World Cup 2015

First topic message reminder :

Warm Up game between Ind and Aus ongoing...
it's an official ODI...though after so much cricket why do these sides need a "warm-up"

India's bowling in melt-down and the two most dangerous guys in Aus side Warner and Maxwell get 100s

Looks like Ind will be chasing 375

Hardly dared come on here after that...but nice to see everyone remaining so cheerful in the face of adversity
I can at least be thankful I was at work and it was done and dusted before I got home so missed the whole thing...

Obviously have to congratulate NZ ...they clearly bowled and fielded brilliantly ; and chasing that pathetic score no surprise that B Mc had a lot of fun. But even so I am left wondering how England can be that bad. Is it just lack of skills or are they mentally wrecked already ? Suppose we will get a better idea when they play again...but on this showing Scotland might fancy their chances! In all seriousness , the Bangladesh game really does loom as a potential early exit (even disregarding the danger of washouts which could always dictate the final placings) One might be tempted to say they'd be better off coming home early than queuing up to get murdered in the QFs anyway - that is if one were a pessimistic type...
Did cross my mind that Cook might feel he is well off out of this : not to say they were wrong to leave him out - he was clearly shot by the end of the Sri Lanka games ; but you can see why England were hoping his form would come back until the 11th hour...the replacements at the top of the order just haven't cut it against decent bowling attacks here ; and I'm not super confident they are going to turn that around. Ballance in my view should have been kept for Tests , and I hope they discontinue the experiment with him now and either return Taylor to three or try Hales...surely they can't do any worse ?
Apart from that there isn't a lot they can do to change things , I fear. Bell , Moeen etc are what they are , and unfortunately that probably isn't enough to succeed against either of these host teams ; just have to hope they can do the business against the lesser teams. Morgan is the big disappointment . It was tough saddling him with the captaincy at short notice when he was arguably in worse form than Cook ; and the apparent hope that the leading role would benefit his batting has come to nothing.
At least Root seems to be fighting ; hope they don't dump the captaincy on him too soon...
Bowlers haven't covered themselves in glory yet either ; though I'm not sure it mattered much what they did after the batting debacle.
Someone said it can only get better. I'd agree it can hardly get worse ; but that isn't quite the same thing , is it ? Do they still take a psychologist on tour with them ? He might be busy this week...

Olly wrote:Peter Moores should be sacked for over seeing such a spineless, gutless performance. Embarrassing isn't even the start off it

I was not in favour of appointing Moores to the job in the first place. But given the loss of about half the (Test) team for varying reasons , I'd suggest his early results in the Test arena haven't been too bad...rebuilding has apparently started ; though the jury is still out. So I think sacking him in response to a couple of rotten (even very rotten!) ODI performances would be football-style knee jerking...

Good post alfie - the only bit I'd disagree with is about Ballance. The management were backing the never done/never going to do anything Bopara before deciding at the last minute that he wasn't good enough.

So poor old Ballance is brought in last minute with no cricket behind him to face two of the best pace attacks around!

Bringing Ballance in was fine. Batting him at three, and Taylor at six, wasn't.

Couple of changes for me. I'd bring hales in for Ali. I feel hales could do a better job of the attacker at the top of the order. Never convinced me ali as a destructive opener. Would also like to see bopara back in and higher up the order, underrated ODI player for me. Other than that, can't change much. Fine margins in cricket, they had Australia on the ropes and couldn't kill them off. If they bowl them out for under 200 u fancy them to go on win!

No spinner, Liam? Ali's bowling has been pretty effective since he's come into the team.

First off, a near masterly performance from New Zealand. McCullum's batting was brutally and entertainingly (if you're not English!) effective. However, I would give even more credit to McCullum for his captaincy in the field and Southee for his bowling which set things up so well for McCullum's blazing knock.

McCullum handled his bowlers so well, always on the look out for wickets. Once the first one or two wickets had fallen, it was clear that McCullum's aim was not containment within 50 overs but getting England all out some way before that. Illustrated by Boult's opening spell - he was bowling nicely, looking threatening and not conceding many so he stayed on for 8 on the reel and deserved took an important wicket (Ballance) in his seventh. Not rocket science but too many captains would have seen it as too much of a risk and have replaced him after 4 or 5. McCullum also judged beautifully when to bring Southee back into the attack for his second killer spell. Excellent fielding as well by New Zealand, with McCullum again leading from the front.

