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Look Who Is Not Back?

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CaledonianCraig
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Post by Matchpoint Sun 10 May 2015, 8:07 pm

I wanted to post a follow-up counterpoint to ZZ's earlier thread "Look Who Is Back!!" (prematurely) claiming Nadal is back to winning form after he beat Dimitri at QF. But that thread has been locked. Thus this current thread for those interested to comment on the pressing question of Nadal's current form, given that he has failed to defend Madrid.

What now for the one who's won 9 RG but unable today to win a set on his best surface vs Andy Murray on his worse surface? Is it too easy and simple to blame it on age alone? Perhaps Nadal fans could shed more light. OK

BTW, many congrats to Andy. Great job almost flawlessly executed. You're a new and improved player post marriage. clap

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Post by temporary21 Sun 10 May 2015, 8:14 pm

We have a Nadal psychological issue thread Mp, this is better suited there.
Win with class, lose with class, thats what the big players show us time and time again. Rafa was ok in bits, but thats the best Murray has ever played to me, better than us open 2008.

He didnt win because he didnt, hes a step better than MC and barcelona. Hell now look to be a step better at Rome.

Lets remember hes had back and wrist surgery, he might not ever look as good as he did, he was great against Berdych, the levels there but not today. All about Muzz, he was federer like.

Remember one day your favourite player might lose, better to ignore zz's boasting and have humility Hug

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Post by Jahu Sun 10 May 2015, 9:57 pm

Matchpoint, you rub it so gently, ummm so naughty Laugh
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 10 May 2015, 10:35 pm

Why did Rafa not win?

Well where do I start? You have to be soft in the head if you have not noticed a big improvement in Rafa's performances in Madrid compared to what he has produced over the last eleven months. Coming into Madrid he was searching for form, confidence and consistency and during the tournament he found form and restored confidence and a degree of consistency.

Today against Murray he was put under the microscope. It was really all about the start today I'd definitely say. Had Murray been nervous or taken time for his serve to work then Rafa could have eased himself into a rhythm and keep building the confidence but that never happened. Andy broke early and that confidence (brittle though it was) started bringing those doubts back into Rafa's mind. As the first set wore on Rafa was improving and pressed harder to break back and held serve more comfortably. Now Andy of last year may have cracked and flung in a pathetic service game to open the door for Rafa but there was none of that today and Andy remained focused and determined and whatsmore - confident. He held his nerve and serve to wrap up the first set to increase the doubts in Rafa's mind. And when Andy broke early on again it just eroded away the last confidence and all Murray had to do was maintain his level and serve to wrap up the match.

To summarise - Rafa lost to Andy playing perhaps his best ever clay court match. Rafa came into the match in decent form but form without confidence and self-belief or consistency is precious good. Rafa's confidence was there is small degrees coming onto court (gained from his run to the final) but that was eroded soon by Andy's high level of play hence the result.
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Post by bogbrush Sun 10 May 2015, 10:39 pm

Murray played very well, no question, but prime Nadal wouldn't have struggled at all. Nothing to do with psychology or confidence, he's simply not the player he used to be.

It doesn't help that he has to play faster.
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Post by Jahu Sun 10 May 2015, 10:48 pm

Forget this sugar coating that CC (he is a nice guy, bless him) loves to do, confidence, mental etc as we were always told that Rafa is a mental giant, unbreakable, so now suddenly he gets beaten on clay and Rafa is not confident or weak mentally?

King of Clay has gone, lasted while it lasted, bored the whole world with his clay wins, etc etc, pretty good run I would say, nothing to feel bad about him or Fed or anyone else.



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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 10 May 2015, 11:00 pm

Sorry Jahu. I should have realized this thread is a WUM-zone only. I will take my views elsewhere. censored thumbsup
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Post by Jahu Sun 10 May 2015, 11:04 pm

Nothing WUM going on.

Andy won.

Rafa lost.

Leave out the shrink acting to soften the blow to Rafa.

