Zahi Hawass storms out of debate against Graham Hancock

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Post by kingraf on Thu 23 Apr 2015, 5:18 pm

Don't know how many fans of Ancient Egypt history there are on here (I'd venture not much except OneTwo - just a hunch Very Happy ). The video is grainy and the sound quality is poor...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ziu2ygE_Wc&rel=0&feature=youtu.be

For more than a year the encounter that took
place at the Mena House Hotel, Giza Egypt, on
22 April 2015 between famed Egyptologist Dr
Zahi Hawass and controversial alternative
historian Graham Hancock, had been billed
as"the first open debate between the
representatives of two completely different
versions of history." On the night of the event,
however, as Graham Hancock was focussing his
slides prior to giving his opening presentation,
and before most of the audience had even
entered the room, Dr Hawass saw that one slide
contained a photograph of Hancock’s colleague
Robert Bauval, originator of the Orion correlation
theory with whom Dr Hawass has had
disagreements for many years. Dr Hawass
immediately became furiously angry and began
to shout at Hancock and at Hancock’s wife
Santha (Santha is wearing the white dress in the
video). Hawass demanded that Hancock censor
his talk to remove all references to Robert
Bauval and the Orion correlation theory. When
Hancock explained that the alternative view of
history that he was on stage to represent could
not exclude the Orion correlation and therefore
could not exclude Robert Bauval, Dr Hawass,
again shouting, marched out of the debating
room. One member of the audience who was
present managed to record part of Dr Hawass’s
meltdown which is the subject of this video.
Meanwhile, as the audience began to arrive,
frantic negotiations took place off stage between
the conference organisers and Dr Hawass.
Finally Dr Hawass agreed to return and give his
talk and answer questions from the audience,
but he refused absolutely to hear or see
Hancock’s talk, or to engage in any debate with
Hancock. Hancock therefore gave his talk to the
audience without Dr Hawass present (Dr Hawass
sat in a room outside the conference hall while
Hancock spoke). When Hancock had finished he
answered questions from the audience. Then Dr
Hawass entered, gave his talk, answered
questions from the audience and left. During Dr
Hawass’s Q&A he was asked a question about
the 11,600-year-old megalithic site of Gobekli
Tepe in Turkey and whether it had any impact on
his assessment of the disputed age of the
megalithic Great Sphinx of Giza (which Hancock
and others have theorised may be of similar
antiquity). Unfortunately it appeared that Dr
Hawass was completely ignorant of the
existence or implications of Gobekli Tepe so he
was unable to answer the question, which he
passed on to the moderator who also happened
to be an Egyptologist and whose knowledge of
Gobekli Tepe was also clearly incomplete (for
example the moderator stated that Gobekli Tepe
dates from the “late eleventh millennium BC
through the tenth millennium BC” whereas in
fact the dates presently established for Gobekli
Tepe are from 9600 BC through 8200 BC, i.e.
from 11,600 years ago to 10,200 years ago).
Hancock did at that point have a brief
opportunity to stand up and give his own point of
view on Gobekli Tepe and on its implications for
the age of the Sphinx, and we will post that
exchange shortly.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 27 Apr 2015, 9:53 am

Is there some sort of conspiracy theory attached to this......?

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Post by kingraf on Mon 27 Apr 2015, 10:00 am

Depends, I suppose, on your definition of conspiracy. I was looking forward to the debate. Mainly because mainstream Egyptologists have a few grey areas they'd rather not visit (and Egyptian government would rather not visit for financial reasons). I was, I suppose interested to see where a middle ground could be found betwixt mainstream and fringe conspiracy.
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Post by incontinentia on Mon 27 Apr 2015, 2:00 pm

Dr. Hawass: "I think you're crazy"
Graham Hancock: "I want a second opinion!"
Dr. Hawass: "You're also lazy!"
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Post by kingraf on Mon 27 Apr 2015, 3:18 pm

Don't like Hawass much. Don't like mainstream Egyptology much either though. Reckon they probably are hiding... stuff. They could at the very least scrape away at the Great Pyramid to prove once and for all that it was the work of Khufu. Would a bit of damage be done to the pyramid? Yes, but miniscule, and would put a rather far fetched theory away. If it does prove the Pyramid is in fact 20 000 years old, so what? Makes civilisation a few millennia older, and the pyramid they much more impressive. No loss. Except the Egyptians tourism machine who try sell the dream that it's the ancestors of modern Égyptians who built the great work.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 27 Apr 2015, 3:36 pm

I thought he was a pakistani cricketer..

