KP of the Overflow - Continued....

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KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by VTR on Wed 13 May 2015, 7:45 am

First topic message reminder :



And the bush hath friends to meet him, and their kindly voices greet him

In the murmur of the breezes and the river on its bars,

And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended,

And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars.




The real question is - how many times can a thread get bumped to make the same point ad nauseam?

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 13 May 2015, 4:34 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Cracking start to the job by Graves then.

Yes, and I don't believe he's even officially started yet!

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by VTR on Wed 13 May 2015, 4:40 pm

msp83 wrote:VTR, the point is just that, that Pietersen is a global superstar...... And as your list itself suggests, they don't come easy....... Flintoff and KP from the time I have been following England, and Botham I would agree with.......
There were comments about why 'Indians' are so concerned about Pietersen on these boards, think basically its been English, a few Indians, a few South Africans and a few Australians who are over here, and I believe a majority of people who seriously follow the game across nationalities would like to see Pietersen in international cricket or at least some credible explanation as to why such a 'global superstar' has to be kept out.

Fair enough. I actually think KP is probably more popular in India than he is over here, where he is not generally very well liked, or at the very least a divisive figure!

The explanation has been given, whether you take it as a valid/credible reason is another matter. That will vary from person to person. I think the communication has been a shambles, but to me the reason for him not being allowed back in considering the history of the whole affair, I can accept.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Wed 13 May 2015, 4:55 pm

To me, it's not really a big deal. If England took him back, I probably wouldn't write an article on why it's a bad idea... if they didn't (as they haven't) I'd reckon it's the correct decision. Its not too different from the Gibbs autobiography scenario, which got Gibbs' contract torn up real quick. An ageing superstar in a form dip releasing a PR nightmare for his bosses? Bye Bye.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 13 May 2015, 6:43 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:As an aside, Guildford, do you think there will be result today? Leics with a 132 run lead and 7 down. It's the last day is it not?


Hi LD - yes, it is the last day. I do think we'll win although it seems it will go down to the wire (I'm not there today). Tremlett got injured last night (no surprise there if you remember any of my old ''England in Aus'' posts!) and isn't bowling today. That's a major blow. However, we only have 2 more wickets to take now and have the firepower (Sanga, Davies, Roy, someone else) to chase down a total in short time. Furthermore, we really have to win today after 2 slightly disappointing draws and so will definitely be going all out for it.

Hi again LD - I'll put away any pretence of modesty and happily Very Happy  tell you that I called this one right. Surrey ended up needing 216 off 24 overs and got them with 3 wickets down around 6 pm with just 16 balls left. Instead of the usual Championship pair of Burns and Ansari, Surrey began with their t20 openers Davies and Roy at the crease and never looked back. Roy struck 67 off 39 balls whilst Davies ended up undefeated on 115 from 69. Pietersen didn't bat second dig. He hadn't been fielding earlier in the day (said to be a strain, hmmm) and consequently was not permitted to bat earlier than number 7. Concerns remain about Surrey's performance but they're not for tonight.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by msp83 on Wed 13 May 2015, 6:53 pm

So good to see KP go out? with a win.......

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by msp83 on Wed 13 May 2015, 6:55 pm

Surrey opened with Roy and Davies for such a chase. In a similar situation, what would England have done? Interesting to contemplate.......

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 13 May 2015, 7:41 pm

So now we have jumped form Yorkshire being better than england to Surrey be being better than England?

The CC points ystem makes chasing wins much more attractive, the difference between draws and losses is pretty negligible. Its deliberately designed to encourage teams to take risks and get more games ending in results. Davies is a fairly regular opener for them anyway isnt he?
As it was its hardly a risk to open with a tin of custard and Geoff Boycotts mum with a stick of rhubarb when playing Leicestershire. Theyve been gift wrapped several far better opportunities to turn games around than that and fallen even further short over the last few years. Div 2 is becoming a joke.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 13 May 2015, 10:46 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-england-recall-would-5693336

So we have Cook and freaking administration staff deciding selection from now on.

