Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

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Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 6:13 pm

After the first test witnessed India staying alive in the game and taking the fight to Australia before undoing it all in the final session, the 2nd test is getting underway at the Gabba tomorrow. Both sides will see a change in leadership. Australia's regular skipper Michael Clarke is injured and isout of the series and Steven Smith takes over, while Mahendra Singh Dhoni, the regular skipper returns and takes over from Virat Kohli. How would Smith the captain look like? Will Dhoni stick to his pragmatic guns or take a more aggressive approach with his weak bowling attack?
Besides Clarke, Ryon Harris, the best Australian seamer in the first test, is also out injured, while the struggling Peter Siddle is dropped. Shaun Marsh comes in for Clarke, and Mitchell Starc and Josh Hazlewood come into the bowling unit. For India, Ravichandran Ashwin is likely to come back in place of the unimpressive Karn Sharma.
The preview from cricinfo indicates that the track is expected to be rather different from one on which the first test was played. If spin had lots going for it on that track, this one is expected to be quicker and livelier for the seam bowlers.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 6:30 pm

Think India should give Umesh Yadav a go ahead of any one of the seamers. He seemed a lot more in control even on flat roads in India in the limited over games, and he has always bowled fast.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 6:44 pm

With Mitchell Starc coming in, Australia bat all the way to 9, and Hazelwood and Lyon can hang around too. India's lower, without Bhuvneshwar Kumar and Ashwin, looked far too long in the first game. Bhuvi isn't fit yet to return, but hopefully with Ashwin back, and Dhoni back at 7, there would be a bit more solidarity to the lineup. If the track offers some help for the quicks, and if the Indians get to use it to good effect, this Clarke less Australian lineup does give them a theoretical chance. But if the offcolour Johnson rediscovers himself, and if Starc gets it right, then they'll be cooked.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 9:32 pm

Mitchell Starc has hardly played 2 tests on the go. Now that Siddle has been dropped and Harris not fully fit, he might perhaps get a decent run in the test side? The guy has some serious ability with ball and bat.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Liam on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 9:44 pm

Anyone know what's happening with Pat Cummins? Looked the real deal when I saw him on the SA tour a few years back. Some serious pace and quite accurate for such a young bowler. I know he had some injuries last time I checked, can anyone shed light?
Also will be interesting to see how Smith goes as captain. I think India need to get Warner out early first innings to stand a chance in the game. If he goes early, with Clarke out the side there's an opportunity to get stuck into the middle order.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 9:51 pm

Cummins and Pattinson add a great deal of depth and quality to Australia's pace bowling stocks. But unfortunately, they both have had some serious fitness issues. Have a feeling Australia will have Cummins focusing on ODIs at least up to the world cup as and when he gets fit.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Liam on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 10:13 pm

Yeh just read up and Cummins has been back, and is focussing on the big bash in order to get picked for the world cup, with an eye on returning to the Test side.

If your to level the series, what do India need to do msp in your opinion?

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 12:50 am

The Australian commentators (Healy, Taylor and Chappell) were suggesting a few minutes ago that Siddle being dropped was sightly harsh and surprising, particularly with Harris out injured. I refrained from posting earlier as I only saw snippets of the first Test and so couldn't come to a meaningful decision about how Siddle bowled then but that was also my immediate reaction.

I appreciate Australia have got an abundance of alternative fast men and there's a lot to be said in favour of competition for places. However, the merits of stability and continuity shouldn't be overlooked either.

Meanwhile, Vijay and Dhawan not looking fully secure but they are both still there. 36/0 off 9 and bed for me. Night, folks.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Duty281 on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 3:16 am

Decent start by India thus far: 100/1 at a nice pace. Vijay well set.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 8:33 am

Aus fell short by 7 overs in an extended days play.

--is the pitch easy, or Aussie bowling in-experienced or their captain too green or the Indians simply batted very well......we will find out when Aus bat.

--regardless India has done well on D1 in absolute terms to be in the position they are in at the end of D1.....and take a bow for Murali Vijay.....scored runs in Aus, SA, NZ and even on the disastrous tour of Eng.
Not a celebrated star, but has done so well in the most difficult form of cricket in difficult overseas conditions.

and that too facing the new ball.....

and in my view he already stands behind Gavsakr and Sehwag as the 3rd most accomplished opener I have seen in Indian cricket.

--Dhawan has one more inning to save his career.....and by the look of his dismissal....I doubt if he would make it...

he cannot play the free strokes on these pitches that define him as a batsman.

and he lacks the patience and technique to sweat it out...sooner than later he gives it away...through a loose waft.

