Another black kid shot by Police near Ferguson

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Post by Fernando on Wed 24 Dec 2014, 10:53 am

Apparently a kid named Antonio Martin has been shot on the forecourt of a petrol station which has sparked clashes with police being bombarded with rocks and bottles which led to teargas being thrown to try and disperse the crowd.

People suggesting that it was more then an hour after he was shot that an ambulance was called despite bleeding from being shot.

St Louis Police are claiming that a handgun was pointed at the police officer...

Well this one shouldn't take long to prove surely all Petrol Stations have a security camera Whistle

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Post by Ent on Wed 24 Dec 2014, 11:00 am

I know the police in America give it rough but has anyone seen the video of the officer being shot and executed after pulling a guy over for speeding? It's horrifying.

Too many guns in the USA, I'd have no hesitation shooting someone I'd stopped if I thought they had a weapon and worry about my career later.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Wed 24 Dec 2014, 11:08 am

I think this guy pointed a gun at him so fair enough. Just worry that more black kids are going to start carrying guns and start shooting police at first sight to prevent the police shooting them.

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Post by Guest on Wed 24 Dec 2014, 11:09 am

Ent wrote:I know the police in America give it rough but has anyone seen the video of the officer being shot and executed after pulling a guy over for speeding? It's horrifying.

Too many guns in the USA, I'd have no hesitation shooting someone I'd stopped if I thought they had a weapon and worry about my career later.
Keep doing that and you won't have much of a career to worry about, mate

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Post by Ent on Wed 24 Dec 2014, 11:18 am

ShahenshahG wrote:I think this guy pointed a gun at him so fair enough. Just worry that more black kids are going to start carrying guns and start shooting police at first sight to prevent the police shooting them.

Which will end up in more police shooting people they've stopped.

Better gun control is the answer.

Here's the video I was on about earlier

https://youtu.be/k8-ycSkoYfc

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Post by kingraf on Wed 24 Dec 2014, 11:23 am

I'd do the same, if I could use a fuc.kin gun. There's no honour in being shot dead by a cop. If cops are so afraid of their lives they can't harass black males without brandishing weapons, I'd carry a gun on me at all times. Better explain to a jury of twelve than be carried by six.

But Trussy says I'm just bitter, so don't take my post at face value.
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Post by Guest on Wed 24 Dec 2014, 11:32 am

kingraf wrote:I'd do the same, if I could use a fuc.kin gun. There's no honour in being shot dead by a cop. If cops are so afraid of their lives they can't harass black males without brandishing weapons, I'd carry a gun on me at all times. Better explain to a jury of twelve than be carried by six.

But Trussy says I'm just bitter, so don't take my post at face value.
There's no honour in being shot dead by anyone!

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Wed 24 Dec 2014, 4:49 pm

This kid pointed a gun at a cop?????

I am black and sympathise with the Eric Garner case. The Brown case I will need more convincing but his hands were up at some point.

As for this new recent case I just think he was very stupid. Don't poinht guns fake or real at the cops THEY WILL RAMBO YOUR A**

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 2:01 pm

"Armed Robber Shot by Police" would be a more accurate OP.

Don't want to be shot? Here's a hint, don't carry a concealed weapon whilst on your way to rob somewhere and then raise it at a police officer when told to desist.

Be a damn site more effective than whiting out your skin, that's for sure....

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 2:04 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:This kid pointed a gun at a cop?????

I am black and sympathise with the Eric Garner case. The Brown case I will need more convincing but his hands were up at some point.

As for this new recent case I just think he was very stupid. Don't poinht guns fake or real at the cops THEY WILL RAMBO YOUR A**

Totally agree.

The Eric Garner case was a genuine disgrace and wholly seperate from both this and the Brown case.

