West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

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West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:41 pm

WI win toss and decide to field. Not sure why. This "exploit early life in the pitch" thing is really overplayed. Feel England would have batted had they won the toss. Lot of pressure on Cook now.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:05 pm

Trott out for nought. Oh dear.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:07 pm

That was a peach of a delivery tbf
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by alfie on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:09 pm

Not the return to Test Cricket Trott was hoping for.

Decent first over from Taylor clap Ramdin gets exactly the start you want when inserting your opposition.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Duty281 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:13 pm

Back to proper cricket after eight months playing the limited-overs twaddle, and England already under early pressure.

Really tough year for England - trips to the UAE and South Africa, as well as home series against New Zealand and Australia.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by alfie on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:15 pm

Olly wrote:That was a peach of a delivery tbf

Yes. I don't think we need to issue a knee jerk denunciation of Trott's recall just yet (although I have no doubt some will Smile
Sometimes you get a good one early. But naturally he'll be disappointed , just getting back into the side after all his issues.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Stella on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:20 pm

TROTT OUT!
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:22 pm

Cook should've been gone too
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by alfie on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:25 pm

As to the team : can't say I am surprised at the selection. Tredwell over Rashid was logical I'd have thought , on the little exposed form so far. And Jordan , as Mike noted on the other thread , was the incumbent third seamer. Though he did go for a few runs the other day...
Curiosity is human ; I'd have liked to see one of the new boys. But the chosen XI are probably deserving of first go this trip.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:26 pm

Perhaps Trott could have left it but tough ball to get first up.

Good start from the West Indies. Cook and Ballance need to hang in there. Not convinced by around the wicket this early from Taylor.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Stella on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:29 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Perhaps Trott could have left it but tough ball to get first up.

Good start from the West Indies. Cook and Ballance need to hang in there. Not convinced by around the wicket this early from Taylor.

I nearly always went round the wicket to left handers. Don't know why and I know it's irrelevant.
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by alfie on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:42 pm

Roach bowls Cook off an inside edge ! Super start for West Indies...

They are bowling pretty well...keeping the ball up : bit of pressure on Ballance and Bell now.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:47 pm

Pressure grows on Cook. Shows how much we all know about bowling first eh?

Stella I have coached loads of guys who (used to) go round the wicket by default to left-handers. Usually they have no idea why. Depends on a lot of things but generally to Cook especially if the ball is still swinging and your action permits it I would start over the wicket. Once he begins lining you up on off-stump properly then consider switching to round.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by alfie on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:06 pm

I like the West Indies tactics this morning.  Don't think there is going to be anything special in the pitch for the bowlers ; but if you pitch it generally up and get some swing early on that doesn't matter too much ; they've kept the 7-2 field and concentrated in that area just outside off stump - with good results so far.
Thought Taylor attacked well - though I am not too excited by the round the wicket so early either.
Roach has sprayed a few a bit wide ; but that hasn't cost them.  And when he's been closer into the stumps he's had the batsmen thinking.
Keep the ball up , attack one side of the wicket...
Simple , but effective.

Very much their first hour.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:19 pm

alfie wrote:As to the team : can't say I am surprised at the selection. Tredwell over Rashid was logical I'd have thought , on the little exposed form so far.  And Jordan , as Mike noted on the other thread ,  was the incumbent third seamer. Though he did go for a few runs the other day...
Curiosity is human ; I'd have liked to see one of the new boys. But the chosen XI are probably deserving of first go this trip.

Hi Alfie - yeah, this is pretty much the team I would have gone with. Tredwell (nous and dependability) and Jordan (sometimes wayward but often exciting) are very different characters but I like them both and would have them both in my team. Tredwell will understand he's a stop-gap but won't let that affect him. From his Surrey days, Jordan is an emotional guy who needs plenty of encouragement - if he can prove his worth and then have some assurance of a place, I feel he could go on to be very good.

The only exception being - as I said on the other thread - that I would have played Lyth instead of Trott. Not looking to make great capital out of that - haven't seen the dismissal but gather it was a good ball and we all know anyone can fall early on to one of those. Just though doesn't seem right to me to play Trott, particularly after all his issues, out of position. For me, going into this Test, Trott should have been competing for a place with Ballance at number 3 (which Ballance would have won) rather than Lyth as an opener.

I don't for a moment claim that my doubts are proven and the argument won at this too early stage, just confirming how I see the situation.




