How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

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How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Adam D on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:38 am

http://v2wrestling.com/5/post/2015/04/how-the-v2-wrestling-podcast-crippled-me.html

by Chris Wilkerson

Sometimes a headline is all you need to sucker an audience in. No, my legs are fine, and my head was screwed up a long time before I joined what was then a two man crew of Dixie Carter and Gavin Duenas. 

However, whilst the mind and body are generally in about as much working order as they were before I joined the podcast team, my view on wrestling has been shifted by a force equally as dark as Darth Sidious. 

That's right, I wasn't crippled, I was Crippled. Gavin Duenas, (aka 606v2's CrippledTart), achieved with me what Kane could not with John Cena. For I have no Hustle, Loyalty nor Respect as my creed. I gave up. I embraced the hate. (I'd like to add that in this context Adam was definitely the Zack Ryder, helplessly thrown off the stage in a wheelchair. A situation we like to call "TNA").

I have always been a fairly analytical soul, and since returning to wrestling fandom after WrestleMania 27 (if that can bring me back into wrestling then the only way was up) I became far more interested in the why and how over the woo and wow. 

After volunteering myself to join the newly formed v2 Wrestling Podcast I was given the chance to pit my opinions against the childlike idiocy of Mr Davey and the back-catalogue of knowledge and cynicism possessed by Mr Duenas. I embraced TNA, I discussed pushes and plot-lines, I quickly dismissed TNA. This was the path any sane man would take when faced with 90 minutes of wrestling chatter every week. 

And generally I kept my positivity. But I should have seen the change. Instead of a wrestling product where characters could be enjoyed I quickly became entrapped in belittling TNA. I struggled to see the positives. Granted, they were often hidden under layers of nonsense, but if Adam could see them why couldn't I? 

But this was ok. It was fine. I managed to long stay the course with the Daniel Bryan story and the Yes! Movement. As Hero and Paul joined us and the fight against Gavin's negativity stayed true I remained happy with WWE. Sure, there were problems, but there were wonderful moments too. WWE had once given me a year of CM Punk as champion, a year in which every Raw was worth watching just to see the greatest "Sports Entertainer" of this generation go to work. It was the plight of this man that put the real first crack in my armour.

With CM Punk leaving WWE, so left the best thing on their broadcasts. 

The year before I had seen my current favourite star, Mr Punk, and my all time favourite The Undertaker go one on one at WrestleMania. The whole week was incredible, but that night in the MetLife Stadium was a childhood dream realised. 

The year after I would sit back to watch WrestleMania on TV and not only would there be no CM Punk at the biggest WrestleMania of all time, but my hero was finally defeated on the grandest stage. 21-1. When you're fighting the good fight there are always things that will break your spirit. To go back to Star Wars references, Darth Vader was actually Gavin and I was now fighting against the real chance that I was his wrestling son. Yes, ladies and (predominantly, if not entirely) gentlemen: I am claiming to be Luke Skywalker. 

From there the dark side inside me grew. However, it manifested itself differently within me than it did in the old grumpus Gavin Duenas. I was beginning to really change, but I could see the light where he saw dark. 

In many ways, I think being too young to have really felt the death of WCW is what saved me. Gavin couldn't avoid the death tolls of WCW and the actions of modern day WWE. I had no fear, I hadn't seen that, the paranoia (justified or otherwise) was not on my shoulders. 

But how we both remained the same is that we both lost touch with the WWE audience. 

I am sure Gavin would have problem with me outing (no, that's Hero) his reasons for his absence on the v2 Wrestling Podcast. He simply is not enjoying the product, but whereas before he still felt a connection with WWE audiences, he now no longer does. People really embraced a good WrestleMania 31, but the Tart couldn't. Already struggling to analyse a programme he felt detached to, now realising he didn't enjoy a much heralded show was a sign to him that he could no longer be a voice on wrestling (to however small an audience).

This guy writing this, Luke Skywalker, he went the other way, yet arrived at the same conclusion. 

I had constantly fought the corner of WWE in insisting WrestleMania had been built to deliver what it subsequently did. Especially the logic and the motives behind each feud. Whilst Orton and Rollins in particular got very messy, I was fine with this to some extent because they had built the platform and laid the path a long way before pulling the trigger. Sting/HHH had got me interested, Cena/Rusev was nigh-on perfect and the Intercontinental Title match was actually entirely focused on the Intercontinental Title. 

