West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

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West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Stella on Mon 20 Apr 2015, 10:28 am

First topic message reminder :

20 wickets is the key to winning test matches, and we saw in Antigua that it's easier said that done, even against this so called 'mediocre' West Indies team. True, the pitch died and became easier to bat on, but we lacked variety, and bite.

So who comes in?

Rashid/Ali or Wood for Tredwell or Jordan?

Tredwell did take four in the first innings, but will more than likely tie an end up, than clean up. Jordan is similar, and with Greneda more prone to spin, I can see one of the two spinners replacing the latter.

Lyth/Ali for Trott?

Trott had a stinker, but received a couple of good deliveries, and will be harshly dropped, after his first game back. Some have mentioned Ali to open, though this won't happen, imho.

The likely XI

Cook
Trott
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Ali/Rashid
Tredwell
Broad
Anderson
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 6:33 pm

England should go 1 up here, not expecting too many dramas here. Bishoo could create a problem or 2, but he doesn't have the score to attack, and England bats deep. And with no Jerome Taylor, there is not much possibility of support either.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 6:41 pm

Olly wrote:Should be a stroll in the park this

Well it ought to be. Never taking anything for granted ; but the pitch seems ok still so you'd fancy 143 in 59 ...

New ball did a bit for England this morning so expect Roach and Gabriel to come at them hard. But after that it's really just Bishoo

But Trott's gone for a duck...

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 6:41 pm

Trott drags on and is out for a Donald Duck. England 2 for 1.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 6:49 pm

Trott did have a bit of a score in the first innings here, but the other 3 knocks were out and out failures. They've had their first hundred run opening partnership in a long time in the first innings, but the opening combination debate is going nowhere.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 6:54 pm

msp83 wrote:Trott did have a bit of a score in the first innings here, but the other 3 knocks were out and out failures. They've had their first hundred run opening partnership in a long time in the first innings, but the opening combination debate is going nowhere.

For me it is now too late to anything about it before the Ashes. The selectors will just need to cross their fingers and hope their trust in Trott proves warranted.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:01 pm

Dunno , Craig. Think Trott will get Barbados ; but failure there and I fancy they'll look elsewhere for the NZ Tests. I would , anyway.
Not much time , true . But if (presumably) Lyth has got what it takes , we will know it pretty soon...NZ pace bowlers will be a decent test...

That's all getting ahead of ourselves a bit though.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by SimonofSurrey on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:06 pm

1/ I wonder if J Trott happens to know the old anecdote that ends with the punchline, from umpire to departing batsman, 'tha' were loocky to mek nought, lad'! He has now.
2/ I wonder if Adam Lyth's enjoying his all expenses paid Caribbean holiday? Thought not.

If we keep Cook as opener and captain, then he must walk out to the middle with Lyth or, possibly, Compton, ie a genuine opener.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:06 pm

Perhaps Ramdin should give an exploratory over to Bishoo though the ball is new. Getting Ballance early would be a big boost.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:17 pm

Not too clever from Trott but should still knock these off.

Only time I can ever remember England failing such a low chase was due to a spinner that it now turns out was bowling illegally

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:18 pm

Cook on to 21, the confidence seems to be returning at last.......

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:24 pm

That is a nasty blow for West Indies...and for Holder. Doesn't look good...
To be hoped he is able to make a quick recovery ; he has already proved himself to be an admirable young man and an excellent prospect for his team.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:39 pm

It did look like a nasty injury to Holder. Fingers crossed it isn't as bad as it looked.

Cook looking far more at ease now - looks like the confidence is coming back. England 46 for 1 and 97 needed.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:47 pm

Ballance riding his luck a bit here...

Target under 90 now . Bishoo needs to do a "Benaud - Manchester 1961" for West Indies ...Tall order.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by kingraf on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:54 pm

Windies lost it all in one crazy session. England to their credit, bowled well, but not six wickets in the session well. Still, as far as crushing nine wicket (so far) defeats go, I think this will be an encouraging one. They are developing a reasonably gifted batting line up, if Gayle could be bothered, they could go
Gayle
Brathwaite
Bravo
Samuels
Chanders
Blackwood

Decent top six. One batsman north of fifty, three over 40, and two just short of 40. The bowling is pretty toothless though. Not sure what happened to Kemar Roach, he was building up to a goodie 2013 and early 2014, he's just fallen off completely. Holder I still think has the natural abilities to be a great bowler in the McGrath mould, but still a little early on his journey. Being carted for 70 runs in 2 overs by de Villiers TWICE probably hasnt done much to convince of the values of a consistent line and length, but he'll grt there. Overall, I think WIndies are maybe one or two really good additions away from being a competitive team.

