The End of an Era

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The End of an Era

Post by kingraf on Mon 25 May 2015, 1:50 pm

So Shivnarine Chandepaul has been dropped from the West Indian line up for the tour of Australia. Always sad to see great players carry on for so long they have to be taken out to the back, but he's has a magnificent career. That Hundred against Australia is still one of the more remarkable knocks in cricketing history, dead rubber or no. He was also an capable apprentice when Brian Lara had the force with him during the 1996 World Cup Quarter final against South Africa. Splendid, if ungainly player, and an enormous gap to be filled.
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Re: The End of an Era

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 25 May 2015, 4:15 pm

kingraf wrote:So Shivnarine Chandepaul has been dropped from the West Indian line up for the tour of Australia.Always sad to see great players carry on for so long they have to be taken out to the back, but he's has a magnificent career. That Hundred against Australia is still one of the more remarkable knocks in cricketing history, dead rubber or no. He was also an capable apprentice when Brian Lara had the force with him during the 1996 World Cup Quarter  final against South Africa. Splendid, if ungainly player, and an enormous gap to be filled.

I actually like players, including former great players, to adopt the attitude of ''I'll play until you no longer want me'' rather than suddenly announce their retirement and flounce off leaving others in the lurch. Anyway, a very fine player who has certainly put in the miles over the years.

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Re: The End of an Era

Post by alfie on Mon 25 May 2015, 4:22 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
kingraf wrote:So Shivnarine Chandepaul has been dropped from the West Indian line up for the tour of Australia.Always sad to see great players carry on for so long they have to be taken out to the back, but he's has a magnificent career. That Hundred against Australia is still one of the more remarkable knocks in cricketing history, dead rubber or no. He was also an capable apprentice when Brian Lara had the force with him during the 1996 World Cup Quarter  final against South Africa. Splendid, if ungainly player, and an enormous gap to be filled.

I actually like players, including former great players, to adopt the attitude of ''I'll play until you no longer want me'' rather than suddenly announce their retirement and flounce off leaving others in the lurch. Anyway, a very fine player who has certainly put in the miles over the years.

Agreed. We shouldn't seek to impose our own wishes on sportsmen : some like to go out on top ; others will rage against the dying of the light...
Up to each individual I reckon. Sad end might be more for the fans than the man himself.

A fine , courageous player thumbsup

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Re: The End of an Era

Post by GSC on Mon 25 May 2015, 4:26 pm

Still remember that tour of England where he basically batted all the way through the series unbeaten until the final innings.
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Re: The End of an Era

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 25 May 2015, 7:18 pm

yeah it was awful to see KP labour on well past his sell by date Whistle

Shivs retirement has been pretty gradual and I really dont think the Windes wanted to admit he was done, or have even more perception that rats were fleeing the sunken ship with him retiring fully till he absolutely had to. Its not like they have a great stock of proper batsmen (that they are willing to pick) in line to fill the gap so it shouldnt be any great shock he was maybe kept on too long.


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Re: The End of an Era

Post by KP_fan on Tue 26 May 2015, 2:35 pm

A tough nut......who started as a 19 year old in the shadow of Lara's world record series...and forever looked 19.

Salute to a modern great clap ....who did yeoman service to this team starting from the start of their decline era....and serving them with dignity well through their cricketing Nadir.....and going out when there is a glimmer of a resurgence.

One series too far.....though Windies cricket owed him that much.
If he was more astute....he would have called time at the end of last test match.
If Windies board had more courtesy and sense of gratitude... they would have called him to have a chat...and asked him to announce retirement and some kind of farewell.
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Re: The End of an Era

Post by msp83 on Tue 26 May 2015, 8:22 pm

KP_fan wrote:A tough nut......who started as a 19 year old in the shadow of Lara's world record series...and forever looked 19.

Salute to a modern great clap ....who did yeoman service to this team starting from the start of their decline era....and serving them with dignity well through their cricketing Nadir.....and going out when there is a glimmer of a resurgence.

One series too far.....though Windies cricket owed him that much.
If he was more astute....he would have called time at the end of last test match.
If Windies  board had more courtesy and sense of gratitude... they would have called him to have a chat...and asked him to announce retirement and some kind of farewell.
Agree with all that.......
A great servant of the game.......