Quick comment about Southee. Hugely impressed by his intelligent and penetrative bowling. I've a Kiwi friend in Auckland whose son was at school with Southee - I'm too scared to look in my inbox at the moment!

In the words of Bob Willis, England were ''indescribably bad''. In an abject batting performance, it may be harsh to pick out someone who isn't a front line batsman - but that won't stop me! Broad. When he walked to the crease with 7 down and more than 20 overs left, he had one job to do - ''Stay with Joe''. Root, the only Englishman with some semblance of batting form today. It's the stupid way Broad got out leaving Root totally in the lurch that rankles so much.

More generally and as reflected in posts from Alfie and VTR, selectors' indecision seems to have caught up with England. The ditching of Cook and Bopara were both correct calls but why, oh why, so late in the day and giving the new men so little time to adapt to their roles! Sends out all the wrong messages and must give greater heart to their opponents. Scotland for one must be encouraged by this result.

I'm still confident we'll beat Scotland (even though, don't forget, they comfortably triumphed over Ireland in one of the Warm Ups) but it is concerning that we're now having to look out for the results of others in our group and also listen to the weather forecast. The England team can be tweaked - I've always wanted Tredwell in - but, as others here have suggested, more than anything we need a much more positive outlook and belief. Mind you, that's never easy when you're losing so badly!

alfie wrote:

Olly wrote:Peter Moores should be sacked for over seeing such a spineless, gutless performance. Embarrassing isn't even the start off it

I was not in favour of appointing Moores to the job in the first place.  But given the loss of about half the (Test) team for varying reasons , I'd suggest his early results in the Test arena haven't been too bad...rebuilding has apparently started ; though the jury is still out.  So I think sacking him in response to a couple of rotten (even very rotten!) ODI performances would be football-style knee jerking...

We've lost 4 of the 5 series he's been in charge for so far and are now well on our way to being knocked out in humiliating fashion of the world cup (which by the way we moved the ashes for, in the process burning out key senior players)

It's not even like we've been playing Australia and south Africa away, we lost 3 of 4 summer series at home to sub continental sides.

VTR wrote:Good post alfie - the only bit I'd disagree with is about Ballance. The management were backing the never done/never going to do anything Bopara before deciding at the last minute that he wasn't good enough.

So poor old Ballance is brought in last minute with no cricket behind him to face two of the best pace attacks around!

Yes only one one-day game since September for Ballance before being thrust into the firing line, and in a position he doesn't bat for Yorkshire in the one day stuff when you have Taylor who's done a good job at 3 in Sri Lanka, getting shafted to 6.

England eh, why use logic

If I had to rebuild England ODI wise, I'd do a few things (don't follow English cricket, so some might be done already).

- Play 50 overs dammit. You guys have beeeeen dying out in the middle overs. Showing neither the ability or experience required to rebuild. 83-4/100-4 after 22 odd overs aren't death knell anymore, teams can still get 270-300, but that's because they know they have 30-odd overs left. English players don't understand that because, locally, even in that mess, they have to launch soon.

- Stick with players. David Miller has fed us a steady diet of nothing and less than for the last four years. But 60 ODI games later, we finally have a fully fledged #5.,

- Get Cook back. In some capacity. He still has a 35+ average and a SR near 80. At 30, and with absolutely nothing by way of natural successors pulling through... He's as good a go as any.

- Get out. Steyn has played domestically on three continents (counting IPL). Same with Johnson, et al. South Africa is literally teeming with an unending supply of pace, India spin. Why not spend a season, maybe in South Africa, or Aus? There's literally nothing to lose. You'll get about £25k, plus benefits, can't possibly make more in the county off season.

- Lol.... None of this is gonna happen

England got battered 36-0 in the Rugby World Cup of 2007, but still made the final after one of the (nearly) greatest sporting escapes of all time.

Yes, I have been on the Vera Lynn, but yes, England can do the same in this World Cup!

25k? to have even less time at home with the family!! Who the heck would do that? I wouldn't even do it and I am just a standard bloke.