As for England, Encouraging signs abound. Root, Cook, Broad. Good going for them. One worry will be blowing away the tail. It sounds ridiculous, but if England had restricted the Aussie tail to reasonable add ons, there's a good chance that the Ashes would have gone differently. I'm still only giving them a 50-50 against NZ, and underdog status against Aus, but it's coming together.

*lastly... hundreds for Bell, Root and Ballance... Just who will FIGJAM replace?
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:57 pm

kingraf wrote:Windies lost it all in one crazy session. England to their credit, bowled well, but not six wickets in the session well. Still, as far as crushing nine wicket (so far) defeats go, I think this will be an encouraging one. They are developing a reasonably gifted batting line up, if Gayle could be bothered, they could go
Gayle
Brathwaite
Bravo
Samuels
Chanders
Blackwood

Decent top six. One batsman north of fifty, three over 40, and two just short of 40. The bowling is pretty toothless though. Not sure what happened to Kemar Roach, he was building up to a goodie 2013 and early 2014, he's just fallen off completely. Holder I still think has the natural abilities to be a great bowler in the McGrath mould, but still a little early on his journey. Being carted for 70 runs in 2 overs by de Villiers TWICE probably hasnt done much to convince of the values of a consistent line and length, but he'll grt there. Overall, I think WIndies are maybe one or two really good additions away from being a competitive team.

As for England, Encouraging signs abound. Root, Cook, Broad. Good going for them. One worry will be blowing away the tail. It sounds ridiculous, but if England had restricted the Aussie tail to reasonable add ons, there's a good chance that the Ashes would have gone differently. I'm still only giving them a 50-50 against NZ, and underdog status against Aus, but it's coming together.

*lastly... hundreds for Bell, Root and Ballance... Just who will FIGJAM replace?

Stop stirring , raf ...you'll have KP_f after you Smile

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:58 pm

FIGJAM?
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:08 pm

In fairness KP should be in the team Raf without a doubt, i'd happily drop Ballance or Ali to have him back.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:10 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:FIGJAM?

Craig - that beat me too.

Having just googled it, I can report it's an acronym prevalent in youth culture and the title of a song by the Australian pop combo band Butterfingers. Not the sort of expression that would have been uttered by Reg Varney or Bob Grant. Trust that helps. Wink

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by kingraf on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:18 pm

FIGJAM is indeed an acronym, and was the nickname given to KP in Aus, for an Ashes. Suits him to a T though...
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:21 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:FIGJAM?

Craig - that beat me too.

Having just googled it, I can report it's an acronym prevalent in youth culture and the title of a song by the Australian pop combo band Butterfingers. Not the sort of expression that would have been uttered by Reg Varney or Bob Grant. Trust that helps. Wink

Cheers for that. laughing thumbsup


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:21 pm

England walking this at the moment.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by msp83 on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:28 pm

Kemar Roach has had injury issues throughout his career, hasn't looked the same bowler after his latest comeback after injuring himself in South Africa. Even in that test, he had really tested the South African batsmen before it all fell apart for him. Looks a shadow of that bowler. Perhaps it would take him a bit of time to regain top form. The lifeless tracks haven't helped either.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:11 pm

Gary Ballance becomes the 3rd fastest player to 1000 test runs in history, behind Len Hutton and Herbert Sutcliffe, just in ahead of Wally Hammond and David Gower.

Esteemed company
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:15 pm

Yes he seems much better suited to Test cricket than the limited overs format. Cook also going along nicely - a perfect test for Cook. Runs aplenty for himself in both innings and winning the test.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by JDizzle on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:16 pm

Think FIGJAM was originally the nickname of a certain left handed American golfer, who is a lot more popular with the fans than his fellow pros!

Seen nothing of it today, been freezing most of my extremities off watching cricket (not even bloody playing), but however easily the West Indies capitulated it is important for England to start winning games of cricket again, and this is a start. Cook passing 50 again is a good sign, but Trott will be under pressure. If you've decided he is a better option than Lyth then he deserves the final game but a failure there, and he will be out. Still not convinced by this Rashid talk too, Moeen hasn't been at his best this Test but I struggle to believe that Adil would rip through tails when someone like Imran Tahir (a genuine quality ODI/T20 international cricketer ) can't.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by kingraf on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:22 pm

Ballance may have beaten him to a thousand runs, but he'll never quite have the lazy waft to the slip down to art which Gower had it.