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Mon 04 May 2015, 3:00 pm

Hawass is a disgrace and a a puppet of the government. Nothing but a stooge.

There is a cover up surrounding this whole situation. The cover up by mainstream Eygptologists like Hawass is that ancient Eygpt WAS a BLACK CIVILIZATION from the start. When Alexander the great invaded the leadership was mixed with Greek but for thousands of years before that the make up of that civilization was Black. What we would call black African today.

In ancient times there was no North Africa or Africa for that matter but Egypt as we know is located in Africa. The Egyptians themselves never called themselves Egyptians which is a word derived from a Greek root. They called themselves Khemet which means land of the blacks the word itself derives from the word ham which you can find in the bible referring to 1 of Noah's 3 sons who survived the flood HAM.

In the bible, which is a historical document if nothing else, it clearly states that Ham settled in Mizraim, Cush, and was the father of those people. Mizraim was the name given to describe the land of Egypt Cush is Ethiopia so its quite clear HAM and his descendents were BLACK. They were not middle eastern or tanned and most def were not white.

Why is this important you ask? Well it has far reaching implications on the world before and today. You see the ancient Egyptians were a black race. The was NO arabs there at that time ruling Egypt so when the Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews it begs the question. Were the Egyptians a black race enslaving the white Hebrew race? Well the answer is clear. The Hebrews were the descendents of Noah's other son SHEM who settled in what we call the middle east today. From the land of Cannon to Iraq and these people were also BLACK. They looked the same as the Hamatic tribes in what we call Africa today but they were of another tribe. Not hard to understand just visit Africa and you will see a whole continent of different tribes. They have different cultures and speak in different dialects but they look for the most part the same.

This fact has been covered up by the mainstream Egyptologists because it would suggest that the original chosen Hebrews were Black and not of Eastern European descent that we have today.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 05 May 2015, 12:56 pm

Conspiracy theory AND race card in one post, bravo sir clap Laugh

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Post by kingraf on Tue 05 May 2015, 4:32 pm

To be fair (to me), me and OneTwo are DEFINITELY not proposing the same thing!!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 05 May 2015, 4:58 pm

Been to Egypt.......Brilliant structures If a tad too hot...The sphinx and Abu simbel are truly incredible spectacles.......Only thing holding it back was the number of begging children......

Wouldn't go back..............

Never been that interested in foreign policy unless we are bombing somebody...

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Post by profitius on Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:47 am

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Hawass is a disgrace and a a puppet of the government. Nothing but a stooge.

There is a cover up surrounding this whole situation. The cover up by mainstream Eygptologists like Hawass is that ancient Eygpt WAS a BLACK CIVILIZATION from the start. When Alexander the great invaded the leadership was mixed with Greek but for thousands of years before that the make up of that civilization was Black. What we would call black African today.

In ancient times there was no North Africa or Africa for that matter but Egypt as we know is located in Africa. The Egyptians themselves never called themselves Egyptians which is a word derived from a Greek root. They called themselves Khemet which means land of the blacks the word itself derives from the word ham which you can find in the bible referring to 1 of Noah's 3 sons who survived the flood HAM.

In the bible, which is a historical document if nothing else, it clearly states that Ham settled in Mizraim, Cush, and was the father of those people. Mizraim was the name given to describe the land of Egypt Cush is Ethiopia so its quite clear HAM and his descendents were BLACK. They were not middle eastern or tanned and most def were not white.

Why is this important you ask? Well it has far reaching implications on the world before and today. You see the ancient Egyptians were a black race. The was NO arabs there at that time ruling Egypt so when the Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews it begs the question. Were the Egyptians a black race enslaving the white Hebrew race? Well the answer is clear. The Hebrews were the descendents of Noah's other son SHEM who settled in what we call the middle east today. From the land of Cannon to Iraq and these people were also BLACK. They looked the same as the Hamatic tribes in what we call Africa today but they were of another tribe. Not hard to understand just visit Africa and you will see a whole continent of different tribes. They have different cultures and speak in different dialects but they look for the most part the same.

This fact has been covered up by the mainstream Egyptologists because it would suggest that the original chosen Hebrews were Black and not of Eastern European descent that we have today.