--I would have so loved to see positive actions after all the positivity talk from India i.e Ashwin playing instead of Rohit to give us 4 seamers and one spin-allrounder

--Ian Chappell on commentary was so unkindly critical of Kohli on D1 of T1 for his slow over rates....completely discounting Kohli's newness and demanding a one test ban.

Today the shoe is on the other foot......half an hour extra taken and yet Smith falls 7 overs short.

While Kohli made up the rate using Vijay and Karn.......Smith could not inpsite of using himself, warner and 20 overs from Lyon.
We will see if he can make-up or the " Chappell judicial system" is applied fairly to hand him a ban next game, in case he cannot make it Very Happy

--I saw Mitch Marsh bowl for the first time and he short of test quality seam bowling.......more in the Stuart Binny, Steve Waugh, Colingwood / Bopara Category......and clearly short of Watson's speed and skill as a bowler.

--India has to bat atleats one session more to have a 400+ total in hand and put attacking fields when bowling. And with more "meat" in our tail, if we can bat two more sessions...then defeat is out of the equation and rarely to games draw in Brisbane if you get a full quota of overs Very Happy

a rare happy day for India
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by VTR on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 9:05 am

Excellent day for India - based on the scorecard as there is no way having a career I can watch these matches!

How is Johnson bowling? No wickets today and didn't take many in the first test - how is he going compared to the last Ashes?

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 11:17 am

Well I have a feeling....Aussies have taken liberty to play with some niggles / weaknesses and they are one bowler down and 2 not fully fit....and none of these is Watson who is susceptible to break in any given inning.
I guess the captain( and I mean Clarke here) sets the example.
They've gotta get ruthless about fitness if they are to remain a top side.

On the positive side Aus have a pool of 6 bowlers in the XI...so they have some cushion.
While India has just 4 and Aaron is always a weak link with fitness.....India will blow up their chances of taking 20 wickets completely  if they lose a bowler in first or early second inning

CI wrote:Mitchell Marsh will not bowl again in this Test after straining his right hamstring on a searingly hot day.

Mitchell Starc left the field during the middle session after struggling with back and rib pain, as well as the Brisbane heat, and debutant Josh Hazlewood battled cramps that forced him from the field shortly before stumps. However, both Starc and Hazlewood are expected to be available to bowl on day two, while Marsh's injury appears the most serious
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 12:11 pm

Only saw a few bits of play during the first hour but clearly India's day and a better one than I expected for them.

However, I'm sure that msp won't be celebrating too wildly just yet. He'll know that there are a lot of permutations left in this innings alone.

500 is not impossible from where India are although I feel that would be very optimistic. 450 might be a stretching but more achievable target. Alternatively, they could crash and burn for 370.

Going back to my comment last night, I do wonder if Australia replacing half of their main 4 man attack from Adelaide was a wise move. Siddle didn't set things on fire then but I did feel dropping him straightaway was a tad harsh. With the reliant Harris and Clarke, the captain, missing already through injury, perhaps one change too many and just a bit too disruptive? I haven't seen enough of this series (and certainly not enough of the fast men in competition with Siddle for a place) to be categoric.

Anyway - yet, yet again the first session of day two will be mighty significant.

One other thing - even allowing for the bowlers dropping like flies, an absolutely terrible over rate. Where is MfC?

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 12:24 pm

somebody say my name? Very Happy

So over-rates, yep! I didn't see the play, so always harder to comment. It also seems that there were several mitigating circumstances: extreme heat, multiple physio interventions when bowlers got injured/cramp, etc.

HOWEVER! To be a full seven (yes, SEVEN!!) overs behind, even after the extra half-hour, is simply awful, and indefensible. The whole point of the extra half-hour is that it's meant to be there for such circumstances (high run-rate, loads of wickets, physio interventions, etc.). As it is, Australia were basically an hour behind the rate at which overs should have been bowled. They didn't just bowl seamers throughout the day either, Lyon (and Smith and Warner) accounted for over a quarter of the overs bowled.

Without wishing to sound too much like a Broken Record what can be done? Fines clearly don't work. A one-match ban in Limited Overs seems to have little impact either (and a couple of T20 tournaments we had the rather ungainly sight of SL making Jayawardene captain for one game because the captain at the time was under threat of suspection). I think I've said it before but would runs penalties make more impact? Say 10 runs for every over unbowled (obviously you have to accept there can be exceptional circumstances...).

Or am I being a bore? Should it, in fact, not matter? In that, most Test matches end in results nowadays (certainly many more than when sides bowled well over 100 overs in a day), so is it that important if a few overs are lost here and there?

