Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

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Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by KP_fan on Sun 11 Jan 2015, 6:11 pm

I like triangulars  that Aus hosts...there is a continuity and history with these.

and Just before the world cup...the 3 big brothers get the prime practise slot in the world cup conditions.....
it's a shame Aus found  no space for Harris and Lyon in the world cup squad...and India couldn't accommodate Vijay.( see story in next post)

to me in the triangular Aus are sure to make the finals and Ind inspite of their excellent overall record are about even with Eng...
better batting than Eng but the spinners that Ind relies so much on are not as much effective
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by KP_fan on Sun 11 Jan 2015, 6:11 pm

World Cup 2015 - Final Squads (Full Coverage)
'Dhoni had assured Vijay of World Cup berth'
Thu, Jan 08 2015 , by Dwaipayan Datta
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Murali Vijay missed out on a World Cup berth as the selectors preferred allrounder Stuart Binny. © TNN
Murali Vijay's body language betrayed disappointment at the Sydney Cricket Ground on Wednesday. He had every right to feel disappointed after being ignored for the World Cup squad that was picked on Tuesday. One understands that Vijay was skipper MS Dhoni's choice as one of the back-up batsmen but the selectors were absolutely adamant on Stuart Binny's inclusion.

A source close to Vijay told TOI that the batsman was told by Dhoni during the course of the ongoing series that he would be part of the team for the World Cup. "That's why he was extremely upbeat for the last month. The disappointment is understandable," the source said.

Vijay has scored 402 runs in four matches so far at an average of 54.32 and the captain did his best to have the opener in the squad as a back-up for Shikhar Dhawan and Rohit Sharma. Coach Duncan Fletcher, too, had put in a word for Vijay but the selectors felt that allrounder Binny would be more suitable than an extra batsman and Vijay had to miss out.

While the skipper had his way on Ravindra Jadeja and Dhawan, Mohit Sharma is another bowler who was not given the nod despite the skipper's preference. "Dhoni had prepared Mohit with the World Cup in mind. An injury sometime back didn't go in his favour, but he was still fit and the captain would have liked to have him in the team," the source added.
http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/67906/dhoni-had-assured-vijay-of-world-cup-berth
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sun 11 Jan 2015, 7:23 pm

so, assuming that article is correct: captain and coach want Vijay in the squad, yet somehow he isn't selected? Seems to me to be bordering on lunacy TBH... I seem to remember reading Alec Stewart's autobiography that England had a similar situation with Chris Lewis in 99: both Stewart and the coach (Lloyd?) wanted Lewis in the squad as they believed him to be a potential match-winner, but the selectors said they couldn't have him. England of course rather famously crashed out in the first round...

This latest episode seems to confirm what Mike and I have been saying recently: Fletcher just doesn't seem to have any input whatsoever on this Indian team...

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by JDizzle on Sun 11 Jan 2015, 8:35 pm

England are playing their first warm up game tonight and it looks like the top 7 will be Bell, Moeen, Taylor, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Bopara which shows us where they are likely to go, at least in the tri-series. I though they might take a punt and play Hales over Bell, at least for the first games of the tri-series. Would have been the aggressive option, maybe not the right one though I admit.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by KP_fan on Sun 11 Jan 2015, 9:38 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:so, assuming that article is correct: captain and coach want Vijay in the squad, yet somehow he isn't selected? Seems to me to be bordering on lunacy TBH... I seem to remember reading Alec Stewart's autobiography that England had a similar situation with Chris Lewis in 99: both Stewart and the coach (Lloyd?) wanted Lewis in the squad as they believed him to be a potential match-winner, but the selectors said they couldn't have him. England of course rather famously crashed out in the first round...

This latest episode seems to confirm what Mike and I have been saying recently: Fletcher just doesn't seem to have any input whatsoever on this Indian team...

Fletcher runs catching practice.....and a yes man to Dhoni....that he has no decision making authority for a long time is known...

Dhoni's case is different......he is being checked for the abuse of power...he had gotten in the past what he wanted including getting some selectors fired.