Graf- One of the biggest issues with englands players was morale and depression. We play so much more away tests(and therefore spent so much time away) than any other nation to try and keep that top form going- but it seems to really have had an impact on our players mental abilities..

25k to improve as a player. These are the sacrifices made to improve, and at least they are paid sacrifices. If you need to improve you need to improve, one sacrificed winter can make all the difference as Steyn can attest. Well, he needed two... but you get my drift. In any case I was speaking more about the young 20-21-year olds starting out. Can't honestly think Bell would learn anything new at this stage

Don't forget that India have been in Australia for the best part of four months already, before that they were in England for a few months, before that it was New Zeland, and a few weeks before that South Africa for a month. That's a pretty taxing schedule (especially given the nature of some of the drubbings they were on the receiving end of).

these players need time at home and 25k is taking the chronic- That amount wouldn't even cover my earnings for the off season.

England's players need to start enjoying there cricket again- They need to enjoy touring. - If they want to earn real money they can play in the IPL or big bash etc. But whats more important to them seems to have some time home with the family- Back in the day the lads probally loved the tours- they were all getting drunk and had a girl in each port etc etc. Its not the same these days

We have the talent and the depth. we just need to start clicking again. Just getting someone like Flinty or tuffers(a real character) into the squad for the crack could be worth 5 players. They certainly dont need to go and play in SA..

And as you mention India- As bad as England look- We look better and proved it just recently- So its only proving my point in regards to players schedules.

Quite a lot of young players to go out and play in Australia especially. There's at least three guys I 'know' who play at Worcestershire, ages from 19-23, who are out playing top level Grade cricket in Aus at the moment so I would imagine it is fairly common for most counties, especially for the young lads.

With all due respect mate... you weren't doing particularly well back in the day either. Look, like all external advice, whether its taken or not is almost irrelevant. It's my view from here. In about forty-fifty years of proper international cricket (ie other sides could be reliably relied on to post up reasonable sides), England have had maybe two years as the undisputed #1 Test team, never won an The ODI world cup, and have a rather poor ODI win/loss ratio, given the fact that so many matches against Zim, Lanka, etc really were gimmes back in the day.

In any case if players aren't committed to improving by travelling... then it's a useless exercise.

Fair enough, Dizzle. As I said, I'm watching from afar... though I must say, I'm talking about actual FC cricket, not grade. I believe even Broad played a bit of grade while doing a horrid summer paving job.

In essence I'm talking about young players with fledgling domestic careers joining fully professional teams abroad

I have no idea what you point is- but the problem is the test schedule and the fact that we have so many players playing both codes.

I am primarily a test fan- so the odi's are a distraction- and were even more so back in the day.

cricket in this country and Australia is about the ashes- I know you as a safa is not part of that. But that is the way it is..

but we have been the most travelled- I dont think you understand what i mean when i say they are allready travelling the most out of any other nation! Yet you keep saying they are not. Well offcourse the central contracted players are not going to play in an off season for peanuts!!! and neither would anyone else!

Many young uns would and do though.

if we had completely different teams for all codes- things would become a lot easier.

How many young up and coming players would be good enough to get in foreign domestic sides though? There's only 6 Sheffield Sides, so you'd struggle to get any cricket there, same in SA I believe? The best place for young foreign players to come and get a chance is England!

"In essence I'm talking about young players with fledgling domestic careers joining fully professional teams abroad"

well you didnt state that in the beginning- you were talking about english international players(you gave examples like Styn)

Yes I agree with that highlighted statement- but you have confused the issue here completely- or just backed out

Who said they aren't? Show me a post where I said that? Please get off the high horse thank you very much. All I said is India have travelled almost non stop this past year. Add in IPL (which is nothing like a T20 comp in England or even Aus travel wise,) and it's a stacked schedule for a complete year.

Quinton de Kock played IPL that's eight weeks, plus two or three for "pre season" for $20 000, as a 20-year old Came back and hammered three tons in a row. But it's probably not related.

Don't mind Ashes. South Africa-Australia has it's own charm, as does Ind-south Africa. England doesn't really rank high, except for financially (thank you Barmy Army). The only reason The 2012 series was big here was because of the collective annoyance at the Steyn-Anderson, and even more insulting Kallis-Bresnan comparisons.