Seems FIGJAM is certainly appropriate then for KayPee, JD!
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:37 pm

Excellent win that - brilliant bowling this morning (aided by some poor batting mind) and nicely polished off.

Hopefully England are still proactive in there selection for the 3rd test - I'd like to see Lyth given a go personally - I don't want us to be going into NZ/AUS with a debutant opener
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:37 pm

England coast to victory - a result that looked very unlikely at the start of play today. A few positives for England such as Cook, Root and Ballance looking in good shape with the bat, Anderson and Broad scooping wickets, Ali also getting some and of course them winning the test. The things to concern them perhaps being Trott's form (one good knock in four) and perhaps needing a bit more variety in their bowling attack.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:19 pm

Strange game but a lot of satisfaction for England and still some for the West Indies.

Jury remains out on certain places in the England team. That's not ideal but in fairness it's often been the way over the years as an important series approaches. At least there are options and no selection has proved to be 100% wrong.

And finally ... pleased to get one over on Raf. Very Happy

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:02 pm

OK first off I didn't see any of the play today.

However, I feel somewhat vindicated in my criticism of WI's negative tactics from previous days. The problem with setting yourselves up purely to make yourself hard to beat is that a bad session is much more likely to cost you the match. Viz: if WI had batted a bit more positively in both innings and not let England get so many cheap runs before taking the second new ball (afraid it would fly off the bat?) they could easily have started today 100+ runs to the good, in which case England would have faced a much much trickier chase (both number of runs and run-rate).

I'm well aware that of course a more positive approach would have resulted in WI being bowled out earlier, and that it's easy to be wise (and a bit smug Very Happy) after the event, but I do think it's significant that WI have so far batted a fair bit longer than England in both matches, but scored fewer runs.

Plenty of positives for England so far: Cook seems to be getting some form back (5 fifties in his last 8 innings - nothing to sniff at), Ballance continues to look fully at home at 3, Bell scored a century in the first game, and Root - in the form of his life - has found his best position at 5. Stokes and Buttler scored a few runs in the previous Test too. Broad and Anderson are both bowling well too, Anderson in particular seems happier able to simply focus on his bowling, with pressure of the record off.

Of concern are obviously Cook's opening partner. It helps that Cook is scoring a few again, but it's a tricky one. Do you give Trott another chance? You run the risk of then needing to throw Lyth in at the deepest of deep ends, and I'm still not quite convinced Trott is an opener. A n°3 yes, but an opener, not sure.

Other concerns are the spinner: Moeen bowled better in the second innings, helps that he got a bit of rhythm. I also think he bowls well to the tail, which is important (as raf points out), as we don't have anyone particularly adept at blowing the tail away. His batting has gone downhill though, he could do with a score in the next test to just get his confidence back a bit.

Finally, the third seamer. Jordan has been very much hit-and-miss so far in this series (I actually think Stokes has bowled pretty well with no luck from what I've watched), and for me bowls a few too many loose deliveries. Balanced against that is the fact that he does pick up wickets, his excellent fielding (particularly his ability at slip to the spinner, not to be underestimated), and his useful runs. I still think at this time Woakes is probably a better bet (similar ability with the bat, maybe even better, though you do lose Jordan's fielding).

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Gerry SA on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:18 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Plenty of positives for England so far: Cook seems to be getting some form back (5 fifties in his last 8 innings - nothing to sniff at), Ballance continues to look fully at home at 3, Bell scored a century in the first game, and Root - in the form of his life - has found his best position at 5. Stokes and Buttler scored a few runs in the previous Test too. Broad and Anderson are both bowling well too, Anderson in particular seems happier able to simply focus on his bowling, with pressure of the record off.
Are you for real? Cook might have 5 fifties but they where scored against the hopeless Indians and the equally terrible West Indies. Boult/Southee and Johnson/Harris will embarrass him.

Gary Ballance has feasted on the terrible attacks Sri Lanka, India and West Indies have served up. Need I remind you the only Test Ballance has played against a world class attack(Sydney vs AUS) he was exposed.

Joe Root has again feasted on the same rubbish attacks Ballance has thrived against. Again both New Zealand and Australia have already exposed Root.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:31 pm

Gerry talking his usual biased garbage.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Gerry SA on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:38 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Gerry talking his usual biased garbage.
Root averages 30s against NZ and AUS. He's boosted his average against SL(86), IND(101) and WI(162)

Ballance was a walking wicket in Sydney, he scored 18 and 7. He has since boosted his average against SL(67), IND(71) and WI(96).

It this clear enough for you?

