The Ashes Thread

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The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 9:11 am

First topic message reminder :

Some news from the Aussie camp

Chris Rogers will miss the first test with a head injury
Steve Smith has been promoted to bat 3 (hate it hate it hate it leave him alone)
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Tue 04 Aug 2015, 4:58 pm

king_carlos wrote:It will be interesting to see how the squad as a whole takes shape for the UAE and SA tours. They are two tough places to go and play.

In the UAE we will need the option of 2 spinners which Rashid and Ali will likely fulfil. Could the selectors want a third in the squad to cover injury and offer competition? Or will they want the option of a spinner who can offer their captain some more control? Moeen and Dilly both take wickets but can also go for a few.

With 7 tests in trying conditions we will also need depth to our seamers. Finn returning well is a boost there but the touring party will need another couple of seamers at least. Jimmy is now injured and not getting younger, Wood is injury prone and Broad has often looked fatigued for a couple of seasons. Plunkett and Footit getting called up must have a foot in the door here. Could Woakes or Craig Overton come into the reckoning? Rushworth, Jack Brooks and James Harris are also having strong seasons.

If Bairstow is starting as a batsmen will there be room for another wicket keeper in the squad?

Will we need another opening batsmen to replace Lyth? If Lyth remains the squad will need a 3rd opener anyway.

Will Ballance come back in as middle order cover? If not James Taylor could get a chance. Not a huge number of batsmen are throwing their hands up in CC cricket but Sam Hain is a very impressive young player. Surray bias admitted but Steve Davies is averaging 80 in div 2 and Jason Roy is averaging 55.

Must admit I'm a bit biased being a Bears fan, but I agree that Hain is a very talented prospect. More than a touch of Jonathon Trott about him. Don't know if this winter is a bit early for him but, if he continues to bat as he has, I can see him making the Lions squad (are they touring this winter?), and, hopefully, being in contention for a place in the full squad next year.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 04 Aug 2015, 6:05 pm

Is it Hain or someone else? An upcoming batsman in CC who is an Australian who wants to play for England?

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Tue 04 Aug 2015, 6:16 pm

msp83 wrote:Is it Hain or someone else? An upcoming batsman in CC who is an Australian who wants to play for England?

Hain was born in Hong Kong to two British parents. He was brought up in Australia and has played for their u19 side, but he describes himself as "a fair dinkum pom, to say the least." and says, "The Australia Under-19 thing happened, but I was always set to play in England, ever since I was 14."

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 04 Aug 2015, 7:34 pm

As I mentioned earlier in the year - if we're not playing Moeen, Rashid and Ansari in the UAE we're doing cricket wrong
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by king_carlos on Tue 04 Aug 2015, 7:54 pm

Even as a Surrey supporter I feel that the talk of Ansari is a bit premature.

For the one day side where the turn over of players is more regular I can understand a debate. Especially given we don't have too many stand out spinners and Zafar contributes with bat, ball and fielding.

However I still feel he is finding his role slightly in all three formats and is uncertain of where his best batting position is. As such it is too early for international honours if you ask me.

In first class cricket he also needs to start converting 50s into centuries.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by king_carlos on Tue 04 Aug 2015, 7:55 pm

Sorry wrong thread! Doh


Last edited by king_carlos on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 2:25 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Duty281 on Tue 04 Aug 2015, 8:08 pm

England will probably get a battering in the U.A.E. no matter who is picked - the batting order is largely too inexperienced to deal with the demands of the subcontinent.

It was predominantly Swann and Panesar who engineered England into winning, or leading, positions during the five tests against Pakistan and Sri Lanka in 2012...and a bit of KP brilliance! All gone to the grayness of the past, now.

By the time England faced India away in that same year, the batting was largely competent, and India were pathetically weak and complacent for three tests. The bowlers, too, had found their feet. Captain Cook was a bloody hero, let's not forget!

Three years on, it is a bit of a mess. Bell will struggle out in the U.A.E. if he plays, and at number three that is a huge problem. A decent opener alongside Cook is also lacking, plus the middle-order is largely ill-equipped.

For England to get anything from the U.A.E., Cook and Root have to be in tremendous form. And the seamers will have to maximise any little advantage they find, because the spinners that England possess are not of the requisite quality to truly threaten Pakistan.

South Africa away is winnable, though, although a great deal depends on the overall fitness of the bowlers after such a gruelling schedule.

And the upcoming fourth test is damn winnable as well. The urn is practically back home, in England's rightful possession. Australia can't seem to play any ball that moves or deviates, and with Bell and Cook slowly returning to somewhere approaching the glory days, I fully expect England to nestle into a snug 3-1 lead.