We don't have any natural cricket rivals but that's okay, if I wanted a sport where we had, I'd just watch the rugger. Our NZ rivalry is more than good enough. Quite pleased being #1 with wins in Aus, England and SL, to go with a win in Pak, and draws in UAE. Draws don't normally do it for me... But 72 all out and all.

I gave the example of Steyn because he went to England as a 21-year old. Then again a year later. So he had a fledgling career at that time. That's why I brought it up.

We have a two tier first class system over here. Provincial, then franchise. That puts it at seventeen teams. Provincial isn't necessarily the greatest standard, but it's a good place to cut your teeth (horrible umpiring decisions, difficult pitches, etc).

Look, if it doesn't suit the English way, don't do it. The current model is working so well and all.

And with it India like England look sh-te!

this WC is kind of like the football one in a way- Great players fatigued to the hilt getting shown up by fresh and ready players that have little or no pressure previously

Graf- we dont send players to SA- we take players from SA.

have you not being around that long

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/icc-world-cup-2015/top-stories/World-Cup-2015-is-fixed-WhatsApp-message-claims/articleshow/46314020.cms

Hmmm...not believable but interesting.......inspirational for Eng fans if there is even an iota of truth....puts Eng in QF inspite of today

Reminds me of that idiot Twitter account which literally tweeted out about a thousand possibilities a match, and deleted all the incorrect ones as the match proceeded, and ta da... The Fifa world cup was fixed.

Anyway... at least this means Aus Bangladesh won't be abandoned!!

Mat wrote:For anyone who finds Warne etc's commentary painful listening, you should read this. A right seeing to.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/feb/13/channel-nine-destroying-cricket-legacy

True observation.

I believe thought the producers of cricket telecast on TV have deliberately turned commentary into a side show...related to the game ongoing...but not exactly talking about it.

And I don't mind it actually

KP_fan wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/icc-world-cup-2015/top-stories/World-Cup-2015-is-fixed-WhatsApp-message-claims/articleshow/46314020.cms

Hmmm...not believable but interesting.......inspirational for Eng fans if there is even an iota of truth....puts Eng in QF inspite of today

Some people thought Afghanistan-Bangladesh was fixed after the US embassy in Kabul had a little misunderstanding.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/feb/18/afghanistan-bangladesh-cricket-world-cup-us-embassy-kabul

On the game itself.... Mayhem, Carnage.....and at the same time a privilege to watch Southee  and McCullum....two world cup record breaking performances in the same game  

NZ have driven Eng to the edge........and the fear is now either of Scot or BD need  just a small push to tip them over.

Off-course the whatspp prophecy is a ray of hope

Eng are as hopeless in ODIs as Ind in test matches......no less, no more.....both sides have talent...just do not know strategically or mentally how to tackle ODIs and test matches respectively.

KP_fan wrote:

Mat wrote:For anyone who finds Warne etc's commentary painful listening, you should read this. A right seeing to.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/feb/13/channel-nine-destroying-cricket-legacy

True observation.

I believe thought the producers of cricket telecast on TV have deliberately turned commentary into a side show...related to the game ongoing...but not exactly talking about it.

And I don't mind it actually

I don't mind if they want to play around and do their side shows before or after a match but actually during a game they should try to keep a little more focused. Think Richie, Lawry and the late TG... they'd throw in a wry comment but then get straight back to the commentary and keep all the personal jibes to a more acceptable level.

Such a pleasure to listen to the radio coverage here - you get a much better feel for the game with their more focused and descriptive commentary.

If they want to use one of their past experiences (with footage) as an example, then fine... but it has got too far out of hand I believe.
Maybe it is fun watching some ex-player's awkward moment but there's this undercurrent of "I was better than you... how many wickets did you take that day?... what was your batting average?" type of thing - which has a mean edge about it.

Anyone listen to Mark Waugh? He takes 1st Prize. Quite nasty! It's pretty crude low-brow humour (some would also say ignorant) and it's unrelenting.

