England v New Zealand ODI Thread

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England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 10:35 am

Fixtures

Tuesday 9th June 2015
14:00 Edgbaston

Friday 12th June 2015
13:00 The Kia Oval

Sunday 14th June 2015
10:30 The Ageas Bowl

Wednesday 17th June 2015
14:00 Trent Bridge

Saturday 20th June 2015
10:30 Emirates Durham ICG


New Zealand Squad

Brendon McCullum (c)
Corey Anderson
Trent Boult
Grant Elliott
Martin Guptill
Matt Henry
Tom Latham (wk)
Mitchell McClenaghan
Nathan McCullum
Adam Milne±
Luke Ronchi (wk)
Mitchell Santner
Tim Southee
Ross Taylor
Ben Wheeler
Kane Williamson


England Squad

TBC


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Capitalising "England")

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 10:48 am

Interesting to see who will be in the England Squad.

WC Squad:
Moeen Ali, James Anderson, Gary Ballance, Ian Bell, Ravi Bopara, Stuart Broad, Jos Buttler (wk), Steven Finn, Alex Hales, Chris Jordan, Eoin Morgan (capt), Joe Root, James Taylor, James Tredwell, Chris Woakes.

Team that played Ireland:
Alex Hales, Jason Roy, James Taylor (C), James Vince, Zafar Ansari, Jonathan Bairstow (W), Adil Rashid, Timothy Bresnan, David Willey, Mark Wood, Steven Finn

Also in consideration:
Stokes, Gurney


Anderson should no longer be included in ODIs and be saved purely for tests. Broad too could do with a rest. We also need to be looking for aggressive batsmen and bowlers. Grinding out runs is not the way and nor is trying to contain in the field. So batsmen should be able to hit boundaries, bowlers looking to take wickets.

If we selected a 14 man squad I would expect it to look something like:

Ali, Hales, Roy, Taylor, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Rashid, Treadwell, Jordan, Wood, Finn + One more quick bowler.

Three spinners may be too many in a small squad, and at times Rashid can be expensive but he does take wickets.


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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 12:33 pm

When I was at the Oval yesterday I had a look at the wicket for the second ODI or rather where it will be. It had some type of green covering over it. What did surprise me was that the wicket wasn't as central as I expected. For those who know the ground, it's over towards the Archbishop Tenison School side. I don't think McCullum and his fellow six hitters will mind too much!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 1:28 pm

Why does Broad need to have a rest ???

He only has to bowl 10 overs in a day.........Probably in three different spells.....

Hardly work is it ??...........Considering he'll get a four week rest till the Ashes start after the ODI series...and he probably goes out ruunning or to the gym everyday anyway...

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by wisden on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 1:48 pm

Broad should be left out of the odi side full stop.... leave him for test match cricket, along with Jimmy

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by VTR on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 1:55 pm

14 runs off an over there. Not toying with NZ now, the charge to victory has begun!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Stella on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 2:05 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why does Broad need to have a rest ???

He only has to bowl 10 overs in a day.........Probably in three different spells.....

Hardly work is it ??...........Considering he'll get a four week rest till the Ashes start after the ODI series...and he probably goes out ruunning or to the gym everyday anyway...

He's injury prone, so common sense tells me, he could do with a rest before the main course comes.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 2:08 pm

He can have a rest in the four weeks post ODI till the Ashes start............

He's going to be practicing bowling in the nets anyway.......

Might as well have your best bowler trying to win a one day game for you..

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Stella on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 2:13 pm

Net bowling is hardly the same. I also think England need to start looking at new players. The current lot were woeful in Aus, so why not have a look.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 3:12 pm

Yeah I'd be looking at some young ones in these. Broad and Anderson are crucial to the Ashes Tests , so I don't think sending them off to play white ball cricket now is a great idea.
Not saying I'd never play Broad in an ODI again. But right now I'd be saving him for the main game.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 5:22 pm

Broad and Anderson aren't even that good in ODI's anyways - with the gruelling summer and winter of tests upcoming they should be rested.

I'd like to see David Willey given a go personally
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by king_carlos on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 5:28 pm

1.Hales
2.Vince
3.Taylor
4.Root
5.Morgan
6.Stokes
7.Buttler (wk)
8.Jordan
9.Tredwell
10.Wood
11.Finn

Plus:

Roy
Bairstow or Billings as second wicket keeper
Ali or Rashid as second spinner
David Willey as final seamer

By no means perfect but with it being time for Bell and Anderson to step aside plus Broad struggling to really perform in ODIs for a while it's going to be a new look side.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by jimbohammers on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 5:53 pm

No James Vince, wow. Gutted for him

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by king_carlos on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 6:15 pm

England ODI squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex, capt), Sam Billings (Kent), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Chris Jordan (Sussex), Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), James Taylor (Nottinghamshire), David Willey (Northamptonshire), Mark Wood (Durham)

As jimbo says it's disappointing not to see Vince in there.

