West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

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West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Stella on Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:28 am

20 wickets is the key to winning test matches, and we saw in Antigua that it's easier said that done, even against this so called 'mediocre' West Indies team. True, the pitch died and became easier to bat on, but we lacked variety, and bite.

So who comes in?

Rashid/Ali or Wood for Tredwell or Jordan?

Tredwell did take four in the first innings, but will more than likely tie an end up, than clean up. Jordan is similar, and with Greneda more prone to spin, I can see one of the two spinners replacing the latter.

Lyth/Ali for Trott?

Trott had a stinker, but received a couple of good deliveries, and will be harshly dropped, after his first game back. Some have mentioned Ali to open, though this won't happen, imho.

The likely XI

Cook
Trott
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Ali/Rashid
Tredwell
Broad
Anderson
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by LondonTiger on Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:35 am

while I may not have agreed with the selection of Trot over Lyth initially, I feel it ios wrong to drop a batsmen after a single test. So for me Trott should stay. Alex Hales assertion that Moeen should open seems crazy to me.

Tredwell bowled well in the first innings, but his flat style proved useless when the pitch offered turn in the 4th Innings. Problem is, by all accounts Rashid has looked nervous while in squad - which is a shame as he bowled well in the Emirates for Yorkshire.

Can we fit Stokes and Ali into the same team? Both really should be batting at 6 and acting as 5th bowler.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Stella on Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:51 am

Stokes as first change doesn't look inspiring.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by jimbohammers on Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:23 am

I wold have:

Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Buttler
Rashid
Jordan
Broad
Anderson

Ali, Root, Rashid, Lyth plenty of options to bowl spin

Headscratch

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by alfie on Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:32 pm

Can we just assume this is going to be a spinner's paradise ? I had a quick look at the two Tests played there before , and noted Roach took a bunch of wickets... And I understand West Indies have now replaced the disappointing Benn in their squad. With a seamer...

I suspect we may see Ali in for Tredwell if it is true he has a niggle. Wouldn't be astonished if that is the only change ; though there must be a chance they'll "rotate" Jordan out for Wood - or the apparently forgotten Plunkett ?
Trott will surely get this Test ...bit pointless bringing him back and dumping him after one match.

Hope there is a bit more for the bowlers in this one : the Antigua pitch wasn't awful - teams were bowled out over the first three days ; but it really died over the last two , with no compensating deterioration ; no real surprise that forcing a result proved just out of reach.


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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:05 pm

I can't believe the 2nd Test starts already. I feel sorry for the bowlers and its no wonder they end up bowling at ~80mph rather than high 80s. They will be absolutely nackered by the time The Ashes start.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Stella on Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:17 pm

And we have the Kiwi's over before the Aussies arrive. A busy time ahead.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:28 pm

Stella wrote:And we have the Kiwi's over before the Aussies arrive. A busy time ahead.

Yep, looks like 2 Tests and 5 ODIs before the Aussies even get here. Aussies play a 2 Test series in the Windies in June by the looks.

Crazy scheduling, I am not getting excuses in early but its ridiculous how much cricket the England bowlers are expected to get through, they are victims of the cash-cow being milked for all its worth.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:22 pm

The West Indies have dropped Benn and rightly so. So Devendra Bishoo should make his way back to test cricket after almost 3 years. He's a more attacking option. Think they should also drop Marlon Samuels and should bring in Carlos Brathwaite who can bat a bit and also cover the 5th bowler option they really missed in the first test. Samuels anyways doesn't seem to care much....... Promote Holder up to 6, Ramdin at 7 and Carlos Brathwaite at 8. Not going to happen though.
As for England, Ali in for Tredwell/Jordan, and Lyth for Trott. Might see the former, the latter is highly unlikely to happen.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Gooseberry on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:26 pm

If the bowlers could actually get wickets they wouldnt have to get through so many overs.

I cant see england going into this game with any set up other than 4 seamers and a spinner (plus support from Root) again. That does lighten the load on each individual.

Ali for Tredwell deepens the batting and hopefuly hides the issue england have with their very long tail. If Tredwell is injured it makes that change easy. Although Stokes was the weakest of the bowlers the ony other change could be jordan for one of the water boys, but doubt that will happen nor will it make a noticeable difference.

Trott...well once he was given the spot (meanwhile at home lees hits 100, Hales 200 and KP ...19) it would have been ridiculous to drop him after one game. He needs to turn up in this one though to stay there for the summer. And the bowlers as a unit need to turn up whoever they are.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:31 pm

Don't thik Stokes was the weakest of the 5 bowlers for England. He had bowled well, in fact he looked more threatening than the other 3 seamers at times. Yes he didn't pick up any wicket, but then a catch was dropped of his bowling, a close LBW went the batsman's way because of umpire's call, and then he overstepped when he found the edge and when the catch was taken. Overall as a bowler, think he's better than Jordan really.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Mike Selig on Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:13 pm

The schedule is just daft, but hey that's how cricket is run nowadays, so...