What makes it worse for me (and which most of you guys don't see) is all the pre-match "banter" - interspersed with Mark Nicholas and to some extent Healy... who sort of annoy me... trying to take it more seriously. It goes on for an hour.

The pizza comments from Warne were so pointless and pathetic but the fact that he kept mentioning it during the next game.... and then they put up a poll? He was so far off the mark too. It was incredibly childish and embarrassing. Packer would have stamped that one out for sure.

Of course the most important thing to remember is: they are creating exaggerated caricatures of "your typical Aussie knockabout bloke".
Throw in all the worst aspects of some mythical Ocka persona and then multiply it by 5!

Nobody here (or most people here) really talks like that... it's all put on to satisfy foreign audiences. The more cringe-worthy the better.
I actually think it works against us. It makes winning harder and failure more painful.

WI vs. Pak......an interesting game it should be.
WI national anthem playing........what is WI national anthem when it is not a nation...
other than Holder no one else seemed to be chanting that anthem and within the 1.5 minute play others were looking bored .

and that sums up the team attitude of WI

Pak favorite in my view....simply because they are a team

KP_fan wrote:WI national anthem playing........what is WI national anthem when it is not a nation...

You could say the same about England and Scotland, in fairness.

kingraf wrote:If I had to rebuild England ODI wise, I'd do a few things (don't follow English cricket, so some might be done already).

- Play 50 overs dammit. You guys have beeeeen dying out in the middle overs. Showing neither the ability or experience required to rebuild. 83-4/100-4 after 22 odd overs aren't death knell  anymore, teams can still get 270-300, but that's because they know they have 30-odd overs left. English players don't understand that because, locally, even in that mess, they have to launch soon.

- Stick with players. David Miller has fed us a steady diet of nothing and less than for the last four years. But 60 ODI games later, we finally have a fully fledged #5.,

- Get Cook back. In some capacity. He still has a  35+ average and a SR near 80. At 30, and with absolutely nothing by way of natural successors pulling through... He's as good a go as any.

- Get out. Steyn has played domestically on three continents (counting IPL). Same with Johnson, et al. South Africa is literally teeming with an unending supply of pace, India spin. Why not spend a season, maybe in South Africa, or Aus? There's literally nothing to lose. You'll get about £25k, plus benefits, can't possibly make more in the county off season.

- Lol.... None of this is gonna happen

The first 3 were things they got utterly slagged off for doing when only marginally less worse than they are now.

Cracking stuff from Andre Russell to end the Windies innings. Brutal hitting.

Also, in massively exciting news, this is the first time in ODI history that a sides numbers 3 to 8 have all made at least 30 (via @Zaltzcricket). History being made before our very eyes.

Pakistan 1/3!

1/4!

Pak 1/4.....yeah that's 4 wickets for 1 run in 3 overs
well results have not gone to any script in this world cup

and this one is heading towards towards anotehr bizarre result

kingraf wrote:Reminds me of that idiot Twitter account which literally tweeted out about a thousand possibilities a match, and deleted all the incorrect ones as the match proceeded, and ta da... The Fifa world cup was fixed.

Anyway... at least this means Aus Bangladesh won't be abandoned!!

abandoned to weather is outside the reach of fixers

the list on whatsapp says WI will lose to Pak today..
well from 1/4 chasing 310 if WI go on to lose today then we can safely believe this whatsapp message

West Indies spank Pakistan by 150 runs.

Well its true scars from the opening games against their arch rivals haven't healed for Eng and Pak...and they have gone from bad to horrible....in their second game.

Now Pak is placed precariously on the edge of the cliff and a little push from IRE or ZIM can topple them over.

Remember the ICC wants a 10 team world cup without associates to make it more competitive

Just seen the highlights of the West Indies v Pakistan.

Good comeback from the West Indies after their defeat to Ireland. Much more of a team performance.

Pakistan look disjointed. Particularly poor showing in the field.

Not sure that this result will help Ireland. This Group now looking more open than ever.

Olly wrote:Remember the ICC wants a 10 team world cup without associates to make it more competitive

- ICC is terrible

Ireland Beat WI
Scotland gave a good fight vs NZ - who easily beat SL, and put england to Shame
Afg bowled well vs Ban, showed they have good few bowlers, Nabi looks World Class

how can they think 10 teams is a good thing, every sports looks to expand, Cricket goes the opposite way, can't reduce it from 14, especially not to 10.