Also a big call to have Rashid as the only spinner. A real opportunity for him to prove a point.

I must admit that when making my squad in the post above I hadn't thought of Plunkett for the ODI squad but am pleased to see him back involved.

Looks like we will see:

1.Hales
2.Roy
3.Taylor
4.Root
5.Morgan (c)
6.Stokes
7.Buttler (wk)
8.Rashid

With 9, 10, 11 taken up by 3 of Finn, Wood, Jordan, Plunkett and Willey.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 6:48 pm

Very happy with that squad - full of exciting young cricketers who will be hoping to prove they can make the step up to international level.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 6:52 pm

Olly wrote:Very happy with that squad - full of exciting young cricketers who will be hoping to prove they can make the step up to international level.


Olly - what about yer man?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 6:58 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Olly wrote:Very happy with that squad - full of exciting young cricketers who will be hoping to prove they can make the step up to international level.


Olly - what about yer man?

Can't have all the Surrey boys taken away now can we Guildford - we have an unbeaten championship season to be looked after Wink
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 7:32 pm

Bell, Anderson and Broad dropped. Moeen Ali sent to play red ball cricket before the Ashes.
The first 3, particularly Anderson and Bell might be done in the ODI format. The most interesting call is regarding Ali. This is the opportunity for Adil Rashid to prove a point. It will be difficult, Its ODIs, a format pretty much designed for batsman, New Zealand have a number of massive hitters, he wouldn't have attacking fields to work with, he gets to bowl only 10 overs and he won't even be playing with the red ball. But before the Ashes, this would be the only opportunity he's going to get to make a case for himself. He can take all the wickets in county cricket, Ali can be toyed with effortlessly by opposing test batsmen but people would still be talking about how Rashid bowls far too slowly for international cricket and how ones upon a time Ali ran through the Indian batting lineup........ So This is Adil Rashid's chance. If he can deliver when the odds are stacked against him, perhaps there could be a change of heart.......
Eoin Morgan is extremely fortunate to be even considered for the squad, but If he can't turn things around in this series, think Joe Root will be leading England in the next ODI series they play. Morgan used to be a fine ODI player, but the way thengs went for him with the bat in the last year and a bit, he now has to prove he still has got it.......

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 7:55 pm

king_carlos wrote:...

Also a big call to have Rashid as the only spinner. A real opportunity for him to prove a point ....


Feel there should have been another frontline slow bowler in the squad. That would cater for Rashid not cutting it or conditions favouring another slowie alongside him. Suspect we'll see Root turning his arm quite a bit. Root's bowling has improved but I'm not convinced he's the answer.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 8:10 pm

The only other realistic option is Tredwell. I would have had him in the squad, but think they've decided his time has come and gone!
Would really like to see what Rashid can bring to the table........

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by NickisBHAFC on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 8:54 pm

Who the fu*k is David Wiley?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by JDizzle on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 9:02 pm

Shocked they've left out Tredwell. I don't really rate Rashid, and Tredwell is a proven, solid commodity in the ODI format.

Bit surprised Vince has been left out, he does always look a class act, but I'd happily see a top 5 of Hales, Roy, Taylor, Root, Morgan. Plenty of talent and potential in there.

I don't think Willey is anything special outside of being a left armer, think both his batting and bowling are below the required level for international standard but he's worth a punt, seeing as he does offer somehting different.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 9:31 pm

I'd liken him to Corey Anderson - and I think he could be just as destructive
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 10:23 pm

JDizzle wrote:Shocked they've left out Tredwell. I don't really rate Rashid, and Tredwell is a proven, solid commodity in the ODI format.

Bit surprised Vince has been left out, he does always look a class act, but I'd happily see a top 5 of Hales, Roy, Taylor, Root, Morgan. Plenty of talent and potential in there.

I don't think Willey is anything special outside of being a left armer, think both his batting and bowling are below the required level for international standard but he's worth a punt, seeing as he does offer somehting different.

JD - I share some of your concerns there. Going further, I'm unsure how much the group named today is meant to be an ODI squad for now and going forward and/or a Test audition for the Ashes. When Strauss was first appointed to his current role, one of his opening comments was that he wanted greater clarity and distinction between the Test and ODI sides. Perhaps this will become clearer as the summer goes on but just now the waters look murky to me.


