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The debates aren't likely to happen !! Empty The debates aren't likely to happen !!

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 5:06 pm

Cameron doesn't want them !!................The Lib dems think they should be involved in all of them............Both are saying up yours apparently....

So basically the debates unlike in the USA (Convenient or not to the front runner!!) will only happen If the governing party or parties think they are convenient....

Smack in the nose for democracy.............

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 5:52 pm

Although they are absolutely pointless

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Post by Derbymanc on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 6:09 pm

Waste of time anyway Truss, this generation of politicians will come out with absolutely anything but with no real need to stick to your word, it's all guff.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 6:14 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Although they are absolutely pointless

Pointless to you.........

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 6:15 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Waste of time anyway Truss, this generation of politicians will come out with absolutely anything but with no real need to stick to your word, it's all guff.

If the Lib dems go from 19% to 29% as a result of the debates in 2010...........

It makes calling them pointless a little silly.........

Debates cost the Tories a majority in 2015........

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Post by Derbymanc on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 6:21 pm

Sorry Truss, I've given up with the whole politics thing at the moment. None of them can tell the truth and we're about to get to the point where we get promised all sorts of things (help for married couples, less tax, no student fees, etc etc etc) until after the election when it carries on the same as before with the rich getting richer and the poor getting worse.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 6:24 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Sorry Truss, I've given up with the whole politics thing at the moment. None of them can tell the truth and we're about to get to the point where we get promised all sorts of things (help for married couples, less tax, no student fees, etc etc etc) until after the election when it carries on the same as before with the rich getting richer and the poor getting worse.

While I appreciate your position..............You can't say they are pointless as the evidence shows last time they changed the course of the election.

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Post by Derbymanc on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 6:29 pm

Yeah I suppose so, probably why the cons don't want it to happen and the Dems want to be really involved.

To be honest I'm of the opinion that the 4/5 top parties should be involved and if not then scrap them.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 6:33 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Yeah I suppose so, probably why the cons don't want it to happen and the Dems want to be really involved.

To be honest I'm of the opinion that the 4/5 top parties should be involved and if not then scrap them.

One minute in 2010 Cameron is saying it's a break through for democracy................and now when it doesn't suit him we a ren't having them....

Pretty poor..

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Post by Derbymanc on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 6:36 pm

Completely agree Truss mate. That's the problem I have with them all now, it's fine as long as they know they'll look better.

Have faith in what your saying and what you believe otherwise your showing us all that your full of kak.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 6:39 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Completely agree Truss mate. That's the problem I have with them all now, it's fine as long as they know they'll look better.

Have faith in what your saying and what you believe otherwise your showing us all that your full of kak.

Agreed..

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 6:58 pm

Its pointless because they add nothing to politics but more to "entertainment". When people are analysing facial expressions, confidence in speech and how other politicians used debates to get under peoples skin then I cant see why its important to democracy. Its a waste of time and can only hold any importance on votes to an idiot

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 7:01 pm

Libs went up ten points overnight.......in 2010...

Bush pulled up to Gore in the debates back home...............JFK the same with Nixon...Clinton - Bush etc..........

Whether it's a beauty contest or you don't hear what you want..

It's folly to say they are pointless.history tells us otherwise !!!

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 11:47 pm

But not having them will also have an impact, so its worth not having them too.

I suppose I mean its pointless because we gain nothing from having them, rather than pointless in that they have no impact

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 23 Feb 2015, 12:27 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:But not having them will also have an impact, so its worth not having them too.

I suppose I mean its pointless because we gain nothing from having them, rather than pointless in that they have no impact

That we can agree on Mate..........

However shouldn't be down to the governing party or parties to decide when they are suitable.....

Maybe we can agree on that ??

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Post by dummy_half on Mon 23 Feb 2015, 2:11 pm

Truss

Your mention of JFK v Nixon is interesting for two reasons:

1 - It was the first televised debate in the US, so this is something with a very long history there (noting that it only became a regular feature from 1976 onwards)

2 - Polling immediately after the debate showed an interesting disparity. Those who listened to the debate on radio considered Nixon to have won, while those who watched on TV (which was the majority) had Kennedy as the winner. Nixon sounded fine but looked uncertain, while JFK appeared more assured and authoritative to those watching.