I doubt it. A more believable theory is that the original builders came from Europe. Tutankhamun had west European DNA and they found mummies with red hair. Remember at this time there were megaliths all over Europe so they knew how to build things. The Berbers of north Africa were also of European descent. Zinadine Zidane being an example.


Another theory is the ancient alien theory. Its been said that the Egyptian civilisation was more advanced in its earlier days and they seemed to lose the knowledge as time went on.


Either way I'd agree that they are covering up something there. A German team used ground sonar to fin that there are rooms beneath the sphinx. Hawass denies this but you can be sure its after been checked out by the Egyptians.
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Post by kingraf on Fri 24 Jul 2015, 6:56 am

I'm not overly concerned about the race of the Egyptians. It's a non starter. I do know that Ramses had red hair, but to my knowledge an actual "race" for the Egyptians is hard to ascertain.

Nonetheless, though. I'm more interested in the historical significance. If the Sphinx could be established as being 20 000 years old, that would be a reasonably large shift in the thinking attached to Egypt, and by extension, ancient history. Like I said to a mate of mine a couple weeks ago, if you mapped out the progress of Egyptians it would basically be an immediate jump from mud huts and such to Pyramids and giant obelisks in a the time it takes one to finish a a particularly large dinner.
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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Mon 17 Aug 2015, 7:45 am

profitius wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Hawass is a disgrace and a a puppet of the government. Nothing but a stooge.

There is a cover up surrounding this whole situation. The cover up by mainstream Eygptologists like Hawass is that ancient Eygpt WAS a BLACK CIVILIZATION from the start. When Alexander the great invaded the leadership was mixed with Greek but for thousands of years before that the make up of that civilization was Black. What we would call black African today.

In ancient times there was no North Africa or Africa for that matter but Egypt as we know is located in Africa. The Egyptians themselves never called themselves Egyptians which is a word derived from a Greek root. They called themselves Khemet which means land of the blacks the word itself derives from the word ham which you can find in the bible referring to 1 of Noah's 3 sons who survived the flood HAM.

In the bible, which is a historical document if nothing else, it clearly states that Ham settled in Mizraim, Cush, and was the father of those people. Mizraim was the name given to describe the land of Egypt Cush is Ethiopia so its quite clear HAM and his descendents were BLACK. They were not middle eastern or tanned and most def were not white.

Why is this important you ask? Well it has far reaching implications on the world before and today. You see the ancient Egyptians were a black race. The was NO arabs there at that time ruling Egypt so when the Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews it begs the question. Were the Egyptians a black race enslaving the white Hebrew race? Well the answer is clear. The Hebrews were the descendents of Noah's other son SHEM who settled in what we call the middle east today. From the land of Cannon to Iraq and these people were also BLACK. They looked the same as the Hamatic tribes in what we call Africa today but they were of another tribe. Not hard to understand just visit Africa and you will see a whole continent of different tribes. They have different cultures and speak in different dialects but they look for the most part the same.

This fact has been covered up by the mainstream Egyptologists because it would suggest that the original chosen Hebrews were Black and not of Eastern European descent that we have today.


I doubt it. A more believable theory is that the original builders came from Europe. Tutankhamun had west European DNA and they found mummies with red hair. Remember at this time there were megaliths all over Europe so they knew how to build things. The Berbers of north Africa were also of European descent. Zinadine Zidane being an example.


Another theory is the ancient alien theory. Its been said that the Egyptian civilisation was more advanced in its earlier days and they seemed to lose the knowledge as time went on.


Either way I'd agree that they are covering up something there. A German team used ground sonar to fin that there are rooms beneath the sphinx. Hawass denies this but you can be sure its after been checked out by the Egyptians.

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.

Lets clear something up Eygpt is in what we called Africa today. Anciant sources from the Greeks to the Romans described the Eygptians as ethiopians, or Cushites which is ancient Ethiopia.

The first king who united the lower kingdom (Nubia) and the Northern kingdom (Eygpt) was Menes who just happened to be BLACK. All of ancient Eygpt was a black African civilization up until Alex the great conquered them. Your Euro-centric madness is laughable.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 17 Aug 2015, 9:09 am

Shocked
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 17 Aug 2015, 10:08 am

LOL

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Post by profitius on Thu 20 Aug 2015, 5:44 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
profitius wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Hawass is a disgrace and a a puppet of the government. Nothing but a stooge.

