England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

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England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 May 2015, 9:24 am

First topic message reminder :

Less than two weeks to go before the Selectors announce England's squad for the first test, starting on 21st May. At the culmination of the West Indies first innings in Barbados you would have said that the test team had perhaps taken two steps forward and one backwards. The rest of that test were however several huge backward steps as we look to progress.

So what can we expect when the squad is announced in 12 days time? The guys on the current tour who have not played (Lyth, Bairstow, Rashid, Plunkett & Wood) will have just one first class game to try and make their cases for selection - and now you have to say that there are definitely places up for grabs.

Certain to be in Squad:

Cook, Ballance, Bell, Root, Buttler, Broad, Anderson

Cook will continue as captain in the near future, while his runs in the Caribbean have secured his spot at the top of the order for a while yet.
Broad will be included, but I feel his place is increasingly at risk.


Probably in Squad:

Stokes, Ali

Likely to both be in squad. Real question is should both be in the team at the same time? Stokes is surely a 4th seamer, while this tour has reminded us that Ali had a fantastic introduction to International cricket as a bowler, but as someone who has always been a batsman who bowls a bit he is still learning his trade. Should he really be the main spinner?


Likely to miss out

Trott, Jordan, Tredwell

The experiment with Trot at opener is surely over. Jordan has not looked good enough to fill the 3rd seamer role, and does not bat well enough to be 4th seamer. Tredwell can return to Canterbury to be Kent's second choice spinner.



So who will be asked to step up?

At opener Lyth is the next cab on the rank, but will have played bugger all cricket. Robson made a big hundred at the weekend, but bugger all in Middlesex first two CC matches. Hales is scoring runs for Notts, but at number 3.
Plunkett and Wood may be looked at but have the same problem as Lyth with no cricket under their belts. Who is there in county cricket who bowls with real pace, can offer something different and can get good batsmen out?  not sure there is anyone. If fit Woakes may well be looked at.
Finally we need a genuine spinner in the squad. Coach (should he survive) and skipper do not rate Rashid - so who do we look at next?




The good news, for England team, is that NZs preparations will be disrupted with several players not arriving from IPL until the eve of the first test.


NZ Squads:

Test squad:
Brendon McCullum (captain), Corey Anderson, Trent Boult, Doug Bracewell, Mark Craig, Martin Guptill, Matt Henry, Tom Latham, Luke Ronchi (wk), Hamish Rutherford, Tim Southee, Ross Taylor, Neil Wagner, BJ Watling (wk), Kane Williamson.

ODI and T20 squad:
Brendon McCullum (captain), Corey Anderson, Trent Boult, Grant Elliott, Martin Guptill, Matt Henry, Tom Latham, Mitchell McClenaghan, Nathan McCullum, Adam Milne, Luke Ronchi (wk), Mitchell Santner, Tim Southee, Ross Taylor, Kane Williamson.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by king_carlos on Wed 13 May 2015, 5:33 pm

If Gillespie is the new coach then the chance of Rashid being given a shot could very realistically go up.

Similarly if it comes down to a tight call between Lyth and another, or likewise if he feels we need some more pace in our attack then Plunkett could be helped by familiarity with the incoming coach.

1.Cook (c)
2.Lyth
3.Ballance
4.Bell
5.Root
6.Stokes
7.Buttler (wk)
8.Rashid, Ali or Tredwell
9.Plunkett, Wood, Jordan, Rushworth
10.Broad
11.Anderson

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Wed 13 May 2015, 7:17 pm

England should seriously consider batting Broad at 11, Anderson is now better than a number 11 and Broad is not good enough any more as a number 10. Perhaps that demotion might reawaken the batsman in Stuart Broad, the guy was a bowling all-rounder ones upon a time.......
Think it will be and should be Lyth who would start the New Zealand series, and a half-century in the only county game he got in between would do no harm to his case, that's what commonsense and cricketing logic suggest, but I don't forget we live in the era of #strausslogic.......

