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The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 9:11 am

Some news from the Aussie camp

Chris Rogers will miss the first test with a head injury
Steve Smith has been promoted to bat 3 (hate it hate it hate it leave him alone)
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 10:50 am

Just to point out, it is the first Test v WI that Rogers has been ruled out of.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by NickisBHAFC on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 9:09 pm

Laugh

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 10:03 pm

I think we all realise that the odd hiccough goes with the territory for every poster. thumbsup

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Stella on Wed 03 Jun 2015, 9:04 am

As mentioned on another thread, I still feel England will go in unchanged from the second test vs New Zealand. This may of course depend on the county form of Ali, and possibly Bell, though I'm convinced he'll play.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Jun 2015, 5:02 pm

England to win the series - 7/2
England to win 3-0 - 100/1
Joe Root to be England's top batsman - 13/4

Marvellous. Combine the trio for around 921/1.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Thu 04 Jun 2015, 9:48 am

England very very likely to go in unchanged if everyone is fit and available and trusted.
Ali would be hoping for some overs and some wickets in CC. otherwise the pressure will be huge on him. If Rashid can make an impression in the ODI series, he might yet force a change of heart. Bell too would want runs and confidence from the CC games.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Jetty on Sat 06 Jun 2015, 3:03 am

I think Woakes wil be back.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 06 Jun 2015, 2:08 pm

Jetty wrote:I think Woakes wil be back.

In place of ?  Agree Woakes is a talent ; but I think it would be hard on either Wood or Stokes to be discarded now.  Stokes at Lords was seriously game-changing. And Wood looks to have something that just might unsettle the Australian bats ...
Don't think England can afford to "play safe".  Although I suspect Woakes will probably play at some point in the series.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Jetty on Sun 07 Jun 2015, 12:36 am

Cook Lyth Ballance Bell Root Ali Buttler Woakes Broad Wood Anderson

It would seem very unfair on Stokes but Stokes is mainly in for his batting. He replaced the injured Woakes. Last match against India Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Jordan, Ali.

Just had another idea - If Ballance or Bell don't get cc runs then keep Stokes in and drop one of them. Smile

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Sun 07 Jun 2015, 7:16 am

921-1 sounds good, but it also sounds reasonable, given the unlikelihood of England winning 3-0, there should be decent odds for England to win and Root to be top bat though, like 25-1ish?
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 07 Jun 2015, 3:36 pm

An outsider who I reckon might get a game this summer

Mark Footitt of Derbyshire. Excellent left arm seam bowler taking wickets for fun
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 10:12 pm

https://twitter.com/thehughesboy

Adam Lyth took an absolute worldie at slip today for Yorkshire (see vine on this guys timeline) - but we don't have him field at slip due to "seniority"  Rolling Eyes
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 10:35 pm

Odds: Root at 13-4 to be England's top batsman seems generous enough for a start (although now Cook seems to have rediscovered some form maybe not?). England 7-2 to win also strikes me as generous. I make Aus favourites but not by that much.

A lot of people seem to be assuming Aus will walk this but really? Warner as an opener could go both ways, Smith is still very much untested at 3, Clarke has his hamstring, whoever bats 5 and 6 will be under some pressure. The bowling looks very good and there is plenty of depth there, but Johnson was on fire coming to England last time and we all remember that; Starc remains a bit hit and miss in tests; etc.

Look Australia are a good side, but let's not kid ourselves that they are unbeatable.

I do think England have to invest in Stokes and pick him at 6 for a while. Clearly he has the potential to be something a bit special. With that in mind if Woakes is to return it's probably as 3rd seamer, and given Wood's fitness issues and concerns over the balance of the bowling attack that could easily happen.

I'm pleased Mark Footitt seems to be realising some of his promise at Derbyshire. I remember when he first burst onto the scene at Notts most people thought he'd play for England, but then he had some injury/fitness concerns and lost his way a bit.

My left-field tip would be James Harris - another who seems to be recovering a bit of his early promise.

