africa, India, Sri Lanka, West Indies. And an average of 43... That's not the average of a flat track bully. I consider VVS Laxman a great... and his away average is lower than Clarke's.

43 ain't  a bad average...and no-one I have seen has ever called him a "bad batsman"..and doesn't mean he will not score runs overseas.

Just not a super batsman or even a great batsman.......like Dravid, Tendulkar, Kallis ( and a few other. who have an positive or small differential between home and away averages).

Just a HTB( Home Track Bully)....no one called him a FTB Smile
and a big one with a difference of 20 between home and away batsman ....only Younis and Jaya are in that league....and also perhaps MoYo, Sangkara, Sehwag, Samarweera too.

HTBs are comfortable in their home environments and do not adapt to pitches/ weather/ travel/ culture/ partisan crowd pressure very well when in foreign climes...and that's why they are not great IMHO censored
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by kingraf on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 7:37 pm

Because it was actually 2-0? Losing 2-0 to Pakistan isn't the worst possible result in history. I don't think they've actually lost a series in UAE since the Mumbai bombings. So, no I won't hold losing a two match series against him. As for the Ashes, well, it got remedied so quickly, and so magnificently.

Clarke's away record is very good. You're downgrading him for being very good at him. Ostensibly, if he averaged 51 at home and 43 at home for a combined average of 47ish, you'd be willing to rate him higher. The idea doesn't make sense. You consider Sanga a HTB and he averages 50+ away!!
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by KP_fan on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 7:45 pm

kingraf wrote: You consider Sanga a HTB and he averages 50+ away!!

you'd have to take out runs in UAE, Ind, Pak and BD...all those are his "Patta" home conditions.
neverthless I put him under a category " to a lesser extent"
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by msp83 on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 9:09 pm

Think its a good call from the Australian selectors. Clarke's increasingly rebelling body is creating a challenge to his career itself. He's going under the knife for the hamstring issue, and with that troubled back and all, how long will he last at the top level? Haddin is not the youngest around either, Smith has a lot going for him in terms of qualities for the job, good, early call I would say.

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by Pal Joey on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 6:57 am

Australian team announced for the Gabba

Chris Rogers
David Warner
Shane Watson
Steve Smith (c)
Shaun Marsh
Mitchell Marsh
Brad Haddin
Mitchell Johnson
Mitchell Starc
Nathan Lyon
Josh Hazlewood

Pretty much as expected. Siddle dropped and Harris ruled out with a slight quad strain.
Smith moves one spot up the order.

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by KP_fan on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 8:42 am

I do not see Rogers and Watson holding on to their places for very long from that 11
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by kingraf on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 10:00 am

Interested to see Smith at four. Don't think Clarke was ever really comfortable there, and the fact that a few of his defining innings came in at four doesn't hide that. Will be watching with a keen eye
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by Pal Joey on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 10:23 am

KP_fan wrote:I do not see Rogers and Watson holding on to their places for very long from that 11

Agreed.
Watson is surely on borrowed time and probably the last chance for Rogers too.
I would like to see Khawaja recalled at some stage. He seems to have hardened up a bit and is great to watch.
Joe Burns would be another one to consider in the not too distant future.

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by KP_fan on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 10:25 am

^ so you think Aaron Finch and / or Maxwell are not in the running for a test squad place ?
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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by Pal Joey on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 10:43 am

Something about Finch... I don't think he's quite "all there". We already have Warner so I would rather see a different style opener as his foil.

Maxwell needs to grow up a bit more. Still too risky for me.
Sure, he brings a lot of enthusiasm on the field but I don't think his head is properly screwed on yet. (you can even see the self doubt on his face)

Both OK for ODIs and T20s though. They are more in their element. Maybe they can evolve into Test players down the track but not right now.

I prefer more traditional, sensible and rational heads in our Test team mostly.  I have no problems with players who can improvise when needed though... just not all the time. Surely Maxwell is aware of this. It annoys me when I keep hearing "...he's just playing his natural game"... just after playing a reckless shot.

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 3:21 pm

With Mitch Marsh gradually emerging as a number 6, Watson now has to start contributing majorly with the bat to hold his place. There's a lot to like about Hazlewood so will be interesting to see how he goes. Having said that Starc can be a bit inconsistent and Johnson looked a little off colour in the first test, so there is an opening there for India as well.

Interesting to hear mention of Khawaja again; guy got loads of natural ability but reputation for not being the hardest of workers. Has that changed? What has happened to Doolan, I thought he looked pretty reasonable the few times I saw him.

On the bowling front I was delighted to see Cummins back and bowling (very) fast. Any news on Pattinson? Australia do have a ridiculous wealth of fast bowling riches...

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Re: T2: Brisbane; Smith named captain

Post by Pal Joey on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 8:50 pm

James Pattinson has been playing for his local Premier cricket club Dandenong and also in the Victoria 2nd XI, Mike.

I heard something about him getting ready for the Big Bash after having altered his action and planning to get some Shield cricket behind him in February when it resumes.

Alex Doolan struggled in the UAE and was subsequently dropped. Perhaps a little harsh since just about everyone else had a horror tour against the Pakistani spinners. He hasn't had that great a start to the Shield season thus far... averaging around 16.5.

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