Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

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Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

After the first test witnessed India staying alive in the game and taking the fight to Australia before undoing it all in the final session, the 2nd test is getting underway at the Gabba tomorrow. Both sides will see a change in leadership. Australia's regular skipper Michael Clarke is injured and isout of the series and Steven Smith takes over, while Mahendra Singh Dhoni, the regular skipper returns and takes over from Virat Kohli. How would Smith the captain look like? Will Dhoni stick to his pragmatic guns or take a more aggressive approach with his weak bowling attack?
Besides Clarke, Ryon Harris, the best Australian seamer in the first test, is also out injured, while the struggling Peter Siddle is dropped. Shaun Marsh comes in for Clarke, and Mitchell Starc and Josh Hazlewood come into the bowling unit. For India, Ravichandran Ashwin is likely to come back in place of the unimpressive Karn Sharma.
The preview from cricinfo indicates that the track is expected to be rather different from one on which the first test was played. If spin had lots going for it on that track, this one is expected to be quicker and livelier for the seam bowlers.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:01 am

Following Dhawan's injury and Kohli apparently also taking a knock in practice, India have put out a statement complaining about the net facilities provided to them. I'm in no position to judge but do feel it's a shame India only chose to complain now and not when they had rattled up over 400 first dig.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:07 am

110/5 and drinks being taken. Going back a day or two to msp's comment about India needing to play the contest hour by hour, not the slightest doubt about who was the winner over the first 60 minutes.

That's it from me, folks. Suspect this match will be over when I wake up ....

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by kingraf on Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:14 am

Yes it was I, Guildford. I don't bet anymore, but betting on Mitchell taking wickets after scoring runs is a blue chip investment nearly on par with Ausssie bonds, or Ronaldo scoring.

Watching Mitchell raging in, I think it dawned on me that the ICC and stadium management haven't actually quite caught on to what puts bums on seats. It's pace, searing pace. I can't for all the marbles figure out why, as I'm pretty sure 95% of the stadia can't see a thing when a Johnson, Steyn type is bowling, but something about it really gets people in the stands. Quite strange, it's the complete inverse of the limited overs contest, but that's the reality of Test cricket. Human beings the sick animals like seeing a batsman resembling a jack in the box.
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Pal Joey on Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:01 am

Apparently Rohit Sharma stirred him up when he came into bat yesterday. Sharma asked him "how many wickets have you taken at this ground?"
A pretty silly thing to say. MJ then proceeded to take the bowling apart and now, this morning, he also got RS along with his bundle of wickets.
Thank you Rohit.

Guildford,
It seems a little over the top to make an official statement complaining about the facilities. The 'Gabba has excellent ones. Australia has had to practise in the same nets. As there have been massive downpours every night during this Test and the practice wickets have been covered up, surely they could have assessed the situation better and bowled accordingly. I understand that accidents can happen though - which is plain bad luck. It just comes across as an unnecessary whinge. They should have dealt with their concerns differently (keeping their minds on the current match situation) and now they have even bigger problems to cope with out there in the centre.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Pal Joey on Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:23 am

Anyway, Dharwan is back out there now as the lead reaches 100 runs.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:41 am

9 down.  The last rites... A couple of 6s for Yadav. Bubbly

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:06 am

Dhoni delivers results in 3 to 4 days.
in the last 4 years Dhoni's captaincy has been to test cricket, what poisonous watering is to a plant
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by kingraf on Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:12 am

That was such an innings from Dhawan. It's probably bought him a bit of time, and rightfully so. India, having been either even or winning every other session except the first two yesterday, are staring at the brink. Cruel game cricket, but you shouldn't be conceding nearly 200 runs to a tail from that position. They dismiss Australia for 300-ish first innings, then even with today's malfunction, Australia still have to chase 325+
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Pal Joey on Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:26 am

Messy finish but Australia get over the line to take a 2-0 lead in the series.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by alfie on Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:47 am

Good win for Australia clap

Not without some twists and turns...have actually been two pretty good Test Matches. India may - should - regret a couple of mad sessions in which they essentially lost the match despite at least matching Australia for much of the game.  Have to give credit to Australia though : when the game was in the balance they (principally Johnson and Smith ) stood up and took it...
 Even so the scorecard now reads 2-0 and will probably end up 4-0 ; yet India has been , in my book , closer than three years ago.  In Melbourne they must ditch Rohit and bat Dhoni at six , Ashwin at seven , bring in Bhuvi ...and hope.  Australia will hope the physios are on the ball...


Last edited by alfie on Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by Pal Joey on Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:15 pm

Have a feeling at least one of our bowlers from this Test will be rested for the Boxing Day Test and we'll see the return of Ryan Harris.
Maybe even Peter Siddle will be given another match on his home ground? Not sure if he is out of the selector's reckoning for good.