As for Lyth and the slips debate... I doubt "seniority" was the reason for Lyth not fielding in the slips, I suspect it was more to do with the coaching staff thinking that the other guys they had there were better. But then I tend to think that the coaching staff are more worried about things like winning matches than some kind of imagined dressing-room hierarchy, so I'm probably being unreasonable...
Wasn't Carberry reputed to be a fantastic fielder etc but then turned out to be a bit pants in an England shirt? County cricket to international cricket is a step up in a lot of thing, fielding included...

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by alfie on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 1:27 pm

Delighted to see someone else thinks the result of the Ashes Series isn't a foregone conclusion !
I agree Australia start favourites , for the obvious reason that England are very much a work in progress at the moment. But their own "away" record hasn't been brilliant recently ; and I do think their batting remains fallible - consider how often the tail has bailed them out , even in matches they have eventually won handsomely.
The Australian bowling does look good. (And of course the same fellows supply a very handy strongly wagging tail) ; and that , and the fragility of the England batting looks to me the big obstacle for England to overcome. But who knows ? Harris has been the key man in recent series against England with the new ball , even though his contribution has been somewhat overlooked in the spectacular Johnson success in Australia : if age and injury render him less effective , then it is possible England may gather enough runs to get into the contest...
Certainly not suggesting anyone risk their rent money even at 7-2 ; but neither am I ready to concede the series before a ball has been bowled.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Jun 2015, 10:22 pm

Get the feeling that the Aussies sheer demolition of the Windies is being overlooked slightly due to the ODI series...but it's ominous
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Jun 2015, 10:39 pm

Olly - I fear you're definitely right. The Aussies are going to have increased self confidence which will only add to their strength.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by king_carlos on Sun 14 Jun 2015, 10:56 pm

This is without Chris Rogers and Ryan Harris available as well.

Hazlewood has really thrown his hand up as yet another seamer for their battery in both this and the series vs India.

Voges as well has shown up well when finally getting a test chance. He adds another player with extensive knowledge of English conditions as well.

1.Rogers
2.Warner
3.Smith
4.Clarke
5.Voges
6.Watson
7.Haddin (wk)
8.Johnson
9.Lyon
10.Harris, Hazlewood or Siddle
11.Starc

Lots of experience, class and pace.

I think it's fair to expect some rotation of the seamers to keep them at full pace.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by JDizzle on Sun 14 Jun 2015, 11:09 pm

Of no real relevance to the series, but quite an astonishing stat I heard the other day when Smith was dismissed on 199; that the last Australian to make a double century away from home was Dizzy Gillespie. And he's a Yorkie now anyway! Wink

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 15 Jun 2015, 9:07 pm

I've decide that if we're not playing the following team in the UAE we're doing cricket wrong

Cook
Ansari
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Not a line up in the world that could handle Moeen, Rashid and Ansari on turners I'm telling thee
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by The Loaded Dog on Tue 16 Jun 2015, 2:51 am

UAE? When is England touring there? Can't see anything about that on the FTP schedule. Must be later in the year or in 2016, yeah?
I must be missing something.

Surely there are more pressing concerns currently. Nothing is a fait accompli for this year's Ashes and despite the recent form of both sides strange things can and do happen as we all know.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 Jun 2015, 6:37 pm

2005 and 2009 showed that Aussies don't like it up them... !!!

Send them in at Glamorgan....Get into them early ......Plenty of chat and then watch them shrink as the series go on !!

Fancy England over here with the swinging ball.............3-1 !!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Wed 17 Jun 2015, 7:56 am

Ian Bell scored a hundred in the CC. Perhaps that would help him recover a bit confidence going into the Ashes.
But Moeen Ali, who should otherwise have been an automatic selection in the ODI side, after being send to get some overs under his belt and get things right with the ball, not bowling much and not making much impact in the longer formats. He's making useful runs in T-20s for his county, but there is not much progress on the bowling front.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Wed 17 Jun 2015, 8:01 am

Meanwhile Australia will have some selection dilemma on hand with the bowling unit. At the moment Mitchell Johnson seems the bowler who is slightly less effective than the other 2 who have been playing, Starc and Hazelwood. And then there is the Ryano to come back in as well. Starc has been an impact bowler in the West Indies, whenever he got wickets, he got them quick and in bulk! Hazelwood is starting to justify some of the early comparisons made to McGrath.......
Which way would Clarke and Lehmann go?