Ireland should by now have Full Test Status, they've produced excellent players, and teams like AFG should be able to play test matches vs Ireland, or in Bang, Zim, WI.

Bangladesh wouldn't mind today's result one bit....... I hope they do make it to the next round somehow.......

West Indies made less mistakes against Pakistan and had control over their batting innings in the last 15 and then total command over the Pak top order to post a 150 run huge win. Pakistan, like England, have had 2 big losses, and if one of the lower ranked test sides or associates push them, they both can struggle to make it to round 2.

India South Africa tomorrow. Big day for Group A. With Pakistan and the Windies having lost first round and Pak having lost this morning, I'd say this is the clash for #1 of Group A. We should bowl first, and back ourselves to hunt down anything the Indians set us.

msp83 wrote:Bangladesh wouldn't mind today's result one bit....... I hope they do make it to the next round somehow.......

Yep, Bangladesh have to regard that as an unexpected bonus point for them.

That just might make qualification trickier for England and, even more so, if England experience a wash out and have to settle for one point against one of the outsiders in their group. That said, I appreciate England aren't currently guaranteed a win against anyone!

KO-KING wrote:

Olly wrote:Remember the ICC wants a 10 team world cup without associates to make it more competitive

- ICC is terrible

Ireland Beat WI
Scotland gave a good fight vs NZ - who easily beat SL, and put england to Shame
Afg bowled well vs Ban, showed they have good few bowlers, Nabi looks World Class

how can they think 10 teams is a good thing, every sports looks to expand, Cricket goes the opposite way, can't reduce it from 14, especially not to 10.

Ireland should by now have Full Test Status, they've produced excellent players, and teams like AFG should be able to play test matches vs Ireland, or in Bang, Zim, WI.  

Its so easy to look at it in this way. but you have to understand about the economy of world cricket to understand why things are being touted. It isnt simple. Its complicated- If the assoiciate nations can not bring money into the pot- the top nations get even less and then we kill the game...

The ICC have been giving associates money and they have been promising first class stuff for years- yet they never deliever and keep asking for more money.

There isnt an endless pot of money in world cricket. England,Oz and Ind can not prop the rest of the world up.

The only reason why associate nations are giving good games against teams like india or england etc is because they are playing week in week out and are shattered. The associates come along fresh as daisy's with no worries and no expectations..

So according to your "bring money to the pot theory" mysti we'll have about 4/5 nations playing cricket soon....

Absolute tosh mate

mystiroakey wrote:

KO-KING wrote:

Olly wrote:Remember the ICC wants a 10 team world cup without associates to make it more competitive

- ICC is terrible

Ireland Beat WI
Scotland gave a good fight vs NZ - who easily beat SL, and put england to Shame
Afg bowled well vs Ban, showed they have good few bowlers, Nabi looks World Class

how can they think 10 teams is a good thing, every sports looks to expand, Cricket goes the opposite way, can't reduce it from 14, especially not to 10.

Ireland should by now have Full Test Status, they've produced excellent players, and teams like AFG should be able to play test matches vs Ireland, or in Bang, Zim, WI.  

Its so easy to look at it in this way. but you have to understand about the economy of world cricket to understand why things are being touted. It isnt simple. Its complicated- If the assoiciate nations can not bring money into the pot- the top nations get even less and then we kill the game...

The ICC have been giving associates money and they have been promising first class stuff for years- yet they never deliever and keep asking for more money.

There isnt an endless pot of money in world cricket. England,Oz and Ind can not prop the rest of the world up.

The only reason why associate nations are giving good games against teams like india or england etc is because they are playing week in week out and are shattered. The associates come along fresh as daisy's with no worries and no expectations..

I do understand the financial side of things, but 10 team world cup isn't even a world cup, these sides get ignored and they don't get that much money, let them play tests even amongst itself, why can't ireland play Afg in test matches, I doubt either will mind. These associate players don't have the same level of training as India/England, so they too will get tired even from playing less. If the sport grows as a whole and reaches a wider audience, the money will come, but cricket is trying to become a executive club.