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 12:32 pm

on the cricket, seems like Johnson is still very affected by previous events, just flipping through the live commentary he still seems very reluctant to bowl his bouncer, which has made him pretty ineffective. Excellent day for India, and in particular Vijay who really has become a fine player. Aus aren't out of it, if they bowl well tomorrow (and they have the advantage of a new ball), they could dismiss India for around 400 (or not many more), which means they're still very much in the game.

India will hope their remaining batsmen and (slightly better) tail can push the score up towards 450-500 from which they shouldn't lose.

Australia's innings will be fascinating. In the absence of Clarke, Aus's batting seems quite heavily reliant on Warner and Smith (though Mitch Marsh has scored a few recently, and there are other good players, though they seem out of form). Warner remains the huge wicket that India will be desperate to get early. I'm not entirely sold on India's bowling attack. I know (from reading comments on here, I was rather busy at the time with my PhD Defence Very Happy) that Karn Sharma didn't make a great impression, but it seems harsh to drop him after just one test, and Ashwin hasn't set the world alight in his overseas performances so far (though I thought he bowled pretty well in England actually, without much reward). Yadav I like, he's a wicket-taker, but with him and Aaron (who also can go for a few, and whose fitness Mike questions) are you taking too big a risk? Obviously Kumar missing is a blow...

Overall though, a good day for India, who've put themselves in a decent position.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by VTR on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 12:39 pm

I think Ashwin's inclusion is to give some insurance in the batting as well. You just can't afford a tail like India had in the First Test these days. Looks a lot more solid with Dhoni at 7 and Ashwin at 8, pretty good in fact.

Whether India can take 20 wickets with their lineup is another question, but they did not get that near in T1 either.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 12:43 pm

MfC - in my book and in my wallet, it matters a lot. I and some friends have just forked out 95 quid each for a day at the Ashes Oval Test next year. Not the best seats in the house by any means. For that type of money, I don't think it's unreasonable that, subject to the weather, we should be guaranteed a minimum numbers of overs in the day.

Things shouldn't just be judged on whether the Test ends in a result but also upon what is actually served up to the paying spectator each day. Cricket forgets him or her at its peril ....

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 3:42 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Only saw a few bits of play during the first hour but clearly India's day and a better one than I expected for them.

However, I'm sure that msp won't be celebrating too wildly just yet. He'll know that there are a lot of permutations left in this innings alone.

500 is not impossible from where India are although I feel that would be very optimistic. 450 might be a stretching but more achievable target. Alternatively, they could crash and burn for 370.

Going back to my comment last night, I do wonder if Australia replacing half of their main 4 man attack from Adelaide was a wise move. Siddle didn't set things on fire then but I did feel dropping him straightaway was a tad harsh. With the reliant Harris and Clarke, the captain, missing already through injury, perhaps one change too many and just a bit too disruptive? I haven't seen enough of this series (and certainly not enough of the fast men in competition with Siddle for a place) to be categoric.

Anyway - yet, yet again the first session of day two will be mighty significant.

One other thing - even allowing for the bowlers dropping like flies, an absolutely terrible over rate. Where is MfC?
Indeed Guildford, I am not celebrating at all. Though with Dhoni and Ashwin in, the lower order has a greater look of solidity, India still can collapse if Rohit or Rahane goes early to the new ball tomorrow. With India these days, you really have to take it at most hour-by-hour...... Very happy for the first day performance though.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 3:49 pm

Like the team selection, Karn didn't impress me at all, and think Ashwin had to come back in for the all-round abilities he brings to the table. Hope he sticks to a good line and length and chip in with a few wickets too. And hopefully, he can score some valuable lower order runs as well. Umesh Yadav's selection is one I relaly like. Yadav, up to the home series against England, was really evolving before he got injured. Unlike Aaron, who has pace and not much else going for him, Umesh can bowl fast, and reverse the ball as well. Hope he keeps the pace up, and can improve on his accuracy too. Shami has regressed as a bowler, and so Yadav's selection is a pretty good one.
As for the play today, it was an outstanding effort from Murali Vijay. He has delivered in all 3 innings in the tour, and after missing his ton by a run in the previous innings, he made a big one today, and after weathering the early ripples, he settled in nicely, played some absolutely fabulous shots and looked in total control for most of his stay.
Shikhar Dhawan is struggling, and I agree with KPF, he has just one innings left to save his place....... Young KL Rahul is waiting in the wings, and unlike Gautam Gambhir in England, Rahul has come into the side on the basis of strong, consistent domestic form rather than past reputation.
Cheteshwar Pujara was very unfortunate to be given out the way he was, umpiring standards in the series so far hasn't been of the highest quality, and the BCCI policy on DRS is obviously not helping in reducing the number of errors....... Virat Kohli couldn't convert a good start this time, after his great efforts in the last game.
Ajinkya Rahane played a fine hand, and hopefully he'll be carry on further tomorrow. He looked far more in control and less frenetic than during his first test half-century. Rohit Sharma wasn't troubled much during his stay, can he deliver for the team at least now??