In reality it was my support for Roman Reigns that saw me lose faith in WWE. Not in the company, which for all its flaws delivers a lot of good stuff too, but the fans.

For those who boo, whether literally or just metaphorically, Roman Reigns: I am not one of you. A young man, of many talents, was pushed to the main event at WrestleMania. And the fans booed him. Did it matter the impact it might have on Reigns' career? Nope. 

And I didn't really get it. Sure, he was pushed by "the machine", but so are most wrestlers. Sure, he wasn't the finished product, but a lot of wrestlers don't get there before they get the main event. He hadn't wrestled many long matches, but when he did he got no credit for it anyway. Daniel Bryan (who couldn't get a good match out of Bray Wyatt, by the way) carried Reigns every step of the way in the eyes of some.

Here, my mind was analysing what I saw in the same way I had done for about two years of podcasts and it didn't fit for me.

WWE fans today don't like anyone who doesn't get a bit mistreated. WWE fans love NXT because it isn't Raw. Both of those things are uncomfortable to me. NXT has many flaws and there are many reasons it achieves in areas Raw doesn't. These things appear to be ignored. Like Punk and Bryan before them, NXT stars are great in spite of WWE, not because of them. 

NXT is a cracking show. But I got Crippled. I watch the matches and see the spot monkeys, see the jumps and the dives, and I see nothing of significance. The best match NXT has had saw Kevin Owens beat the hell out of Sami Zayn. It wasn't glamorous or death defying, it was brutal. But the stuff he did mattered. No one jumping over the top rope to the outside makes any sort of impact in an NXT environment. They all do it, all the time, every match. 

And this is where it's got me. I would never have seen that before. I would never have seen the WWE audience reaction to Reigns before and been so frustrated. I'd have never had to argue that a WrestleMania card would succeed. Because now I've had my perspective changed I am no longer in touch with the WWE fanhood. The attitude of rebellion against a product you choose to watch. The awe over NXT. The dismissal of anyone you think WWE might want you to like. I don't really understand a fanbase that to me seems happier with the crap being served since WrestleMania than the joy of WrestleMania itself. 

I have 11 weeks of sabbatical from the v2 Wrestling Podcast left. I needed it. I had come to hate talking wrestling because I hated wrestling fans. Hopefully, a break and change will help me understand wrestling again. But until then, I think I've been Crippled.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Crimey on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:56 am

Luckily for me I was already very cynical before entering the V2 Wrestling Podcast, indeed I'd say my main enjoyment right now out of wrestling is actually doing the podcast and writing on here and being able to say how awful it was. If this place didn't exist and in particular if I wasn't doing the podcast, I certainly wouldn't be watching right now.

I think rather than being Crippled by the podcast, Gavin or the fans. You've been crippled by the product, by people opening your eyes to how terrible it currently is. It's akin to a child discovering Santa Claus isn't real, the magic is gone. Wrestling has had its gut opened up and its entrails spilled out and it no longer looks as appetizing.

I also hated the way that the fans treated Roman Reigns, but I didn't think that was the main problem at all, I think Wrestlemania could still have been booked so much better keeping Reigns in the same spot. The build up to it was truly horrible. 

I also think Wrestlemania 29 was much better for you because it was live, I think for a lot watching at home it was one of the weakest Wrestlemanias. I love CM Punk and the Undertaker but I thought there was match wasn't amazing as I thought. They weren't helped by really shoddy booking before hand but I thought that was one of the first signs that Undertaker wasn't up to it and that CM Punk was tired and jaded.

I would agree that my interest has definitely gone totally down with the departure of CM Punk, Wrestlemania 30 was fantastic but the build up was only okay and afterwards WWE really dropped the ball. Brock Lesnar and Paul Heyman are the only things worth seeing in WWE right now and they're barely on. That's the only time I feel like there is something to miss, is if they're on. Raw last week could be the exact same as a Raw six months previous or six months in the future.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Prometheus on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 10:27 am

So, the way I read the article is that Chris is to a large degree motivated by the big picture and long term than the here and now.

And you know, that's fine. But I feel it becomes a bit of a stretch if you want to imply that the fans are wrong.

