England v New Zealand ODI Thread

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England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 10:35 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures

Tuesday 9th June 2015
14:00 Edgbaston

Friday 12th June 2015
13:00 The Kia Oval

Sunday 14th June 2015
10:30 The Ageas Bowl

Wednesday 17th June 2015
14:00 Trent Bridge

Saturday 20th June 2015
10:30 Emirates Durham ICG


New Zealand Squad

Brendon McCullum (c)
Corey Anderson
Trent Boult
Grant Elliott
Martin Guptill
Matt Henry
Tom Latham (wk)
Mitchell McClenaghan
Nathan McCullum
Adam Milne±
Luke Ronchi (wk)
Mitchell Santner
Tim Southee
Ross Taylor
Ben Wheeler
Kane Williamson


England Squad

TBC


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Capitalising "England")

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 5:44 pm

Plunkett Bubbly

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 5:45 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:England throwing it away as usual. Rolling Eyes


Cant believe they blew the chance to get 409, so typical of England

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 5:45 pm

And how very satisfying to see Plunkett finish things in style ! 408...

And well played Rashid. clap

Enjoyed that...have to sleep though so you chaps make sure the bowling backs it up , OK ?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 5:45 pm

Rashid nudging test selectors with that knock. What an innings from England 408 for 9. Great knock from Root but the star of the show was Jos Buttler.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by kingraf on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 5:46 pm

Games like this... glorified home run derbies, are the bane of my existence. Nice to England can know play the game though. The fact that England seem to have caught up, of course, doubtless means that the next ICC ODI rule variations will make such cricket outdated
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 5:46 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:England throwing it away as usual. Rolling Eyes


Cant believe they blew the chance to get 409, so typical of England

OK OK I may have been a bit premature there.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Duty281 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 5:47 pm

Tremendous effort from England; Buttler and Root in particular (duh!).

I make the Kiwis marginal favourites. Such a view will be enhanced if England fail to take early wickets. Such a good wicket for batting.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by banyun on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 5:51 pm

I never thought I'd see England get 400. Against the WC finalists at that!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 5:56 pm

Excellent supporting innings from Rashid. Now can he take 2/50 off 10?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 6:04 pm

Well that was fun.

Kudos to Rashid for that knock, that should give him plenty of confidence for bowling.

It is of course just one innings, but it was good to see England play ODIs the "modern" way, in that they sacrificed maybe being a couple wickets too many down at times to keep their scoring rate up. Aus, NZ, SA et al have shown that currently that is the way to go - it is preferable nowadays to be say 180-4 off 30 than 150-2. Generally. It means that when you decide to accelerate you do so on your terms, rather than because you have to having run out of overs.

I hope they stick to this approach, and I hope fans show enough patience when it invariably goes wrong a couple of times and they get rolled over for 150 or so.

An encouraging start.

Also, James Taylor can feel very hard done by.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 6:08 pm

We need the bowlers and skipper to keep their cool. NZ will come out hard, but we have to stick to the plans (hope we have some) rather than panic as we did in T2.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 6:10 pm

I instantly remembered why I don't watch one day cricket, horrible horrible game.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 6:25 pm

So Rashid proved that he can hold a bat in international cricket, and that he didn't score all the runs that he scored in recent times because he's been playing against substandard opposition.
Guildford, 2-50 in 10 overs on this absolutely dreadful track? That should get him 3 years of test cricket!!!.
Buttler was absolutely brilliant, Root was splendid, Rashid's performance was heartening, but the performer of that England innings was Trent Boult. In a game where he was supposed to have only turned up, the guy took 4 wickets.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 6:28 pm

Glad to see Rashid perform with the bat, even happier to see one of my real favorits, Steven Finn knocking over McCullum in the first over itself to give England a massive, massive lift, an absolutely terrific start with the ball after that stroke-filled finish with the bat.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 6:29 pm

Finn with a maiden now!!!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 6:31 pm

Williamson batting like a conventional England top order batsman!!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 6:44 pm

Missed the start of the innings, just switched on to watch Guptil nick one through off Finn.

Bit of a swipe but I guess understandable when facing 400.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 6:58 pm

NZ would need Ross Taylor in his older version wherein he was a bit of a smasher.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:14 pm

Early wicket for Rashid as Williamson skies one. I can hear the twitterverse explode from here...