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Wed 17 Jun 2015, 8:08 am

England tours UAE later in the year.

As for the Ashes, yeah on paper, with form etc looked at, you'd think England are in a world of trouble. But they have opportunities. Smith and Clarke make a world class 3 & 4, but there's a question mark around their 5,6,7. Overall, I'd say Aus to win, maybe 3-0, or 2-1, but England can certainly spring a surprise, with Cook and
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by king_carlos on Wed 17 Jun 2015, 6:16 pm

As with all big test series it's going to be decided by which sides big players step up and take control. For England especially that will mean their experienced players in Cook, Bell, Broad and Anderson fronting up.

If Cook can provide England with the sort of base he is capable of at his best and Bell/Root can then take advantage of that base it will be a very good series. Likewise if Broad can finally start showing some consistency rather than bowling one great spell a series and Jimmy can bowl as well as he has in English conditions for years.

However if we allow Warner, Smith and Clarke to get big runs up quickly it will set Australia up perfectly for the chosen three from Johnson, Harris, Hazlewood, Starc and Siddle to run rampant.

It's sounds like pointing out the obvious but it really will be a series decided by which teams top order and opening bowlers stand up when most needed.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Wed 17 Jun 2015, 6:41 pm

Where is Siddle in the pecking order for Australia? Don't think he's right up there any more.......

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 11:10 am

England to go on a pre ashes camp to Spain - 14 man squad includes Finn and Footitt
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:58 pm

England training squad ....
Alastair Cook, Moeen Ali, James Anderson, Gary Ballance, Ian Bell, Stuart Broad, Jos Buttler, Steven Finn, Mark Footitt, Adam Lyth, Liam Plunkett, Joe Root, Ben Stokes, Mark Wood

No first point .. no Rashid will make the pundits and internet flip out. Question : If Ali had taken 5 wickets nearly 55 each with an economy of over 7 would anyone be demanding his inclussion in the test side? # justsaying

Footitt over Willey. OK yes England will pick a left armer regardless, Bayliss needs one in his life. Like when England used to pick guys like Khan because they couldnt get over Harmissons breif spell as an effective fast bowler.
Both are having decent CC seasons and actually have pretty good first class records. 1 has been in the ODI side doing well after coming through the Lions. The other got creamed when the selectors went to see him in action yesterdsay. One can hold a bat, the other cant. No brainer which youd select for the test side then chin

Jordan falling out is no shock really.


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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by alfie on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 2:27 pm

I wouldn't really expect either Footit or Willey to play in the Ashes. I think the presence of a fast left armer in the training squad might have something to do with wanting to accustom the bats to a possible double barreled left arm attack from the Aussies (as well as reasonably enough having a look at Footit) Willey took some wickets in the ODIs (might take some more at the weekend !) but I think he might not be quick enough to appeal for the Tests - where I imagine the status quo will prevail for now ; with Plunkett probably first reserve.
Rashid presumably didn't do enough to earn a chance yet : I've thought all along he is more likely to get his opportunity in the UAE - though if Moeen doesn't get it right in the first couple of Tests , who knows ?
No "spare" bats , just fast bowling reserves...without Jordan.
Shows they are ready to go in unchanged from the NZ Tests , and fair enough too , I think. That group has earned first crack at the Australians ; if they are all still there for the third match I guess England will be doing well...

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 4:14 pm

Since Ali has been setting the county seen alight with his offspin after being asked to get some red ball bowling under his belt, he of course is the most deserving choice!!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by king_carlos on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:20 pm

msp83 wrote:Where is Siddle in the pecking order for Australia? Don't think he's right up there any more.......