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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 11:30 pm

Have to say I was surprised that Ali was not included. Does look like it means he is nailed on for the Ashes as first choice spinner. He will need to bowl a lot of overs through June as he has been shocking.

James Vince is unlucky. First because appointing Morgan as captain early reduced batting positions, secondly his form this season is not good. Just 161 runs averaging 16 in CC, but an improved 102 at 34 in T20.

Willey an interesting choice, Missed most of last season with injury but he could be our equivalent to Corey Anderson and James Faulkner. I am glad he did not have to take the big money offer from a test ground county to get this recognition. Far too many players have moved from less fashionable counties because the feel they stand a better chance of international call-ups if they do so.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 11:33 pm

PS hate the Plunkett selection. I very much doubt he would make our first choice line up for the One day cup, so how the hell can he make the international squad?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 11:38 pm

LondonTiger wrote:PS hate the Plunkett selection. I very much doubt he would make our first choice line up for the One day cup, so how the hell can he make the international squad?

Tiger - that strengthens my uncertainty as to whether this is a genuine ODI squad or a Test audition.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Jun 2015, 6:37 am


guildfordbat wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:PS hate the Plunkett selection. I very much doubt he would make our first choice line up for the One day cup, so how the hell can he make the international squad?

Tiger - that strengthens my uncertainty as to whether this is a genuine ODI squad or a Test audition.

Bit of both , isn't it ? Not ideal , perhaps - but the timing of these tours dictates some compromise.

Glad they left Moeen out to play some four day cricket. Still think he is probably the best immediate prospect for the spin spot for the Ashes and he needs to get some overs in...

For the rest : mostly new young bats , and they've rested the senior quicks. Roy gets a chance along with Hales ; and another opportunity for Finn to re-establish himself. Pity about Vince I suppose but you can't fit them all in. There will be more ODIs coming soon enough...

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Jetty on Thu 04 Jun 2015, 3:18 am

Olly wrote:Broad and Anderson aren't even that good in ODI's anyways - with the gruelling summer and winter of tests upcoming they should be rested.

I'd like to see David Willey given a go personally

Anderson is in the ICC top 10. Was at number 3 a year ago. He goes under under 5 an over.
Broad is at number 53.

Willey is a definite starter in this new look team.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 04 Jun 2015, 9:30 am

Tredwell currently injured according to CricInfo

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 04 Jun 2015, 6:55 pm

Looking at that Vince innings in the T20 he looks horrifically out of nick
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 9:45 pm

My team for tomorrow:

Alex Hales
Jason Roy
James Taylor
Joe Root
Jos Buttler
Ben Stokes
Sam Billings
Adil Rashid
David Willey
Mark Wood
Steven Finn


Obviously that won't be the team, but it's what I'd go with....I'd expect to see Morgan instead of Billings and Jordan instead of Willey tomorrow.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by JDizzle on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 9:51 pm

Allegedly Taylor is going to be dropped. That would be a heinous decision.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 9:58 pm

JDizzle wrote:Allegedly Taylor is going to be dropped. That would be a heinous decision.

Surely not....where did you hear/read that???
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 10:14 pm

Olly wrote:
JDizzle wrote:Allegedly Taylor is going to be dropped. That would be a heinous decision.

Surely not....where did you hear/read that???

Here perhaps: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11660334/England-vs-New-Zealand-ODI-preview-Hosts-hoping-for-start-of-a-new-era.html

Where they seem to be suggesting a top 4 of Hales, Roy, Root, Stokes, with Morgan and Buttler at 5/6 swapping depending on situation.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 10:16 pm

It's doing the rounds on twitter. I agree that it would be somewhat strange (by which I mean I simply couldn't fathom the reasoning - who would be batting in the top 3?) but maybe we should wait until it actually happens (if it does) before launching tirades against all and sundry. Rumours are sometimes true and sometimes just that - in today's world it is not unusual for someone to misinterpret what they've been told, claim it as some "source" and everyone else to pick up on it and spread it as if it was gospel. The self-perpetuating myth if you like.

I quite like the squad, although I agree with guildford and JD on concerns over Tredwell being left out. Having said that a chance for Rashid to prove his doubters (myself included) wrong - I will be interested to see how he bowls, regardless of what his returns are. I would stress that we should see how he goes over the whole series, and not condemn him on going for a few in the first outing, or suddenly claim him as the saviour to all things (only to no doubt bash him later) if he gets some early success.

I am however excited to see Roy and Billings in there, and hopefully Stokes can also get a bit of a run higher up the order.