But the away series to Pakistan will be horrific. Early morning horror. Never mind.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Jetty on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 1:46 am

We are hoping to get Jayawardene as a batting consultant with the UAE in mind.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 9:40 am

Olly wrote:As I mentioned earlier in the year - if we're not playing Moeen, Rashid and Ansari in the UAE we're doing cricket wrong

Others would argue that selecting entire teams of players who can neither bat nor bowl particulalry well is doing cricket wrong.

Ask Mitchell Marsh.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by liverbnz on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 9:51 am

Gooseberry wrote:
Olly wrote:As I mentioned earlier in the year - if we're not playing Moeen, Rashid and Ansari in the UAE we're doing cricket wrong

Others would argue that selecting entire teams of  players who can neither bat nor bowl particulalry well is doing cricket wrong.

Ask Mitchell Marsh.

Harsh. On the first 3, not the last Smile

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 10:28 am

Am not so sure England will get battered in the UAE - we had openings in all the 3 games last time, with the pacemen contributing, but were mainly undone by an illegal spinner. Facing legal bowling only I think we have a chance

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by KO-KING on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 5:01 pm

Duty281 wrote:England will probably get a battering in the U.A.E. no matter who is picked - the batting order is largely too inexperienced to deal with the demands of the subcontinent.

It was predominantly Swann and Panesar who engineered England into winning, or leading, positions during the five tests against Pakistan and Sri Lanka in 2012...and a bit of KP brilliance! All gone to the grayness of the past, now.

By the time England faced India away in that same year, the batting was largely competent, and India were pathetically weak and complacent for three tests. The bowlers, too, had found their feet. Captain Cook was a bloody hero, let's not forget!

Three years on, it is a bit of a mess. Bell will struggle out in the U.A.E. if he plays, and at number three that is a huge problem. A decent opener alongside Cook is also lacking, plus the middle-order is largely ill-equipped.

For England to get anything from the U.A.E., Cook and Root have to be in tremendous form. And the seamers will have to maximise any little advantage they find, because the spinners that England possess are not of the requisite quality to truly threaten Pakistan.

South Africa away is winnable, though, although a great deal depends on the overall fitness of the bowlers after such a gruelling schedule.

And the upcoming fourth test is damn winnable as well. The urn is practically back home, in England's rightful possession. Australia can't seem to play any ball that moves or deviates, and with Bell and Cook slowly returning to somewhere approaching the glory days, I fully expect England to nestle into a snug 3-1 lead.

But the away series to Pakistan will be horrific. Early morning horror. Never mind.

Pakistan are not that good, they're good, but if England play well and Anderson can find form along with couple of the batsmen, think they will make it a close match. Batting is a problem no doubt, Lyth doesn't look like he's ready for international cricket, I doubt lyth would get into any other international team - maybe Zim, he simply isn't ready, no opening batsmen at this level should be poking at balls, way outside off, over and over again.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Duty281 on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 7:15 pm

Well Pakistan did manage to defeat Sri Lanka 2-1, in Sri Lanka, recently - a series memorable for the extraordinary run chase of 382/3 that secured the series for the visitors.

They tied a series, 1-1, with the Kiwis in their most recent series in the U.A.E. - one win of 248 runs and a defeat of an innings and 80 runs. Before that, they obliterated Australia twice - 221 runs and 356 runs the respective margins.

I think Pakistan are a decent test side, not great, and they will have moments of extreme fallibility, particularly with regards to batting. It is just that I have grave doubts about the consistency of the English seamers and whether they can truly exploit the home side's weaknesses.

Right now, I would lean to a 2-0 Pakistan win, but there is of course a couple of months to go.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 7:37 pm

England are getting Whitewashed in Pakistan. Well Dubai. One sight of Yasir Shah, and a lifetime of memories of failures against chubby leg spinners will come back.

I actually think that Pakistan side is close to as good as Pakistan has ever had.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Duty281 on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 7:49 pm

The irritating thing is the generally idiotic English media will probably hype England up as favourites to beat both Pakistan and South Africa after the glorious Ashes triumph, and then lambast Cook as an utter failure when neither happens!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 8:25 pm

Was gonna say Yasir Shah is gonna cause us ridiculous problems.