Deary deary me
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 13 May 2015, 10:48 pm

Someone pop down to Lord's and see if the admin staff are gonna pick Rashid for the squad or not
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 13 May 2015, 10:49 pm

"In a shock move Eoin Morgan will open the bowling on advice from Simon in finance"
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Thu 14 May 2015, 2:28 am

So KP out for two weeks injured... Three games in and his body's demanded a break already.
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Thu 14 May 2015, 7:15 am

Must admit I had a chuckle at the Mirror article. I can't imagine Sue in HR would care about whether KP plays or no. On the other hand, you've got to be a bit of a douchebag for even admin to refuse to work if you're there.
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Azzy on Thu 14 May 2015, 8:09 am

kingraf wrote:So KP out for two weeks injured... Three games in and his body's demanded a break already.
He batted for longer on his own in one innings than Jonathan Trott managed in six combined innings vs the Windies. He's entitled to a break methinks.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 May 2015, 8:16 am

Well there you go, turns out he was a crock after all.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Thu 14 May 2015, 8:20 am

Azzy wrote:
kingraf wrote:So KP out for two weeks injured... Three games in and his body's demanded a break already.
He batted for longer on his own in one innings than Jonathan Trott managed in six combined innings vs the Windies. He's entitled to a break methinks.

He is not taking a break... he is injured. There is a difference.
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by msp83 on Thu 14 May 2015, 8:35 am

Olly wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-england-recall-would-5693336

So we have Cook and freaking administration staff deciding selection from now on.

Deary deary me
So is this what they teach in the 'right kind of families'? The kid is acting like a stupid little brat.
Hopefully Australia and New Zealand would make his decision to walk away easier!

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Thu 14 May 2015, 8:46 am

msp83 wrote:
Olly wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-england-recall-would-5693336

So we have Cook and freaking administration staff deciding selection from now on.

Deary deary me
So is this what they teach in the 'right kind of families'? The kid is acting like a stupid little brat.
Hopefully Australia and New Zealand would make his decision to walk away easier!

Indeed.. what kind of a player issues ultimatums? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/england/7815038.stm
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 14 May 2015, 8:59 am

Olly wrote:"In a shock move Eoin Morgan will open the bowling on advice from Simon in finance"

In further news, Vince from the Post Room advanced his own claims for an England call up last night by scoring 29 for the Red Lion against the Crown. He used to live in the West Country and apparently would have had a trial for Gloucs but the bus didn't turn up.


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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:07 am

next thing you know the Captain will be wanting a spot on the selection panel.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:08 am

Gooseberry wrote:Well there you go, turns out he was a crock after all.

Headline in a week.


Andrew Strauss wrote: I was unfortunately misquoted. We do not trust KP... To remain fit.
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by VTR on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:24 am

Barbara the tea lady: One day it was black with one sugar, the next white with two. If that young Australian ever comes back here, I will be serving Mr Strauss a Baldrick-style Cappucino!

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Stella on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:30 am

Chocolate sprinklings?
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by VTR on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:40 am

Stella wrote:Chocolate sprinklings?


You got it!


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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:41 am

Maybe they should get Jeremy Clarkson in to do the catering, he'd happily put up with all KPS tantrums.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Azzy on Thu 14 May 2015, 12:13 pm

kingraf wrote:
Azzy wrote:
kingraf wrote:So KP out for two weeks injured... Three games in and his body's demanded a break already.
He batted for longer on his own in one innings than Jonathan Trott managed in six combined innings vs the Windies. He's entitled to a break methinks.

He is not taking a break... he is injured. There is a difference.
Yeah, and he's entitled to that (enforced) break. What a warrior.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Azzy on Thu 14 May 2015, 12:14 pm

I am an Essex fan, and was once a huge Cook fan. But after this revelation, I never want Cook to play for our country again. What kind of 'captain', or 'leader', or 'grown man' threatens to quit in a hissy fit because someone might be picked to play in your team?

Pathetic.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 May 2015, 12:17 pm

Ian Bell has come out and backed KP. I suppose he can't be trusted either...

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Azzy on Thu 14 May 2015, 12:29 pm

This really is showing the ECB to be a den of bullying, arrogance and lies.

Having said that, KP's newspaper column and stupid tweet about #StraussLogic has now ruined his chances for good.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by alfie on Thu 14 May 2015, 1:07 pm

Olly wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-england-recall-would-5693336

So we have Cook and freaking administration staff deciding selection from now on.