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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:24 pm

Usually Antigua pitches both the new and the old one at St Jones, are tracks on which you should never play test cricket, you use them to drive your truck.......
Don't know how this one would pan out to be, but a decent first hour for the West Indies.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:27 pm

Agree with Guildford on Trott. I have my doubts about his selection, but that's not the point here, nor even the 2nd ball duck. Lyth was picked as an opener, he had a pretty good county season for the champion side, had runs under his belt in the last practice game.......

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by alfie on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:27 pm

Hi guildford ...yes Lyth may feel he was unlucky not get a go : rather a victim of the lack of a proper warm up , in that England had to almost pick the team in advance of the "trial" games : and after Trott was first picked Lyth had scant chance to make them change their minds. Guess he didn't do anything to prove his point either , to be fair.
Ballance rather gifts his wicket just ahead of the rain break...didn't need to be chasing that one. Dot ball pressure ...

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by alfie on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:29 pm

Anyway well bowled West Indies so far...England in trouble but I will have to get some sleep : hope they can revive !

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Stella on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:32 pm

alfie wrote:Anyway well bowled West Indies so far...England in trouble but I will have to get some sleep : hope they can revive !

Ballance and Bell's batting would have helped with the sleep.
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:43 pm

By the way is it time we rename Ballance Mr Ten?

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:53 pm

The West Indies bowlers had their moments in South Africa in the tests, only to lose the intensity after the initial burst an throw away whatever advantage. Will they learn? Benn not looking threatening on this track, can't b3e expected to create too many problems on a day one strip any ways. So it is important that the seamers keep the level of intensity up throughout the day. Not really sure about Jason Holder as the 3rd seamer in a 4 man attack.......

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 5:32 pm

msp83 wrote:By the way is it time we rename Ballance Mr Ten?

Why?

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by shivfan on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 5:32 pm

A good first session...well done, Taylor, Roach and Holder.
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 6:18 pm

Suleman Benn is about as threatening as my nans dog
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 6:25 pm

West Indies being West Indies. Letting things slip after a good start. England going along nicely since lunch, scoring at over 4 an over since lunch without any further damage.......
Despite the terrific start, this could be along day for the West Indies on the field.......

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 6:40 pm

I think Ballance scored 10 a few times at the WC as well, hence the "Mr Ten" comment.

I would have picked Trott over Lyth, just. Trott has proven quality, and if England have picked him then they must feel he's (mentally) fit enough to play.

Picking up on something Ollie said in the other thread, I don't believe that in test cricket you pick someone to have a look at them; you pick someone if you believe they are part of your best (available) XI. In that respect I won't have any real issues if England pick the same XI the whole way through this series, assuming nobody makes a case for inclusion (almost impossible, unless to do with conditions, e.g. a 2nd spinner or the apparently reverse-swinging Wood) or a case for exclusion (injury, or very poor form) - but then I've had big arguments over teams I coach when I pick the same XI for the whole tournament (apparently it's "not fair" not to give everyone a chance, I say tough cookie...). I agree with guildford that the curtailing of tours to now drastic levels makes it even tougher (as an aside I believe this to be a significant reason as to why so few teams win abroad nowadays). But that is another discussion.

Pitch looks very flat but signs of reverse swing happening now. West Indies did really well in the morning session. They still need to keep things quiet and not let these two get away, then chip in with the odd wicket. England need these two together at tea and beyond.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 6:48 pm

Benn bowling 11 of the 39 overs so far. Not too smart captaincy from Ramdin.......

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 6:53 pm

Bell set for a big one here. Gone pass 50 and looking good for many more....... Benn is looking ordinary....... Perhaps Ramdin should take him off and may be give a couple of overs to Samuels. He's not going to turn them anyways, but perhaps his flattish, quick ones might produce a mistake.......

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 6:54 pm

Now runs coming at a fair clip, West Indies are losing the plot.......

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 7:36 pm

Root also goes pass 50, The recent South Africa experience all over again for the West Indies. They are just not good enough to play any form of the game other than the 20 over one. They stay good for 20 overs of a game, that's all they can do.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 7:39 pm

Seems Root has some issues with his back....... Other than that, everything going England's way since that injudicious stroke from Ballance.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 7:45 pm

Root/Bell playing firmly and getting reward for it

I'm not one who agrees with the whole "need someone to break up the three similar players" at the top - but they need to be less tentative than they were today (everything was very tentative, from defensive strokes to the attacking ones)
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by shivfan on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 7:46 pm

Normal service resumed...167-3 at tea.
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 7:49 pm

Pretty much the perfect session for England. For me the West Indies gave up the initiative right at the start when first of all they didn't start with their two best bowlers (why start with Benn? That makes no sense), but then the bowlers themselves let the pressure off - Taylor was a bit wayward. For a side struggling to go even at 2 per over suddenly scoring at 4+ was just a massive release and West Indies never reclaimed things from there.

