The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Nadal nowhere near his best

+15
CAS
CaledonianCraig
kingraf
Born Slippy
hawkeye
TRuffin
Josiah Maiestas
temporary21
dummy_half
JuliusHMarx
Jahu
Haddie-nuff
naxroy
socal1976
It Must Be Love
19 posters

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by It Must Be Love Mon 26 Jan 2015, 11:37 am

First topic message reminder :

I must say, as a Nadal fan I'm very pleased that he survived the first week and is now into the QF.
When he lost in Doha R1, I thought considering the fact he's only played a handful of matches in 6 months, means he will be so rusty that he won't be competitive at all in Australia. But he's improved a lot from his performance against Berrer, and his latest 3 sets win over Anderson was his best play this year so far.
He was sick in his match against Tim Smyzcek, not sure sure why, but he seems to have recovered from that bug as well. Also I think Nadal has been pretty lucky with the way his draw has turned out so far- for example he avoided Rosol in R3 (after Rosol lost to Sela in R2).

So I'm already very happy with the tournament, and Nadal has exceeded my expectations, but I'm very wary that Nadal's level is nowhere near his best. I'm not sure if you guys have watched him so far, but he randomly makes ridiculous unforced errors on his forehand, easy stuff that he wouldn't normally miss in a million years. His movement has been ok, but when on the defence his shots haven't actually been great. For example he's normally very good at finding precision in passing shots, but he's kept missing them.
Against Anderson he made 25 unforced errors, only 1 less than Kevin himself; this for a player like Nadal is pretty alarming.

So overall despite being very pleased with his progress in the tournament (if you had told me before the tournament he would lose in the QF I would happily take it), I am very wary that Nadal still seems off his game; and with the high level from Berdych and Murray in this tournament- he faces a mountain to climb to progress further in his draw.

It Must Be Love

Posts : 2691
Join date : 2013-08-14

Back to top Go down


Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by Born Slippy Wed 28 Jan 2015, 10:57 pm

Yeah, presume he will now go to South America in Feb? Suspect he will then play one of the US masters (Indian Wells) before the clay season proper. I don't see this event will have done him any harm.

Born Slippy

Posts : 4464
Join date : 2012-05-05

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by invisiblecoolers Thu 29 Jan 2015, 1:01 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:How would you expect ? Like the rest of us accept it.Its into e man's hands there is nothing anyone can do.

May be Haddie you are more experienced to handle emotions, but most of Rafa fans are teenage girls and they do find it hard in him losing let alone losing to Jack and Jill players like Berrer.

invisiblecoolers

Posts : 4963
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Toronto

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by Haddie-nuff Thu 29 Jan 2015, 1:24 am

I'm philosophic about things ic even when I was a teenager !!!
I'm not a fangirl as you well know. The day MUST come when all good things in life come to an end.The one sure thing is nothing stays the same.I learned that early on in !my life.Rafa has given me and his fans more than we could ever hope for.Im hoping now for one thing FOR HIM he can win it for the 10th time. He will then OWN Roland Garros I will be happy to accept what happens after that.Something no one else will I believe achieve for many years to come

Haddie-nuff

Posts : 6936
Join date : 2011-02-27
Location : Returned to Spain

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by invisiblecoolers Thu 29 Jan 2015, 1:40 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:I'm philosophic about things ic even when I was a teenager !!!
I'm not a fangirl as you well know. The day MUST come when all good things in life come to an end.The one sure thing is nothing stays the same.I learned that early on in !my life.Rafa has given me and his fans more than we could ever hope for.Im hoping now for one thing FOR HIM he can win it for the 10th time.  He will then OWN Roland Garros I will be happy to accept what happens after that.Something no one else will I believe achieve for many years to come

+1 Agreed.

10th Roland Garros is pretty scary, I hope he doesn't win it Very Happy , just kidding good luck, but such feats should not be achieved easy, so I hope Djoko win this year and next year and Rafa wins it in 2018/2019 and call it off.

invisiblecoolers

Posts : 4963
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Toronto

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by Haddie-nuff Thu 29 Jan 2015, 1:51 am

It has to be this year ic after that Djoko can do what he will
Rafa will be gone!!!!!!









Haddie-nuff

Posts : 6936
Join date : 2011-02-27
Location : Returned to Spain

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 30 Jan 2015, 5:21 am

Hmm... Wish to comment on Antonico's post of yesterday.

I don't think some of Rafa's injury breaks are smoke screens in order for him to find solutions when his game is being 'found out' by other players. I certainly don't think his end of 2005 long injury break was for that purpose, having just won the Madrid indoor Masters. In 2006 and 2007 he didn't have any injury break. In 2008, he was injured at end of the season and so had to miss YEC and DC final; I doubt he would take a 'false' injury break at that time when the DC team needed him for the final in Argentina. In 2009 he had a short injury break after losing at the FO, however he's back by the Canada Masters and he was playing some of his worst tennis then, I doubt again that the injury break was to work something out to counter the other players, when Rafa obviously played without any confidence! Ditto for his 2010 and 2011 AO injury loss/retirement when he wasn't doing great coming back to play IW/Miami ( he was having problem with his serves during IW2011 and ran out of steam in the Miami final that year vs Novak).

