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The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 9:11 am

First topic message reminder :

Some news from the Aussie camp

Chris Rogers will miss the first test with a head injury
Steve Smith has been promoted to bat 3 (hate it hate it hate it leave him alone)
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 25 Jun 2015, 4:30 pm

msp83 wrote:Think they should have given Tredwell a game there, perhaps could have given some indication as to how he would go against the Australians, all be it in a practice game. With England's spin situation, you can't entirely rule him out yet......

Msp - perhaps more a case of the England selectors making sure Kent kept our powder dry. Wink

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Thu 25 Jun 2015, 8:37 pm

Can't really put it pass them, Guildford!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 8:22 am

So the suspiscion is that England are trying to get Australia to pick Rogers AND Marsh

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 8:30 am

Gooseberry wrote:So the suspiscion is that England are trying to get Australia to pick Rogers AND Marsh

It does seem bizarre that under blue skies on a blameless pitch Kent won the toss and put the Aussies in. Does anyone know how this works? Would they be instructed by the ECB to do that? I can't believe if that was a CC match they would have bowled first!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 9:22 am

Answering my own question, seems its an unwritten rule to invite the touring team to bat first in such matches. This also has the benefit of potentially larger gate receipts as the game is almost guaranteed to last 4 days. Makes sense I suppose!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Azzy on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 9:49 am

As an Essex fan, it's great to see Australia smashing Kent. As an England fan, it's worrying. But I have faith that after 4 innings of Bell failures, when we drop him and pick someone else, we'll win the Ashes 3-2.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 1:51 pm

As an England fan you should be bothered they are getting runs and plenty of batting practice out in the middle..


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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 3:20 pm

Two former England players Key and Denly putting together a decent partnership here. Are they fancying themselves for a recall? Run

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Duty281 on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 4:01 pm

Entirely as expected, the Australian bowlers are struggling. Whistle

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 4:09 pm

Australians not playing Hazelwood and Starc, as well as Lyon. What does that indicate? Think its the right call to play Johnson as he needs to get used to bowling in English conditions and be match ready, and right to get Harris going as well. Giving Fawad a run is also understandable. But Peter Siddle, who has limited chances of starting the first test, and is more of an injury backup for this series as of now getting a game over both Starc and Hazelwood? Australia should have played one of them at least here.
Do they have another practice game before the first test?

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 4:29 pm

Msp - before for the first Test, Australia also have a 4 day game against Essex. That's being played at Chelmsford where the track has attracted a lot of criticism this season for being of poor quality and too helpful to seamers.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 7:49 pm

Thanks, Guildford.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Fri 26 Jun 2015, 8:10 pm

MJ is switched on, but the all-rounder question and the makeup of the pace attack need to take better shape for Australia. Think Australia should have picked James Faulkner in the test side, think he's much better as an all-round package than either Marsh or Watson. Better bowler than both of them, not too bad with the bat either. Fine fielder and a fabulous temperament.......

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Sat 27 Jun 2015, 6:23 pm

Kent getting bowled out for 280 with Johnson taking 4 wickets. Ryan Harris found himself among the wickets today with a couple of strikes too.
Then Shane Watson made 81 and Mitchell Marsh a hundred. Marsh took a wicket earlier and Watson didn bowl at all even though the parttime legspin fof Steven Smith was called upon for 3 overs.
Another interesting thing was that Mitchell Johnson batted at 6....... Will Clarke have a surprise for us? But then, Clarke opened and Smith didn't bat, neither did Shaun Marsh.......

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by SimonofSurrey on Sun 28 Jun 2015, 7:08 pm

pppffft: whose bright idea was it to give the Aussies a nice gentle confidence boosting warm up game against statistically the weakest 4 day County in the land?

It would have been much nicer to see them given a stern, less accommodating welcome against, for example, a Lions XI full of promising youngsters unlikely to feature in the upcoming Ashes series but with many a point to prove (including maybe Hales, Roy, Taylor, Vince, Bairstow, and some promising young bowlers).

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by king_carlos on Sun 28 Jun 2015, 7:26 pm

Simon

I understand where you are coming from but these games aren't anything more than a training run out in the middle. The tradition of the visiting side being put in first, orders constantly rejigged and players retiring out summing that up.