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 3:54 pm

Hazlewood was very lucky to get the Pujara wicket, but his 2nd session spell was suggestive of a good prospect for Australia. Having watched Watson and Marsh bowl in this innings, have to say the former is a much better option with the ball, if only he can stay on the park consistently. Said that, Marsh himself didn't take to the weather all that well, and won't bowl tomorrow. Hazlewood and Starc were also affected by fitness concerns.
The overrate from Australia was absolutely pathetic and unacceptable. Smith in first game as skipper, the not so friendly weather, fitness concerns for bowlers, all that were there, but this still was atrocious.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by freemo on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 6:13 pm

Pujara having a tough start to the tour....not helped by the decision he got today, but he has really struggled thus far..

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 6:16 pm

Pujara scored 73 2 innings ago. He didn't look settled in the 2nd innings against Lyon, and couple of balls from the same bowler troubled him a bit today as well, but he was settling down nicely when he found himself at the wrong end of a poor umpiring call.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 6:20 pm

Maybe for every over short of the required number the batting side should get extra runs awarded.  Something like the number of overs short multiplied by their average run rate achieved by batting side during that day's play. In this case that would mean a 26 run penalty.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Biltong on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 6:20 pm

I like that India is putting up a contest, considering that Kohli went early this is good.

First test was a great match, here's hoping this one will be as well.
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 6:24 pm

First test eventually turned out to be a fine match, but one can't forget the fact that India didn't come close to taking 20 wickets....... This pitch isn't a green top, Indian spinners do not usually come into the frame too much in away conditions. So........

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 17 Dec 2014, 10:41 pm

I miss the days when Glenn Maxwell opened the batting and bowling for Australia in a test match
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 1:15 am

msp83 wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Only saw a few bits of play during the first hour but clearly India's day and a better one than I expected for them.

However, I'm sure that msp won't be celebrating too wildly just yet. He'll know that there are a lot of permutations left in this innings alone.

500 is not impossible from where India are although I feel that would be very optimistic. 450 might be a stretching but more achievable target. Alternatively, they could crash and burn for 370.

Going back to my comment last night, I do wonder if Australia replacing half of their main 4 man attack from Adelaide was a wise move. Siddle didn't set things on fire then but I did feel dropping him straightaway was a tad harsh. With the reliant Harris and Clarke, the captain, missing already through injury, perhaps one change too many and just a bit too disruptive? I haven't seen enough of this series (and certainly not enough of the fast men in competition with Siddle for a place) to be categoric.

Anyway - yet, yet again the first session of day two will be mighty significant.

One other thing - even allowing for the bowlers dropping like flies, an absolutely terrible over rate. Where is MfC?
Indeed Guildford, I am not celebrating at all. Though with Dhoni and Ashwin in, the lower order has a greater look of solidity, India still can collapse if Rohit or Rahane goes early to the new ball tomorrow. With India these days, you really have to take it at most hour-by-hour...... Very happy for the first day performance though.

Msp et al - well, the first hour goes to Australia. India have lost Rahane and Sharma. Now 359/6 off 97.

Hazlewood the pick of the bowlers. Lovely length ball with a bit of movement accounting for Rahane who edged behind to give Haddin a part in all of the first 5 wickets. India clearly wanted Sharma to then kick on but he didn't stay much longer, following a slightly wide one from Watson and presenting a chance beautifully taken at second slip by Smith. Johnson still without a wicket but looking quick and on a decent line. Starc getting a bit of tap though in his opening over as Dhoni and Ashwin both approach 20 and look to take India beyond 400. Soon be time for Lyon, I reckon, but bed now for me ....

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Duty281 on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 3:17 am

Nice for Hazelwood to get a five-for on debut.

Fancy Australia to pile on the runs in this innings; particularly with the rubbish Sharma is serving up to Warner!