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:15 pm

Rashid gets Williamson!!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Duty281 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:17 pm

That's the wicket that swings the game decisively in England's favour.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:19 pm

Yes it was a wicket of an attempted big hit, but Rashid deserves credit for keeping it quiet for 4 balls of the over. Had it been Ali, people would be singing about how he creates chances in between the flow of rubbish!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:32 pm

Msp - let's judge Rashid on what he does (and what he's doing very well today) in this series and not on how others might or might not have judged Ali if he had been playing in it.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:34 pm

Oh come on msp do you have to resort to that kind of pettiness?

I'm a bit fed up frankly with how some people who really ought to know better will keep insisting that the world has to be black or white, and the not so sly and subtle digs which seem to be becoming the norm. Nobody has been singing about Ali being the best bowler of all time.

Having said that Rashid has bowled nicely so far. Seems to be getting more action on the ball than I've seen him do previously, good amount of side-spin, and googly going well. That doesn't in itself mean he should automatically be picked for the first ashes test, but it's been an encouraging start.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:40 pm

He really gets a lot of drift on the ball doesn't he
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:40 pm

Very good over that one from Rashid to be fair. Really getting his fingers around the ball and getting through his action nicely.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:42 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Very good over that one from Rashid to be fair. Really getting his fingers around the ball and getting through his action nicely.

100% agree he's the next Warne Mike Whistle Whistle Whistle
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:50 pm

Not quite sure what that's supposed to mean?


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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:51 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Not quite sure what that's supposed to mean?


Was in jest to your overreaction comment above Wink

Anyways he's keeping it tidy and I like that Morgan is keeping the field up when bowling him.

Worried that Stokes may go for a few here tho....
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:55 pm

Oh OK. Sorry, bit touchy at the moment, not sure why.

A run-out. One for taking the ball in front of the stumps guildford? ;-) Honestly though, I think the batsman is home if Buttler goes the orthodox way.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:56 pm

Just when a partnership was developing, a run-out rocks NZ.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:05 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Oh come on msp do you have to resort to that kind of pettiness?

I'm a bit fed up frankly with how some people who really ought to know better will keep insisting that the world has to be black or white, and the not so sly and subtle digs which seem to be becoming the norm. Nobody has been singing about Ali being the best bowler of all time.

Having said that Rashid has bowled nicely so far. Seems to be getting more action on the ball than I've seen him do previously, good amount of side-spin, and googly going well. That doesn't in itself mean he should automatically be picked for the first ashes test, but it's been an encouraging start.
Mike, just take it easy!, and have a relook at your comment above the quoted one.......
A lot of people have generally been all too ready to write off everything Rashid achieved in domestic cricket over the last couple of years, never even thinking that lad perhaps have made a bit of improvement over the first version presented to international cricket....... So perhaps give him a bit of credit when it is due, when he earns it at the top level.
Doesn't mean he has to be the next Warne or the next generation Swann or anything, just be in the moment and acknowledge what he has done.......

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:06 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Oh OK. Sorry, bit touchy at the moment, not sure why.

A run-out. One for taking the ball in front of the stumps guildford? ;-) Honestly though, I think the batsman is home if Buttler goes the orthodox way.

Mrs Bat has the remote control and I only have cricinfo. Rolling Eyes I'll let you know if I see the highlights but guess you're confident about the answer! Wink

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:08 pm

msp83 wrote:
Mike Selig wrote:Oh come on msp do you have to resort to that kind of pettiness?

I'm a bit fed up frankly with how some people who really ought to know better will keep insisting that the world has to be black or white, and the not so sly and subtle digs which seem to be becoming the norm. Nobody has been singing about Ali being the best bowler of all time.

Having said that Rashid has bowled nicely so far. Seems to be getting more action on the ball than I've seen him do previously, good amount of side-spin, and googly going well. That doesn't in itself mean he should automatically be picked for the first ashes test, but it's been an encouraging start.
Mike, just take it easy!, and have a relook at your comment above the quoted one.......
A lot of people have generally been all too ready to write off everything Rashid achieved in domestic cricket over the last couple of years, never even thinking that lad perhaps have made a bit of improvement over the first version presented to international cricket....... So perhaps give him a bit of credit when it is due, when he earns it at the top level.
Doesn't mean he has to be the next Warne or the next generation Swann or anything, just be in the moment and acknowledge what he has done.......