Secondly Kent put out a stronger side than many counties often field for these games with Denly and Key being former internationals, Billings now an international, Northeast rapidly turning into one of most consistent performers on the county circuit and Bell-Drummond considered a big talent.

Their attack may not be the strongest but Claydon is a very experience county performer, Thomas has been solid this season and Hunn impressed on debut. It also wasn't long ago that people were putting Riley forward as a test option for England!

A Lions game could work on the face of it but given many of the players likely to be involved have just been away on ODI and t20 duty it would also remove yet more international players from their counties.
A side such as below would have been interesting in that sort of match though a will concede.

1.Robson
2.Lees
3.Hales
4.Taylor (c)
5.Vince
6.Bairstow (wk)
7.Rashid
8.Plunkett
9.Overton
10.Rushworth
11.Finn

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 28 Jun 2015, 7:30 pm

Carlos - not surprised to see Rushworth in your team. Keep banging that drum! Smile

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Sun 28 Jun 2015, 7:59 pm

So Johnson won't be playing the next warm-up but Ryan Harris will be, so will Hazelwood and Starc.
The Australian coach made it pretty clear that Harris should be in a position to offer around 20 overs per day if he has to make it. Think if all are fit, they arelikely to go in with Johnson, Starc and Hazelwood unless Harris pulls off something dramatic in the practice game.
Lehmann also made it clear that the all-rounder position is pretty much open and that Shane Watson, who didn't bowl in the Kent game will have to bowl well to hold his place and that he'll bowl in the next game.......

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 28 Jun 2015, 10:13 pm

Adam Riley - took 57 wickets at 30 last season for Kent, goes away with the Lions in the winter - the exceptionally idiotic coaches make him remodel his action - only 8 wickets at 70 this season.

Chalk him down as another one lost to the English setup #shambles
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 28 Jun 2015, 10:25 pm

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 29 Jun 2015, 9:53 am

Olly wrote:Adam Riley - took 57 wickets at 30 last season for Kent, goes away with the Lions in the winter - the exceptionally idiotic coaches make him remodel his action - only 8 wickets at 70 this season.

Chalk him down as another one lost to the English setup #shambles

I sometimes think that coaches feel they have to justify their salary by doing something.

Now I fully accept that YCCC members are a bunch of moaning minnies, but there is a semblance of truth in their complaints that England keep handing back players who are worse than when they took them due to the fiddling that happens with technique. A complaint I have heard from members of other counties quite frequently.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 29 Jun 2015, 10:55 am

That and they went through extensive research showing the damage that dodgy actions were doing to players bodies and their relation to injury rates.
What they seem to have acehived in return though is to prolong players ability to walk pain free by stopping them bowling at all.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by king_carlos on Tue 30 Jun 2015, 8:40 am

guildfordbat wrote:Carlos - not surprised to see Rushworth in your team. Keep banging that drum! Smile

I'm always on the lookout for CC performances to be rewarded as long as they agree with my bias towards the players I'm usually peddling guildford. Wink

LT - Sorry for such a late response but I remember seeing a post from yourself after my last rant on this topic stating that the selectors have spoken to Collingwood about Rushworth. What vaguely was said in that interview if you can remember?

Apologies again for being so late on the uptake there but I can't find anything elsewhere other than an interview with Rushworth himself.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 30 Jun 2015, 9:02 am

I had seen a tweet from Colly on a CricInfo feed to say that the selectors had enquired about him. Cannot see anything on his actual account though.

I suspect there are two factors counting against him:

1) the perception that Chester-le-Street is overly seam friendly
2) Perception that Rushworth lacks pace.

Cannot comment on the second.

As to the first the scores at C-s-L this season:

335, 339, 265, 263/4
245, 163, 178, 261/4
189, 225, 314, 158

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by king_carlos on Tue 30 Jun 2015, 9:17 am

Cheers LT.

I agree those are likely the factors against him.

However the first didn't prevent Mark Wood being selected - or succeeding thus far. Nor did it prevent Graham Onions from performing strongly in the tests when he wasn't injured.