There is a cover up surrounding this whole situation. The cover up by mainstream Eygptologists like Hawass is that ancient Eygpt WAS a BLACK CIVILIZATION from the start. When Alexander the great invaded the leadership was mixed with Greek but for thousands of years before that the make up of that civilization was Black. What we would call black African today.

In ancient times there was no North Africa or Africa for that matter but Egypt as we know is located in Africa. The Egyptians themselves never called themselves Egyptians which is a word derived from a Greek root. They called themselves Khemet which means land of the blacks the word itself derives from the word ham which you can find in the bible referring to 1 of Noah's 3 sons who survived the flood HAM.

In the bible, which is a historical document if nothing else, it clearly states that Ham settled in Mizraim, Cush, and was the father of those people. Mizraim was the name given to describe the land of Egypt Cush is Ethiopia so its quite clear HAM and his descendents were BLACK. They were not middle eastern or tanned and most def were not white.

Why is this important you ask? Well it has far reaching implications on the world before and today. You see the ancient Egyptians were a black race. The was NO arabs there at that time ruling Egypt so when the Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews it begs the question. Were the Egyptians a black race enslaving the white Hebrew race? Well the answer is clear. The Hebrews were the descendents of Noah's other son SHEM who settled in what we call the middle east today. From the land of Cannon to Iraq and these people were also BLACK. They looked the same as the Hamatic tribes in what we call Africa today but they were of another tribe. Not hard to understand just visit Africa and you will see a whole continent of different tribes. They have different cultures and speak in different dialects but they look for the most part the same.

This fact has been covered up by the mainstream Egyptologists because it would suggest that the original chosen Hebrews were Black and not of Eastern European descent that we have today.


I doubt it. A more believable theory is that the original builders came from Europe. Tutankhamun had west European DNA and they found mummies with red hair. Remember at this time there were megaliths all over Europe so they knew how to build things. The Berbers of north Africa were also of European descent. Zinadine Zidane being an example.


Another theory is the ancient alien theory. Its been said that the Egyptian civilisation was more advanced in its earlier days and they seemed to lose the knowledge as time went on.


Either way I'd agree that they are covering up something there. A German team used ground sonar to fin that there are rooms beneath the sphinx. Hawass denies this but you can be sure its after been checked out by the Egyptians.

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.

Lets clear something up Eygpt is in what we called Africa today. Anciant sources from the Greeks to the Romans described the Eygptians as ethiopians, or Cushites which is ancient Ethiopia.

The first king who united the lower kingdom (Nubia) and the Northern kingdom (Eygpt) was Menes who just happened to be BLACK. All of ancient Eygpt was a black African civilization up until Alex the great conquered them. Your Euro-centric madness is laughable.


You're ignoring the evidence. The Romans described Celts as Germans because they lived past a certain boundary so you can't read too much what they called foreigners.


Whats more, look at the size of Africa. Don't you think its a coincidence that the pyramids are near Europe and the middle east and not far from the mediterranean? And seeing as there were megalithic building happening all over Europe long before the pyramids, doesn't it seem more likely that those builders came from there or the middle east rather than Africa? Add in the DNA results and bingo, there you have it.
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Post by kingraf on Thu 20 Aug 2015, 6:08 pm

Circumstantial evidence Profiti. The Egyptians didn't build the Mayan pyramid just because theirs was around longer.

Given the fact that Ethiopia, quite literally means charred skin, I think there'd be reasonable cause to suspect the Egyptians would then have had darker than European skin.

But again, it really is a non starter. All we really have is hair colour, and there are quite a few dark people with fair hair. Even mine was a disgusting hue of Reddish brown until I was about four. Made my baby pictures a source of great embarrassment. Moreover the megaliths in Western Europe don't come close in size, splendour and sheer how the f*ck did they do that of the great pyramids. Tut having European DNA is more intriguing, but I assume he would have also had African DNA. The reality is the Ancients mingled freely, as long as they shared the same flag. It's difficult to use DNA as an argument for that reason. For that reason, I'm of the opinion that the ancient Egyptians were not white. Probably not black. Probably not Middle Eastern. Probably a mix, which explains why sculptures/Statues of the same lineage seems to be so different. Darker skin, lighter skin. Straighter nose, wider. etc.
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