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Re: The End of an Era

Post by KP_fan on Wed 27 May 2015, 7:50 pm

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Re: The End of an Era

Post by msp83 on Wed 27 May 2015, 8:06 pm

Thought the selectors should have given Chanderpaul an indication before the England series as to how they were going about his future. He most certainly earned that, and King Brian Charles of Trinidad is absolutely right that it was despicable that Chanders was kept in the dark about this.
But I am not sure he should have been given a farewell series just like that. The best team has to play and all that.......
Now, it is another question whether there is enough batting talent coming out of the region who can step into the Chanderpaul position just as easily....... It shouldn't be forgotten that Chanderpaul did show some stickability even during the England series though none of the starts he managed was converted into a half-decent score by his standards. When a rather immature and often irresponsible Marlon Samuels with middling stats is the senior most in your batting lineup, even in his decline, it could be asked whether the selectors decided a bit too soon that Chanders is done? I could understand if there was a semi-decent opener partnering Kraigg Brathwaite. Gayle's not been selected it should be remembered.

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Re: The End of an Era

Post by Mike Selig on Wed 27 May 2015, 8:17 pm

Couldn't agree with Lara less. You don't earn a farewell series out of loyalty etc. Once you stop being good enough then you get pushed/cajoled.

This idea of West Indies somehow "owing" Chanderpaul is really putting sentimentality before performance. The whole sentimentality over Sachin in India was frankly too much also, and confirmed the suspicion that the BCCI viewed his marketability as preferable to on-field results. In fact the whole thing of announcing your retirement in advance (thus basically making yourself undroppable and the centre of attention for the duration of the series)... meh, I don't like it.

Word on the grapevine that I've heard is that Chanderpaul was offered the chance to retire, and refused. In that case fair enough to drop him, if the West Indies believe that they are better served without him.

That is another question, but the young kid who opened in the final game against England looked OK and apparently is a middle-order player so maybe he'll move into that slot. Which leaves the entirely different question of who opens. I admit to not knowing enough about the talent coming through, so don't feel entirely qualified to comment, but I will say that Chanderpaul has been in steady decline for about a year now, and the England series showed no signs of halting it.

None of this should detract from a brilliant career. Someone who started out as a bit of a basher, worked hard on his game, became the ultimate grafter and for long periods the sole resistance in a weak batting line-up. If you were to be hyper-critical it would be that at times when batting with the tail he seemed too content to expose them and finish not out in the process. Undoubtedly a great of his era though.

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Re: The End of an Era

Post by msp83 on Wed 27 May 2015, 8:23 pm

The Chanderpaul/VVS style of batting with the lower order has had some positive results as well. VVS and Ishant against Australia, VVS and RP Singh against Australia, Chanderpaul and Bishoo against Pakistan.......
Young Shai Hope it seems, is highly rated, and is a middle order player, and I think he should come down the order. But the state of opening batsmen in the West Indies was mae clear when they picked the completely hopeless, an utterly unselectable for even Zimbabwe or Bangladesh Devon Smith to play a couple of tests against England recently.......

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Re: The End of an Era

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 28 May 2015, 6:20 pm

Mike Selig wrote:In fact the whole thing of announcing your retirement in advance (thus basically making yourself undroppable and the centre of attention for the duration of the series)... meh, I don't like it.

Agree with this 100%. All of a sudden the players retirement seems to become more important than the game.

For me the worst, though not the longest retirement parade, was Murali. Announced at the start of July that he woudl be retiring at the end of the test v India that was starting a few weeks later. Note that was to be after the fist test of a 3 match series - and that game chosen so he could play his last match at his home ground. Too much sentimentality.

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Re: The End of an Era

Post by KP_fan on Thu 28 May 2015, 9:43 pm

in principle Lara is right.......Chanderpaul deserved a dignified exit....bring him, have a chat, ask him to announce retirement....in my view tainted by my culture.

whether to give a farewell  test and a dignified exit...or not is dependent on that nation's culture....India did that for their stars....
as did Aus...Waugh got a full series and Warne, McGrath etc went out gracefully.

I can bet ya...Clarke will go out with similar dignity and with a farewell as will Haddin...perhaps not too distant in future.

Eng is at the other end....has a culture of using and disposing their stars and coaches alike....with what seems a deliberate dose of insult to the outsiders like me.

To the English perhaps....it's a way of "not showing emotional weakness" & tough professionals  ?

That's why managing across cultures is not easy in any walk of life
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