On the second I accept many good county bowlers have struggled at international level due to a lack of pace. However many fast-medium bowlers have succeeded excellently as well. Hoggard is as good an example of this as any given that of the '05 attack he took more test wickets than Harmison or Flintoff at a better strike rate and average.

I wouldn't want him parachuted in for the Ashes as I think Anderson, Broad and Wood complemented by Stokes and Ali/Rashid is as good as we have for the series. However he can't do much more to deserve a chance in the Lions at least.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Tue 30 Jun 2015, 9:19 am

Anyone take note of the batting heroics of Bairstow and Bresnan yesterday? They set the all-time CC record for the 7th wicket!

Bairstow must be next in line for the middle order this summer, he is in incredible form, whilst James Taylor is in horrendous touch. Bres much more of an outsider but would not rule him out if say Broad got injured.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 30 Jun 2015, 9:44 am

If things do not go well for Bell or Ballance in the first couple of tests then there may well be a vacancy. Even if Bell (a player I really like) makes it through the Ashes, age is not on his side. so if we need a new middle order batter, Jonny is doing everything he can to grab that spot. Since returning from the WI tour (where remember he was just a water carrier) this is his 5th CC match. He has (including this double) 3 centuries and 3 50s in 8 innings. Only match he failed to score runs in was the innings win over Notts last week, where he missed the first two days on England T20 duty.


Even without changes, I wonder if they will look at adjusting the batting order slightly? after all at Yorkshire Root would be more likely to bat at 3 and Ballance at 5. While loathe to mess with Root's form, and accepting that Ballance has overall been a success at 3 so far, I do feel it would suit the team more for that to be replicated for England.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Tue 30 Jun 2015, 10:03 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Even without changes, I wonder if they will look at adjusting the batting order slightly? after all at Yorkshire Root would be more likely to bat at 3 and Ballance at 5. While loathe to mess with Root's form, and accepting that Ballance has overall been a success at 3 so far, I do feel it would suit the team more for that to be replicated for England.

Well they always used to say get your best player in at 3. Root is certainly that at the moment, though as you say moving him around is a fine line as it did not go very well before. I also wonder if Ballance has been found out at 3, if there's a weakness there the Aussies will certainly exploit it repeatedly

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 9:10 am

VTR wrote: I also wonder if Ballance has been found out at 3, if there's a weakness there the Aussies will certainly exploit it repeatedly

Well I think the Aussies found out everything they needed to about Ballance last time he faced them. Ands its not exactly like they have a plan for anyone other than bowl fast and hope Johnson has a good day anyway.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 9:19 am

VTR wrote:Anyone take note of the batting heroics of Bairstow and Bresnan yesterday? They set the all-time CC record for the 7th wicket!

Bairstow must be next in line for the middle order this summer, he is in incredible form, whilst James Taylor is in horrendous touch. Bres much more of an outsider but would not rule him out if say Broad got injured.

Bairstow is so frustrating like this. He certainly must be next in line for the gloves if Buttler explodes.

Bresnan Id see more as a potential Stokes replacement than a front line bowler. His batting form has been better than his bowling so far and England have a number of seamers around the squad who are their on their bowling

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 10:12 am

Should your best player really bat in at three? Looking purely from a recent perspective. When Michael Clarke established himself as Asutralia's premier batsman, there were no cries to have him bat three. Four, yeah, but not three. Similarly, did anybody really feel the pressing need to bat KP at three? Looking locally, once we developed a team which didn't have a long list of try hards, Kallis basically moved down to four. When Kallis retired, Amla moved himself to four. Not a huge difference, certainly not one to justify a move for the sake of moving. But I think recent trends suggest getting your best Bat in at four.

Of course Steve Smith's recent promotion somewhat disproves this theory, but dammit, I already typed a paragraph on batting at four. Plus. I think there's an egg in face component, where Aus don't want to accept they got Clarke's batting position wrong, and refuse to move him.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 10:24 am

It i snot necessarily a case of getting your best batter ina particular position, more trying to see what is right for the balance of the side.

KP not a great example as most sources agree he refused to bat first wicket down in 2008 and 2009 when asked

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 10:25 am

Its something you do hear a lot from commentators. But you can pick holes in it almost endlessly, your examples are good ones, or you could look at someone like Mark Butcher batting at three for England!