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Post by trottb on Wed 31 Dec 2014, 10:14 am

kingraf wrote:I'd do the same, if I could use a fuc.kin gun. There's no honour in being shot dead by a cop. If cops are so afraid of their lives they can't harass black males without brandishing weapons, I'd carry a gun on me at all times. Better explain to a jury of twelve than be carried by six.

But Trussy says I'm just bitter, so don't take my post at face value.

There's no honour in breaking laws either. What an absolutely ridiculous post.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 02 Jan 2015, 7:12 pm

trottb wrote:
kingraf wrote:I'd do the same, if I could use a fuc.kin gun. There's no honour in being shot dead by a cop. If cops are so afraid of their lives they can't harass black males without brandishing weapons, I'd carry a gun on me at all times. Better explain to a jury of twelve than be carried by six.

But Trussy says I'm just bitter, so don't take my post at face value.

There's no honour in breaking laws either. What an absolutely ridiculous post.

Thing is the people have no idea of the difference between being a Cop over here and in America.............Where guns are rife...where life is cheap in many places......Cops get hurt and killed...

S**t happens and it's terrible when it happens to you....

Racism is a much more sensitive issue back home and it's much more prevalent..............Unfortunately cases like this gives ammunition to naughty people with vested interests to score points........

Policing in the USA is a different ball game..

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Post by trottb on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 11:38 pm

I couldn't agree more Truss. I personally think that a lot of this cases could be easily prevented by the people that are hurt/killed (with a few exceptions obviously). I can't understand why in a country, like the USA, that has been shaken to its core on numerous occasions by gun crime, people go out of their way to attack/threaten the police.

Completely understand that some are innocent, but I imagine that it is the same across all races.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 05 Jan 2015, 3:21 pm

The disgraceful way some States throw away the key after they lock up Black criminals back home the kid probably felt he had nothing to lose..........

Still doesn't deflect away from the fact the police have an awful hard job to do.......

Unfortunately opportunities are at a minimum for Black kids back home.............Which leads to crime and gangs becoming an attractive proposition........

I don't see it changing anytime soon....

Only 40 odd years since the civil rights act..

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 7:58 am

Racism in the US police force is just a factor when you consider how corrupt some police actually are.


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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 9:21 am

That counts in all walks of life though OneTwo, think the biggest problem is education at the moment. As Trussy says it's only been 40 years since the civil rights act (did you know Martin Luther Kings grandaughter is still young Shocked )

We talk about it like it was 100's of years ago but it was as little as a generation and unfortunately some adults will still be of the opinion that they are a greater race etc. The US governement and business's need to make the decision to come down really really hard on people that are found to think and act that way.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 9:47 am

2 US police officers shot in the line of duty yesterday, simply responding to an innocuous call, barely gets a mention in the press......

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 1:03 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:2 US police officers shot in the line of duty yesterday, simply responding to an innocuous call, barely gets a mention in the press......

Fancy that..

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 1:11 pm

Unfortunately the shooting of 2 police officers is not as big a deal as the acceptance (by some quarters) of shooting unarmed black people.

And dare I say it, if the media try and come out and paint the tragedy then it may cause a lot more harm (with some people using it as an excuse to riot.)

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 1:18 pm

You are joking.......The way the media portray the death of a black man leads to better odds of rioting..

Forget the record as long as his arm............Show pictures instead of his angelic 14 year old smiling face and jump to conclusions on what happened rather than go by the facts..

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 1:28 pm

Yep. Always the same.

At least over here the media tend to then do a bit of digging and a few days after the family-released picture of a 14 yr old in his school pic is splashed around, all the myspace/twitter/facebook reality of the 16/18 yr old gun-toting wannaba ganster scumbag is shown for all to see.

Duggan being a prime example. Horrible person from a revolting family.

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:12 pm

That's part of the problem Truss, the way the media portrays it. I've said for years that parents would do better by coming out and saying when their kids had been little sh!ts BUT at the same time you cannot advocate the 2 killings that kicked it off again (the hands up thing and the kid near the petrol station.)