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 13 May 2015, 7:28 pm

Anyone heard much about that dual qualified south african offspinner at surrey? Ive heard he can bat a bit as well. Maybe an outside bet for a place in the squad with Ali struggling, especially as theres a fellow Saffer in charge now...bound to be some comradeship there. Whistle


Last edited by Gooseberry on Wed 13 May 2015, 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 13 May 2015, 7:32 pm

msp83 wrote:Hope Rashid will be trusted for the New Zealand tests. Has Moeen Ali been involved in any county games?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/804185.html

Pretty limp from him. Rashid is certainly making a stronger case for inclusion right now.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Wed 13 May 2015, 7:35 pm

Just noticed Jason Roy was born in South Africa, how is his offspin rated!!?

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Wed 13 May 2015, 7:41 pm

Rashid indeed making a stronger case for himself, but think they'll trust Ali at least for the first test.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by king_carlos on Wed 13 May 2015, 9:41 pm

I guess the other options is picking both of them (or Ali and another spinner) if the pitch looks like a turner, then leave Stokes out. It would be a risk however as, whilst a deep batting line-up, Ali hasn't consistently shone with the bat in the test arena and Rashid isn't really a test 6 IMO.

If Stokes weren't picked then it would put even more pressure on whoever the 3rd seamer is to perform however.

Bottom line is that in the course of a series this side could likely struggle in anyway, we need to find out:

- Who our best 3rd seamer is to support Broad and Anderson?

- Who our best spinner is and what role do we want them to play in the side?

- Are any of Stokes, Ali or Rashid good enough bats to come in at 6 in test cricket?

If no to the above then is a 3 man pace attack (with yet undecided 3rd seamer) supported by a yet undecided spinner strong enough to allow us to pick another batsmen at 6? Then who is that batsmen?

Just a few points to work out whilst dealing with McCullum, Williamson, Taylor, Boult, Southee, et al then...

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Thu 14 May 2015, 8:56 am

Think they should bat Buttler at 6 and the all-rounders at 7 and 8. If the all-rounders are Rashid and Stokes, would have Stokes at 7 and Rashid at 8, if its Ali in place of Rashid, again he should bat 8. Not sure any one of Stokes, Ali, Rashid or Woakes are good enough to bat 6 in test matches. Stokes could be a good number 7, and so could Ali at a pinch. Woakes and Rashid are more number 8 than 7......

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:19 am

Buttler is still very much a big hitting limited overs type rather than one who you'd look to hold the tail together and dog out a long innings like Prior did on a number of occasions (from 7). I see him as about as much of a 6 as Flintoff was, simply picking him there wouldnt actually give him the ability to really do the job properly.
In theory Ali is the best batsmen of all of them, he just hasnt really delivered yet in internationals.
Stokes, as with Ali, hasnt really bought much to the table either. The oddity being that in theory hes possibly more of a bowler (Englands fastest) but its his bating that is saving his place.
Woakes certainly isnt a test 6 six, Rashid could become one but England will want him to ocus on his bowling especially if he ends up as a sole spinner.

None of them are likely to end their careers with and average much above 40 and certainly none are likely to be the next Kallis, but with 3 or more of the multi faceted players in the side England can get some real depth to their batting whilst still playing 5 bowlers.

If they try and cook up a real spinners wicket for the first test to negate the NZ seam attack then Rashid/Ali is a possibility, likely at the expense of Stokes. But I suspect they will stick with the 4 and 1 bowler split and give Stokes another chance. He really need to start getting some wickets though. Rashid has earned a place , whether that enough t dislodge Ali is another question. On current form it should be.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Thu 14 May 2015, 11:43 am

Post-Swann England spin options are not the types to run through batting lineups. James Anderson is their best bet with the ball. In Kane Williamson, Ross Taylor and McCullum, New Zealand lineup has a core of players who can deal with spin alright. Mark Craig as as good as any of England's spin options or a touch better. Other than Cook and Root, the England lineup is not proven against spin and Cook anyways hasn't been very consistent of late.
And we are still in May, its England we are talking about, they really can't get a spinning wicket together, a slow low one may be, but not a proper spinning wicket. And on just an ordinary slow low track like the ones used dduring the 2013 Ashes, they would need a spinner of Swann's class to trouble quality batting lineups.
So it really is not commonsense to go in with 2 spinners and Root as the primary strike options. Get Rashid in as the sole spinner and number 8 bat, Stokes as the all-rounder at 7, and perhaps Wood as the 3rd seamer.
Instead, England will go in with Stokes at 6, Ali at 7, Buttler at 8 and Jordan as the 3rd seamer.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 May 2015, 12:14 pm

Mark wood to be selected in the 12 man squad.
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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by VTR on Thu 14 May 2015, 12:57 pm

msp83 wrote:Think they should bat Buttler at 6 and the all-rounders at 7 and 8. If the all-rounders are Rashid and Stokes, would have Stokes at 7 and Rashid at 8, if its Ali in place of Rashid, again he should bat 8. Not sure any one of Stokes, Ali, Rashid or Woakes are good enough to bat 6 in test matches. Stokes could be a good number 7,  and so could Ali at a pinch. Woakes and Rashid are more number 8 than 7......

