TNA is obscurity

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TNA is obscurity

Post by Prometheus on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 5:03 pm

Apparently in Vince's call to investors he said about Sting that WWE "were able to take someone from 'obscurity' and make him into a major attraction within WWE".

I find this a really interesting comment. We know that WWE doesn't like to acknowledge the existence of TNA, and I think most of us can understand why the bigger company wouldn't want to draw attraction to the smaller one. And none of us can deny that WWE is the much bigger product. But, I'm not exactly sure you can call TNA obscurity. Adam (or someone else who has the numbers) can probably correct me, but TNA was getting around 0.5M viewers when Sting was there I think compared to WWE's 3.5M. So, its much smaller, but its not like he was wrestling in gyms and town halls.

Just to broaden this, I was quite surprised by some of the commentary in the WM match. "This isn't Starrcade, Sting has to be overwhelmed by this". "Sting tried to put the McMahon family out of business" (and of course the McMahon family never tried to put any other wrestling families out of business).

I enjoyed the match, I think much more than I expected and much more than many others did. But watching this back it really felt like WWE just brought Sting in to be another WCW man buried. And, even though I'm not his biggest fan, I'm not sure he didn't deserve more respect. Even simply for the match, it took this odd DX v NWO swerve, but before then Sting "The Vigilante" should have been the babyface as he wasn't here to go over old WCW business just to stop the heel Authority doing bad things.

So yeah. Match better than I expected. Though odd in many ways. Treatment of Sting. Bad, but that's why he never came to WWE so he should have seen that coming. Vince's statement and burial of Sting. Just bizarre.
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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Adam D on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 5:13 pm

The burial was weird and spiteful but not at all unexpected.

With regards to figures, TNA was drawing about 1 million viewers at the end of Stings run with a lot more during its boom (I think it might have been about 1.7m from memory).

This weeks figures has TNA drawing 440k on the live show going up to 600k with the repeat included which is a 10% jump from the week before.

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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Prometheus on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 5:17 pm

Thanks for the input Adam. I thought my click bait title would be your Bat signal.

Do you think that was Sting's last outing for WWE? And do you think how WM went down was the plan when Sting signed?
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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Hero on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 5:23 pm

In regards to the Town Hall/Gym comment, looking at the crowd size when they film in the US its not much different to a two-bit indy show, I imagine the percent of people at the indys that pay to get in is also a lot higher.

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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Prometheus on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 5:24 pm

Touché
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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Kay Fabe on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 6:25 pm

I felt Sting should have and would have went over HHH as it would have made him look every bit of a threat should he and Taker go at it at next year's WrestleMania however after watching the horrendous Frak that was their match then I have no doubts about the right guy going over, HHH always trys to steal the WM show and I have no doubt if Sting could actually still go they would have had a match that wasn't about to enter the WrestleCrap Hall of Fame.

I don't really have a problem with Vince saying what he said, it sounded like he was working his investors,  its the kind of thing I'd expect to here him say in front of the camera so that leads me to believe he does genuinely believe what he says, I don't think he ever considered TNA a rival and to be fair TNA themselves have never proven themselves to be one either

I suppose what he said could be perceived to be spiteful but I'm not so sure, while he definitely has it in him I think he just said what he believes, Sting in his mind has been irrelevant for 12 years and the WWE have brought him in and positioned him in an important role for the last few months

I watched and enjoyed TNA when Sting was still on top of his game, as a Wrestling fan I know he wasn't irrelevant and his involvement with TNA gave them credibility in its formative years but from a business point of view I don't think you could argue with Vince.

I do feel bad for Sting, I don't think he did the right thing in 2002 when he refused the WWE's advances, I think he had a genuine name value and a strong friendship with guys like Ric Flair which I believe would have kept him strong politically in the WWE locker room but he choolse a different path, whether that was down to paranoia on his behalf on how he would be treated in the WWE or whether he was more driven to help build an ulternative rival with TNA only Sting really knows but I believe he was a big enough name to have a far greater legacy than what he's had - he could be on to 10+ Mania appearances by now and could have had some of the biggest matches on the biggest stages of his career

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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Prometheus on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 8:22 pm

If Vince was working his investors, he should have concentrated on other areas to stop his stock tanking by 16% Very Happy

The thing for me is that WWE marketing has done next to nothing. Sting has appeared as he was in WCW as Crow Sting complete with face paint and baseball bat. Austin has been retired for longer, but if he appeared in TNA as the SCSA character at the weekend, I don't think Dixie could claim to have brought him from obscurity.
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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Fernando on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 8:40 pm

Fair to say people were happy with WM - Raw got 5.4 million viewers biggest since Raw 1000 in 2012.