I don't understand why Cameron is being so negative about the debates for this election - surely he should have confidence in appearing (in a TV studio setting) a more suitable PM than Miliband and more sensible than Farage?

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Post by Derbymanc on Mon 23 Feb 2015, 2:18 pm

Bung them a couple of quid and i'm sure they'll change their tune.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 23 Feb 2015, 3:32 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Bung them a couple of quid and i'm sure they'll change their tune.

Even worse for Straw..Blair has said he's a man of integrity !!.........


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Post by Hero on Sun 22 Mar 2015, 5:39 pm

This afternoon I had a woman knock on my door, could see she had a clipboard in hand so thought it was a chugger or someone from the local church on a mission, turned out though she wanted to give me a ticket to the Election debate at Salford, answered a few questions and now I'm going to be there on the 2nd April in the audience.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 22 Mar 2015, 9:43 pm

The one real debate has 7 leaders present...

Pointless..

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Post by dummy_half on Mon 23 Mar 2015, 4:13 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The one real debate has 7 leaders present...

Pointless..

Agree absolutely - will by necessity be sound-bite politics rather than getting in to policy details. Only thing I can see is that the Greens and UKIP will end up looking like complete numpties, while contributions from the SNP and Plaid Cymru will have English voters flocking to the nearest kettle.

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Post by Dave. on Mon 23 Mar 2015, 6:10 pm

Here, just be thankful it wasn't 8 and the DUP joined in.

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Post by Ent on Mon 23 Mar 2015, 6:22 pm

To be fair it would be great to see the DUP in a debate where they can't just say the opposite of sinn fein or talk about benefitting the protestant community.

Our health minister could get involved and explain why he thinks the world is only 5000 years old.

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Post by Marco_Marky - Stuffington on Mon 23 Mar 2015, 7:17 pm

These are only useful to those who can't be bothered to align their beliefs to a party manifesto, nothing wrong with that, it's the persons choice. However, the debates need to be properly administered with politicians forced to answer the questions put to them. Take the recent independence polls for examples...

Darling - "What are you going to do without the pound"
Salmond - "I'll negotiate to keep the pound"
Darling - "but what if that does work?"
Salmond - "It will"

You get the idea. What we need is a strong figure to say "Mr Salmond, answer this question or we are not moving on". Until that happens, it is just a popularity contest.

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Post by Liam on Tue 24 Mar 2015, 4:34 pm

Its a joke that these politicians, namely cameron, are picking and choosing what debates they show up for and who else attends. They are here to serve us, not the other way round. It should be made the law that they have to attend a series of tv debates in the lead up to an election. They should get with the modern times and embrace the platform that television offers, not just for them, but for voters, particularly us younger people.

I think the way they should have done it is have a series of debates, spread across the tv channels covering key topics that people want discussed, off the top of my head: Education, Immigration, NHS + health service, The deficit etc. Have Cons/Labour/Lib Dems/Greens/UKIP leaders present at each debate whereby the audience members ask the questions direct to each leader. No slandering other leaders/parties, only allow them to answer the question directly in regards to what they plan to do if elected. Simple as that.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 24 Mar 2015, 5:06 pm

We only had these debates for the first time in 2010, not sure why everyone's getting so hung up on them.

We're not interesting/dramatic enough (compared to the Yanks) to make them interesting, so who gives a f*ck??!

Cameron's played this badly, but reality is he's nothing to gain. Fringe numpties will just look even worse whether he's there or not and EdM is a joke who nobody likes or respects - yet Labour still have poll leads. No matter how well DC outdoes Ed, it'll make no difference come May.

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Post by Marco_Marky - Stuffington on Tue 24 Mar 2015, 7:22 pm

DC has played this about as badly as he possibly could. Big as Toppy says, he's got nothing to gain. It should be mandated, how that should look I'm not too bothered about but in the age of TV they need to be seen.

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Post by Ent on Tue 24 Mar 2015, 7:30 pm

Not sure really, Brown could have won the previous election had there not been any debates (or at least done better).

I'm not a fan of DC but you know there is something refreshing about the leader of a country just refusing to be bullied into doing something that is pretty much a waste of time.