Now he is denied because his influence is low, his godfather Srini is a bit shaky under the supreme court case
and with no outside influences to help.....his demands are being crushed because of his reputation of wanting too many favorites.
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by kingraf on Sun 11 Jan 2015, 9:57 pm

How many coaches have selection influence in their teams though? Lehmann seems to, at least when Smith is captain, carry some weight. But that has much to do with the uniqueness of the situation. When Mickey Arthur was still coach... he got the boot because Smith basically grew tired of him. I tend to agree with the maxim you only need a coach to get to the cricket ground (for national players)
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by VTR on Mon 12 Jan 2015, 8:31 am

England convincingly win their warm up match but not sure what can be read into it as it sounds like a very weak opponent, and also was one of those matches where more than 11 can play

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by KP_fan on Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:29 am

Eng have their first real game on 15th and that's a couple of days and that's when we can start reading into where they stand.

I do rate Eng's chances quite good at par with India.....under Morgan....only they need to play Moeen ali in middle order.
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by VTR on Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:59 am

KP_fan wrote:
I do rate Eng's chances quite good at par with India.....under Morgan....only they need to play Moeen ali in middle order.

I think England could be dangerous but inconsistent. The batting does have potential, and the bowling with Broad and Anderson back will be quite decent.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by msp83 on Mon 12 Jan 2015, 4:26 pm

Stuart Broad thinks Pietersen sacking was unnecessary!.
Interesting!!.
Why is Broad talking about it now though?

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by msp83 on Mon 12 Jan 2015, 4:28 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/carlton-mid-triangular-series-2015/content/current/story/819881.html

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by msp83 on Mon 12 Jan 2015, 4:55 pm

Would be interesting to see the Indian batting lineups as well. Will it be Rohit Sharma or Ajinkya Rahane who would be opening along with Shikhar Dhawan? Or will it be Sharma and Rahane at the top and Shikhar out? Dhawan struggled alright in the test series, but then so did Sharma. Shikhar has been very consistent at the top in ODI games, much more so than Rohit. Rahane was finding greater consistency in ODIs at the top of the order, and unlike flat track bully Rohit, can play in all conditions.
I would have Dhawan and Rahane opening, with Kohli and Sharma at 3 and 4. Raina at 5 and Dhoni at 6. Akshar, Ashwin, Kumar, Shami and Yadav/Ishant to constitute the bowling unit. Rayudu to be the first reserve in the batting unit, with Sharma and Raina being the most vulnerable batters.
Will be a huge test for young Akshar, his first overseas assignment. And he'll be stepping in for Ravindra Jadeja, India's best ODI bowler for the last year and a half. Hope Akshar can make this opportunity count, and thus provide more options for the skipper.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by chrisss on Wed 14 Jan 2015, 12:31 pm

In hopefully a sign of what's to come, Bell scored 187 as England made 391/6 in the warm up game against the Prime Minister's XI. Glenn Maxwell scored 136 as the PM XI made 331 in response.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/carlton-mid-triangular-series-2015/engine/match/754747.html

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by VTR on Wed 14 Jan 2015, 1:56 pm

Sounds like an excellent innings, lets see if he can play an innings of substance in an actual ODI as that has often been his failing

Also desparately need Buttler and Morgan to find some form in the triangular series

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by JDizzle on Wed 14 Jan 2015, 3:11 pm

Haven't seen any of the game, but it is also good to see Moeen get some runs against bowlers I know to be quick and good in Cummins and Behrendoff. As the only issue against him was that it was thought that he could have some trouble against the shorter ball on the bouncies pitches in Aus, with the caveat that I have no idea what the pitch was like (apart from clearly a road). Great to see Maxwell get a ton too, he's had a tough time mentally recently by his own admission, so it is great to see him bouncing back.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 15 Jan 2015, 10:34 am

msp83 wrote:Stuart Broad thinks Pietersen sacking was unnecessary!.
Interesting!!.
Why is Broad talking about it now though?

He only thinks it unneccesary as it gave Pietersen attention. If instead they had insisted all players had to go back to their counties and score runs, take wickets following the Ashes tour - then Pietersen could have been left out quietly on form grounds.