In a few years it will be same for Djoko and Andy, human nature, you Wumaniser laughing
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Post by TRuffin Mon 11 May 2015, 12:19 am

The only thing tennis related to zz's op was he blamed all the troubles on nadal switching racquets and now that he was back to the old one- Rafa was going to dominate the tour. Well? What say you now zz? Did big nose switch nadals racquets perhaps? Smh

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Post by socal1976 Mon 11 May 2015, 5:20 am

Rafa was as inept as I have ever seen him on a clay court. That being said we can't take credit away from Murray. He looks like he has figured out his issues on clay and he may even be a threat for the big prize at RG, I wouldn't put it past him. Andy did play really well. But Nadal was at the same time really atrocious. Can't get around it, his game was awful. This is quite a long slump for a player aged 28/29 to pull out of he has now won exactly one title in south America in 11 months. If anyone can do it, it is Rafa.

What was really shocking for me was how totally ineffectual Nadal's heavy top spin forehand was. Against players with good double handers he seemingly can not get any penetration with that shot or trouble them into errors like he could in the past. We can't take all the credit away from Murray Nadal was playing well enough to get to the finals and so was Andy. But I think even Murray was surprised at how easy this match was.

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Post by Matchpoint Mon 11 May 2015, 10:11 am

@ Temp, sorry, I forgot about your psychological thread. But this one is more for zz. Nothing wrong with his boasting about Nadal. That's what fans are for, however irrational we may sound. But he went way beyond that with unnecessary and nasty "big nose" attacks, totally out of line. Let's say I'm just returning a favour, giving him whatever attention he craves. 

@ CC, good post and mostly agree with your view. OK But this thread is wum-zone for you? Funny you didn't say that re zz's OP, purportedly about Nadals come back where he seemed even more interested in making stupid and irrelevant "big nose" references. How come? 

@ Jahu, nah, I'm learning the art of, what do you call it here, wuuuuummmming? Laugh I don't understand your problem with CC. He and all posters can sugar-coat their posts all they want. It's not breaking forum rule, is it? 


@ BB, I do think it's a lot to do with confidence. But it's not so straight forward. I've earlier argued that Nadal's confidence today is not a consistent display as before but something more vulnerable and very prone to going up and down depending a lot on who's across the net. I see that he has all the confidence/form he needs to beat guys like Dimi, Almagro, Berdych et al IF and WHEN he senses early in the match that he has the game to outplay these opponents. By contrast, if the guy across the net is a Murray, Djokovic, Fognini or Nishi who shows early in the game that their game is every bit strong enough to counter that of Nadal's, then Rafa also senses that right away, starts to panic and, as well exemplified by yesterday's final vs an unrelenting Murray on fire, the Spaniard's confidence eroding away more and more. Errors multiplied....

Of course I agree that "prime Nadal wouldn't have struggle at all." But that's precisely because when you're king of clay in your early 20s, your confidence is almighty and unshakable. Now when you're at the wrong side of your 20s, the confidence is still there, but far more easily disturbed and made to disappear altogether by those who've caught up with Nadal's style of play. I think it's not so much that "he's simply not the player he used to be," but that some of the field have caught up with him with their new and improved game while Nadal's own game remains basically unchanged. 

@TRuffin, old or new, obviously it has nothing to to with the stick. He needs a plan B quick.

@ social, feels like a new era is dawning for Murray on clay. Incredible because in Oct, 2010 he famously said "I will never win the French Open." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-1317236/Ill-win-French-Open-admits-Andy-Murray.html

PS, Jahu and CC, pls get along you 2, now shake hands. P.E.A.C.E. thumbsup

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Post by Jahu Mon 11 May 2015, 10:42 am

Me and CC are good, it's only cause he is older and sometimes takes the role of the father to me, trying to educate me, and I play the spoiled kid to him Smile

Sugar coating is good, its only cause he has recently developed a friendship with a certain Nadal fan, he has started to soften and write more about Nadal then about Andy laughing
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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 11 May 2015, 3:07 pm

Sugar coating ??? CC not on your life he calls it as it is.. one of the most balanced posters on this forum... Wumming is for kids and not worth responding to

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Post by Jahu Mon 11 May 2015, 3:53 pm

...exactly.
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Post by temporary21 Mon 11 May 2015, 5:00 pm

Might I just say then lads that "counter boasting" contravenes the first rule of the forum, treat others as you want to be treated. Giving what you got is just as immature as the first offender.

This isnt an order by any stretch, but two sides escalating each other makes our job a nightmare, just walking away with dignity is the far more adult, and satisfying choice in the long run.

Otherwise we've no choice but to treat this thread the same way as zz's, so lets keep that to a bare minimum ok?


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