The US has to be careful at the minute as it's all a powder keg and there are people on both sides looking for any excuse to exploit it

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Post by kingraf on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:19 pm

Or alternatively officers getting shot in the line of duty isn't as big a news story as unarmed civilians getting shot? The one is a tragedy every cop knows is a possiblility, the other one simply shouldn't happen. Over here a cop dies a day on average, with only the most heinous making the news. Without exaggeration, stories of police brutality pretty much pop up daily. The majority of our police service is black. Should they also start leading off with soldiers who got shot patrolling? I'm not even American, and the two New Yorker policemen's murders basically blew up my Facebook timeline for a lot longer than it should have. Admittedly, some of this has to do with the new Facebook algorithm, and how it can't tell what I care about anymore, but a lot of it is because it was big news.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:27 pm

Derbymanc wrote:That's part of the problem Truss, the way the media portrays it. I've said for years that parents would do better by coming out and saying when their kids had been little sh!ts BUT at the same time you cannot advocate the 2 killings that kicked it off again (the hands up thing and the kid near the petrol station.)

The US has to be careful at the minute as it's all a powder keg and there are people on both sides looking for any excuse to exploit it

Not sure what you mean? You mean the shooting of the kid that'd just mugged a storeowner and decided to tackle an armed a police officer and the shooting of the armed robber that was robbing a store and raised his weapon at the police officer??

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Post by kingraf on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:35 pm

I assumed he meant Reynaldo whatsisname who was working in a store when it got mugged, and then got shot down by the cops when the made a run for it.
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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:36 pm

There's the geezer that was strangled after putting his hands up, and the kid that was shot in a residential area where the copper tried to say he'd had a gun, proved wrong, he shot the kid twice, turned out it was about 7 and one was in the back of the head. (Eric Garner I think was one,)

Both had apparently given up.

Eric Garner was one
http://time.com/3016326/eric-garner-video-police-chokehold-death/

and Michael Brown
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:39 pm

Derbymanc wrote:There's the geezer that was strangled after putting his hands up, and the kid that was shot in a residential area where the copper tried to say he'd had a gun, proved wrong, he shot the kid twice, turned out it was about 7 and one was in the back of the head. (Eric Garner I think was one,)

Both had apparently given up.

So the entire force is racist.......Which is basically what self interested black organisations in America are suggesting..

S**t happens..............and it's terrible when it happens to you..

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:41 pm

Chill a bit Trussy, I never said the entire force was racist. Some of the quite obviously are (like some over here will be.)

Are you stating that you think the Garner case and Brown case are fine then?

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:49 pm

Derbymanc wrote:There's the geezer that was strangled after putting his hands up, and the kid that was shot in a residential area where the copper tried to say he'd had a gun, proved wrong, he shot the kid twice, turned out it was about 7 and one was in the back of the head. (Eric Garner I think was one,)

Both had apparently given up.

Eric Garner was one
http://time.com/3016326/eric-garner-video-police-chokehold-death/

and Michael Brown
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting

Still not 100% clear wo/what you mean.

The armed robber (forget name, near Ferguson) can't have any arguments and it is pathetic to criticise police for shooting a criminal raising a gun at them. And, frankly, I can have little sympathy with Brown either (the original Ferguson lad) as he was a vile piece of work too that'd just mugged someone and, rather than just put his hands up and talk to the office, attacked him. Fecking eegit.

The only one I feel sorry for, that's genuinely innocenet and for whom the decision not to indict was a sickening disgrace, is Eric Garner. Garner being the one not armed, not threatening, not doing anything wrong and placed in a choke hold (outlawed in Britain) which the coroner ruled as the cause of his HOMICIDE.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:50 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Chill a bit Trussy, I never said the entire force was racist. Some of the quite obviously are (like some over here will be.)

Are you stating that you think the Garner case and Brown case are fine then?

Isolated incidents...............and don't lower the tone by asking that !!