I'm just hoping we can keep it respectable, the south Africa series should be closer
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 8:30 pm

It should be, Olly. And if you start well (the first test being at Kingsmead - we've lost four of the last five there, or something), an upset is well on the cards. We've got relatively new openers. I'm still not convinced by JP Duminy, who is rivalling Shane Watson in the "how many caps can you earn by looking pretty" stakes. We have a new Wicket Keeper. New spinner. Seriously bedding in as a team.

The counter point of course, is we have Steyn. Our greatest ever match winner.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 9:09 pm

kingraf wrote:
The counter point of course, is we have Steyn. Our greatest ever match winner not called Allan Donald.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 9:22 pm

Well, Donald Averages 16.79 in victories. Steyn averages 16.01. Donald has a Strike Rate of 35.5 in victories. Steyn's is 31.3. Donald Averages 5.67 wickets per win. Steyn averages 6.71. Donald won 45% of matches played. Steyn wins 52.5%.

Pretty clear in all relevant stats. Steyn FTW.

In Ashes related news, anyone know if Hazlewood's really being rested? There's a lot of money riding on that
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 9:31 pm

However having WATCHED Allan Donald bowl he was easily the better bowler, generally facing better teams and batsmen than Steyn has too, stats are so overused in Cricket.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 6:57 am

1 - No he wasn't. Great bowler, but Steyn is elite. There isn't a South African cricket expert who thinks otherwise. Including Donald.

2 - Being a match winner is a stat dependent matter. Dependent on Winning (Steyn trumps) and being crucial in said wins (again, Steyn FTW)
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 8:13 am

It's a replacement for those who are too young to have seen certain players in the flesh, you grossly overrate Steyn based solely on stats.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 8:36 am

Guess guys like Donald, Styris, Waqar and Mcgrath must have missed Donald as well then.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by seanmichaels on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 8:51 am

Is sA's reliance on a fit Steyn the reason they play so few test matches compared to the other top nations?

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 8:54 am

Apparently the Ashes are being played today.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by liverbnz on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 8:57 am

Gooseberry wrote:Apparently the Ashes are being played today.

Is Steyn playing?

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by kingraf on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 9:08 am

If he isn't... it's not worth watching.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 9:52 am

If he was Id switch over to watch Donald Duck

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Stella on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 9:56 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:However having WATCHED Allan Donald bowl he was easily the better bowler, generally facing better teams and batsmen than Steyn has too, stats are so overused in Cricket.

I'm not convinced Donald faced better batsmen? There are a fair few decent ones around today. Both were/are great quickies, the difference is, Steyn stands out today amongst some very good bowlers, whereas Donald played in a 'great' era of quicks.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 8:22 pm

Where is the next generation of Aussie batsmen? Do they have any up and comers? Barring Smith and maybe Warner this line up really doesn't have long left in terms of age and ability
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 07 Aug 2015, 9:00 am

Hows Kwdwjoifswidojsjm;lkmpokjsopjmdph\ getting on these days?

I nearly asked about the other chap then remembered Sad


Maxwell is a serious option as Captain, but theres still a massive question about his test batting. Hes certainly never going to add steel to the top 3 (although who wouldve expected a poor leg spinner to end up being topping the world batsmen list and "doing a job" from 3?)

Really not a lot has changed here from what we saw a few years back. Since them Warner and Smith have established themselves as genuinely good rather than genuinely questionable batsmen (Warner more for his personality than ability), and Rogers has come in and hit the form of his life. He looks like he might have a couple of years left in him still.

The chap Neville seems a good prospect and more than adequate replacement for Haddin, he may be able to push up to 6 at some point.

But yes it does seem the void that theyve tried to patch up with the Marshes and Voges and retaining Watson for too long is getting more and more obvious. Lehman did well to polish the turd of his batting resources over the last few years but theyve been badly exposed here, as they have on a few other occassions. The same turd that absolutely battered Englands bowlers a few weeks ago.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 08 Aug 2015, 11:46 am

Duty281 wrote:And Australia's batsmen will struggle in these conditions. And the Australian bowlers will find it a very great task to generate any of their notorious firepower on these pitches.

England should be triumphant in Cardiff, Birmingham and Nottingham.

Certainly Australia's greatest chance lies either first up - in Cardiff - or at Lord's - where they have a tremendous record.

But I think I'll be comfortable and remain with my 3-0-to-the-English prediction - one innings victory as part of the set.

Australia have their weaknesses, and the other batsmen just aren't very good in England. Or overall.

This won't be close - England will hammer Australia.