Pietersen thinks he is in the form of his life and should be in the WC team - performances over the last 12 months state the opposite.


As to the warm ups - Bell scoring runs so heavily and quickly is probably not good. He is unlikely to manage the same against a decent bowling attack.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by KP_fan on Thu 15 Jan 2015, 2:58 pm

'that they conceded 331 runs to a primeminister's 11 should be the takeaway ......and a worrying one
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 3:22 am

Wow... golden duck for Bell. Amazing first ball from Starc.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 3:24 am

Jeezzz... another one. Taylor gone as well.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by kingraf on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 4:29 am

Well, at least there's enough time to find a scapegoat who's name doesn't rhyme with book... I'm putting short odds on it being poor Hales
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 4:37 am

Moring raf. You're up early. What's up? Can't sleep?  Wink

I was about to post "things are stabilising for England"... but then I probably would have copped some flak when the others woke up.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by kingraf on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 4:42 am

Morning LD, well afternoon most likely - Nah, slept fine, but I'm back in at work. Just catching a bit of the cricket before I leave.
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by kingraf on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 4:45 am

Jeez 5/76.... Captain Morgan seems semi decent at this batting thing again.
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 4:52 am

I hope they can put some sort of respectable score on the board. If Morgan can hang in there and if he gets some support... then they might be able to get around 200 runs or more. Hard ask I know but it would be good if they could get through the 50 overs.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by kingraf on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 5:07 am

I would say, that a decent batting team with wickets in hand, could still reach about 250 on a good pitch even with that slow start.
Its unfortunate then, that

- This isn't a particularly good English batting team
-They don't have wickets in hand.
- the pitch is misbehaving a touch.

Mitchell Starc has been quite impressive today. Think they are realistically looking 180-200
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 7:46 am

Love you eoin
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by KP_fan on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 9:34 am

Well......i just looked at the score-card....and then analyed it a bit based of mechanisms of dismissals.....and it appears like Eng were hit by Starc at the start and never recovered.

From what we saw of Starc towards the end of the test series.....he was beginning to look good.

He seems the "diesel engine" variety of pace bowler...the more he plays continuously, the more efficiency he shows.

what's unpardonable for Eng is with batting down to No-10 ( Broad) they could not recover to post a 260ish total....inpsite of a Morgan gem. No other team has a depth in batting to match Eng's.

Faulkner and Doherty got their 20 overs for 80odd and 4 wickets.......implies no support for Morgan. Those 20 overs should have been milked for 20 to 40 runs more.
Not that that would have guaranteed a win....but would have surely made the game more competitive.

Looks like Eng will start with conceding a bonus point....and Morgan's difficult job gets cut out very clearly


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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by KP_fan on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 9:39 am

I have been saying this....and others have also observed....Moeen opening is not a good idea against good pace bowling and on Aussie pitches......
Only in the subcontinent he can get away stand, hit throuhg the line and deliver style......pumped up on adrenalin.

Eng need to move one of the proper batsman to open....i.e either Taylor or Root....and drop Moeen to come after Bopara
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Stella on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 9:44 am

KP_fan wrote:I have been saying this....and others have also observed....Moeen opening is not a good idea against good pace bowling and on Aussie pitches......
Only in the subcontinent he can get away stand, hit throuhg the line and deliver style......pumped up on adrenalin.

Eng need to move one of the proper batsman to open....i.e either Taylor or Root....and drop Moeen to come after Bopara

After one bad match, the knives are out. Ali's been a revelation, and just what we need from an opener. He will be inconsistent, given the way the plays, but he will come off now and again.
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 9:53 am

Hi Raf and all - what do you think of the apparently modern way of taking the ball in front of the stumps for a run out?

Not something I'm keen on - the time gained in getting the ball momentarily earlier seems to be more than used up in (half) turning to get the ball onto the stumps. Furthermore, it makes hitting the stumps more difficult - as just shown by Finn's failure.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 9:59 am

It was either a complete panic and mess up or he had badly misjudged where the stumps were.
If you are going to take the ball in front you have to know exactly where the stumps are in relation to the point of capture. Either way, poor work.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 10:02 am

Warner knew has was a goner. He looked like guilt personified! How did the umpire miss that?