Credit should go to Bell and Root who were quite proactive about things whilst remaining sensible. Root just looks so at home at 5.

Having said that England have really just reached parity, given the pitch (although how West Indies fare on it remains to be seen, it does look very very flat; there was a bit of reverse around the 35th over but nothing for the last 10-15 overs at least). A couple of wickets puts the West Indies right back in it.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 7:55 pm

A couple of wickets would bring the West Indies right back in it, but the way they are going about, it might come far too late....... And going by their recent batting efforts, England already are 2/3rds of their way to a decent total.......

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 7:58 pm

Root does look a natural at 5 and he's far more at home in the middle order rather than at the top, in international cricket. Good confidence boost for Bell too, before the big summer. He would need that considering the possible permutations waiting in the wings

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by VTR on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 8:32 pm

Fairly typical Windies performance so far, they have good spells but are unable to sustain a high level of performance over a couple of sessions

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 8:40 pm

Both batsman marching on, into the 80s now both of them.
West Indies proving themselves to be a 3rd rate side that they have really become unfortunately. Sad........
Brathwaite's wicket will have to be earned, and although on his last leg as a test cricketer, Chanders is Chanders. But I can see the West Indies folding with the bat without much resistance whenever they get the chance to bat. Looking by their performance with the ball of late, that would take some time though.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 8:43 pm

Gosh, Root's gone!. A wicket from nowhere. Taylor has Root playing on........

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 8:46 pm

Would have preferred Buttler in at 6. Stokes was struggling to buy a test run when he played the last time. Think he's more of a 7 than 6, and Buttler though he's able to score rapidly, is capable of a lot more. England are so set in their ways!!

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Stella on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 8:54 pm

Not sure either are a good number 6, MSP.

Taylor coming round the wicket. Mike won't be happy :-)
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 8:56 pm

Stokes is 100% more of a 6 than Buttler - certainly more of a top order bat than people give him credit for
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by Stella on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 8:58 pm

Yeah i'd have Stokes above Buttler. If stokes can get his bowling right, then an ashes six, seven, and eight, of ali, stokes, and buttler looks solid.
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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 9:01 pm

Ramdin is really losing it here!. What is Benn doing now? Just when they have an opening? Benn has been pretty poor throughout the day, never looked like picking a wicket other than 1 ball in the first session that turned....... While Stokes is new at the crease and Bell closing in on his hundred, he should have continued with his 2 best bowlers Taylor and Roach, or used Holder.......

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 9:07 pm

Stokes is an impressive bat, but I rate his bowling higher. He can even come in as a 3rd seamer in a 4 man attack....... England have been obnoxiously conservative with Buttler in ODIs, I don't think he should be typecasted similarly in tests. Of the 3, Ali, Stokes and Buttler, I would have Buttler in at 6, Ali at 7 and Stokes at 8. This may not be in line with conventional thinking and people would want Ali, who has batted far more regularly in the top 6 at county level to come in ahead, but Buttler is a different kind of a player, and I think not only in limited over formats, but in the longer format as well, he can be an impact player.......

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 9:09 pm

Stokes looking good and positive out there....... Hope he keeps his cool and wouldn't venture passs the line between positive and reckless.......

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by NickisBHAFC on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 9:11 pm

Ian Bell saving England again. In other news grass is green and Michelle Keegan is rather pretty. 

Nice innings from Joe Root as well. 

Cook just needs to be binned.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 9:19 pm

The deadly combination of Ben and Samuels operating for the West Indies!. What's wrong with Ramdin? Taylor getting a deserved break before the new ball is understandable, but the combination of the 2 non-turning slow bowlers on a day one track when a batsman is relatively new to the crease and the other in the 90s, you really have to give it to the West Indies captain!. Godawful!.

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Re: West Indies v England 1st Test - Antigua

Post by msp83 on Mon 13 Apr 2015, 9:24 pm

Hundred for Bell!. Well played.......

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