Of those 5 likely to be in the Aus squad he will be bottom of the pile below Johnson, Harris, Starc and Hazlewood.

However, his experience in English conditions, great record in Ashes series and the likelihood that Lehman will rotate his seamers mean it isn't out of the realms of possibility that he will feature.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:50 pm

msp83 wrote:Since Ali has been setting the county seen alight with his offspin after being asked to get some red ball bowling under his belt, he of course is the most deserving choice!!

Msp - I obviously take your sledgehammer point but, given it was generally accepted that the New Zealand 50 over games were a Test audition for Rashid, believe you have to also consider whether your man has set the international scene alight with his legspin.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 10:47 pm

Yeah Rashid has been "ok" but nothing to show he deserves a test slot yet
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 11:06 pm

Ali has another CC game and possibly another T20 before they fly out for the training camp ...maybe he will get to bowl some overs in this one.

It does seem with the bowlers theyve made a decision for now that they want Rashid concentrating on the short form and Ali to sort his form out for tests.

The Footit Wley thing ...is one especially faster than the other? I cant really see anything that suggests why they would see Willey as a limited overs player but completely overlook him for the test squad for a very similar bowler.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 11:11 pm

And what exactly has Ali done in county cricket as such? Particularly as he was 'rested' from the ODI squad to get lots of overs under his belt and get his bowling back on track? Rashid had an outstanding first game, since then he hasn't been doing anything outlandish. But he hasn't disgraced himself totally either, and since they all talk about Ali's batting, lets not set aside Rashid's decent batting output as well.
Anyways the best thing that the selectors did to Moeen the bowler is not to play him in the ODI series where the bowlers are officially classed as 2nd class citizens.
So England to go in unchanged for the first couple of Ashes tests unless there are fitness concerns.......

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 11:32 pm

msp83 wrote:And what exactly has Ali done in county cricket as such?
.......

Not that much. However, as I tried to make clear earlier, rather than rely upon making a case as to why Ali or others shouldn't be picked, Rashid needs to make his own case as to why he should be picked. I'll keep my jury out for now but imo Rashid has so far failed to make that case convincingly.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 19 Jun 2015, 2:51 am

msp83 wrote:And what exactly has Ali done in county cricket as such? Particularly as he was 'rested' from the ODI squad to get lots of overs under his belt and get his bowling back on track? Rashid had an outstanding first game, since then he hasn't been doing anything outlandish. But he hasn't disgraced himself totally either, and since they all talk about Ali's batting, lets not set aside Rashid's decent batting output as well.
Anyways the best thing that the selectors did to Moeen the bowler is not to play him in the ODI series where the bowlers are officially classed as 2nd class citizens.
So England to go in unchanged for the first couple of  Ashes tests unless there are fitness concerns.......

Broken Record

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by king_carlos on Fri 19 Jun 2015, 10:25 pm

Gooseberry wrote:The Footit Wley thing ...is one especially faster than the other? I cant really see anything that suggests why they would see Willey as a limited overs player but completely overlook him for the test squad for a very similar bowler.

Footit is significantly faster yes. He isn't rapid but can regularly touch 90 similar to Plunkett. He had injury problems for a fair few years which held back his development but he seems to have sorted them out now and has bowled consistently well in the CC. I think it's a good selection personally.

Can someone explain to me what Chris Rushworth has to do to get a sniff of national recognition however. His bowling figures for the last 4 seasons are:

2012 county championship - 38 wickets, average 16.39

2013 county championship - 54 wickets, average 22.26

2014 county championship - 64 wickets, average 24.66

2015 county championship thus far - 46 wickets, average 20.8

All that done in division one as well.