However, I would probably prefer to see someone like Harris (or even Faulkner) though alongside two of MJ, Hazelwood or Starc.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:23 pm

Very much as Alfie says.

I don't know enough about the India players and, particularly, the fringe players to say who should go out and come in but they certainly have to cut out the 'mad sessions'. All very well levelling or even edging the other sessions but a couple of mad ones and it's undoubtedly game over.

Smith and Johnson understandably taking the headlines but plenty of other good Australian individual performances. To name but two - Rogers with a couple of valuable knocks after a worrying run of form; and Lyon returning to the supporting cast after his leading man act at Adelaide but still chipping in more than usefully.

For India, Dhawan not able to prevent defeat but doing enough to keep him in the side - guess that's a double hit for Shanky! Wink

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:56 pm

Missed the last 2 days other than the first hour yesterday. Wasn't happy with the short ball tactics to Johnson, it did work against Haddin but not after that. Those who would have wanted aggression would have been pleased though....... And the bowlers kept bowling on both sides of the wickets though Dhoni kept the field up for most of that first hour at least. Then when they had an opportunity to restrict the Australian lead to a manageable range, Mitchell Starc and even Nathan Lyon smashed them all over the place. And when the openers put up a decent opening partnership and closed only 1 down yesterday with only 26 behind, they had a chance to make a comeback. Instead, the batting folding easily....... Kohli and Rahane couldn't do much, and Rohit failed to surprise. And the last chance was gone. A chase of 120 was never going to deny the Australians against this bowling attack in these conditions though they did manage to add a bit of drama.
Its not about Dhoni or Kohli or anyone else, we just don't have the bowling quality to win test matches away from home, and the batting isn't holding up and counterbalancing the shortcomings in the bowling unit.
Bhuvneshwar Kumar was originally expected to return from injury for the 3rd test, but Dhawal Kulkarni was called up as cover as the medical tteam wasn't quite sure about the deadline. Bhuvi is being missed both with the new ball and also the bat, hope he gets fit and back in the side soon.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:05 pm

msp....our horror show in tests is ONLY about Dhoni
and 3 problems with Dhoni in descending order of severity:

1) we amply discussed couple of days back.....favouritism rules not 1 or 2 but about 5 to 6 spots in the squad.
Rohit and Raina and Ashwin and jadeja should be nowhere in the squad nor should Kulkarni been flown in for Bhuvi.

2) Doesn't know how to attack, scheme / plan create wickets. the nuances of reading a batsman's technique, mind, pitch, game situation and combining all to work a wicket out with the bowler.
a pretty 2Dimensional captain...."attack" means mindlessly put 5 close-ins
defend ( the more used mode) spread 7 fielders on boundaries.

The subtle read of game, the nuances of working out a wicket, the intelligence of overall match / situation read is just not "sufficiently devloped" in Dhoni in games that span over 450 overs.
100 over is about what is mind can handle.

So somewhere (especially after 100overs) he will give away the game from winning positions in overseas conditions.
at home he has no problems.....as his brain is not much exercised, pretty 1 Dimensional....batsmen bash runs on low-turning pitches and pitch gets  the opponent batters to the spin.

3) and finally he doesn't care ( remorse , guilt , shame, moral responsibility do not exists for him.)
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:09 pm

KPF, it doesn't matter Dhoni or Kohli or anyone else so long as our bowling is 3rd rate for a top test side away from home. At home, on spinning tracks, we have a quality bowling lineup and we can win test matches. Replacing Dhoni with Kohli won't make Varun Aaron bowl at 150 KPH at an economy rate of 2.2. It won't make Ishant Sharma evolve into India's Glenn McGrath. It won't make Ashwin or Jadeja turn into the likes of Shane Warne or Murali or Swann. So long as the bowling is terrible away from home, we won't be winning too many tests. Here is a cricinfo article that reflects what I've been saying.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/812361.html

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:20 pm

Even after scoring 408 and 444, we lost. Even after scoring 315 in the 4th innings we lost. And in the 2 tests in the series, we have taken only 28 wickets.
The batting collapses have been horrendous. 87-6 was giving away a massive advantage, 16-4 in the middle order would often lead to losses. But if all the seamers go at over 4 an over and get close to 5 and 6 an over regularly, and if your spinners, mostly dependent on conditions are not able to take their game to the next level, then we won't win test matches.
During our best days in away tests, we of course had Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, and Sehwag and Gambhir as an effective enough opening combination. But we had Zaheer Khan, among the best ever seamers from the country leading the attack. Anil Kumble, after years of experience, had found ways to take wickets in non-subcontinental conditions. The likes of RP Singh and Sreesanth could make good use of helpful conditions without being hit around all over the park and play a handy supporting act to the 2 senior bowlers.
The attack doesn't have a leader now. If Ishant Sharma is the leader of your attack, then there is no need to say anything further.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:27 pm

msp83 wrote:KPF, it doesn't matter Dhoni or Kohli or anyone else so long as our bowling is 3rd rate for a top test side away from home.