The theory of course is you protect them from the new ball whilst getting them in as early as possible to maximise their run-scoring. Sound logic on paper I suppose, but maybe not in practice

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 10:35 am

How about we don't p1ss about with the players who are playing well and are comfortable in their position? Just a thought
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 10:47 am

Well, that's what I was getting at, Olly. Root is playing the cricket of his career at five. You could maybe make a case for four, with Bell's travails, and the fact that Bell has had good success at five before, and importantly is a good player of spin, which you almost absolutely have to be when you're a five-six. Three is a little different. You have to have some ability as an auxiliary opener of sorts, since you'll be one in a rather large portion of matches played.

One drop is maybe a huge difference, but I imagine Root's last Ashes series as an opener is probably also a deterrent in batting him up there.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 11:12 am

Olly wrote:How about we don't p1ss about with the players who are playing well and are comfortable in their position? Just a thought

I would rather they didn't mess with Root, he is doing great where he is. There's also talk of lumbering him with the captaincy. They'll have him opening the bowling next! Bell to 3 for me if Ballance fails

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Stella on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 11:15 am

I like Bell at five. An old head around the youngsters. I think and hope Ballance scores a few this summer. Tecnique issues says he won't but he's a gutsy player.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by alfie on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 12:10 pm

I wouldn't mess with the order. Root is in superb form ; and is still getting better as a batsman - I think he could do a good job anywhere in the order. But as he is doing so well at five , why move him ? Great against spin ; has the mental strength to deal with any early collapse - and as I've noted before is particularly adept at batting with the tail. Perfect spot for him , I think.
I am somewhat anxious about Ballance at three : his failures against NZ were a concern : yes he has done brilliantly so far in his career , so it may just be a blip ; but the manner of some of his dismissals hinted that top class fast bowling might be finding him out to a degree.
Not to get too excited , mind - it would be ridiculous to discount his record and panic about him before the series starts. After all his excellent temperament should aid him in finding a way to deal with a
new threat , so he may well adjust successfully ; but I'll be a lot happier once he settles in and plays a solid innings - hopefully in Cardiff !

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 12:17 pm

4 day game between the Australians and Essex began a bit over an hour ago.

The visitors are 78/2. That's probably better than it sounds on the notoriously poor Chelmsford track. Rogers and Clarke back in the hutch for 21 and a duck respectively. Warner has just reached his half ton.

There had been talk of the much troubled Panesar playing in this match for the first time since April but he's not.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 1:42 pm

Rashid is in!!

Footitt and Plunkett miss out

Seems they might go with two spinners at Cardiff according to bayliss
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 1:48 pm

Remind me how that worked out last time?
Still at least they both can bat as well as Monty

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 1:49 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Remind me how that worked out last time?
Still at least they both can bat as well as Monty

I'm not sure we should write off the two spinners because of one game five years ago personally.

If the pitch warrants it, pick em
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Stella on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 1:54 pm

Who will miss out? Wood?
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by dummy_half on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 2:09 pm

Stella wrote:Who will miss out? Wood?

I'd think more likely Stokes - Moeen should be batting top 6 and Rashid is more than good enough to bat 8, while still allowing us to pick 3 out and out seamers.

Not convinced we will be going that way though. More likely it is a case of the selectors wanting to see how Moeen and Rashid are bowling prior to picking the starting XI.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Stella on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 2:17 pm

Stokes?

MOM a couple of tests ago.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 2:30 pm

No way in the world will Stokes not play in the First Test

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by NickisBHAFC on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 2:45 pm

Didn't work out at all in 2009 with 2 spinners

Let's hope this rash decision works!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 2:59 pm

Msp will be happy - unless and until Finn and Rashid fail to make the cut!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 2:59 pm

If you're gonna play two spinners, I can't see space for Stokes. Simply isn't possible. His bowling is too expensive, even on good days for him to be your old ball seamer.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Azzy on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 3:12 pm

Moeen should drop out. He's not a great spinner and we have the batting already. He's superfluous at this stage. Get Rashid in.

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