In fact the only long break was that seven month injury break from 2012 to early 2013 and that might be the best time for Rafa and his team to work out something for him on his return, and he did very well in 2013 after coming back from injury. He wasn't doing well in 2014 after coming back from injury break, so I seriously didnt think those breaks were not for genuine injuries.

Players have to continuously improve or work on their game plans to stay relevant, this isn't unique to Rafa, and I believe it's an ongoing thing for the Nadal camp, I doubt they only do that during Rafa's injury breaks. As good as Novak is now, he also couldn't repeat what he had done in 2011, now that players are more aware of his game and know what to expect from him, and so he engaged Boris to help improve his game, likewise for Fed with Edberg.

Belovedluckyboy

Posts : 1389
Join date : 2015-01-30

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by socal1976 Fri 30 Jan 2015, 12:30 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Hmm... Wish to comment on Antonico's post of yesterday.

I don't think some of Rafa's injury breaks are smoke screens in order for him to find solutions when his game is being 'found out' by other players.  I certainly don't think his end of 2005 long injury break was for that purpose, having just won the Madrid indoor Masters.  In 2006 and 2007 he didn't have any injury break.  In 2008, he was injured at end of the season and so had to miss YEC and DC final; I doubt he would take a 'false' injury break at that time when the DC team needed him for the final in Argentina.  In 2009 he had a short injury break after losing at the FO, however he's back by the Canada Masters and he was playing some of his worst tennis then, I doubt again that the injury break was to work something out to counter the other players, when Rafa obviously played without any confidence!   Ditto for his 2010 and 2011 AO injury loss/retirement when he wasn't doing great coming back to play IW/Miami ( he was having problem with his serves during IW2011 and ran out of steam in the Miami final that year vs Novak).

In fact the only long break was that seven month injury break from 2012 to early 2013 and that might be the best time for Rafa and his team to work out something for him on his return, and he did very well in 2013 after coming back from injury.   He wasn't doing well in 2014 after coming back from injury break, so I seriously didnt think those breaks were not for genuine injuries.

Players have to continuously improve or work on their game plans to stay relevant, this isn't unique to Rafa, and I believe it's an ongoing thing for the Nadal camp, I doubt they only do that during Rafa's injury breaks.  As good as Novak is now, he also couldn't repeat what he had done in 2011, now that players are more aware of his game and know what to expect from him, and so he engaged Boris to help improve his game, likewise for Fed with Edberg.

Good post, I don't see a lot of positive from Nadal's injury breaks the way Antonico does. To me it hurts your ability to try new things and add to your repertoire to spend long periods of time doing rehab and being out of the game.

socal1976

Posts : 14212
Join date : 2011-03-18
Location : southern california

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by invisiblecoolers Fri 30 Jan 2015, 4:27 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:It has to be this year ic after that Djoko can do what he will
Rafa will be gone!!!!!!

I don't want Rafa to go, I want him to exhibit another great comeback by not winning a slam for 2+ years and then come back and win his fav slam and sign off.

invisiblecoolers

Posts : 4963
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Toronto

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by antonico Fri 30 Jan 2015, 4:30 pm

socal1976 wrote:
Belovedluckyboy wrote:Hmm... Wish to comment on Antonico's post of yesterday.

I don't think some of Rafa's injury breaks are smoke screens in order for him to find solutions when his game is being 'found out' by other players.  I certainly don't think his end of 2005 long injury break was for that purpose, having just won the Madrid indoor Masters.  In 2006 and 2007 he didn't have any injury break.  In 2008, he was injured at end of the season and so had to miss YEC and DC final; I doubt he would take a 'false' injury break at that time when the DC team needed him for the final in Argentina.  In 2009 he had a short injury break after losing at the FO, however he's back by the Canada Masters and he was playing some of his worst tennis then, I doubt again that the injury break was to work something out to counter the other players, when Rafa obviously played without any confidence!   Ditto for his 2010 and 2011 AO injury loss/retirement when he wasn't doing great coming back to play IW/Miami ( he was having problem with his serves during IW2011 and ran out of steam in the Miami final that year vs Novak).

In fact the only long break was that seven month injury break from 2012 to early 2013 and that might be the best time for Rafa and his team to work out something for him on his return, and he did very well in 2013 after coming back from injury.   He wasn't doing well in 2014 after coming back from injury break, so I seriously didnt think those breaks were not for genuine injuries.