Nope...we do not have a leader who knows NOT how to select the right resources and then how to best utilize the available bowling resources in tests. PERIOD

from the same structures the captains before hime ( Ganguly ; Kumble Dravid) got far better results overseas tests

and the captains after him....will fare better.....mark my words.

there are 3 problems with Dhoni and you can read them again Smile

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:00 pm

Under Dhoni India won in NZ that Ganguly never managed, they won a test in SA as well. Then there was Zaheer, and Harbhajan was still capable of producing moments of quality. And then there were the batsmen....... But after the 2011 WC, the batting lineup that was aging got exposed, Zaheer's body was no longer able to cope, Harbhajan lost his mojo completely, and we began losing big time.
Of course Dhoni's captaincy at times is a touch too negative, and he often let things drift. But the problems are much beyond Dhoni. Denial won't help, not one bit.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:17 pm

KP_fan wrote:
msp wrote:Who got selected to the test side under Ganguly having played 2 or 5 or even 10 FC games
?

Yuv, Kaif, Parthiv, Munaf, Zaheer, Tinu Yohanan, Harbahajn, Zaheer, and a few others that I cannot remember got in in their first season....
none of this ..." not ready"  B.S was served at us then
How many of them have had a successful test career? The likes of Parthiv, in my view never got a series 2nd chance, not just because Dhoni was well established, but their early start where there were issues with his technique created a lasting image that was hard to dislodge. By the way, Yuvraj played his first test in 2003, 6 years after he played his first first class game, and 3 years after his ODI debut. Kaif played his first test 3 seasons into his FC career.

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:44 am

Bhuvneshwar Kumar likely to be fit for the 3rd test, reports the Indian Express. Think Aaron should be the one to give way.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:39 am

msp83 wrote:Under Dhoni India won in NZ that Ganguly never managed, they won a test in SA as well. Then there was Zaheer, and Harbhajan was still capable of producing moments of quality. And then there were the batsmen....... But after the 2011 WC, the batting lineup that was aging got exposed, Zaheer's body was no longer able to cope, Harbhajan lost his mojo completely, and we began losing big time.
Of course Dhoni's captaincy at times is a touch too negative, and he often let things drift. But the problems are much beyond Dhoni. Denial won't help, not one bit.......

the. winning came when Dhoni was new and had Gary Kirsten .that he listened to
as he became independent, it was his personality ie. favouritism and lack of understanding / cleverness in tests that took over.
Ganguly found a bunch of new players and knew how to play and startegize in test cricket.

Dhoni cannot pick right players nor startegize.....that is the problem which " CSK Propoganda Machine " is trying to mask as " we do not have good enuf players"
BS
and a thin weak Mask.
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by freemo on Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:53 pm

very glad to see Joe Burns called up for the 3rd test, the guy is a class act, and deserves his chance..hope he bats at 3, and watson goes to 6..

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:03 pm

akshar Patel replaces Jadeja...who is reportedly injured.
well it is an injury of convenience.......if one reads the thread and my pitch on having Akshar Patel in place of jadeja / ashwin...it makes sense Smile
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by freemo on Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:02 pm

Akshar looks decent for limited overs cricket...but like with Karan not sure they're quite test standard...as yet..

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by kingraf on Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:07 pm

I see Yuvraj is in fine form. I love Yuvraj, how far down the list if possible is he, realistically? I mean he's still young, well youngish.
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:41 pm

freemo wrote:Akshar looks decent for limited overs cricket...but like with Karan not sure they're quite test standard...as yet..

he cannot do worse than Jadeja and Ashwin.
his last season was the first FC and wasn't a bad one...


A handy lower-order batsman, he was one of the consistent performers for Gujarat in the 2013-14 Ranji Trophy, finishing the season with 369 runs at an average of 46.12 and 29 wickets at 23.58.
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:49 pm

kingraf wrote:I see Yuvraj is in fine form. I love Yuvraj, how far down the list if possible is he, realistically? I mean he's still young, well youngish.

his reflexes to pace and his stamina are not the same after his cancer treatment.....
today he was dropped from the top 32 contracted cricketers.
he has been dropped by his IPL sides also
him time as an international cricketer is over I think
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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

Post by msp83 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:11 pm

The Yuvraj story is a fine fabulous one, so I don't rule out an international return, but it seems very unlikely at this stage....... A test return is almost impossible.......

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Re: Australia v India, 2nd Test, Brisbane

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