I am an advocate of Buttler at 6. Back the talent rather than just look at the numbers. Gooseberry mentions Flintoff at 6, I actually thought he batted far better there than at 7 as he took a lot more responsibility over building an innings.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by alfie on Thu 14 May 2015, 1:18 pm

Not sure any of them inspire confidence at six at the moment. I think I'd probably stick with Stokes at six for the moment , in hopes it will bring out the best in his batting - he must know his place is under pressure , with Woakes likely to be fit to play soon. And I'd have Buttler at seven : Ali needs to make a few more runs to justify batting above either of them - unless he is replaced by Rashid of course. Still think that is unlikely to be honest.
But if they bat them the other way around I'm not that bothered. What I do hope for is a bit more result as against potential from the three of them ! If they all stick around they'll sort the order out eventually...

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Thu 14 May 2015, 1:35 pm

Buttler at 8 is total waste of talent. But than that's England speciality at the moment.......

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 14 May 2015, 5:01 pm

VTR wrote:
msp83 wrote:Think they should bat Buttler at 6 and the all-rounders at 7 and 8. If the all-rounders are Rashid and Stokes, would have Stokes at 7 and Rashid at 8, if its Ali in place of Rashid, again he should bat 8. Not sure any one of Stokes, Ali, Rashid or Woakes are good enough to bat 6 in test matches. Stokes could be a good number 7,  and so could Ali at a pinch. Woakes and Rashid are more number 8 than 7......

I am an advocate of Buttler at 6. Back the talent rather than just look at the numbers. Gooseberry mentions Flintoff at 6, I actually thought he batted far better there than at 7 as he took a lot more responsibility over building an innings.

It depends how you rate Buttler I suppose, he's never going to be at the level Prior was at but having him at 8 means he'll never be able to build an innings with the tail, personally don't think he'll ever be more than a good short form player.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by king_carlos on Thu 14 May 2015, 5:32 pm

Twelve man squad announced:

Alastair Cook (Essex, capt), Adam Lyth, Gary Ballance (both Yorskhire), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Jos Buttler (Lancashire, wk), Chris Jordan (Sussex), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Mark Wood (Durham)

Looks like we will see:

1.Cook (c)
2.Lyth
3.Ballance
4.Bell
5.Root
6.Stokes
7.Buttler (wk)
8.Ali
9.Jordan or Wood
10.Broad
11.Anderson

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 May 2015, 5:41 pm

Boycot must be running out of anger right about now with Rashid Bairstow and Bresnan missing out Rolling Eyes

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:03 pm

So Ali to continue as the sole spinner. Yeah, the only fix England cricket needed was a new deputy to Cook!. #strausslogic!.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:05 pm

Jonathan Trott must be wondering as to whether he retired too early!

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:07 pm

The lineup will be like this.
Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Jordan
Broad
Anderson.
Buttler certain to bat 8, and Jordan a certain starter.......

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by 931035 on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:44 pm

I find this squad disappointing but unsurprising. I like Moeen Ali as a bowler (I don't really rate his batting); he has a good action, with nice flight and turn and I struggle to see a spinner in the county game with more potential. However, it was clear in the Caribbean that he is woefully out of form, and as he has spent most of his career as primarily a batsman he cannot be expected to suddenly twirl the magic. He should regain his form in county cricket.

The other thing that was clear (but also clear before the tour) is that Chris Jordan is not a test quality bowler. I simply cannot fathom what the selectors are seeing here.

Finally, if you're going to bat your keeper at 8, which from the makeup of this squad looks likely again, you might as well pick your best 'keeper, and not even Jos Buttler's mum could think that England's best 'keeper is Jos Buttler.