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:54 pm

Is it isolated though Trussy and why such a massive swell of ill feeling by all colours and creeds if so.

Both cases involved no weapons Toppy, other than the one the police used. Doesn't matter what the person did, if they have effectively given themselves up then there's no excuse for lethal force.

As stated before, more education is needed when dealing with these issues as you don't want the lever swinging too far whereby the police are not really willing to deal with situations like this for fear of being branded.

Isolated or not Truss, they shouldn't be happening and we'd (quite rightly) decrying if anyone did something similar just because it was a police officer does not change that (especially garner) was way wrong.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 2:58 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Is it isolated though Trussy and why such a massive swell of ill feeling by all colours and creeds if so.

Both cases involved no weapons Toppy, other than the one the police used. Doesn't matter what the person did, if they have effectively given themselves up then there's no excuse for lethal force.


Ok, so you mean Brown & Garner then.

I've still no sympathy with Brown. This is the US, not the UK, totally different environment and there were very conflicting witness statements about the whole 'giving up' point.

Garner is the only innocent victim.

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 3:01 pm

I have limited sympathy bud, I 'm not sure how you can justify 12 shots to an unarmed suspect. At least most officers will have to wear body suits so people can start to see what really happens.


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Post by kingraf on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 3:16 pm

It's weird how Trussy's sh*t happens phrase never extends to the "White South Africans undergoing Genocide".

All good saying there's no conspiracy, and there isn't, I'd like to think, but the police give ample opportunity for that card to be played. Manhandling a store clerk and stealing some milk shouldn't end with your life being ended, it simply shouldn't. Neither does one fire six shots into someone, wait three seconds and then fire four more. "Sorry chief, had four more in the chamber and thought, what the heck".
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 3:28 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Is it isolated though Trussy and why such a massive swell of ill feeling by all colours and creeds if so.

Both cases involved no weapons Toppy, other than the one the police used. Doesn't matter what the person did, if they have effectively given themselves up then there's no excuse for lethal force.

As stated before, more education is needed when dealing with these issues as you don't want the lever swinging too far whereby the police are not really willing to deal with situations like this for fear of being branded.

Isolated or not Truss, they shouldn't be happening and we'd (quite rightly) decrying if anyone did something similar just because it was a police officer does not change that (especially garner) was way wrong.

It's a big Country................and many cops will know of team mates who have been put in hospital or worse.....

Every right to be edgy..

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 3:36 pm

being a nasty piece of work does not justify being shot by police when surrendering, sorry. Also what about that 12 year-old who got shot because he was waving a fake gun around. The police officer reportedly turned up and immediately shot him without even attempting to establish if the gun was real. Anyway...

I think it's clear the US does have a problem with policement shooting (mostly) black citizens, but I suspect it's not necessarily a racist thing (at least, not deliberately so), more a case of a very very difficult climate which leads to policement genuingely fearing for their life.

What can be done?

The answer is simple and obvious IMO: change the gun laws. If you create a safer environment for policement to work in, then surely they'll be less inclined to be trigger-happy?

OK this will never happen, so what's the alternative? Tricky, because much as I'd like to see policement made more accountable for their actions (and certainly in the case of the officer who choked the guy to death there should have been a prosecution at the very least, IMO), you also don't want the policeman to hesitate in that key moment when by pulling the trigger he could save innocent lives...

Nonetheless the first step to solving a problem is recognising the problem, so maybe that's where they should start.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 3:40 pm

People can also stay within the law.............

Can't change the gun laws because it's an American's second amendment right to bear arms as stipulated by our founding fathers.............Part of the constitution..

and as most Southern Democrats are more right wing than Northern republicans it would be political suicide to try !!

I'm all for gun control but I'm a realist.

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Post by kingraf on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 3:49 pm

It really is incredible how many people who are completely opposed to something like the death penalty think stealing some milk justifies your body being lit up like a holiday once you say it could have been racial.