Well it's currently 3-1, with one to play, but I'm delighted to be right with my prediction that England should be triumphant in Cardiff/Birmingham/Nottingham, and that England will hammer Australia. They've even got the innings victory too, just to be extra nice!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 08 Aug 2015, 12:40 pm

Yeah good call Duty clap

I was quietly confident of an England win , but to be honest I didn't expect it to come quite as quickly . I had a prediction on somewhere of 3-2 ; but I fancy it just might become 4-1 after this...

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 08 Aug 2015, 7:27 pm

I predicted 3-1 England before the ashes started.

Well done to Cook et al..enjoy the moment.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Sat 08 Aug 2015, 11:24 pm

So Clarkes committed hari kari to save the selectors the trouble of sacking him

Aus have been over performing for the quality of player they have for a few years ow, with the former greats going and being replaced by non entities bangladesh must fancy their chances of a cheeky home pitch shock... and then new zealand come to visit.

You wouldt want to e the Aussie coach right now

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sun 09 Aug 2015, 2:28 pm

Anderson in the squad for the final test.

I was rather hoping he would be rested for the final test, given the taxing winter England have in front of them.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 09 Aug 2015, 2:52 pm

Duty281 wrote:Anderson in the squad for the final test.

I was rather hoping he would be rested for the final test, given the taxing winter England have in front of them.

Hoping they see sense and don't play him. Actually hope we give broad a rest too while we can.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sun 09 Aug 2015, 6:40 pm

alfie wrote:Yeah good call Duty  clap

I was quietly confident of an England win , but to be honest I didn't expect it to come quite as quickly .  I had a prediction on somewhere of 3-2 ; but I fancy it just might become 4-1 after this...

4-1 would be a beautiful return.

England have now won five of the last seven test series v Australia - great achievement - but have never mustered more than three victories in any of those five victorious series.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Stella on Sun 09 Aug 2015, 6:54 pm

Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Anderson in the squad for the final test.

I was rather hoping he would be rested for the final test, given the taxing winter England have in front of them.

Hoping they see sense and don't play him. Actually hope we give broad a rest too while we can.

If they're fit then they should play. Finn or Wood will I presume miss out.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 8:27 am

If Anderson plays the 5th Test it will be his last game for a while? So if fit I think he should play, 4-1 would look very nice.


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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by liverbnz on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 8:35 am

I think if he's in the squad he's gonna play? Might well be his last Ashes Test as well so he'll probably want to. Maybe rest Broad and try Plunkett? He was bowling some seriously quick stuff at Scarborough yesterday and the Oval will suit him. Cant's see it though.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by seanmichaels on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:25 am

Sidestrain / intercostal tears not to be messed with. I would go with Finn Broad and Footit. Rest Wood and Anderson.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:28 am

Seems to be some praise out there for Moores and Downton (cough ed Smith cough)

Sorry but do not get that at all - we've done well because we've changed our approach under farbrace then bayliss.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:31 am

seanmichaels wrote:Sidestrain / intercostal tears not to be messed with. I would go with Finn Broad and Footit. Rest Wood and Anderson.

Footitt isn't in the squad. You could have Plunkett in the team though. Also would Broad not need a rest more than Wood? He is the only quick who has played all Tests this summer so far

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Stella on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:35 am

If Anderson still has a niggle then why is he in the squad? If there's doubt then pick Plunkett, or Rashid. Broad doesn't and will not want a rest either.

Talk of Ali opening. This would create a space for Rashid, but Lyth should get one more test.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by VTR on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:41 am

I had heard that about Ali - if they do that then its obviously with one eye on the UAE tour, where its very likely that both will play. Rashid could be a decent number 8 or 9 as well!

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:45 am

Think Ali opening in UAE would be fine, because of the nature of the pitches. In south Africa would be a disaster
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Stella on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:45 am

Will we need 4 seamers in the UAE? If Lyth or a.nother does open, Rashid could repalce Wood or Finn for that tour, and still keep Ali in at 8.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by Azzy on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 11:18 am

If Ali doesn't open, drop him for Rashid anyway. I have never been convinced by Ali, and his bowling really isn't up to snuff. But in terms of the UAE, we could play McCague, Mullally, Malcolm and Small and still win. I'd rest Jimmy.

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Re: The Ashes Thread

Post by GSC on Mon 10 Aug 2015, 11:27 am

Not convinced Rashid is a better bowler or batsman than Ali, and Alis contributed well with the bat. Perhaps hasn't bowled particularly well but hasn't really been needed outside of Lords and conditions have rarely suited spin bowling in this series. Rashid is really the latest player to become overhyped as a result of not being in the team.
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Re: The Ashes Thread

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