He used them to his benefit last time and as the man in the position of power he can only really lose out now.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 25 Mar 2015, 9:18 am

Last time round, from memory, Brown appered the biggest loser, DC did ok, but the main winner appeared to be Clegg.

Alas all the resulted in was major LD poll gains which weren't reflected in actual turn out.

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Wed 25 Mar 2015, 10:05 am

People do tend to forget that despite 'Cleggmania' Lib Dems actually lost seats last time

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Post by Rowley on Wed 25 Mar 2015, 10:21 am

Suspect this election will make the last one look like a roaring success for the Lib Dems!

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 25 Mar 2015, 10:34 am

Think this will be a real rainbow election, especially from a popular vote point of view.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Mar 2015, 9:32 am

Well last night proves why the 'debates' are pointless and redundant.

DC 'wins' according to most pollsters and Twitter surveys etc etc, why? Because he's great? Masterful? Clearly the best? A massive success?

No.

Because he's not as sh!t as Milliband and Red Ed is a fooking disaster.

..........and that'll make fook all difference to the voting polls or what happens on May 5th, as DC on his own isn't the problem, it's the Tory party as a whole's toxic image as opposed to Labour's faux-nicey nicey hear to help the little man BS.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Mar 2015, 9:36 am

Good summary from UK Polling Report:

ICM did a rapid “who won” poll after the Paxman interviews with Cameron and Miliband tonight. Cameron won over Miliband by 54% to 46% – we won’t know until the tables appear, but I expect that going to show Labour voters thinking Miliband won, Conservative voters thinking Cameron won, the rest splitting evenly and not many minds changed. Still, we’ll see if there is any longer term effect in the next week’s polls. I wouldn’t have imagined there will be – while the debate was new in 2010, events like tonight’s Paxman interviews or the leaders’ Question Time style event next month aren’t new – there were things just like that in2005 and 2001 and they made bog all difference to anything.

Meanwhile tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 36%, LAB 34%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 13%, GRN 5%. A Tory lead today after some ties and Labour leads so far this week, suggesting the underlying average in YouGov’s daily polls is still neck-and-neck.

UPDATE: ICM tables are now up here (thanks to that fine man Tom Clark!). As expected, perceptions of who won fell pretty much along the lines of pre-existing party support – 84% of Conservatives thought Cameron won, 74% of Labour supporters thought Miliband won, Lib Dems were split, Ukippers thought Cameron won, Greens thought Miliband won. Note that while the sample was demographically and politically weighted to be nationally representative, it was a very heavily Labour sample in terms of current voting intention: the pre-debate voting intentions of the sample had an 10% Labour lead (thus are the difficulties of doing things like this – people who watch programmes like this are different from your average voter!)

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 27 Mar 2015, 7:29 pm

I thought both Cameron and Miliband were absolutely awful yesterday.

Quite painful to watch.

"Hell yes, I'm tough enough." Complete cringe.

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Post by Dave. on Fri 27 Mar 2015, 8:09 pm

I must say the DUP rhetoric about backing the side who will give NI 1 billion unnerves me. Should the government really be held to ransom like that. Surely no different to the SNP?

Glad the grubby deal to oust Bercow was defeated. He's been a good Speaker. It's his job to hold the government to account.

Haven't watched the discussion last night. Try and do at the weekend. In South Belfast I'll vote either Conservative or Alliance. (Kinda the NI version of the Lib Dems)

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 30 Mar 2015, 5:06 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Well last night proves why the 'debates' are pointless and redundant.

DC 'wins' according to most pollsters and Twitter surveys etc etc, why? Because he's great? Masterful? Clearly the best? A massive success?

No.

Because he's not as sh!t as Milliband and Red Ed is a fooking disaster.

..........and that'll make fook all difference to the voting polls or what happens on May 5th, as DC on his own isn't the problem, it's the Tory party as a whole's toxic image as opposed to Labour's faux-nicey nicey hear to help the little man BS.

It's a mess...................Labour up 4 with Yougov because Miliband impressed in the debates..........Tories up 4 with Comres because Miliband didn't impress in the debates..........

Big one is Thursday especially for Farage..............who is being hurt through lack of exposure..

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