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 6:44 am

Well, India yet again making a right royal mess of things. Lost their last 6 for 98 today, and then after picking up 2 quick wickets just before tea, they are being lethargic on the field, dropping chances, giving away easy runs. Aaron all over the place and not bowling to the field, and after keeping things very quiet for some time, Ravichandran Ashwin is getting some tap from a proactive Australian skipper.
The None-Ton Marsh seems to be set for the latter today!. Not looking good for India........

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 6:58 am

All the seamers going for plenty, though Umesh Yadav has nipped out 3 wickets. Aaron just isn't getting much right so far. Ishant hasn't been taking wickets, hasn't looked like he'll do that, and has been giving away plenty. That Lord's test and those New Zealand 6fors are proving to be what many of us expected, the exception rather than the rule.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 7:06 am

Bad light.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 7:09 am

And that brings an early end to the day's play. Australia 221-4. Steven Smith set for another big one, seems the Indians have no way through to get him out.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 8:45 am

Well done to Hazlewood for his fivefer. As I said earlier, he was the pick of the bowlers in the opening hour that I watched. Three for Lyon as well - that's more like it, a useful and supportive contribution, not one of those head turning seven wicket hauls! Wink None for Johnson although I thought he bowled ok in that first hour. Starc having a hard time though and doing little so far to justify his replacing Siddle.

From his post, I can understand msp's frustrations with India. However, I still have them ahead. Whether they consolidate their position or hand the initiative to Australia will once more Broken Record be heavily influenced by the next opening session ....

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 8:47 am

Another interesting day.

I thought Australia were looking shaky at 121/3, however, as msp says, Smith steadied the ship once again and seemed to be enjoying his batting.
He took an absolute screamer of a catch to dismiss Rohit Sharma earlier in the day... but the sub fielder (Marnus Labuschagne) took another amazing catch at short leg off Lyon to get the wicket of Aaron.

The Indian bowling wasn't too bad at all. Some decent pace and a couple of chances were put down. Australia were sort of let off the hook.
Ashwin looked quite dangerous early (and was rewarded when Watson got drawn into another poor shot yet again) and he took a decent catch to dismiss Sean Marsh later in the day.

190 runs will not be an easy deficit to overcome if Australia lose early wickets tomorrow. Mitchell Marsh will have to hang in there and probably risk aggravating his already injured hamstring in support of Smith. It looks as if most batsmen have got starts so hopefully our lower order can also add a few more runs.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 9:16 am

--The game is poised to be a single-inning shoot out.

--wasn't a bad day for India with the ball given the general tooth-lessness with the ball we are used to seeing and yet,....I see the last 6 Aussie wickets will add about atleast 150 means the lead will be pretty small making it pretty much the battle of second innings.
At worst Aus might take a small lead, if Dhoni goes to his customary sleep when lower order partnerships build.

--We lost the opportunity while batting.
can't blame Dhoni and Ashwin...they delivered their par average score with the bat.
Its's Rohit sharma who got 2 or 3 tests in Eng and 2 tests here with nothing to show against his name as a specialist batsman.....and is the main reason why we finished 40-50 runs short with the bat in first inning.

and hence do not have any sort of grip on the game yet.

the problem is if Rohit is removed another proven failure Raina will come in.
This is a horrible jumbo squad with proven overseas failures..

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Mike Selig on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 9:22 am

Haven't watched much of the test, but was impressed with Hazzlewood from the first session. As I keep saying to a couple of my players if you can bowl a good line and length and move the ball away from the right hander then that's a very good start to work from. Of course at that level players also need to hit the pitch hard, but Hazzlewood does that, you can tell he gets plenty of nip and probably seems a bit quicker than his speed gun suggests.

I wrote on the other thread that with Johnson off colour and Starc's known unreliability that Hazzlewood could quickly become the go to man in his debut game, and that was potentially asking a lot of him, however it seems like he responded very well. Like guildford however I wasn't completely sold on dropping Siddle under those circumstances (new captain, already one change to the bowling, and your spearhead clearly not quite recovered from recent events). I just don't know about Starc; my feeling is he probably needs an uninterrupted run in the side if he is going to start performing, but with Harris set to return and all the other fast bowling options around I'm not sure the selectors will have that patience right now.

Surprised to see such negatives about Mitch Marsh's bowling. I thought he looked pretty good in the first test.

A word on Vijay: I was one who wasn't convinced about him for test cricket, but he really impressed me in England with his technique and patience/temparament, and it was a tremendous fighting knock in the last test. He doesn't appear to have an obvious weakness, so you always have to work hard to get him out. Really very good.

