West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

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West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 28 Apr 2015, 1:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

With England having taken an unexpected (at start of day) lead in Grenada we move to Bridgetown for the last match of the tour. Team selection will be interesting, though I do expect England to select the same team.

Good arguments can be made for giving Lyth a chance to open, while by and large the bowlers have not looked overly threatening. This is demonstrated by the four different centurions WI have had, plus some good late partnerships.

WI may well have Taylor back. Holder has been the least impressive of the Windies seam bowlers, but his batting will be valued. Bishoo bowled well, but had to bowl too many overs in Englands first innings due to lack of options. Perhaps Taylor could return for a batsmen. If so whom? Blackwood has a century, but also some brainless cricket, so the old man Chanderpaul could be the most vulnerable. It woudl be a shame if his career was to end like this - but Phil Simmons will not allow sympathy or emotion to drive his selections.

If the weather holds could be a fascinating clash.

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 6:56 pm

It has to be noted that even Kraigg Brathwaite, who isn't best known for his big hits, was scoring at over 70 strike rate. Think that is the only chance the West Indies have got, for me its England who have the advantage.......

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by alfie on Sun 03 May 2015, 6:57 pm

This is a weird game . Half hour back batting was looking ; well , not easy , but OK . Now runs are drying up ; pressure on every ball...

If Samuels and Bravo can settle , no doubt it will swing back...and just as I type Moeen relieves the pressure with a rotten short ball - gift of a boundary Crying or Very sad

England really won't want many more of those...

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:01 pm

Playing devil's advocate here but if this series ends up 1-1 and pressure starts building again for changes etc isn't it a concern that many posters here feel that there aren't any real decent replacements waiting in the wings? Windies 47 for 2.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:01 pm

Olly wrote:Ok I'm gonna be a bit of a spoil sport here about these slip catches Jordan takes

They have to be amazing because he stands so far out of position

That one goes straight into a normal first slip fielder...

Olly - one thing about Jordan at slip is that he reacts and adapts. Yes, some chances may have gone straight to ''a normal slip fielder'' but that same slip fielder wouldn't have got close to some that Jordan has taken off the slow bowlers. He's often operating as both a first and second slip. Also, how many chances has he spilled? That's the key question for any slip.

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by alfie on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:05 pm

msp83 wrote:It has to be noted that even Kraigg Brathwaite, who isn't best known for his big hits, was scoring at over 70 strike rate. Think that is the only chance the West Indies have got, for me its England who have the advantage.......

Very much agree West Indies need to be positive. If they score quickly England may well start to get rattled...

For England , they desperately need Moeen (and/or Root) , to bowl with control , so that Cook can rotate his seamers at one end . Dot ball pressure on the batsmen will be tough to resist , despite the fact that there are two more days left.

Still think this is very finely balanced.

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:06 pm

On the Jordan/Stokes/Woakes debate, I think Jordan is in the side very much as a bowler not really as an all-rounder, though he's a bowler who can bat a bit. Stokes is a proper all-rounder, and as Woakes' batting is sound at the basic level, he is also more of a bowling all-rounder than a bowler who can bat.
So, if Jordan has to stay in the side, then he has to take wickets. Or at least offer some control, that is something that sat well with England regimes in the past. Now Jordan has not been one who would usually keep the runs down. He goes for a few, doesn't take enough wickets, or at least hasn't taken enough wickets so far. His slip catching is good, although I do agree his positioning does contribute to the effect that he has on viewers...... And anyways, without consistent performances with the ball, he can't stay in the side. He'll have to produce something special this innings.
As for Stokes, he's a better bat than Woakes, and I think he's a better option as an all-condition bowler as well. In home conditions, Woakes might be a better bowler though. But Stokes is one who can be effective in different conditions, I really have my doubts about Woakes outside swinging conditions. So for me, Stokes would stay, and anyways, Woakes is not yet fit.......

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:11 pm

Time just doesn't matter in this game. Its the Rhythm of the innings that is the only consideration. When the ball is hard, the seamers will find life from the track, when it gets old then the spinners will come into the game more and even then the seamers would still be finding some thing from the track. So there is no way the batsman can just stay on survival mode and expect to get the rewards later on....... Just keep the board moving without being reckless....... And even if the West Indies batsmen go after the bowling, Cook shouldn't back down, should keep the field up a chance can come any time.......
But you can't bowl dreadful rubbish!!!!.