With gun control, I agree with Trussy, there isn't a way on earth you're gonna outlaw guns, but better control is needed. I'm in the Chris Rock school of thought in that you shouldn't be able to buy a high powered gun while buying some gum.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 3:59 pm

kingraf wrote:It really is incredible how many people who are completely opposed to something like the death penalty think stealing some milk justifies your body being lit up like a holiday once you say it could have been racial.

Who stole milk?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:01 pm

I prefer lemon in my tea.....So i'd give him life instead !!

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Post by kingraf on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:01 pm

Obviously a representation of the fact that what Michael Brown did was petty theft.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:01 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:being a nasty piece of work does not justify being shot by police when surrendering, sorry. Also what about that 12 year-old who got shot because he was waving a fake gun around. The police officer reportedly turned up and immediately shot him without even attempting to establish if the gun was real. Anyway...


Who was shot when surrendering? Brown supporters said he was, but a very different picture was painted for the Grand Jury.

Personally I do think Yank police officers are way too trigger happy, but I think a lot of the cases quote by some are done so to incite racial divisions not actually achieve anything positive.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:04 pm

I wouldn't want to be a cop in New york..

As for them being racist ...Who can blame them.....When your fellow officers end up in hospital or worse......It affects your outlook on life.


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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:04 pm

kingraf wrote:Obviously a representation of the fact that what Michael Brown did was petty theft.

A misrepresentation more like. Suggestive of someone stealing basic essentials as they're to hard up to buy for themselves/trying to feed their family/other liberal excuse.

Reality is the kid was a thief and a c*nt. Did he deserve do die for that? No. Did his stupidity and general c*ntishness lead to his death? Yes.

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Post by kingraf on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:05 pm

So everybody that steals some milk and eggs shouldn't get community service but instead death by a one man firing squad?
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:06 pm

kingraf wrote:So everybody that steals some milk and eggs shouldn't get community service but instead death by a one man firing squad?

Not semi skimmed or skimmed milk...Though.

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Post by kingraf on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:08 pm

Can't drink skimmed milk. It's too watery, not creamy enough
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Post by ShahenshahG on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:08 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:being a nasty piece of work does not justify being shot by police when surrendering, sorry. Also what about that 12 year-old who got shot because he was waving a fake gun around. The police officer reportedly turned up and immediately shot him without even attempting to establish if the gun was real. Anyway...


Who was shot when surrendering? Brown supporters said he was, but a very different picture was painted for the Grand Jury.

Personally I do think Yank police officers are way too trigger happy, but I think a lot of the cases quote by some are done so to incite racial divisions not actually achieve anything positive.

Felt as much as you did that he brought it on himself. That said a juror is challenging his non disclosure agreement so will wait to see if they fiddled with the evidence or limited which evidence was shown before I assume again.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:08 pm

The trouble is, police do shoot a disproportionately large number of black people. Add to that that a disproportionately large number of policemen are white, and you can understand where the allegations of racism come from.

I just don't like seeing things like "I have little sympathy for him, because he's a scumbag", because to me it's dangerously too close to saying "he deserved to be shot, because he's a scumbag", which is obviously unacceptable. Smearing the victim is also a tactic that's used by the police in some cases and certain media "news" outlets, which really makes me angry.

Sure, guy was a thief, not a particularly nice bloke, whatever. Doesn't mean he deserved to be choked to death/shot/killed in any way, does it?

Truss and raf, you're both right, of course, that guns won't be banned. They should be, though. Would solve a lot of problems. Go back a few centuries and people had the "right" to own slaves, doesn't mean it's a good idea...

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Jan 2015, 4:09 pm

kingraf wrote:So everybody that steals some milk and eggs shouldn't get community service but instead death by a one man firing squad?

Did I say he deserved to die?

No, quite specifically not. You're just reading what you want to read because you've an Az-esque chip on your shoulder.

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