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Gerry SA on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:40 pm

And need I remind you Joe Root is an opener, but after Johnson and co ripped him a new one in the 2013/14 Ashes, he like most cowards do ran off and hid down at #5 because he didn't have the ability to be an opener any longer.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:51 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Gerry talking his usual biased garbage.
Root averages 30s against NZ and AUS. He's boosted his average against SL(86), IND(101) and WI(162)

Ballance was a walking wicket in Sydney, he scored 18 and 7. He has since boosted his average against SL(67), IND(71) and WI(96).

It this clear enough for you?

Interesting that you'd rather base your opinion of a player on one game (his debut where he has carried the drinks for two months straight in a 5-0 series defeat) than the subsequent ones. Almost like you're on the wind up or something....
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Gerry SA on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 12:04 am

Olly wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Gerry talking his usual biased garbage.
Root averages 30s against NZ and AUS. He's boosted his average against SL(86), IND(101) and WI(162)

Ballance was a walking wicket in Sydney, he scored 18 and 7. He has since boosted his average against SL(67), IND(71) and WI(96).

It this clear enough for you?

Interesting that you'd rather base your opinion of a player on one game (his debut where he has carried the drinks for two months straight in a 5-0 series defeat) than the subsequent ones. Almost like you're on the wind up or something....
Funny that you chose to defend Ballance, yet didn't argue about Root being mentally weak.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 12:07 am

The delicious irony of a keyboard warrior calling someone else 'mentally weak'. Laugh

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 12:12 am

Gerry SA wrote:And need I remind you Joe Root is an opener, but after Johnson and co ripped him a new one in the 2013/14 Ashes, he like most cowards do ran off and hid down at #5 because he didn't have the ability to be an opener any longer.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by VTR on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 7:49 am

You know England have won a match when that utter twonk Gerry SA rears its ugly head on here.

Nice to get a win, not very convincing at times, but a good turnaround from a frustrating 4th day

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 8:36 am

Gerry SA wrote:
Olly wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Gerry talking his usual biased garbage.
Root averages 30s against NZ and AUS. He's boosted his average against SL(86), IND(101) and WI(162)

Ballance was a walking wicket in Sydney, he scored 18 and 7. He has since boosted his average against SL(67), IND(71) and WI(96).

It this clear enough for you?

Interesting that you'd rather base your opinion of a player on one game (his debut where he has carried the drinks for two months straight in a 5-0 series defeat) than the subsequent ones. Almost like you're on the wind up or something....
Funny that you chose to defend Ballance, yet didn't argue about Root being mentally weak.

Batsman in averaging lower against the better teams/better bowlers shocker!

What a world
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 9:01 am

Yeah that Bradman bloke: averaged ten runs lower against England than his career average, such a flat track bully.

I know one shouldn't feed the troll, but as regards the "opening vs n5" debate, here's a fun comparison
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/44936.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/303669.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

De Villiers of course also started his career as an opener, against England actually. He averages 36 or so when opening the batting, which is roughly the same as Root, who averages 37.66. Can we therefore conclude that AB is a "coward who ran off and hid at n5"?

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 11:36 am

I do not expect Moores to change the team but feel we do need to shake things up for the 3rd test.

Not sure there is a great deal of point in changing the top 5. Trott is not the answer at 2, but despite being a Yorkshire fan, not sure Lyth is either.

My changes however would be in the bowling. I would like to see us play either Stokes or Ali as the all-rounder at 6 depending on if we want a 4th seamer or as second spinner with Buttler at 7. Chris Jordan is not good enough to be the 3rd seamer so would like to take a look at Wood. Then, assuming Moores has not destroyed Rashid's confidence, woudl like to see him play and bat at 8.




As to Root and Ballance. Wow judging a guy on a single test, his debut, when his team were being thrashed seems rather dumb. Ballance will not maintain his current average, but we will know more at the end of the year. Certainly so far he has shown he has the temperament and unlike some othre southern african anglos did not refuse to bat at first wicket down.

As to Root, not sure he needs any defending - all i can say is Viv Richards reckons he is something special.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 1:27 pm

LondonTiger wrote:

... Then, assuming Moores has not destroyed Rashid's confidence, woudl like to see him play and bat at 8.

...

LondonTiger - what has Moores done that might have destroyed Rashid's confidence?