Deary deary me

Well maybe. All I've seen so far is an article in the Mirror. No quotes . Not sure that equates to the definitive word on everything...

Not saying its all rubbish. But unless the journalist bugged the meeting I wouldn't automatically assume everything he says is gospel.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by msp83 on Thu 14 May 2015, 2:50 pm

What blasphemy from Ian Bell!!!!!. Not only does he Trust Pietersen, he also thinks KP would make any side stronger!!!. How dare he question Captain Cook, and Tom, Dick and Harry who have been serving the ECB for ever???
Time to tell him he is not going to be there in England's plans any more!!!.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by msp83 on Thu 14 May 2015, 2:52 pm

Even a senior player like bell had to choose his words carefully, but another pointer towards the fact that its a clique rather than the side as such, that is against Pietersen's return.......

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by 931035 on Thu 14 May 2015, 9:56 pm

I still wouldn't be too surprised to see Pietersen back for the winter if he scores heavily. Strauss 'fully backed' Cook to be captain for the summer, while elevating Joe Root to the vice-captaincy. While Cook has just scored a hundred, it was a turgid one in a losing effort, and he needs more runs yet. I see Strauss' backing as effectively putting the captain on notice.

Cook, I believe, represents the last obstacle to a Pietersen return, as Strauss pointedly said he was not banned, but would not be back short term. I think Strauss could work with Pietersen at arm's length for the good of the team if needed.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Fri 15 May 2015, 6:52 am

Seems the recent reports point more to the back room staff having a problem with KP rather than the Administration. Seems strange to have members of the backroom staff revolt at the return of a supposedly top bloke. Speaks more than anything I think.

By now, everyone would know I rate the value of a integrated, thorough backroom team more than that of a coach. If you lose the backroom, you lose the game. Simple as.
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by VTR on Fri 15 May 2015, 8:06 am

By far the best comment I have read on this, from the peerless Andy Zaltzman:

"It is not entirely inconceivable that, by late July, Strauss will once again be describing Pietersen as a Cricketer of Unbelievable Natural Talent, as he did last summer in the commentary box, albeit in the form of an acronym."

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 15 May 2015, 9:54 am

Very clever, Andy Zaltzman and thanks for sharing, VTR. Smile

In entirely unrelated news to this thread, let me wish Colin Graves all the best in his new job. He starts as ECB Chairman today. Wonder if we'll ever hear anything from him? Wink

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Azzy on Fri 15 May 2015, 10:06 am

kingraf wrote:Seems the recent reports point more to the back room staff having a problem with KP rather than the Administration. Seems strange to have members of the backroom staff revolt at the return of a supposedly top bloke. Speaks more than anything I think.

By now, everyone would know I rate the value of a integrated, thorough backroom team more than that of a coach. If you lose the backroom, you lose the game. Simple as.
If you have a pathetic backroom, you have a pathetic team. I'd cleanse the backroom staff, disband the Cosy Club (TM), play the players who are the best available in their positions, give the new coach full control over team selection (with Strauss) and invite the media to be part of the journey, not squirreling for snippets of gossip from the outside.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Azzy on Fri 15 May 2015, 10:07 am

That backroom team put together that ridiculous document for the World Cup, and also took more than 40 staff the the Caribbean. It's high time the ECB ran the team like a professional sports team rather than a country club.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Fri 15 May 2015, 11:28 am

Well, look, the backroom aren't miracle workers. But a team can't get the best out themselves without it. Batsman probably can, but bowlers probably can't and a captain can't. Things are so tight at the top that I can't remember a team in the last fifteen-twenty years which has had a reasonable stint as a consistently threatening team which didn't have a fantastic backroom.
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by alfie on Fri 15 May 2015, 11:42 am

Blimey , raf ...your location is now longer than most of your posts Smile

Nice poetry though...