Yadav should really be one of the first names on the Indian team sheet for me. It's not as if India have wealth of seam bowling options, and whilst his batting and fielding are terrible for an international cricketer, they don't compare badly to that of his competitors Sharma, Shami, Aaron (which in itself is a really sad statement about Indian cricket).

Ashwin's runs have already proved some worth. Without him, India may have been rolled over for 350. With 400 on the board you don't lose that many test matches.

Having said that given the rate this game is moving on, a draw seems pretty unlikely. Much depends on the start tomorrow. Australia really need Smith to go and get another hundred (preferably a big one) and contributions from the rest of the order (they do have plenty of tail end batting) to get up to India's score at least. Any ideas about the pitch? The Gabba usually begins to turn on days 4 and 5, so Aus won't want to be chasing too many.

Oh and nice to see Rogers get some runs under his belt as well.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 9:36 am

Ashwin has already proved a better selection over Karn Sharma. As Mike said, his lower order runs already showed the value, and he looked quite good in his early spells, and got Watson out just when he was looking good. He did go for a few in his last spell, but that was the result of Australia really taking the attack to him rather than he bowling too badly or trying far too many things and going all over the place as he used to do in the past.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 9:59 am

msp83 wrote:Ashwin has already proved a better selection over Karn Sharma.

Really.....what is Ashwin's overseas records in tests.....AS A BOWLER
do you measure the lead spinner and one in 4 pronged attack for his batting ?

If the bar is set so low for a specialist spinner....then believe me, Raina, Rohit will all qualify as spinners...and Sehwag with his off spinning skills can make a comeback...because he may still be able to bat better than Ashwin at No. 7 or 8 Very Happy
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 10:32 am

I watched the opening session, and it wasn't great from India. Dhoni and Ashwin put on a nice partnership, but once that was broken they subsided really meekly. Yadav isn't a n°9, he's a n°11 and not a very good one at that. Odd that while India's outcricket has generally improved under Fletcher, the fast bowlers are still lagging behind the rest of the world in batting, fielding and fitness. Not good enough, and needs sorting.

Hazzlewood looks a fine bowler, as Mike says if you can bowl a consistent line and length and get the ball to move away from batsmen you'll generally be a handful. The pitch gave him just enough and he exploited it well. Starc was awful though. Johnson a bit better today but still seems reluctant to bowl his bouncer, and a bit down on pace. Lyon did pretty well and will always have a good chance of running through this tail, who basically play him by numbers.

Seems Yadav has justified his selection, and as Mike says he should probably be the first seamer's name on the team-sheet. Whenever I've seen him recently he's looked a good bowler. However, my fears on India leaking runs were in part realised, RR well over 4 runs per over! Seems Sharma (who's the seamer meant to at least provide some control) had a bit of an off-day (well I never!). Aus will be disappointed at all their batsmen getting good starts, but no one has gone on to make the big score that would set them up for a large total (with the caveat that Smith could, of course).

Test is nicely poised, as guildford says first session tomorrow feels crucial (just because it's something of a Broken Record platitude doesn't make it any less true guildford Very Happy).

To Mike, Lyon was getting the ball to turn quite appreciably in the morning session (got a few to genuinely turn - not just straighten - from around the wicket), and with the bounce edges will continue to carry. My gut feeling is that this is a result pitch, and not really a 400 pitch, but with the exceptions of Hazzlewood and Yadav (and to a lesser extent Lyon) the bowlers haven't really been up to scratch. One great spell of bowling could really turn the game on its head.

Finally, to show that guildford isn't the only one with Broken Record points: 79 overs in the day? really?!?!

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 10:48 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote: ...

Test is nicely poised, as guildford says first session tomorrow feels crucial (just because it's something of a Broken Record platitude doesn't make it any less true guildford Very Happy).
...

Finally, to show that guildford isn't the only one with Broken Record points: 79 overs in the day? really?!?!

Very Happy Thanks, MfC.

I didn't bang on today about the missing overs as I noticed that play ended due to bad light and wasn't sure how far behind (I'll be amazed if it wasn't behind) the rate it then was. I do trust you took my point yesterday about the paying spectator at the ground.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:06 am

It's Hazlewood guys. Only one "z".

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:12 am

I think they lost half-an-hour due to bad light, which would probably translate to 7 overs (maybe 8 if we're being generous), so they would still have been 3 or 4 overs short. OK slightly better than day 1, but...