The two points in the article I'd take most issue with are:

1) Fans were wrong to not get behind Reigns.
I think that to a degree there is a lot of over analysis of a simple situation. And maybe, that's just me because I'm a simple thinker and not so good at analysis. But Reigns wasn't at a point in his career where he was clicking with the fans. And I think then there was a lot of reasons thrown up for this, many of which are mentioned in the article. But to me its more of an instinctive thing. Do I, or do I not want to cheer this wrestler? Their music hits and am I on the edge of my seat waiting for their match, or am I sat with my finger hovering over the fast forward button?

Now, I'd have not booed Reigns. But, his wasn't a journey I was particularly interested in following through to Mania. I'm not even saying that I wanted to follow the Bryan story again, or anything. But it was to me. Oh Reigns, yeah well whatever.

And I'll be the first to admit there are wrestlers who WWE has backed and have won me over. So, I really get Chris's point that long term thinking is something the company should be doing and not relying on the armchair fans. But I also get that WWE has to sell its product and it needs the fans to be into the wrestlers they are pushing. If that magic is not there between the wrestler and the fans, you got to start again.

2) Spot monkeys
I was brought up with World of Sport wrestling. Which I think tends to get branded as mat wrestling or chain wrestling. There's not a lot of chain wrestling in WWE, partly because I think they prefer the brawling style and partly because I don't think a lot of their roster is capable. Anyway, I digress. My point would be that if someone climbed to the first rope and did an axe handle that was a big move, but I still loved wrestling.

I now watch NXT and LU where flippy flippy wrestlers are flying round the ring. I love both of these shows. I know that the spots are set up. I know that if two guys are staggering around outside the ring then one of the guys in the ring is gonna go over the top rope soon. And I still get up out of my seat when there's a plancha or corkscrew, etc. It's a big spot, I love it. Do, I get bored the whole match is this? Yes I do, but I also find Owens powerbombing Zayn for the 10th time edging towards boring. Somehow still captivating to watch, but there's a voice in my saying "not another powerbomb".

And I prefer NXT to Raw, just because its so much easier to watch. I don't have 3 hours to spend on Raw every week. I don't want to sit with my finger on the fast forward button not getting into the show. So 1 hour of NXT available on my iPad, to watch when I want works for me very well.

I think wrestling can be many things with many styles. I don't think that NXT is really doing much that WCW didn't do with their Cruiserweight division and TNA with their X-Division. Both of which really helped those shows popularity. But I'm an unashamed mark for the spot monkeys and I'm not going to see that as a flaw in me being a wrestling fan.
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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Samo on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 10:48 am

I would take an over the top rope move every match in a one hour NXT show than the current dross served up on a three hour RAW.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Crimey on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 10:53 am

I do totally agree with you on NXT, I think it's massively overrated and I feel like this is because fans see it as the alternative to WWE rather than it being a really good show itself. I get that it's easy to consume at an hour long, but it's not fantastic by any means. I think the wrestling on the show is not really much better than anything WWE produces at all. The matches on the standard NXT show are practically on the same level of the Raw ones including the formula of how the matches go and the PPV matches aren't as good as the top level PPV matches WWE produces. I think the going over the top rope is overdone in WWE as a whole but in NXT it's ridiculous. It's lost any impact.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Prometheus on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:34 am

My own ranking of wrestling weekly wrestling shows right now would be:
1) Lucha Underground. This is the only one I treat as must see TV and ensure I watch every week.
2) NXT. I'll watch most episodes. Not necessarily even on the week they are shown, but it is convenient to me to have them available via the Network. As I've cancelled the Network, I'll miss these, but if / when I re-subscribe I know I can catch up.
3) Raw. I'd watch most to all of the show once every month or so. And cherry pick matches from most weeks.
4) Impact. As I DVR the series, I'll tend to stick this on in the background and watch 20 minutes or so.
5) Smackdown. I don't think I've seen a single show in a couple of years.
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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 5:45 pm

Its not so much that WrestleMania 29 was amazing and life has gone downhill since there, but I got to experience WrestleMania live and that was a huge goal for me. And the Raw after Mania crowd is an experience in itself too, especially as my now favourite wrestler had probably the biggest moment of his career with that cash-in. The whole thing was a dream, really. Whereas Lesnar/HHH wasn't that good live, Punk/Taker was. It did something both men have proven very good at by capturing the live audience, something I don't think HHH can do any more.