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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Kay Fabe on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 12:10 am

Prometheus wrote:If Vince was working his investors, he should have concentrated on other areas to stop his stock tanking by 16% Very Happy

The thing for me is that WWE marketing has done next to nothing.  Sting has appeared as he was in WCW as Crow Sting complete with face paint and baseball bat.  Austin has been retired for longer, but if he appeared in TNA as the SCSA character at the weekend, I don't think Dixie could claim to have brought him from obscurity.  
Thats because he wouldn't have been obscure for the past decade, he's been making films and been inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame -Austin's stock is still quite high, i don't think Sting's stock has ever been that high since WCW folded (speaking as someone who valued his contribution to TNA)

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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by talkingpoint on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 8:37 am

well well well, haven`t been around for a while, but found out Sting finally wrestled on the "grandest stage of the them all" and was intrigued to see how he fared. I think all the comments so far have been fair. Sting could have joined WWE in 2002 and had a fairly successful career eradicating any idea of him falling into "obscurity". On the other hand, he brought name value to TNA and while they may never have been (or probably ever will be) in a position to rival the WWE, as Adam has pointed out they have had some relatively decent TV ratings so they are not exactly "obscure" to wrestling fans.

I am happy TNA`s ratings continue, little by little, to improve. I don`t think the overall quality of the product has been damaged by moving to Destination America and they have a great roster still (imo). Also with the new international TV deals with Brazil and Canada, TNA are continuing to grow globally. With strong enough international fan bases and TV ratings, TNA could tape more impact! episodes abroad to larger crowds. Hopefully in the near future TNA will be able to return full time to live tapings.

I was surprised Sting lost to HHH as I thought he would be allowed to win his first Mania PPV event. Not sure what his contract is like with the WWE, but he`s definitely not in his prime anymore and can`t see him spending anywhere near the same amount of time he was with TNA in WWE.

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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Adam D on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 9:23 am

I just wanted to clarify my "spiteful" comment from yesterday. I think the burial by HHH after the mania match and the fact that Sting lost was the spiteful inference.

There was no need for Sting to lose that match and if anything it was not "best for business" - it was a petty decision.

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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Prometheus on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 10:05 am

I think I can argue that Sting should have lost the match. At least HHH managed to argue it Very Happy

I just found the comments from the commentary team (i.e. Vince) and the promo from HHH afterwards to be not really necessary.

Adam. If / when Sting gets interviewed sometime in the future, or when he writes another chapter in his bio do you think we will find that the result of that match wasn't what was agreed when he signed with WWE? Because I do.

And I'd point to the handshake at the end. Kayfabe, it made no sense. Sting came back to beat HHH because HHH was running the business badly. HHH then uses outside interference and the sledgehammer to beat Sting. That is not two equals giving respect at the end. I think the handshake was more because Sting went through with it. I can well believe that HHH was saying "hey this is what Vince wanted, not me" and it was related more to the off camera story than what happened in their story and match.
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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by Adam D on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 10:15 am

Completely agree - this has Vince all over it.

You could also argue that TNA took EC3 out of obscurity and have made him a star.

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Re: TNA is obscurity

Post by dyrewolfe on Wed 08 Apr 2015, 2:29 pm

I caught the HHH - Sting match, just out of curiosity.

The size of the venue and the crowd was impressive...you can see why a lot of people don't think WWE has any serious competition.

Thought HHH's "Terminator" entrance was a bit naff really.

The match itself was well planned and executed IMO. Sting was made to look strong. The crowd certainly seemed to like him - though I don't know how much of that was due to HHH being a heel.

The interference by DX and NWO (and Shawn Michaels) I thought was quite well done, in that it didn't disrupt the match too much and made Sting look stronger.

Typically heel-ish finish by HHH...but then WWE weren't going to have one of their main stars get beaten at Wrestlemania by a new (and ex-WCW) guy. No idea what the outcome was supposed to be. I could only see Sting winning if he was going to stay for any length of time. It worked okay for me without having any knowlege of the goings-on behind the scenes.

I thought the commentary was a bit odd...seems like WWE employ heel and face commentators, as well as wrestlers. One guy was very anti-Sting and making a lot of derogatory comments about him and WCW, while the other guy was a lot more reasonable / supportive.

Funnily enough I quite enoyed it. Despite some of it being OTT, it was well-paced and they didnt talk over each other as much as Taz and the new guy at TNA.

Overall, a good match - surprisingly heavy on the nostalgia, but non the worse for it IMO.

Anyway, getting back on topic, I think Vince's dismissal / non-acknowledgement of TNA is only to be expected. As Adam said, any mention of them would be to ackowledge they have some competition...no matter how small.

Going off-topic again, is Sting only on a short-term contract with WWE? Was it only up to Wrestlemania and if so, can we expect to see him return to TNA in the future?


Adam D wrote:
Completely agree - this has Vince all over it.

You could also argue that TNA took EC3 out of obscurity and have made him a star

To an extent I suppose. They've made him one of their biggest names...and to be fair he is a great character. However, given the relative audience sizes, (and global reach of the respective brands), he's a big fish in a small pond, compared to the likes of Cena, Orton and The Rock.
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