I did see your post yesterday guildford, and I agree. Unless I'm much mistaken the idea of bringing in the "curfew" for close of play is relatively new (OK originally they just played six hours, then it got made 90 overs, then finally the current situation). I believe it was actually brought in for the TV broadcasters: famouly Steve Waugh's Ashes hundred at the SCG in 2002-2003 (where he reached it off the last ball of the day) wasn't on TV because Channel 9 had gone to their regular program at the supposed time of close of play. I remember this as I was in Aus at the time and we listened on the radio!! (those were the days Very Happy).

It seems the shift has gone from making sure the paying spectator gets his money worth to making sure the TV companies aren't too inconvenienced (OK I exaggerate slightly but...). Having said that, and playing Devil's advocate somewhat, when it rains the paying spectator also doesn't get full value (you only get money back if there's a significant chunk of play missed, right?). But generally I agree with you, I don't think it's unreasonable that you should get what you pay for...

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:13 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:It's Hazlewood guys. Only one "z".

serves me right for trusting Mike's spelling Laugh

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:32 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:It's Hazlewood guys. Only one "z".

serves me right for trusting Mike's spelling Laugh

I'm beginning to worry about Mike and MfC.

I can understand Mike may have slipped up for once (with complex aeronautical theorems on his mind)... but for MfC to repeat it?

(just pulling your legs guys...)  Smile

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by VTR on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:35 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:It's Hazlewood guys. Only one "z".

serves me right for trusting Mike's spelling Laugh

I'm beginning to worry about Mike and MfC.

I can understand Mike may have slipped up for once (with complex aeronautical theorems on his mind)... but for MfC to repeat it?

(just pulling your legs guys...)  Smile

I did think they were the same person for a bit! I want to see full on fisticuffs between the two one day. Come on guys, let's see a heated argument. Maybe MFC can write an article about the dreadful state of French junior cricket Laugh

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 12:05 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I think they lost half-an-hour due to bad light, which would probably translate to 7 overs (maybe 8 if we're being generous), so they would still have been 3 or 4 overs short. OK slightly better than day 1, but...

I did see your post yesterday guildford, and I agree. Unless I'm much mistaken the idea of bringing in the "curfew" for close of play is relatively new (OK originally they just played six hours, then it got made 90 overs, then finally the current situation). I believe it was actually brought in for the TV broadcasters: famouly Steve Waugh's Ashes hundred at the SCG in 2002-2003 (where he reached it off the last ball of the day) wasn't on TV because Channel 9 had gone to their regular program at the supposed time of close of play. I remember this as I was in Aus at the time and we listened on the radio!! (those were the days Very Happy).

It seems the shift has gone from making sure the paying spectator gets his money worth to making sure the TV companies aren't too inconvenienced (OK I exaggerate slightly but...). Having said that, and playing Devil's advocate somewhat, when it rains the paying spectator also doesn't get full value (you only get money back if there's a significant chunk of play missed, right?). But generally I agree with you, I don't think it's unreasonable that you should get what you pay for...

MfC - I don't know exactly when it came in but you're right that the ''curfew'' for close of play is relatively new. Certainly in the days when the West Indies not only had a Test side but the greatest Test side of all time, Very Happy their fast men might only average around 12 overs per hour. Six hours at that lick and you weren't seeing too many balls bowled in the day. Mind you, enough for most batsmen! Wink

The paying spectator will always have to take something of a chance on the conditions. I did say in my earlier post ''subject to the weather''. The one point I would make here is that umpires need to display common sense and also show consideration to those spectators. By way of example, Dickie Bird nowadays seems to have been re-invented as some type of national treasure but during his time wearing a white coat he was mighty frustrating and annoying, too often halting play in Tests with the apparent reasoning that the best players needed the best conditions to play in. Totally wrong and against the game's best interests.

I too share your cynicism concerning the TV companies. I illustrated this on the ''England take ODIs seriously'' thread with the background to why the 40 over domestic tournament in England was increased to 50 overs.


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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Mike Selig on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 12:29 pm

A few points...

Ashwin: I tend to agree with msp that so far I think he's justified his selection, with the caveat I haven't watched him bowl much. However his figures suggest decent control, and he's chipped in with a good wicket. Given the way the seamers have gone, any control is welcome right now for India. Look, I've got nothing against Karn Sharma, but he just didn't do all that much for me. On that pitch he should have been at least harder to score against in the second innings.

Over rates: you see I get the arguments about the heat etc. but simple fact is 15 overs per hour isn't (oughtn't be) that difficult to achieve. The side I coach do it as a matter of course, without rushing and with a young side so we often take time to set a field; plus at the end of the innings at least guys go from long-on to long-on in between overs (in fact in the last T20 we played we basically had the same guys at long-on/off and deep mid-wicket every over from the 7th over onwards). We tend to go 16 overs in the first couple of hours and this gives us a bit of leeway for the latter overs if we need it. At the end of an innings we are usually spot on 4 mins per over.

