Greatest ODI Innings

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Greatest ODI Innings

Post by Stella on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 9:03 am

Bob Willis called yesterday's unbelievable innings from AB, the greatest ODI innings ever. It was pure mad entertainment from a great batsman, but was it really the best ever? Bob saying it doesn't mean it is, I know that, it just gave me an idea for a thread, which may have been done before.

Comparing era's is fun, though ultimately impossible, but here's a few that I remember.

Viv's 189no vs England - 1984. Batted patiently until last man Holding came in. Brutal from the King.

Ponting's 140no in the world cup final in 2003. Had a nice platform set from the openers, and he made the most of it. It was astonishing at the time, even though It was only 12 years ago. Knocks like that come along more often these days, but this was the world cup final.

Gibbs' 175 at the Wanderers. After Australia had posted a then world record score, thanks mainly to Ponting, Gibbs came in and upstaged the Tasmanian. Mick Lewis will not forget this game.

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by VTR on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 9:40 am

Yesterday I would doubt should make the top 10. I'd be looking for a bit more in terms of context and impact on the match (didn't he come in at 250-2?)

Gilchrist in the 2007 World Cup final comes immediately to mind, simply blew away the opposition with an incredible innings.

And Afridi's fastest ODI ton at the age of 16 on debut!

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by kingraf on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 10:12 am

Technically... it'd be the best innings. The invention, the artistry. I said it on the other thread, but the technical ability required to play a pick drive behind square from leg stump is for me the limits of ability. It has no peer from that perspective. But 250/1, on a flat enough deck against a rather poor bowling attack. It doesn't rate.
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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by Biltong on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 10:24 am

How does one measure great? Or for that matter greatest?

I think we must be careful of trying to categorise every remarkable effort by a sportsman into a box.

It was a very enjoyable and unforgettable innings, I think that should suffice.
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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by VTR on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 10:48 am

Biltong wrote:How does one measure great? Or for that matter greatest?

I think we must be careful of trying to categorise every remarkable effort by a sportsman into a box.

It was a very enjoyable and unforgettable innings, I think that should suffice.

I think Stella's point is the opposite - that it probably wasn't the greatest. It's the best innings by a statistical measure, but the discussion is around what was the best innings and why. Someone could choose yesterday's innings of course!

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by KP_fan on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 1:28 pm

greatest in my view are the ones played on big stage which in ODIs is the world cup, a few odd champion trophies, the B&H cup of 1985......some of the multinational tournaments in sharjah in 80s.

and i can remember the following

1) steve waugh's only odi 100 in a semifianl vs SA.....'son you dropped the cup' fame inning

2)Inzimam's 80 odd vs NZ in the semi final of 93 world cup vs NZ

3) Kapil way ahead of his time 175 in 83 world cup saved Ind the elimination

4) Miandad's last ball 6 in his unbeaten 100 to win the Australasia cup final v India

5) Cairns 100 to win the CT final vs India

6) D'Silva's 90 odd to chase down the score in world cup final vs Aus

7) dave houghton's 130 odd in 87 world cup that nearly chased down a tall score vs NZ




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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by kingraf on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 2:19 pm

It's worth remembering that Viv... and many others have before have faced seriously rank bowling, and none of them have come close to matching this knock. Also worth noting that every four years cricket's Galácticos get a chance to fill their boots against minnows and none of matched this. so while the innings, may not have carried the importance needed for it to rank as truly great, to pretend its a mere statistical quirk, or interesting anomaly would be a shame. If indeed it does ever get bettered (at Tier I level), it will take an almighty effort.

As for my greatest knock, I think Dhoni's perfectly timed chase to win the world cup final is the greatest knock I've ever seen. If you look at the great world cup final knocks, many of them come in the first innings, and there's a reason for that. To time, and pace an innings so well, under so much pressure... absolute genius.
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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by VTR on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 2:41 pm

I think Viv would be capable if playing now. He would love the heavier bat weights and tiny boundaries. Remember he played in an era long before T20 where 250 was a very good score in an ODI.

I am pleased though that the record is at least against a side that are Tier 1 and by a batsman who would be recognised as a great player. It would be a shame if someone like Ravi Bopara goes and scores a 25 ball hundred against a Tier 2 side in the World Cup and that is the new record.

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by kingraf on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 3:33 pm

A player is a product of their era though. He scored at roughly the same strike rate as Amla does now. Bats haven't suddenly improved by the power of 10, its an old hat, similar to Jeff Thomson bowling at 180km/h. You don't hit the sixes guys like him and Beefy hit without serious willow. As for T20, well, I've never seen anyone claim AB or any modern batter would average 60 in Tests in the 80s if it wasn't for T20s, I'm not sure why everyone takes it gospel that anyone who can hit a long mile will automatically be good at the modern abbreviated game... Its irrelevant though, because that's hypothetical talk, while Ab played a knock of the highest quality in the flesh.

I don't mind who breaks a record, although admittedly having a great player do it does add some sheen. If Kevin O'brien broke the record I'd be happy for him, even if I find him a little agricultural. For me, AB's knock wasn't just amazing in its pace, but there was genuine artistry, and creativity.
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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by VTR on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 4:21 pm

I think T20 is huge in all of this. Players have now had ten years to develop their games in what I would say is a relatively risk free environment. By that I mean at the top level there is a licence to play shots that would be deemed irresponsible in others formats. Over time this builds to a collective knowledge and new shots that once had us looking on in awe become common e.g. the ramp shot and switch hits

This has expanded the boundaries of what is possible, which has started to impact the ODI game with larger scores becoming the norm. I think its only a matter of time before ABs record is broken, Chris Gayle has a 30 ball hundred in the IPL and a long standing record has just fallen twice in the last year.