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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Mike Selig on Thu 14 May 2015, 10:38 pm

I don't know, there is something about Jordan... England have clearly decided he is worth investing in, and he may well be. Time will tell.

Ditto Ali. I happen to agree he's worth persevering with - partly because of the lack of options, and partly because it's not long ago he was running through the Indian batting line-up.

The thing about investing in youth (which pretty much everybody said England should do after the previous ashes) is that it takes time. At some point when the player is not performing as hoped you have to make a decision as to whether it is merely temporary and there is enough there, or there are fundamental flaws preventing progress (which may be ironed out). England have discarded Robson for example, but clearly feel the likes of Moeen Ali, Jordan, Stokes and to a lesser extent Buttler should be given more time. I'm not saying they're right, but I can see the reasoning.

I agree that 8 is too low for Buttler. 6 may be a bit high, but I'd be willing to see how he'd respond. Personally I think England have something a bit special in Buttler.

Big summer for Bell IMO - he's lot the Vice-captaincy (rightly IMO to give Root more responsibility) and there are plenty of options to replace him in the middle-order such as Taylor, Vince, even Hales. As a senior player he has to stand up and be counted.

Stokes also needs to start delivering more consistently.

Whatever the final line-up, much responsibility with the ball will rest with Anderson and Broad again. But frankly none of the other options out there are that appealing.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 May 2015, 10:46 pm

Should really give Wood a go as the 3rd seamer in my humble opinion. Let's see what he's got
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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 15 May 2015, 8:11 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It depends how you rate Buttler I suppose, he's never going to be at the level Prior was at but having him at 8 means he'll never be able to build an innings with the tail, personally don't think he'll ever be more than a good short form player.

While I reckon Buttler will end his career with a better batting average than Prior.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by VTR on Fri 15 May 2015, 8:36 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:It depends how you rate Buttler I suppose, he's never going to be at the level Prior was at but having him at 8 means he'll never be able to build an innings with the tail, personally don't think he'll ever be more than a good short form player.

While I reckon Buttler will end his career with a better batting average than Prior.

I agree with this. They said the same thing about David Warner (and even, going back a bit, he who can't be named!) being a limited overs player and look at him now. Buttler is a huge talent that needs to be invested in.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 15 May 2015, 9:24 am

Poor Kiwis not able to get some match practice in yesterday, I see.
Anyone know if the weather will improve in Worcester today and whether there will be a chance of some play?

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 15 May 2015, 9:44 am

Hi LD - yes, a much better day across the country today. (Surrey would have been exceptionally annoyed if yesterday's rain had come 24 hours earler. Btw, trust you saw my prediction for the end of that match - he added shamelessly! Wink )

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 15 May 2015, 10:25 am

guildfordbat wrote:Hi LD - yes, a much better day across the country today. (Surrey would have been exceptionally annoyed if yesterday's rain had come 24 hours earler. Btw, trust you saw my prediction for the end of that match - he added shamelessly! Wink )

Yes I did, mate. You have such a precise and accurate feel for this game!
They did it perfectly with only minutes and a few overs to spare - exactly as you predicted. Wink

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 15 May 2015, 10:35 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Hi LD - yes, a much better day across the country today. (Surrey would have been exceptionally annoyed if yesterday's rain had come 24 hours earler. Btw, trust you saw my prediction for the end of that match - he added shamelessly! Wink )

Yes I did, mate. You have such a precise and accurate feel for this game!
They did it perfectly with only minutes and a few overs to spare - exactly as you predicted. Wink

I don't know about that, LD! Buy enough tickets and you have to win the raffle once in a while! Very Happy

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by JDizzle on Fri 15 May 2015, 11:07 am

Ed Barnard in Worcs 15 man squad today. Hoping for good things!

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 15 May 2015, 11:49 am

I notice division 1's top run scorer has buggered off to IPL as he has no chance of getting in the test side. Interesting that he didnt feel the need to tweet #strausslogic and flounce about it unlike division 2's.


Rashid and Wood must be close to kicking that door down with their domestic form. Jordan, Ali and Stokes have a lot to prove against New Zealand.

Part of the reasoning for the lack of radical changes may be down to al the changes at the top and that they still dont actually have a coach signed up. Not much point in having a revolution only to have it all revolved again the following week.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by JDizzle on Fri 15 May 2015, 4:29 pm

JDizzle wrote:Ed Barnard in Worcs 15 man squad today. Hoping for good things!