There is a reason for this, and like everything which is well done it isn't rocket science - we practice. For me it's tactical as much as anything: I personally feel that if you get through your overs quickly it puts more pressure on the batsman, and I stress to our guys that you want to be able to take the time to slow the game down when it helps you (usually a partnership, or a couple of big overs), but you can only do that if you've built up a "reserve" of time you can use up. So we practice it; we practice getting our spinners to get through overs quickly in the middle, and taking time (and knowing how much time we're entitled to take) when appropriate.

Also, most county sides seem to get through their overs fine in the matches I watch.

So yeah, I don't get it.

I'm not sure I'm a fan of playing out the overs come what may though - I feel that forcing a long 3rd session could be unfair, e.g. if a side bowls 45 overs in the first 2 sessions and in doing so they bowl the opposition out, then the other side, through no fault of their own, now have to bowl 45 overs in a session. That doesn't strike me as right either.

So I'm not sure what the solution is, but there is a problem for sure.

Hazlewood spelling and all
: sorry, I genuinely thought he had two "z"s... As for MfC I can assure you we are different people, although we have known each other for a while. We "play" (I use the term loosely as I don't really play at all anymore) at rival clubs as well. Plenty of fisticuffs in the past (both figuratively and the odd literal occasion..). ;-)

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 3:12 pm

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:Ashwin has already proved a better selection over Karn Sharma.

Really.....what is Ashwin's overseas records in tests.....AS A BOWLER
do you measure the lead spinner and one  in  4 pronged attack for his batting ?

If the bar is set so low for a specialist spinner....then believe me, Raina, Rohit will all qualify as spinners...and Sehwag with his off spinning skills can  make a comeback...because he may still be able to bat better than Ashwin at No. 7 or 8 Very Happy  
Ashwin's 35 was well made and valuable, but that's not the main reason I suggested he has justified his selection for this game. Said that, he's by far the better bat in a spin unit that hasn't done much in away conditions. On a helpful track, Karn Sharma was basically pretty poor, would have said awful had he not been playing his debut test. He gave away easy runs, going at close to 5 an over, and never looked like taking a wicket. His wickets came when the batting side was looking to push on. Ashwin in his first 11 overs, maintained excellent control. He looked dangerous in that spell. He really earned Watson's wicket. He did go for a few in the final hour, but as I wrote above, that was mostly down to a calculated attack from Smith rather than Ashwin bowling poorly.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 3:27 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2014-15/content/current/story/811595.html
A worthy read. I had long given up on Rohit Sharma. But the selectors and team management clearly haven't . I hope Rohit would justify all these unearned, unjustified confidence in him. I don't think he's made it in ODIs too, as he still struggles in away conditions. But yes, he'll perhaps score a smashing ton coming in at 400-4, or would be the lone man standing in an assured defeat and would thus stay in the side for another 10 tests without ever coming up when it matters.......
Mitchell Marsh is no Watson with the ball, that much is sure. Not sure Watson is the best bat to come in at 3 though.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by kingraf on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 3:34 pm

My thoughts of the day

Over rate - Must admit, when I skipper my local side, we can be quite glacial. No clue why either. I'm not as fussed about over rates as most. Just feel that as long as the game is moving along at a decent nip, then I'm happy. Worth noting of course, I pay the equivalent of £60 for my season tickets to both Wanderers and Centurion, so maybe that plays a role. Yesterday, despite the delayed start, the West Indies bowled 91 overs in the day. I'm not sure I've ever seen that in South Africa. Certainly not recently.

Mitchell Johnson - No clue how the events of the last two weeks have affected him, and I'm loathe to sound unsympathetic, but he needs to find a way to move on, if indeed it has. With all due respect to the man, he's never been a Dale Steyn type, pitching it up, swinging it late... His X-factor lies in his pace, and the fact that when on, he can intimidate the nest of batters. When he isn't threatening damage your ribs, he loses a lot of what makes Mitchell Johnson Mitchell Johnson. He isn't bowling badly, and he isn't as bad as he can be, but I think he's psychologically missing a bit.

Smith - He'll be pleased to have restricted the Indians so much. Fantastic effort by his lads. He also played well enough at #4. If he does well enough here at #4, I'd swap him and Clarke around, should Clarke return . Think Clarke hasn't been quite himself since he moved up. Can't imagine why, as he was coming early enough even when he was #5.
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

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