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:12 pm

It's great to say Jordan's been expensive, etc... But Stokes went at a great clip in the last test. Obviously isn't trusted enough to do damage on this deck (on after 40 overs yesterday? Nowt yet), and I'm really not convinced I believe in the hype surrounding his ability as an all rounder. The hundred against Australia was decent, but only in comparison to the rather one sided beatdown that was occurring. In isolation, it's a hundred in a losing effort by a guy picked to fill the role of a batsman. Not too many top seven batters would still have a shot with two scores above 50 in his first dozen odd tests. He has to absolutely do something with the ball... and as part of a four pronged pace Attack, seems Cook trusts him the least. And for all of Cook's faults and flaws, I don't think his assessment of bowlers has ever been off.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:16 pm

Spot on msp - both sides have to be pro active here. England don't have enough runs to build pressure and get the rewards later. Windies don't have the... well everything... to try crawl to 191 on this deck
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by alfie on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:17 pm

I'm sure we'll all have fun debating selections all summer Smile

If England lose this no doubt there will be calls for Heads To Roll...but I am not sure there exists the miracle replacement team that will inevitably be called for by the Something Must Be Done brigade.

And I have to say this is swinging back the hosts way with a flurry of runs...need to nip one of these out pretty soon I think. Would be a nice time for Broad to have one of his magic spells...

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by alfie on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:26 pm

kingraf wrote:Spot on msp - both sides have to be pro active here. England don't have enough runs to build pressure and get the rewards later. Windies don't have the... well everything... to try crawl to 191 on this deck

I should perhaps clarify . Raf : I didn't mean to suggest England should bowl defensively - of course they must attack. But equally they cannot have the spinners going around the park or this will be done and dusted this afternoon. Neither of the spinners is likely to take five wickets ; but if they don't donate easy runs they are going to get a break or two ; and then I think the pace men can do the rest.

60/40 to West Indies right now I think ...

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by alfie on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:32 pm

Dot ball pressure does the trick ! Three maidens and then Broad cleans up Samuels...though that ball skidded through a bit , would have been dangerous any time.
England needed that .

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:32 pm

Still enough time for England to not have to force it... But the clock is ticking
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:33 pm

Samuels bowled by Broad. Yes I understand what you are saying alfie but surely a time must come when the old guard have used up all of their chances and options have to be looked at. After all they may take to Test cricket like ducks to water.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:34 pm

A longish scoreless period and at the end of it Samuels is bowled. England right back in the game.......
Chanderpaul hasn't been his usual self from the time of the South Africa series. Still its going to be a big wicket.......

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:36 pm

England trading on the value of that first run lead. Could be priceless at the end
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:37 pm

First innings lead
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by alfie on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:38 pm

A big wicket , Samuels. He was one who scores quickly. Root bowling well to the left hander...

I have a hunch Blackwood may be the key player for the home team...of course they still have to split these two first.

One more over to tea ?

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:40 pm

West Indies stuck on 70 for quite some time, this would be seriously problematic......

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:42 pm

Can someone remind Chanderpaul of good old Shiv who smashed a 69 ball hundred against a quality Australian side on a demanding trak?

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:42 pm

70 for 3 at Tea. This looks like it may very well stretch into tomorrow.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:43 pm

Marlon Samuels isn't actually very good is he?
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:51 pm

If Blackwood is in for an hour, and there is no irreparable damage on the other end. West Indies have it.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 7:52 pm

A home(ish) victory against the Team the Windies love beating more than any other would be a good way for Chanders to go
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 8:04 pm

What a first shot post tea from Bravo. Reminds me of the friendly I played in this afternoon. Pity that guy didn't play put the rest of my over with a series of dots.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 8:07 pm

Bonus wicket for England. Chiv looks to leave the ball and plays on. West Indies 80 for 4.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 8:08 pm

So Chanderpaul goes, Anderson gets Chanderpaul.
All down to this pair....... Think its 70-30 in favor of England.......

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 8:21 pm

Still anyone's game and looking certain now that it won't be finished tonight.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 03 May 2015, 8:22 pm

Alfie - you able to stay with the last session and us? Hope so.

Other than that one expensive over immediately after tea, Root doing a good job. However, I can't but help feel the situation is even better suited to ''my man'' Tredwell who would have stayed in my team for the second Test and in all likelihood this one. Ah well, the trials and tribulations of an armchair selector ....