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Fri 15 May 2015, 11:46 am

Cheers Alfie. I noticed the same thing when I typed a snarky one liner earlier this week. Not mine unfortunately, but the entire poem is a cracker
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Azzy on Fri 15 May 2015, 11:49 am

kingraf wrote:Well, look, the backroom aren't miracle workers. But a team can't get the best out themselves without it. Batsman probably can, but bowlers probably can't and a captain can't. Things are so tight at the top that I can't remember a team in the last fifteen-twenty years which has had a reasonable stint as a consistently threatening team which didn't have a fantastic backroom.
England have one of its best openers of all time as captain. They have a great middle order. They have a keeper on the up, its best bowler ever and a good enough supporting bowler. They need another opener, a spinner and a good all-rounder, but they're not far from a great team. The backroom team however needs to go en masse. It's scandalous how poor the organisation of this team is.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 15 May 2015, 11:52 am

Azzy wrote:That backroom team put together that ridiculous document for the World Cup, and also took more than 40 staff the the Caribbean. It's high time the ECB ran the team like a professional sports team rather than a country club.

Surely having a large and professional body of support staff, coaches, and medics is how professional sports teams are run?

Id assume that the professional players in a professional team are expected to behave like professionals as well.

#kpfanboylogic

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Azzy on Fri 15 May 2015, 11:58 am

Supposedly each player has two staff to look after them. No team has that. Normally the entire team has 2/3 staff to do tasks for them, sometimes you get given someone for yourself for a period of time (if you're new to the team/country). Geoff Boycott had a rant about the wastage of the ECB in staff costs, the distraction is causes for the whole team having that many people round. If I was Strauss, I'd have:

15 Test players on tour
1 head coach
1 batting coach
1 bowling coach
1 fielding / keeping coach
2 physios
2 equipment staff
2 bods for looking after players
2 admin

That's 12 staff + the players. A close-knit group, all in it together. Work hard, win games, enjoy life. As it was there was something like 80 people involved in the Windies tour. How can you concentrate on winning games when there's such chaos around you?

And for the record, I dislike KP and am nothing like a fanboy. I want him in the England team because he's both better than any other batsman (maybe not Root, but the rest) and the England setup needs to be brokwn down and the Cosy Club (TM) closed for good.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by John Cregan on Fri 15 May 2015, 8:22 pm

Why is Strauss making the decision not to pick Pietersen?
Surely that should be up to the new head coach.
It's time to remove the Captain from any role in selection. First, the Captain appears to be immune from being dropped, and his role in helping picking his teammates is far too divisive amongst a squad.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Azzy on Fri 15 May 2015, 8:31 pm

Bell and Woakes have already come out to support KP. Brave move by Woakes, he's not guaranteed a place in any side but is doing the right thing. The only former player I've heard say 'KP = bad' is, surprise surprise, Graeme Swann. Alec Stewart, Michael Vaughan, Flintoff, all the Aussies, everyone bar Swann says England are behaving foolishly. When has a national sporting setup been ridiculed like this for such a long period of time?

Agreed John, Cook should have zerp say. I'd move to selecting a captain on a game by game basis too, so Cook would have been dropped long ago and forced to rediscover his game with Essex rather than with England, taking up an in-form player's place.

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by msp83 on Fri 15 May 2015, 9:20 pm

Brave indeed from Woakes......

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Fri 15 May 2015, 11:11 pm

To be honest, if anything. Guys like Ian Bell and more especially Woakes being confident enough to publicly back Pietersen doesn't really give much credence to the whole Cosy Club theory. Can't be too all powerful if guys on the outside looking in, and on the inside are confident enough to express their opinions.
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Azzy on Sat 16 May 2015, 12:07 am

I disagree. If there was no Cosy Club (TM) surely every player, particularly the captain, would have said similar?

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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by kingraf on Sat 16 May 2015, 12:42 am

Why particularly the captain? He's under no obligation to ask for KP's return. 3,4,5 are packed. There is no spot for KP. He hasn't pushed for Prior's return, or even spoken about it really. He hasn't spoken of getting Monty back. He hasn't spoken about Chris Tremlett... Why speak about KP? Throughout the entire Windies series, I can't remember Ramdin moaning about the absence of Chris Gayle.

Before the World Cup Broad, who is supposedly vice Chancellor of the Bully boys said he wouldn't mind KP back. I've never seen in my life an entire team need to individuallyexpress their emotions on a certain player. KP isn't that special
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 17 May 2015, 11:16 pm

Olly wrote:Ian Bell has come out and backed KP. I suppose he can't be trusted either...


Broad too now (in the telegraph). There be a storm a brewin
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Re: KP of the Overflow - Continued....

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