Again, it isn't people opening my eyes, I knew a lot of it was crud when I started watching again. But now I can't connect with people who watch a product just to criticise it. There's hope for more, I know, they want it to be good, but some of the good is just ignored because it doesn't fit with the mindset now. I wouldn't say people were wrong, I just can't align myself with that.

Equally, its not that noticing the bad stuff bothers me. Its that I notice the bad in good things a lot more. I would never have cared about how many flips someone does and if it degrades the move. Or whether the power struggle between fan and booking was right or wrong. I wouldn't have cared that the NWO are full of HHH's friends as they entered to stop DX ruining Sting/HHH.

I wouldn't have cared that people enjoy NXT in a different way to Raw. Now I can't ignore it.

Prometheus wrote:
1) Fans were wrong to not get behind Reigns.
I think that to a degree there is a lot of over analysis of a simple situation.  And maybe, that's just me because I'm a simple thinker and not so good at analysis.  But Reigns wasn't at a point in his career where he was clicking with the fans.  And I think then there was a lot of reasons thrown up for this, many of which are mentioned in the article.  But to me its more of an instinctive thing.  Do I, or do I not want to cheer this wrestler?  Their music hits and am I on the edge of my seat waiting for their match, or am I sat with my finger hovering over the fast forward button?

I don't think people were wrong not to get behind him. I don't agree with some of their feelings, but thats opinion and not fact. So they aren't wrong. I do think basically attacking him to the point where even now, with less push and more patience to his build, people are really anti-Reigns is a bit unnecessary. I found the booing unnecessary if I'm honest. I'm not at one with the need to p*ss on things that you don't like straight away.

Kay Fabe, whilst I felt a little harsh, was right to question me for seeing people as right or wrong. I just don't agree with them about Reigns' ability. That's their choice, I just think the venom in some people has been unnecessary. To damage his growth and put spikes up against his potential is just a bit of a shame. Let things happen and see, to some extent, don't attack.

Prometheus wrote:
2) Spot monkeys
Do, I get bored the whole match is this?  Yes I do, but I also find Owens powerbombing Zayn for the 10th time edging towards boring.  Somehow still captivating to watch, but there's a voice in my saying "not another powerbomb".

That's the thing, before I might have agreed. But now I feel that every one of those powerbombs was a storytelling moment. I like spots, and the Lucha Dragons have done brilliantly so far in keeping variety in their spots and making them part of the match, not a circus, but if you go just a tiny step too far you ruin all the good work. Whereas Owens' match was perfect. He wasn't entertaining because why would he want to be? The fan wants him to do something different, he just wants to beat the hell out of his opponent, he played the heel without having to verbally insult the crowd or cheat.

Samo wrote:I would take an over the top rope move every match in a one hour NXT show than the current dross served up on a three hour RAW.

Not to be rude, Samo, but this is another problem I have. There is something competitive, almost territorial about NXT fans where they are not watching WWE but they are watching NXT. NXT delivers in many ways, but its flaws seem to be overlooked and to criticise it is to go against the NXT fans, not just to make points. This is what it feels like to me and is another reason I feel disconnected.

If anything, the only person I feel is wrong about these things is me. And i'm wrong because I seem unable to connect with WWE fans at the moment. I go on different sites and I can't understand the way people talk about wrestling. So, taking a step back makes sense. Gavin, the almighty hipster that he really wants to be, did it first but it made sense to me when we spoke about it. We have different reasons for this metaphorical separation from the fanbase, but if we're in the minority then we're probably the ones who are wrong.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Samo on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 6:05 pm

I know NXT isnt faultless, theres been plenty times where I've questioned the booking decisions. However, those are few and far between, and NXT has a good track record of delivering good payoffs.

I can give you an example of each end of the spectrum. Corbin vs Dempsey in a no DQ match should have been a brutal exhibition of two big dogs beating the hell out of each other. What did we get? A 4 minute match where the stipulation didnt come into play.

On the other hand we have Zayn vs Neville. Zayns year long quest to get to the NXT championship mirrored that of Jeff Hardy's year long odyssey. It was an intricate tale of a guy getting so close but no quite making it that turned Zayn into one of the companies best faces. The payoff match was nearly perfect, from the storytelling, to the in ring action.