A respectable set of figures so far, 10-1-41-0, not a bad start. Will be a test with the bat for him though.

And NZ are 221-8, but who really cares about that.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Fri 15 May 2015, 4:44 pm

Ross Taylor not in the runs yet again. Rutherford scored 75 and Guptill 35, but I think they should go in for the latter.
Crucial game for Wagner, Henry and Bracewell. Not sure that 3rd seamer position is a done deal.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Fri 15 May 2015, 5:06 pm

So 43 from Bracewell and with him gone, NZ declared. Now if he can take a few wickets, can make a strong case for himself as the 3rd seamer.......
Don't think NZ will go in with 4 seamers and Anderson, Craig will be in there, so this is the opportunity for all 3 of Bracewell, Wagner and Henry to make their case for partnering Southee and Boult.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 May 2015, 5:10 pm

Anderson is injured now ain't he?
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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by JDizzle on Fri 15 May 2015, 5:18 pm

And Bracewell falls to Barnard. Solid 'sort of first class, but not really' debut. NZ didn't dare expose their number 11 to his gas.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Fri 15 May 2015, 5:58 pm

Olly wrote:Anderson is injured now ain't he?
, So they are without both Neesham and Anderson then. Would be interesting to see their combination....... Rather than picking both Rutherford and Guptill, or Ronchi as a batsman, think they should go in with 5 bowlers, as Craig, Southee and even Bracewell can bat a bit.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by king_carlos on Fri 15 May 2015, 7:18 pm

VTR wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:It depends how you rate Buttler I suppose, he's never going to be at the level Prior was at but having him at 8 means he'll never be able to build an innings with the tail, personally don't think he'll ever be more than a good short form player.

While I reckon Buttler will end his career with a better batting average than Prior.

I agree with this. They said the same thing about David Warner (and even, going back a bit, he who can't be named!) being a limited overs player and look at him now. Buttler is a huge talent that needs to be invested in.

The difference is that Warner averages over 50 in first class cricket whereas Buttler averages under 35. The view of Warner being a pinch hitting ODI opener who was given a punt in the test side and came good is one grounded in fans never noticing his first class credentials. To average over 50 as an opener in the first class game whilst playing domestic cricket in a country with as strong pace bowlers as Australia is exceptional regardless of his strike rate.

Now we've backed Buttler we need to stick with him but he's a player learning how to play a FC innings in the test arena. I therefore fear it's going to take time until we consistently see much more than the odd cameo from him against top opposition.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Fri 15 May 2015, 7:25 pm

Buttler still averages 62 it should be remembered. And though he was wasted at 8, he didn't do too bad in the West Indies either to warrant any debate on his place in the side. I think he's a better wicketkeeper than Bairstow, and I think Buttler is better with the bat as well. Bairstow has some serious technical issues with his batting. The thing with Buttler is about how England would manage him.......

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 May 2015, 7:25 pm

msp83 wrote:
Olly wrote:Anderson is injured now ain't he?
, So they are without both Neesham and Anderson then. Would be interesting to see their combination....... Rather than picking both Rutherford and Guptill, or Ronchi as a batsman, think they should go in with 5 bowlers, as Craig, Southee and even Bracewell can bat a bit.

Think New Zealand need the 6th batsman more than the 5th bowler personally msp - especially considering Williamson can bowl a few
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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Fri 15 May 2015, 7:41 pm

Olly wrote:
msp83 wrote:
Olly wrote:Anderson is injured now ain't he?
, So they are without both Neesham and Anderson then. Would be interesting to see their combination....... Rather than picking both Rutherford and Guptill, or Ronchi as a batsman, think they should go in with 5 bowlers, as Craig, Southee and even Bracewell can bat a bit.