I do think the general attitude to Broad and Anderson ("save them for 'real' cricket") goes a long way to explaining why England are a bit pants at ODIs...

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 10:27 pm

I hate to repeat myself, but Tredwell is currently injured.

CricInfo predicts the same team as the Telegraph

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-new-zealand-2015/content/story/885205.html wrote:England (possible): 1 Alex Hales, 2 Jason Roy, 3 Joe Root, 4 Ben Stokes, 5 Eoin Morgan (capt), 6 Jos Buttler (wk), 7 David Willey 8 Adil Rashid, 9 Chris Jordan, 10 Liam Plunkett, 11 Steven Finn

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 10:46 pm

Tiger - can you give any details or link as to Tredwell's injury. I couldn't find anything when you mentioned it before. I'm not doubting you, just interested. Thanks.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by JDizzle on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 10:55 pm

Yeah, I just very much saw the Taylor had be dropped rumour doing the rounds on Twitter. No inside information here! And as Mike says, whilst we should be cautious about believing every thing you read, I will be very angry if Taylor doesn't get a proper chance to stake his claim for the three spot this summer. Think his performances in an England Jersey have earned him a little time to have a go.

Although my anger is tempered if they pick a top 6 of Hales, Roy, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Morgan. Whilst being unconvinced by Stokes at 4, think he's too hit and miss for that slot, and obviously Root is new to three, it is (cliche) an exciting batting line up. Better than same old same old.

The bowling is the real concern. I didn't know Tredders was injured. Is it still the same one from the Caribbean? But there is nobody in that side who you can rely on... Not even 50% of the time. If someone gets going for NZ, watch out.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 11:08 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Tiger - can you give any details or link as to Tredwell's injury. I couldn't find anything when you mentioned it before. I'm not doubting you, just interested. Thanks.

GB read it in a Cricinfo article. He has not played since 15th May, while the news article onKent website before T20 fixture v your boys dated 28th May mentions a side strain

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:35 am

That does give England a heckins of a lot of bowling options. Its certainly an agressive selection to go with Hales and Roy opening, really that looks more like a T20 side than a traditional English ODI one.

Morgan and Finn both have a lot to prove. Willey has been picked purely because hes a left arm bowler. His returns this season have been nothing special, again I guess this shows how little county form really matters in the selections. Morgans domestic and IPL returns hardly suggest hes back on his game.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 1:39 pm

Taylor dropped

Idiots
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 1:39 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Tiger - can you give any details or link as to Tredwell's injury. I couldn't find anything when you mentioned it before. I'm not doubting you, just interested. Thanks.

GB read it in a Cricinfo article. He has not played since 15th May, while the news article onKent website before T20 fixture v your boys dated 28th May mentions a side strain

Tiger - thanks for the reply. While there isn't an overwhelming call here for Tredwell to be recalled by England, I suspect a fit Tredders will be welcomed back at his county with open arms by Kent supporters. His young replacement Riley is finding it hard going so far this season - my post on the ''England Spinner'' thread refers.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 1:57 pm

Bit surprised at Taylor's omission. But some new blood will be...interesting , at least.

Better watch this for a while I suppose : would love to see Hales bring his t20 form into this game...

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 2:07 pm

Well the 606 selection machine (aka surrey supportrers club) got its way with Roy, how did that work out guys?

As for Taylor hes too short for international cricket, we already know that.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by VTR on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 2:11 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Well the 606 selection machine (aka surrey supportrers club) got its way with Roy, how did that work out guys?


A bit harsh there! Let's see how he does after the end of the series. Or even 10 or so ODIs assuming he is given in a run in the side

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 2:12 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Well the 606 selection machine (aka surrey supportrers club) got its way with Roy, how did that work out guys?

As for Taylor hes too short for international cricket, we already know that.

Hopefully you're doing a KP_fan impression here....
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by jimbohammers on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 2:13 pm

Roy deserves his chance but would have preferred him coming in lower down the order

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 2:24 pm

Joking aside it does show how much they are dertemnied to pick an experimental youthfull attacking side in leaving out Taylor for both Roy and Billings (Morgans inclussion another discussion altogether).

Looks like Hales and Root are decent players mind, who knew!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 2:27 pm

Olly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Well the 606 selection machine (aka surrey supportrers club) got its way with Roy, how did that work out guys?

As for Taylor hes too short for international cricket, we already know that.

Hopefully you're doing a KP_fan impression here....

Goose has a lot of knowledge. It's just wisdom he lacks. Probably has tomato in his fruit salad.

guildfordbat

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

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