Msp - perhaps have a look at my post too.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:10 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Msp - let's judge Rashid on what he does (and what he's doing very well today) in this series and not on how others might or might not have judged Ali if he had been playing in it.
Fair enough, Guildford.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:12 pm

Not really sure why new Zealand have sent in Santner ahead of Ronchi
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:15 pm

msp you're right, I was a bit grumpy and my post and certainly its tone was OTT

Having said that my point partly stands, and I think your comment was unwarranted, and solely aimed at getting a bite. I don't really see the point of it TBH, and it seems to me that there has been a lot of it recently and it is coming IMO from a mindset that only one position is "right" and everybody else is "wrong". Likewise it would be nice if you acknowledged when you are shown to be wrong rather than try and weasel things (e.g. the stuff over Stokes and Ali's respective batting averages on the England spinner thread). A simple "you're right, I was mistaken, but..." does no harm from time to time. There is IMO not enough of it.

So as for Rashid. So far he has bowled nicely, and exceeded my expectations. But let's not over-egg things yet (if only because it will invariably lead to people knee-jerking the other way the first poor innings he had; only last summer nobody could get enough of Ali...). It is one wicket (so far) in one innings, coming after he has scored runs and with loads and loads of runs to play with.

It has been encouraging.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:15 pm

Required run rate up to 10: 230 of 23 overs.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:18 pm

Rashid gets his 2nd!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Liam on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:19 pm

That's a beauty from rashid!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:20 pm

Rashid pencilled in for the first Ashes test? Smile

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:22 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Rashid pencilled in for the first Ashes test? Smile

ADIL'S ASHES 2015 Wink
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:24 pm

OK now 3 wickets in one innings Wink

Ronchi gone first ball bowled by the wrong'un.

Rashid's debut has been upgraded from encouraging to very promising.

I've quite liked Morgan's captaincy as well. I like this move to bring Finn back. And I promise I typed that before he took that wicket. Assuming it's clipping leg.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Duty281 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:24 pm

Fingers tightly crossed that Rashid does not get into the Test team on the back of this.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:27 pm

Fingers tightly crossed that Rashid does get into the Test team on the back of this.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:28 pm

Mike Selig wrote:msp you're right, I was a bit grumpy and my post and certainly its tone was OTT

Having said that my point partly stands, and I think your comment was unwarranted, and solely aimed at getting a bite. I don't really see the point of it TBH, and it seems to me that there has been a lot of it recently and it is coming IMO from a mindset that only one position is "right" and everybody else is "wrong". Likewise it would be nice if you acknowledged when you are shown to be wrong rather than try and weasel things (e.g. the stuff over Stokes and Ali's respective batting averages on the England spinner thread). A simple "you're right, I was mistaken, but..." does no harm from time to time. There is IMO not enough of it.

So as for Rashid. So far he has bowled nicely, and exceeded my expectations. But let's not over-egg things yet (if only because it will invariably lead to people knee-jerking the other way the first poor innings he had; only last summer nobody could get enough of Ali...). It is one wicket (so far) in one innings, coming after he has scored runs and with loads and loads of runs to play with.

It has been encouraging.
Mike, I do have my strong views and I don't often hold back on it....... But I certainly don't assume that it has to be always the right position. On the Stokes v Ali, the post I was responding was not from you, and the original post didn't wasn't clear about what it was trying to suggest, that Stokes was averaging less than Ali at a particular point. Stokes was of course averaging less than Ali at the start of the NZ series, but then he was batting 8 rather than 6 for most of that time, and his average at 6 is pretty OK. So unless a clear reference point was made, how could I say I was wrong?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:31 pm

Rashid gets his 4th!.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:32 pm

Rashid determined to get Mike to post frequently at the moment. Wink

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:36 pm

So that's Rashid's work for the day, 69 with the bat, and 4-55 of his 10 overs. That's a very encouraging comeback to proper international cricket. The runs would have helped his confidence, and Morgan's captaincy surely did.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Duty281 on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:36 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Fingers tightly crossed that Rashid does get into the Test team on the back of this.

I thought you didn't watch one-day stuff. Wink

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