He has consistently been one of the standout bowlers in division 1 for the last 4 seasons, only really surpassed by Magoffin last season and Onions in '12 and '13. Yet he hasn't even had a Lions call!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 2:54 pm

Former England offspinner Graeme Swann thinks not picking Adil Rashid for the West Indies tests was a massive mistake. He thinks that Moeen Ali should start the Ashes series....... Think Start is the operational word.......
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/889181.html

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 3:04 pm

msp83 wrote:Former England offspinner Graeme Swann thinks not picking Adil Rashid for the West Indies tests was a massive mistake. He thinks that Moeen Ali should start the Ashes series

I agree with both of those from Swanny.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 9:48 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
msp83 wrote:Former England offspinner Graeme Swann thinks not picking Adil Rashid for the West Indies tests was a massive mistake. He thinks that Moeen Ali should start the Ashes series

I agree with both of those from Swanny.

And Beefy said Rashid should have played in the West Indies and should be in for the First Test. Yes I know they are different formats but Rashid's use to the team was far higher in these ODI's than Ali's has been in his last three series.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 6:31 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
msp83 wrote:Former England offspinner Graeme Swann thinks not picking Adil Rashid for the West Indies tests was a massive mistake. He thinks that Moeen Ali should start the Ashes series

I agree with both of those from Swanny.

And Beefy said Rashid should have played in the West Indies and should be in for the First Test. Yes I know they are different formats but Rashid's use to the team was far higher in these ODI's than Ali's has been in his last three series.

On that basis morgan who was useless for england for over a year should have been dropped for morgan whos been brilliant in this series. Despite two good games with the ball hes not got great figures from the odi series and has been creamed for runs in 3 of the 5 game. The only stat where Rashid in this series and Ali in the last 3 majorly differ is bowling economy....Ali 4.8 vs Rashid 6.6 ...which arguably is where the key lies. Ali has shown he can bowl tight in interntaional cricket ..although after coming back yes he has bowled rubbish and not done that, but does have a proven ability to do it. Rashid has always been expensive in ODIs even prior to the recent score inflation.

The argument that Rashid shouldve played in the windies is more legit, even Ali has said he wasnt ready. T make the leap that equates to he should therefor play in this regardles of ow he might do is another thing.

He has been consistently overlooked for the test side by a number of coaches despite being in or around the squad and having a number of very strong CC seasons. There must be more to it than a general concern about legspinners. Scott Borthwick managed to get a game when Rashid was in a slump.

Botham tends to get a real bone for certain players. He spent years banging on about Shah being the greatest player ever, and Sky n general are appalling for over egging selection issues.  Im far from anti Rashid and was very surprised he didnt get the nod in the west indies but thats a thing now.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 9:02 am

I am certain there would not have been this predicament now if Rashid had been given even just one Test in the West Indies. It does look a given that Ali will play in the First Test which (in my opinion and in his current toothlessness in bowling) will prove calamitous for England in the Ashes. There has been series of dross from Ali - that is the fact of the matter and yet it gets him a place in the Ashes side. Yes I know people will spout there is nobody else but Rashid has shown more in these ODI's than Ali has and has actually the best figures of all of the spinners in the series. Get him in or die wondering.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 9:35 am

Moeen Ali averages under 30 with the ball in test cricket and people want to replace him - Jesus wept
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 12:19 pm

Olly wrote:Moeen Ali averages under 30 with the ball in test cricket and people want to replace him - Jesus wept

Mark my words England will live to regret it.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 12:49 pm

Rashid would be a woeful selection.

It was only last year that Ali took 19 wickets, averaging 23, against some very proficient players of spin. Stick with Ali; not dispense with him at the first hiccough.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 1:00 pm

The first hiccough? There have been three of those back-to-back. making it akin to a coughing fit.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 1:05 pm

Well Moeen has only had one poor series since the India one - against New Zealand.

Against the Windies, he kept good control with a tidy average of below 35 on pitches largely unconductive to spin.

I'm not sure where three comes from...?

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 1:13 pm

I certainly would disagree about Ali being decent with control in the Windies. Treadwell was more impressive than Ali but we shall agree to disagree on the Ali-Rashid issue. Hug
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Re: The Ashes Thread

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