Sorry, I meant Bailey.


Last edited by The Loaded Dog on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correction)

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by VTR on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 10:15 am

Whatever happens today, removing Cook was the right decision. It will not solve all our problems overnight, but the new captain has scored an excellent century today.

We need to give the new blend of players a bit of time, all of them have performed recently either in SL or the warm-up games.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Stella on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 10:17 am

guildfordbat wrote:Hi Raf and all - what do you think of the apparently modern way of taking the ball in front of the stumps for a run out?

Not something I'm keen on - the time gained in getting the ball momentarily earlier seems to be more than used up in (half) turning to get the ball onto the stumps. Furthermore, it makes hitting the stumps more difficult - as just shown by Finn's failure.

It's fine of the ball is going to miss of course. I'm not fussed on either way, tbh.
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Duty281 on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 10:34 am

Well done England.

We probably have only one, perhaps two at a push, good ODI games in us for the next couple of months; we don't want to waste them on this tri-nations lark do we? #worldcupglory laughing

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 10:38 am

Don't be too hard on them, duty. It was a horrific start. If a few of the top order had got going it wouldn't have been such a bad result. I think England are better chasing too so if they can contain the opposition - it mightn't be so disappointing. Hang in there, mate!

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by kingraf on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 11:05 am

Hey Guildford. I'm not really much of a fielding coach, and I do think it should be a specialised field, so I don't wanna stand on any toes. But I would say I'm not really overly bothered by it. I think the main thing is, if you have a wicket keeper who is very adept at it, it increases the probabilities of a hit which can affect a run out.
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by KP_fan on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 11:25 am

well Bailey's slowness almost lost Aus the bonus point...There is a fraility in Aus's batting in a chase...too many "useful" players but not solid ones...especially when Warner fails early

the less for Eng is if they had stretched themselves to 265+ which they should always get give their depth in batting...they will stretch most sides.
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by VTR on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 11:30 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:Don't be too hard on them, duty. It was a horrific start. If a few of the top order had got going it wouldn't have been such a bad result. I think England are better chasing too so if they can contain the opposition - it mightn't be so disappointing. Hang in there, mate!

We have always been pretty much incapable of setting a total and defending it. I can't remember too many decent wins that were achieved that way. Massive outsiders for the WC, but we do have a top 7 full of dangerous players now if (and its a big if!) they fire

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 11:33 am

KP_fan wrote: ...There is a fraility in Aus's batting in a chase...too many "useful" players but not solid ones...


At least Australia's ''useful'' players are useful unlike Bopara. Another ''nothing'' performance today.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by kingraf on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 11:35 am

The West indies have "useful" players, Australia have decent bats
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 11:46 am

kingraf wrote:Hey Guildford. I'm not really much of a fielding coach, and I do think it should be a specialised field, so I don't wanna stand on any toes. But I would say I'm not really overly bothered by it. I think the main thing is, if you have a wicket keeper who is very adept at it, it increases the probabilities of a hit which can affect a run out.

Thanks, Raf. And LD and Stella for earlier input.

I accept taking the ball in front of the stumps can speed up the process and thus increase the chances of a run out. However, unless it's being done by a specialist who has practised this considerably, I feel it'll more likely end up being a mess as earlier today with Finn. I certainly wouldn't begin with it as being the norm.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 12:15 pm

Not really sure why Ali is getting stick, he's being employed as a pinch hitter, so by definition he's gonna be feast or famine.
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Mike Selig on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 2:34 pm

A few thoughts:

I was (am still am) one who is unsure of Moeen's ability to open the batting in international ODIs as of now. However England have decided he is their man, and he did OK in Sri Lanka. As such the spot is his at least for a while longer, and England have Hales in reserve. Besides which he scored a quick 20odd today - of course not setting the world alight, but he did better than any of the other top order batsmen for England, and outscored two of the Australian top 3 as well.