An interesting debate anyway

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 5:17 pm

I do agree with VTR about context and impact.

In that regard, I'll flag Clive Lloyd's innings from the first World Cup Final, held in '75. As captain, he came to the crease with the West Indies close to facing down the barrel at 50/3 against the Australian pace and swing of Lillee, Thommo, Gilmour and Walker. Ably supported by the selfless and resolute Kanhai, Lloyd at first dug in to safeguard the 4th wicket and then took the attack to the bowlers with increasing acceleration. Lloyd and Kanhai had shared a partnership of 149 when the skipper was out, his contribution being 102 off 85 balls. A strike rate of 120, pretty remarkable for the time when ODIs were of 60 overs per side. The Windies narrowly won this final, something which would have been totally beyond them without Lloyd's innings.

I don't claim this was the greatest ever ODI innings but it was certainly memorable (there are so many ODIs nowadays that a lot wash over me) and deserves a mention.

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 5:28 pm

Ha funnily enough I was going to mention Lloyd's knock guildford. Would certainly be close to number 1 in terms of context, importance, and not as if it was made against the worst attack of all time either.

I think comparing across eras is pretty much impossible, as the game has changed a fair bit. Things like bat technology but also understanding the method of hitting a 6, video-analysis of bowlers etc. have all played a part. VTR hints at the psychological aspect of hard hitting as well: it is always surprising to me (although it shouldn't be) how much easier everything becomes if you take away pressure.

A couple of corrections from KPF's list:
- Steve Waugh's ton came in the super 6 game against South Africa, not the fabled tied semi-final (Australia needed to not lose, and won with a couple of balls to spare); it also certainly wasn't his only ODI ton (although he didn't make all that many);
- Da Silva scored a hundred in the 96 WC final vs Aus. In terms of knocks made whilst chasing this one perhaps doesn't get enough of a look-in, particularly as he came in early with both Jayasuriya and Kaluwitharana (up until then, the two real stars of the WC campaign from SL's batting perspective) out for not many at all.

Another knock which come to mind are Bevan's sensational run-chase against the West Indies in the CB series back in 95ish. Think Bevan only made 60odd, but marshalled the tail and hit the last ball (from Roger Harper) for 4 to win the game for Australia. I still reckon that's Bevan's best ever knock.

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by Galted on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 5:40 pm

Inzamam's 60 off 37 balls for Pakistan against NZ in the 92 semifinal for me. Came in with Pakistan needing 120ish off 15 overs with 6 wickets in hand. Doesn't seem that impossible a task now but it was at the time, especially on the NZ wickets which were devoid of pace and very difficult to score off.

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by kingraf on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 6:26 pm

Look, yes, the game has moved forward. And I do agree that it's largely because players have developed a no fear approach... I just take umbrage to suddenly giving players strokes just because it's a stock modern stroke. It's the cricketing equivalent of saying McEnroe could play a banana forehand if he had modern equipment, but never in a million years will Rafa volley as well as him, no matter when he was born.

If you think just picking up a modern bat gets you to a thirty ball hundred, fair enough... But the biggest six I've ever been hit for came off the edge of a Duncan Fearnley. I dropped a rank long hop and the Son of a so and so miscued a hook, and hit a leading edge all the way over long on. Really thought I had him gone there.
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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by Stella on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 6:36 pm

Cheers for the replies, and thanks for going back in time, Guildford :-)

I didn't see Lloyd's ton live, hence not commenting, but I do know it was a great knock. Staying in the 70's, my dad once told me of a Greg Chappell ton, which came in a run chase in the rain, coupled with dark skies, against England. it was by all accounts a wonderful innings.

Yes, comparing era's is impossible. I do though think ODI bowling has improved since the 80's, with more variety. With that being the case, I would say batsmen have improved since that era.
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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by msp83 on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 6:47 pm

The knocks mentioned here are all worthy ones indeed.
Sachin's 98 against Pakistan in the 2003 WC is one I would add to it. Tendulkar himself has played some real terrific knocks, the likes of Dhoni, Bevan and Hussey have engineered some unbelievable finishes.......

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by VTR on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 6:58 pm

I do find ODI innings hard to remember. Ask me to reel off great test innings and I could come up with hundreds. At the other end, ask me to name a great international T20 innings and I don't think I could think of even one!

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by Gerry SA on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 9:05 pm

VTR wrote:Yesterday I would doubt should make the top 10. I'd be looking for a bit more in terms of context and impact on the match (didn't he come in at 250-2?)

Gilchrist in the 2007 World Cup final comes immediately to mind, simply blew away the opposition with an incredible innings.

And Afridi's fastest ODI ton at the age of 16 on debut!
On a postage stamp ground in Kenya...Afridi slogged wildly and lucked out. Look at his career average low 20s. Just relies on luck.

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by VTR on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 9:16 pm

Why does a career average of low 20s mean he can't play a good innings? Also it was his debut at a very young age so there was probably no analysis on him available to formulate bowling plans.

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by Gerry SA on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 9:27 pm

VTR wrote:Why does a career average of low 20s mean he can't play a good innings? Also it was his debut at a very young age so there was probably no analysis on him available to formulate bowling plans.
It wasn't his debut. Second match. He's a filthy slogger who came off once in a blue moon.

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Re: Greatest ODI Innings

Post by VTR on Mon 19 Jan 2015, 9:55 pm

First innings then. Not sure why I have bitten on one of your idiotic dismissive opinions anyway.

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