I agree with msp that I thought Stokes outbowled Jordan in the last game. Only issue with dropping Jordan is who fields at slip off the spinner? Not suggesting it is a major consideration, but it is another issue.

A lot of people (not necessarily on here) seem to be assuming Tredwell will be dropped. I'm not so sure. Depending on what the pitch is doing England may well be tempted by 2 spinners. Even if not, how ready is Ali to take on the prime spinner role on flatter pitches - different scenario from the couple of series he has played in so far.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:38 am

Main cricket headline this morning seems to be former Yorkshire player Michael Vaughan thinks Yorkshire legspinner Adil Rashid should play in this Test. Clearly an unbiased opinion there!

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Stella on Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:46 am

VTR wrote:Main cricket headline this morning seems to be former Yorkshire player Michael Vaughan thinks Yorkshire legspinner Adil Rashid should play in this Test. Clearly an unbiased opinion there!

On the basis that he might conjure up some magic balls. Will this England set up pick a man who lacks consistency?
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:55 am

Stella wrote:
VTR wrote:Main cricket headline this morning seems to be former Yorkshire player Michael Vaughan thinks Yorkshire legspinner Adil Rashid should play in this Test. Clearly an unbiased opinion there!

On the basis that he might conjure up some magic balls. Will this England set up pick a man who lacks consistency?

I think they will in this case. As Ali is back, there is room to play the two spinners. Not sure who the third seamer would be though, maybe Plunkett for his extra pace?

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by NickisBHAFC on Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:57 am

Id go for 

Lyth
Cook
Ballence
Bell
Root
Stokes
Butler
Rashid
Jordan
Broad
Anderson

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by guildfordbat on Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:17 am

NickisBHAFC wrote:Id go for 

Lyth
Cook
Ballence
Bell
Root
Stokes
Butler
Rashid
Jordan
Broad
Anderson

Unless injury rules him out, I would be reluctant to ditch England's leading wicket taker in this series. Wink

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Stella on Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:21 am

guildfordbat wrote:
NickisBHAFC wrote:Id go for 

Lyth
Cook
Ballence
Bell
Root
Stokes
Butler
Rashid
Jordan
Broad
Anderson

Unless injury rules him out, I would be reluctant to ditch England's leading wicket taker in this series. Wink

I've read he may be dropped. Don't quote me on that :-)

Edited

This may be put down to a niggle, so the England camp don't have to answer any awkward questions.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:24 am

NickisBHAFC wrote:Id go for 

Lyth
Cook
Ballence
Bell
Root
Stokes
Butler
Rashid
Jordan
Broad
Anderson

What has Ali done to be dropped as England's lead spinner? Would you really be confident with Rashid as the only spinner?

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Mike Selig on Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:16 am

That bowling attack would be lunacy. Anderson and Broad will be bowled into the ground as no other bowler will go at under 3.5, maybe 4 per over.

Tredwell took 5 for 120odd at under 2 per over. Not quite sure why everybody is quite so keen on dropping him all of a sudden...

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by alfie on Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:47 am

Don't know about dropping Tredwell . But reports on Cricinfo suggested he might have a bit more than a niggle , so we could be talking about a forced change...though if it comes to that Moeen presumably has to satisfy them that he is ready to play a full part as a bowler after his return from injury...
Rashid still sounds to me a bit of a "wild card" selection ...of the type much beloved by media pundits and fans who don't have to stand or fall by their choices. I may well be wrong , of course.
Some of the clamour for change seems to come from a perception that England "failed" with the ball on the last day in Antigua ; and I don't really agree. From where I sat it looked like a very hard surface from which to conjure any penetrative magic. Had a few West Indies batsmen not succumbed to pressure and rather donated their wickets , it may not have needed the efforts of the number nine to hold the fort for the last hour...worth noting that when an Australian team including Lee , Johnson and McGill attempted to bowl WI out on the same ground a few years back , they managed just five wickets in 93 overs on the last day.
I thought England's bowling was pretty good in the conditions. There is a case for Ali : he bowled with some considerable success against India last year. Not sure he is the new Swann yet though.
I do have reservations about Jordan. As Mike mentioned , his value as a slip fielder is not neglible ; but I'm not totally convinced it makes him a better bet than , say Plunkett - as quick or quicker , and arguably more consistently threatening. Woakes isn't here , and Wood I've not seen ; so I'm leaving it to the tour selectors Smile

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:56 pm

Start delayed by rain but that hasn't stopped the TMS/Cricinfo armchair geniuses from contributing with this effort being the pick so far:

"Negative selection from England. Australia wouldn't keep with Cook, Trott, Broad if they weren't consistently performing. The team should be Mooen, Lyth, Ballance, Bell, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Jordan, Woakes, Rashid, Anderson"

Woakes must be a hell of a player to be able to turn out injured from 3,000 miles away!