It seems England were blown away by Starc and co early on. That happens, and in ODI cricket it is tough, really tough, to recover from. As such I am not sure that this performance is as bad from an England perspective as some of the ones in Sri Lanka. Yes you could argue had Buttler kicked on, had the lower order done a bit more etc. but realistically 235 was a decent effort. From there, it was always a case that they would have to do to the Australian line-up what happened to them: any kind of score for Warner, Watson, Finch or Smith and that was that.

Australia I think have a clear template: they will be aggressive up front and then try and contain more in the middle-overs, with the odd burst from one of the quickies maybe. It will be interesting to see who makes way for Mitch Johnson, and how they fare if they don't pick up early wickets.

Regarding the taking of the ball in front of the stumps: I am TBH surprised this is still a debate. It is decidedly quicker (by between 2 and 5 TV frames), cuts down the angle, and is not especially hard to do when coached and done properly. When it goes wrong, as with most things, it is down to poor execution/technique rather than a poor idea. Our young keepers can all do it (and all do), and frankly any coach of a young keeper who isn't teaching him to take the ball in front of the stumps is doing his charge a massive disservice. When done properly there is no "turn" to get the ball onto the stumps, rather absorbing the ball and then sweeping past your standing leg.

England in particular have gotten a number of run-outs over the years thanks to this technique. Other sides who don't use it have in my humble opinion missed out on a few. I can only remember 2 muck-ups by England players in recent years, and just as many by other teams. When Saha missed the easy run-out in the latest Ind-Aus test he was taking the ball in the old-fashioned way. Poor technique, not poor method.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by msp83 on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 3:49 pm

Fine knocks from Morgan and Warner, but England's top order was a massive let down and that did them in in the end. Pretty good from Starc, at this stage of his career, he's a much better limited overs bowler than a test one, the lad is lethal when he gets it right.......

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Mat on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 7:56 pm

KP_fan wrote:I have been saying this....and others have also observed....Moeen opening is not a good idea against good pace bowling and on Aussie pitches......
Only in the subcontinent he can get away stand, hit throuhg the line and deliver style......pumped up on adrenalin.

Eng need to move one of the proper batsman to open....i.e either Taylor or Root....and drop Moeen to come after Bopara

I'm sorry but I don't see why. For one, Root was the form player in Sri Lanka at Number 4, why move him up the order? Then between Taylor and Moeen, one has spent their entire List A career as an opener or number 3, where as Taylor has to my knowledge never opened in List A cricket. Add to that England were widely criticised for fielding two "proper" batsman to open in ODI cricket in Cook and Bell.


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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by Gerry SA on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 9:14 pm

Move Joe Root up the order? Didn't he move down the order after being humiliated during England's tour of Australia last winter? As far as I remember, he was a walking wicket and most times looked scared.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by kingraf on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 9:21 pm

I think Ali can come in for some criticism with the way he got out. He may be up the order as a pinch hitter, but he's a proper batsman, and as such you expect some grey matter which can grasp the gravitas of being 33/4. Certainly hope a guy like Quinton de Kock doesn't play his "natural" game in a similar situation, just because he was told thats his job. Seems a rather wrong way of going about it. No one is asking him to become Jacques Kallis, but if your line up doesn't realise that 33-4 isn't the time to be playing like a million dollars. well, this world cup might top 2011 for Spectacular England failures
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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by msp83 on Sat 17 Jan 2015, 3:13 pm

Think England got Ali to open not because they wanted a pinch hitter who goes for it every ball but because they wanted greater positivity up front. So Ali the pinch hitter doesn't work as an excuse really. Don't think the likes of Warner, Dilshan, de Kock, Dhawan opens because they are pinch hitters. But they are batsmen capable of attacking the new ball unlike the conventional, on their peak 75 ball 50 and then get out or usually 25 of 45 types that England regularly send up the order.
Ali's technique has issues. But I think he's the best option they have at the moment.

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Re: Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

Post by msp83 on Sun 18 Jan 2015, 5:04 am

India have lost Dhawan, Kohli and Rahane for not much. Rohit Sharma and Suresh Raina trying to get the innings back on track, India 104-3 after 22.

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