When WWE is at the top of its game, its unbeatable, but I feel NXT delivers better stuff than the average RAW, more consistently.

Is NXT perfect? No. Does it have its flaws? Yes. Are they hidden because its only a one hour show? Possibly. Is NXT's best as good as WWE's best? Its close, but still no. Is the average NXT better than the average RAW? Im my opinion yes, unquestionably. If that makes me a territorial mark then I dont mind admiting it.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 6:08 pm

Thats fine, I agree with most of that and thank you for replying with an actual reply not offence. I often don't feel like I miss anything if I miss an NXT, and the same is true of Raw, but less so. Thats story wise, not entertainment value.

If there were a way to combine the strong elements of the two, and it be two hours long, I'd probably never miss a second.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Samo on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 6:15 pm

You also need to remember that NXT is still the developmental brand. Everyone there is still learning, or perfecting their craft. From the talent, to the commentators, interviewers, referees, writers, production crew, even Triple H is still learning to some degree. With that in mind I think the odd flaw here or there is more forgivable than on the main show, where the A Team is meant to be working.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 6:18 pm

Oh, I know all these things, its not that I think its bad I just can't align with the extreme hype it gets from some corners.

Kevin Owens is the best thing going down there, and arguably the best full time star WWE has. He's the first person I can think of in a while who I want to feud with everyone on the main roster. Theres no need to pick and choose, he could work with anyone.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Samo on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 7:02 pm

Have to agree with Owens. He's the most complete wrestler in WWE, possibly even in the world right now.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Prometheus on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:01 pm

I'd have him in my top 5 or 6. Right now for telling a story in the ring, and giving a hell of an entertaining match, I think 2 or even 3 of the New Japan guys are head and shoulders above the rest.

I think Zayn is tremendous too. The story with Neville was one of the best arcs in 2014. And I can't not have Brock in there, who puts on a masterclass when he steps through the ropes. Rusev I will stop the Raw fast forward to watch, huge potential there if Cena doesn't kill him. Rollins is IMO the WWE MVP at the moment.

Honourable mention...

I went back and watched a lot of Itami's stuff after he appeared in NXT and I found him disappointing compared to the hype he'd got. I've got to say that if he can get back to working like KENTA (and I think there are signs he is) then he could be really, really good. I'm so disappointed they didn't push through with a program against Big Show coming out of Mania.

And if Dean Ambrose was booked well, he's a natural successor to Pillman and Austin.
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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Crimey on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 1:48 am

I don't get the hype at all with Kevin Owens, I know it's perhaps unfair to compare, but considering his NXT run has been similar to Brock Lesnar, when you compare the two, Brock Lesnar is far away in terms of talent than Kevin Owens. I believe in Brock Lesnar's force, I don't believe in Kevin Owens.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 2:43 am

Owens sells himself so well. I think he probably thinks more about what he does in the ring than Lesnar too.

Lesnar is the best thing in wrestling, but Owens is full time. His promos are very good, hell he made me interested in Alex Riley, and his character is always gold. From facials to stances, he plays his part. The difference of course is that Lesnar has been billed and booked as a god, whereas Owens is more typical heel, yet blurs the lines better than anyone ive seen for a long time. He's acting like a bastard but his motives are also kind of understandable. And Owens has the more unique character. I buy into why he's like he is more than I do Lesnar. What he doesn't have is Lesnar's aura, but I'm not sure anyone ever has

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Samo on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:30 am

Brock Lesnar is an anomaly. Theres no one else I can think of thats had as relatively short a career as Lesnar has and can genuinely be mentioned as one of the greatest of all time and no one would question it.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by bretmeharty on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:19 am

Samo wrote:Brock Lesnar is an anomaly. Theres no one else I can think of thats had as relatively short a career as Lesnar has and can genuinely be mentioned as one of the greatest of all time and no one would question it.

Ultimate Warrior

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 3:46 pm

Ultimate Warrior is by far the most overrated wrestler in history

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Samo on Sat 25 Apr 2015, 5:39 pm

Agreed. Average in the ring and on the mic. Got over because of his intesity.

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Re: How the v2 Wrestling Podcast Crippled Me

Post by Adam D on Sun 26 Apr 2015, 7:41 am

I should just ban you all right now for those comments

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