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 1:38 pm

The England attack lacks variety for sure. Anderson, Broad, Jordan and Stokes are hit the deck seamers - much of the same ilk really and you have all-rounder and spinner Ali. They need something different for me and Hussain says the same. Now England are 1-0 up in the series and have been in no danger of losing either of those matches so can't see that changing for the Third Test. Time to have a look at options available to them? Why not? Trott as opener there are big question marks over and I'd bring Lyth in to see what he has to offer and would maybe look at another bowling option to give a little variety - either Rashid or Wood for maybe Jordan.
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Gerry SA on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 10:44 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Yeah that Bradman bloke: averaged ten runs lower against England than his career average, such a flat track bully.

I know one shouldn't feed the troll, but as regards the "opening vs n5" debate, here's a fun comparison
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/44936.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/303669.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

De Villiers of course also started his career as an opener, against England actually. He averages 36 or so when opening the batting, which is roughly the same as Root, who averages 37.66. Can we therefore conclude that AB is a "coward who ran off and hid at n5"?
You mean AB de Villiers whom had never opened in his professional career(prior to doing so in Test cricket)? Unlike Joe Root whom had always been an opener?

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 11:23 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:Yeah that Bradman bloke: averaged ten runs lower against England than his career average, such a flat track bully.

I know one shouldn't feed the troll, but as regards the "opening vs n5" debate, here's a fun comparison
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/44936.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/303669.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

De Villiers of course also started his career as an opener, against England actually. He averages 36 or so when opening the batting, which is roughly the same as Root, who averages 37.66. Can we therefore conclude that AB is a "coward who ran off and hid at n5"?
You mean AB de Villiers whom had never opened in his professional career(prior to doing so in Test cricket)? Unlike Joe Root whom had always been an opener?

Gerry SA I do think you need to open your eyes a bit here. You don't rate him but Viv Richards certainly does as do Sir Ian Botham, Ian Bishop and all pundits I have listened to. Also the Aussies picked him out to sledge. Why? That alone says how much they rate him? Mental midget? Sorry but he has scored centuries even against the Aussies and has made a half century in his last six test matches averages over 50 and has multiple test centuries and he is only going to get better since he is in his early 20s. Give it up eh?
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Gerry SA on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 11:29 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:Yeah that Bradman bloke: averaged ten runs lower against England than his career average, such a flat track bully.

I know one shouldn't feed the troll, but as regards the "opening vs n5" debate, here's a fun comparison
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/44936.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/303669.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

De Villiers of course also started his career as an opener, against England actually. He averages 36 or so when opening the batting, which is roughly the same as Root, who averages 37.66. Can we therefore conclude that AB is a "coward who ran off and hid at n5"?
You mean AB de Villiers whom had never opened in his professional career(prior to doing so in Test cricket)? Unlike Joe Root whom had always been an opener?

Gerry SA I do think you need to open your eyes a bit here. You don't rate him but Viv Richards certainly does as do Sir Ian Botham, Ian Bishop and all pundits I have listened to. Also the Aussies picked him out to sledge. Why? That alone says how much they rate him? Mental midget? Sorry but he has scored centuries even against the Aussies and has made a half century in his last six test matches averages over 50 and has multiple test centuries and he is only going to get better since he is in his early 20s. Give it up eh?
Jonathan Trott averaged 50/60 after his first 20 odd Tests, look at him now. Joe Root is average and has feasted on the dross SL, IND and WI attacks. After the 7 home Tests this summer, Root will be exposed again.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 11:44 pm

Ah right all cricket legends with around 60 years of cricket experience are mistaken and you with a chip the size of Australia on your shoulder know better than them?
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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Gerry SA on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 11:47 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Ah right all cricket legends with around 60 years of cricket experience are mistaken and you with a chip the size of Australia on your shoulder know better than them?
And the Scottish know what about cricket? Ah yes diddly. Jog on.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

Post by Duty281 on Mon 27 Apr 2015, 12:07 am

Gerry SA wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:Yeah that Bradman bloke: averaged ten runs lower against England than his career average, such a flat track bully.

I know one shouldn't feed the troll, but as regards the "opening vs n5" debate, here's a fun comparison
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/44936.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/303669.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

De Villiers of course also started his career as an opener, against England actually. He averages 36 or so when opening the batting, which is roughly the same as Root, who averages 37.66. Can we therefore conclude that AB is a "coward who ran off and hid at n5"?
You mean AB de Villiers whom had never opened in his professional career(prior to doing so in Test cricket)? Unlike Joe Root whom had always been an opener?

Laugh

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/415611.html

AB De Villiers' first-class debut...opening the batting!

What does Gerry know about cricket? Ah yes, diddly.

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Re: West Indies vs England 2nd Test - Greneda (Apr 21st-25th)

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