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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by alfie on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:00 pm

Grenada looks a nice place.

But rather wet at the moment. Sad

Early night for me , I think...

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Stella on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:13 pm

Any team news?
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Stella on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:42 pm

Ali in for Tredwell. The batting has improved, but what about the bowling?
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:43 pm

England win the toss and bowl. Moeen in for Tredwell is the only change.

Taylor out injured, so Gabriel comes in, Bishoo for Benn as expected is the other change for the Windies.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by guildfordbat on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:51 pm

Not the choice I would have made but credit to Cook for stating in his tv interview with Atherton that Moeen was preferred over Tredwell and making clear that injury did not come into it.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Stella on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:52 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Not the choice I would have made but credit to Cook for stating in his tv interview with Atherton that Moeen was preferred over Tredwell and making clear that injury did not come into it.

Yes, good to hear.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by seanmichaels on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:56 pm

Christ England are negative. Buttler at 8 Jordan 9?

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:59 pm

If Cook can't score some runs against a bowling attack of Shannon Gabriel, Jason Holder, Kemar Roach and Bishoo he may as well retire

Definition of mediocre
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:02 pm

Cook should get some runs at last, Jerome Taylor won't be around to swing that cheap ball that Anderson couldn't move an inch!. Terrible blow for the West Indies, he was the best seamer on both sides in the first test. Gabriel has a bit of pace but nothing else. Roach hasn't reached his peak form coming back from injury. Glad to see Bishoo back, leggies are always exciting!. He had some early success in test cricket before losing form. Hopefully the more attacking spin option would make up for the loss of Taylor.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:05 pm

Olly wrote:If Cook can't score some runs against a bowling attack of Shannon Gabriel, Jason Holder, Kemar Roach and Bishoo he may as well retire

Definition of mediocre

Spot on. But I have a nagging feeling he will be out for a tortuous 20-odd before the middle order cash in

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Hibbz on Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:48 pm

I'm loathe to moan because I guess they just pick what they think is the best team but the selection is just so uninspiring. Do we really need all of Stokes, Jordan and Broad?

Other than his slip catching I'm not convinced Jordan brings a great deal and would have liked to see Rashid given a chance.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:53 pm

Massive swing for Anderson, big wicket of Brathwaite!. Early blow for them.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:57 pm

Best ball I've seen Anderson bowl since the one that bowled Michael Clarke in the ashes of 2013
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:41 pm

To say broads opening spell was awful would be a compliment
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:41 pm

Seems the site has some issues.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:44 pm

Ah well, my post has at last gone through!. It was giving a strange 'your request has timed out' error.
Anyways, the usual regular stuff from devon Smith handing the first session to England. Anderson did produce an absolute ripper to get Brathwaite but Broad was pretty poor, but Smith undid his early watchfulness with an absolutely awful shot to give it away just before lunch to hand the session to England.


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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by kingraf on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:47 pm

Seems Bravo has settled. Backing the new Lara to score a ton here.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:51 pm

Finn and Tremlett being called for now by a TMS expert. Reading such comments is probably my favourite part of following Test cricket

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:52 pm

England bowlers not making the batsmen play enough, and when they make them play, its often of short of length balls that the batters are able to deal with on the backfoot.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:55 pm

The short and wide rubbish isn't the worst option to Samuels, but seems the disgraceful performance in the last game was a bit too much even for his selfrespect.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:58 pm

Anderson into his 11th over, and the west Indies innings into the 23rd over.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:20 pm

Stokes seems to have injured himself trying to field. Didn't look good to start with. Not good at all, but he seems OK after a bit of medical attention and stays on the field. Might have come on to bowl in place of Jordan, but Cook has brought on Ali now, would want to give Stokes a bit of time before he has to bowl.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:30 pm

Broad strikes and a wicket against the run of play as Bravo goes edging to slip playing a nothing shot.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by kingraf on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:30 pm

Bloody hell Darren
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:33 pm

On a track that has enough of life for the bowlers, the England bowlers aren't up to mark, but the West Indies batsmen showing great hospitality by showering with lots of gifts.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:38 pm

Chanderpaul hasn't been at his best since the South Africa series and Samuels is a calamity waiting to happen. Not holding out too much hope here for the West Indies though England really haven't been bowling all that well.


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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:39 pm

The wicket providing Broad with a bit of energy, a couple of pacy ones......

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:55 pm

Chanderpaul to gift his wicket away, Stokes introduced late into the attack, had some luck going his way at last, as Chanderpaul chipped one straight to point with a terrible, terrible shot. Blackwood v Stokes, that should be interesting. But West Indies in huge trouble at 81-4 at the moment.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

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