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 8:26 pm

A missed stumping chance from Buttler there. Root bowling well here.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 03 May 2015, 8:29 pm

That's the first big mistake I can remember buttler making since he became test wicket keeper - tough chance
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 8:33 pm

Olly wrote:That's the first big mistake I can remember buttler making since he became test wicket keeper - tough chance

Could prove very costly though.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 8:34 pm

England may drag it to the second new ball. Reckon it's very difficult if that happens
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 03 May 2015, 8:53 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Olly wrote:That's the first big mistake I can remember buttler making since he became test wicket keeper - tough chance

Could prove very costly though.

I had Chris Read behind the stumps in my team for the first Test of summer 2014! Laugh However, I have to say that Buttler has done pretty well with the gloves. Craig is right though - it could prove very expensive.

Craig - glad you've resisted that classic catchphrase, ''I 'ate you, Buttler!''. Wink

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:01 pm

Ten runs in the last seven balls. Cut the target by 11%!
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:04 pm

Another 20 overs today, WI need 82, England need 6 wickets.......

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by kingraf on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:05 pm

Say West Indies score 60ish. Do they take the first extra half hour?
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:05 pm

I don't think it'll finish today msp.

At a point now where you feel England need another wicket quickly.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:11 pm

One thing that has to be said is that this West Indies side, I'd say, are striving and are becoming a better side than ones of recent years. The coaches are trying to impose a new steel into their players and it does look like it is beginning to bear fruit.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:27 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:One thing that has to be said is that this West Indies side, I'd say, are striving and are becoming a better side than ones of recent years. The coaches are trying to impose a new steel into their players and it does look like it is beginning to bear fruit.

Definitely and that can only be good for the world game.

74 runs or 6 wickets needed now. West Indies the current favourites although 2 quick wickets would heavily change the complexion of the game.

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:37 pm

West Indies now favourites. How bad would a 1-1 draw of the series be for England if that is how it turns out?

Thoughts?
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:39 pm

As the West Indies have just about got themselves ahead here, Cook has turned to Anderson.

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:41 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:West Indies now favourites. How bad would a 1-1 draw of the series be for England if that is how it turns out?

Thoughts?

Not great Craig - really not very good, this west Indies side is very poor (and that's before all the chopping and changing they've had to do this series due to injury/poor form)

Still think there is a few twists left yet
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:45 pm

Olly wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:West Indies now favourites. How bad would a 1-1 draw of the series be for England if that is how it turns out?

Thoughts?

Not great Craig - really not very good, this west Indies side is very poor (and that's before all the chopping and changing they've had to do this series due to injury/poor form)

Still think there is a few twists left yet

I am no expert but the worrying factor listening to more knowledgable posters on here is that this set of players are the best available and there are no other go to options (aside from the likes of Plunkett, Finn, Woakes). That has to be the concern that it appears that the players available just aren't good enough.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:52 pm

Edged through the vacant second slip - cmon Cookie your captaincy has been good this series, that's a blip tho
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:52 pm

Anderson creating some trouble for the batsman, Blackwood nearly picked out Root, then Bravo edging wide of Cook in the next over. Even after they've batted for some time, they aren't quite in on this track.......

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 9:58 pm

I am not too sure about this theory of the players who aren't in the side not being good enough. I did mention the Indian situation with Sehwag, Gambhir and Harbhajan Singh. All of them were experienced, successful players who lost form/entered a period of decline. The side kept losing, retirements, and evem more importantly, a home series loss against England really forced the changes. A reasonably successful domestic opener and another one who was the regular standby who didn't have a great international record got their chances and made it count. Even they tried playing with an all-rounder and 4 bowlers thereby offering the skipper 3 spinners and 2 seamers, and things started improving though rather slowly.......
Think you eventually have to take some tough calls.......

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 10:01 pm

Even players like VVS Laxman were given hints following which he retired.
BTW, how is StevenFinn going in County Cricket?

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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 May 2015, 10:03 pm

I think it was Mike that said the selectors don't actively go out to pick anything less than what they think is the strongest team and I do agree with that. However, that does not rule out mistakes being made. I know hindsight is great but pre-match the general concensus was that Trott should be dropped (proved to be the case that he should have been but wasn't) and that Rashid should have come in (which the pundits are all saying he should have been considering how this pitch has played) so that is a couple of errors the selectors have made in my opinion.
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Re: West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 May 2015, 10:03 pm

The scoreboard getting a bit stuck, yes we are closer to stumps, but I am not sure this is the right approach from the West Indies.

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