Players have to continuously improve or work on their game plans to stay relevant, this isn't unique to Rafa, and I believe it's an ongoing thing for the Nadal camp, I doubt they only do that during Rafa's injury breaks.  As good as Novak is now, he also couldn't repeat what he had done in 2011, now that players are more aware of his game and know what to expect from him, and so he engaged Boris to help improve his game, likewise for Fed with Edberg.

Good post, I don't see a lot of positive from Nadal's injury breaks the way Antonico does. To me it hurts your ability to try new things and add to your repertoire to spend long periods of time doing rehab and being out of the game.

If you believe what you wrote, then my alternative theory has to be true: he needs to fire his training staff. There is no reason Top Class defenders like Ferrer & Djokovic can play essentially injury-free for years without the weeks and months away from the game, yet Nadal cannot manage to keep one entire season intact because of some such physical malady or other. When was the last time Nadal had a season he got through entirely with no sort of injury at all? If that's not a result of your training staff preparing you poorly, then what is it? And let's be honest - if his body was indeed breaking down to the extent he hasn't completed a whole season without some injury sidelining him for a length of time, he'd not be #3 in the world. Every time Nadal is away, is almost always a new body part breaking down. That's why I say I'm suspicious. It's my impression he uses the fog of "injury" to go away and retool. And I beg to differ that he never changes anything during his down time. It was during his summer off in 2009 that he began to work on the Serve that led to him winning 3 Majors in 2010. It was during that period he was first coached on his Serve by Oscar Borras, who'd helped him develop the added MPH's he never had before - they worked for months in Majorca. Even rival players noticed Nadal by 2010 had finally started implementing the Borras lessons, and was at that time beefing up his serve into the 120-plus range more often. Nadal at the time was saying then it was a "grip change" - which isn't wholly accurate. The biggest change was Nadal tucking his body into the Trophy Pose more correctly. The coiled body effect gave him more power on the serve.  That was just one example. In fact you can go through youtube videos of the Nadal service motion from 2005, then 2007, then 2008, 2010, to now. And you can literally see the differences from each of those seasons in the stance and the swing. It's as though he has to learn the right technique because he was never taught a proper technique as a junior. And that's because his uncle was merely a club player - he didn't have a professional level of education to impart to his nephew. Rafael Nadal has been learning a professional tennis technique as an already-professional player on the tour. It's only as his technique overall improved that he began winning more often on surfaces other than clay. And his only time to play catch-up on learning proper technique is during his "injury" downtimes.

antonico

Posts : 90
Join date : 2012-12-20

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by Haddie-nuff Fri 30 Jan 2015, 5:21 pm

Ic that just ain't gonna happen I'll put money on it.In 2 yrs he will be running his Academy and probably married

Haddie-nuff

Posts : 6936
Join date : 2011-02-27
Location : Returned to Spain

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by socal1976 Fri 30 Jan 2015, 5:58 pm

antonico wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
Belovedluckyboy wrote:Hmm... Wish to comment on Antonico's post of yesterday.

I don't think some of Rafa's injury breaks are smoke screens in order for him to find solutions when his game is being 'found out' by other players.  I certainly don't think his end of 2005 long injury break was for that purpose, having just won the Madrid indoor Masters.  In 2006 and 2007 he didn't have any injury break.  In 2008, he was injured at end of the season and so had to miss YEC and DC final; I doubt he would take a 'false' injury break at that time when the DC team needed him for the final in Argentina.  In 2009 he had a short injury break after losing at the FO, however he's back by the Canada Masters and he was playing some of his worst tennis then, I doubt again that the injury break was to work something out to counter the other players, when Rafa obviously played without any confidence!   Ditto for his 2010 and 2011 AO injury loss/retirement when he wasn't doing great coming back to play IW/Miami ( he was having problem with his serves during IW2011 and ran out of steam in the Miami final that year vs Novak).

In fact the only long break was that seven month injury break from 2012 to early 2013 and that might be the best time for Rafa and his team to work out something for him on his return, and he did very well in 2013 after coming back from injury.   He wasn't doing well in 2014 after coming back from injury break, so I seriously didnt think those breaks were not for genuine injuries.

Players have to continuously improve or work on their game plans to stay relevant, this isn't unique to Rafa, and I believe it's an ongoing thing for the Nadal camp, I doubt they only do that during Rafa's injury breaks.  As good as Novak is now, he also couldn't repeat what he had done in 2011, now that players are more aware of his game and know what to expect from him, and so he engaged Boris to help improve his game, likewise for Fed with Edberg.

Good post, I don't see a lot of positive from Nadal's injury breaks the way Antonico does. To me it hurts your ability to try new things and add to your repertoire to spend long periods of time doing rehab and being out of the game.