Think New Zealand need the 6th batsman more than the 5th bowler personally msp - especially considering Williamson can bowl a few
Olly, in principle yes.......
However, both Rutherford and Guptill aren't proven test players. Neither is Ronchi. As such, I believe a 5th bowler would add more value to the side than a 6th batsman. We should also remember that KW hasn't been doing much bowling after his action was questioned and remodeled. He hardly bowled in the WC....... Craig is good as a bowling all-rounder. Southee is a bowler who can bat. Even Henry, Wagner, Bracewell and Boult, none of them are number 11s of the Chris Martin type. Some of them are bowlers who can bat, the others are effective sloggers.
The one reason that would add to the 6th batsman argument though is that NZ's main batsmen either haven't played enough in England to get used to conditions or haven't had enough runs or confidence. Williamson and McCullum were away at the IPL, Taylor hasn't scored anything substantial in the warmups. That is the core of NZ batting, so as such, they might want some cover.
If they are going in for the 6th batsman, who would you go for? Guptill? Rutherford? Ronchi? Perhaps I'll have Guptill down the order at 6 with Rutherford opening.......

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 May 2015, 8:46 pm

I hear a rumbling over the hill....

What is it...

It's the "Steve Davies for England bandwagon"
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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Mike Selig on Fri 15 May 2015, 8:56 pm

Would help if he kept for Surrey...

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 15 May 2015, 9:02 pm

Since we're talking CC here, this Alex Hales bloke, he can bat a bit? Reckon he should be involved somewhere?

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 May 2015, 9:03 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Since we're talking CC here, this Alex Hales bloke, he can bat a bit? Reckon he should be involved somewhere?

Nah he's only scored the most runs in division one this season - been found out as Peter moores said...
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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Mike Selig on Sat 16 May 2015, 9:42 am

Where though? I like Hales a lot but he's not opening and England's middle order is fairly settled. Bell may come under pressure unless he finds more consistency but I think most would agree Ballance, Bell, Root at 3,4,5 is reasonable ATM... The same people wanting him picked are those who would crucify England if they picked him as a test opener and he failed...

Unless you are talking about ODIs...in which case yes Hales should be opening, possibly with Roy.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by msp83 on Sat 16 May 2015, 9:48 am

Hales is a talent, and he has had a good season. Still he is averaging under 40 in FC cricket it should be remembered. Going by England's problems at the top, I would certainly consider him as one of the options, but that would be against the very core of the philosophy with which England play their cricket.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by kingraf on Sat 16 May 2015, 9:55 am

Both Olly and MfC have reached palindromes. Fantastic
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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 16 May 2015, 10:35 am

Mike Selig wrote:Where though? I like Hales a lot but he's not opening and England's middle order is fairly settled. Bell may come under pressure unless he finds more consistency but I think most would agree Ballance, Bell, Root at 3,4,5 is reasonable ATM... The same people wanting him picked are those who would crucify England if they picked him as a test opener and he failed...

Unless you are talking about ODIs...in which case yes Hales should be opening, possibly with Roy.

I'm thinkin ODI's personally - but wouldn't be averse to him having a go in tests (although would prefer lyth is given a chance first).
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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

Post by Gooseberry on Sat 16 May 2015, 12:58 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Where though? I like Hales a lot but he's not opening and England's middle order is fairly settled. Bell may come under pressure unless he finds more consistency but I think most would agree Ballance, Bell, Root at 3,4,5 is reasonable ATM... The same people wanting him picked are those who would crucify England if they picked him as a test opener and he failed...

Unless you are talking about ODIs...in which case yes Hales should be opening, possibly with Roy.

Yep I dont think anyone can argue Hales should be in the limited overs sides.
I mentioned him in connection with tests previously as a mirror to the furore over KP. Hales has done essentially the same as the great one except against better opposition in iv 1, and offers essentially the same to the team ...middle order batting no (significant) bowling, attacking intent, the ability to hit opposition bowlers out of the attack, and big runs quickly which can turn a game on its head. Just without the baggage.Yet its barely touched the news that he is off to the IPL rather tan even being available should Bell fail/explode/resign/tweet rude things about strauss in the next few weeks.

The side just doesnt need/want that kind of player right now though. 3-5 is where their strength lies. Thats also going to be the issue for Davies, who if he was keeping would be competing for Bairstow as Buttlers understudy. Neither of them or Taylor are easily going to get in the test side whilst Root, Ballance and Bell are fit and whilst England cant find 4 bowlers who could carry the attack on their own.

So as usual most of the top run scorers and wicket takers from the county game arent in and in many cases not even close to the squad.

Is that a sign that the county game is pretty irrelevant, its been said before by England coaches.

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Re: England vs New Zealand Test Series - May/June 2015

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