If you believe what you wrote, then my alternative theory has to be true: he needs to fire his training staff. There is no reason Top Class defenders like Ferrer & Djokovic can play essentially injury-free for years without the weeks and months away from the game, yet Nadal cannot manage to keep one entire season intact because of some such physical malady or other. When was the last time Nadal had a season he got through entirely with no sort of injury at all? If that's not a result of your training staff preparing you poorly, then what is it? And let's be honest - if his body was indeed breaking down to the extent he hasn't completed a whole season without some injury sidelining him for a length of time, he'd not be #3 in the world. Every time Nadal is away, is almost always a new body part breaking down. That's why I say I'm suspicious. It's my impression he uses the fog of "injury" to go away and retool. And I beg to differ that he never changes anything during his down time. It was during his summer off in 2009 that he began to work on the Serve that led to him winning 3 Majors in 2010. It was during that period he was first coached on his Serve by Oscar Borras, who'd helped him develop the added MPH's he never had before - they worked for months in Majorca. Even rival players noticed Nadal by 2010 had finally started implementing the Borras lessons, and was at that time beefing up his serve into the 120-plus range more often. Nadal at the time was saying then it was a "grip change" - which isn't wholly accurate. The biggest change was Nadal tucking his body into the Trophy Pose more correctly. The coiled body effect gave him more power on the serve.  That was just one example. In fact you can go through youtube videos of the Nadal service motion from 2005, then 2007, then 2008, 2010, to now. And you can literally see the differences from each of those seasons in the stance and the swing. It's as though he has to learn the right technique because he was never taught a proper technique as a junior. And that's because his uncle was merely a club player - he didn't have a professional level of education to impart to his nephew. Rafael Nadal has been learning a professional tennis technique as an already-professional player on the tour. It's only as his technique overall improved that he began winning more often on surfaces other than clay. And his only time to play catch-up on learning proper technique is during his "injury" downtimes.

I just don't buy it. He made a big leap in 2009 with his serve as demonstrated in AO 2009 not because of lengthy break from injury. Why would Nadal have to fire his training staff? The guy is injury proned. Some athletes are and some aren't. There isn't much explanation for it, I am not one of those people claim his style of play causes him to break down. I just think he is injury prone. I don't think a competitor like Nadal would miss slams to pull the wool over everyone's eyes or to take a break. And not all his injuries are to different body parts the main culprit has been his legs and knees, other injuries have occurred as well but most of the lengthy breaks have been as a result of knee and leg issues that to me look related. If he wasn't this hurt this time why didn't he come back with some retooled and improved game that would allow him to beat Berdych and do better than the Quarters and an early exit? He also looked rusty when he came back for the south American swing a couple of years ago losing to some guy we have never heard of on clay in his first tournament back. I just don't think great players in their prime will miss slams which are opportunities they will never get back to quote take a break and retool. There are plenty of lengthy slamless periods during the season to do that.

socal1976

Posts : 14212
Join date : 2011-03-18
Location : southern california

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by Jahu Fri 30 Jan 2015, 5:59 pm

None of those will happen in 2 years.

Though I can fix him with an Internet Bride, for papers.
Jahu
Jahu

Posts : 6747
Join date : 2011-03-29
Location : Egg am Faaker See

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 30 Jan 2015, 8:00 pm

I don't think Rafa worked on his big serve during his injury break in 2009. It was during 2010 that he worked on that serve, if not why wasn't he having that big serve during Wimbledon 2010? Rafa is injury prone, he has his foot issue to start with. His main problem is still his knee tendonitis issue, the back issue only occurred during late 2013 and that is after a good ten years in the main tour.

I don't think he needs to fire his trainer; IMO it's his playing schedule that's the problem. Note that since 2007, he has been playing five clay court events during the two months of the main clay season each year, and as he reaches the finals in practically every clay event he enters, the grinding on clay will take its toll on his body. He was also playing clay court style tennis on the HCs, hence further toll on his poor body especially the legs/knees. It's time for him to review his playing schedule, at least cut down one of the clay Masters event, and starts playing HC tennis on the HCS!

Belovedluckyboy

Posts : 1389
Join date : 2015-01-30

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 30 Jan 2015, 8:22 pm

Also, the slow HC at the AO is the killer, and how many times Rafa gets injured when playing at the AO? It's on the slow HCs that Rafa tends to play his clay court style tennis, not on the fast ones like Cincy or Montreal. While Ferrer, Novak and Murray also play incredible defences, none of them is as successful as Rafa on clay, and so they don't grind as much as Rafa does. Ferrer plays more clay court events than Novak and Murray but he's light weight, not as bulky as Rafa and so I suspect that may help in not putting as much pressure on the knees, unlike Rafa. Ferrer did have knee issues too in the past and was sidelined for a while and lately he was having more and more injuries and had to skip some Masters events.

Belovedluckyboy

Posts : 1389
Join date : 2015-01-30

Back to top Go down

Nadal nowhere near his best  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nadal nowhere near his best

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum