England v New Zealand ODI Thread

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England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 10:35 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures

Tuesday 9th June 2015
14:00 Edgbaston

Friday 12th June 2015
13:00 The Kia Oval

Sunday 14th June 2015
10:30 The Ageas Bowl

Wednesday 17th June 2015
14:00 Trent Bridge

Saturday 20th June 2015
10:30 Emirates Durham ICG


New Zealand Squad

Brendon McCullum (c)
Corey Anderson
Trent Boult
Grant Elliott
Martin Guptill
Matt Henry
Tom Latham (wk)
Mitchell McClenaghan
Nathan McCullum
Adam Milne±
Luke Ronchi (wk)
Mitchell Santner
Tim Southee
Ross Taylor
Ben Wheeler
Kane Williamson


England Squad

TBC


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Capitalising "England")

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Thu 11 Jun 2015, 9:22 pm

Olly wrote:Excellent 21 ball 50 from David Willey. Like hibbz says he gives it a right old wallop

Willey for Billings would be a good shout for me. But will the selectors be loathe to drop Billings so quickly?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 8:09 am

Having selected Billings for one match, I am sure they will be worried about dropping him immediately.

Of course this is not the first time willey has shone in televised T20 matches. Reckon Surrey fans still have nightmares about the 2013 final.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 8:26 am

Billings should be given a couple more games for sure, but I'd like to see willey given a go at some point
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 9:13 am

LondonTiger wrote:Having selected Billings for one match, I am sure they will be worried about dropping him immediately.

Of course this is not the first time willey has shone in televised T20 matches. Reckon Surrey fans still have nightmares about the 2013 final.

Yeah, thanks a lot, Tiger. I'm not exactly mega chuffed this morning anyway as I prepare to set off for the Oval with a 90 notes ticket in my pocket whilst watching the rain come down!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by dummy_half on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 9:21 am

Just back-tracking to Tuesday for a moment, one thing I thought was interesting was how well England kept pushing the run-rate through the whole innings.

To illustrate, I've looked at the scores after every 5 over block:

5 Overs: 35-1 (7.0 RPO)
10 Overs: 68-2 = 33 runs / 6.6 RPO
15 Overs: 102-2 = 34 runs / 6.7 RPO
20 Overs: 144-2 = 42 runs / 8.4 RPO
25 Overs: 181-4 = 37 runs / 7.4 RPO
30 Overs: 202-6 = 21 runs / 4.2 RPO (loss of wickets just before and during this block)
35 Overs: 231-6 = 29 runs / 5.8 RPO (overall run rate to this point = 6.6)
40 overs: 288-6 = 57 runs / 11.4 RPO
45 Overs: 345-6 = 57 runs / 11.4 RPO
50 Overs: 408-9 = 63 runs / 12.6 RPO

Only one block of 5 overs were we much poorer than a run a ball, and that came after Root's wicket until Billings wicket.

Interestingly, given how things finished, our slowest scoring 10 overs came in the first 10 overs of Buttler's innings (came in half way through the 25th over). Shows that if there is time and if you have the batting power, a little time to play yourself in and to consolidate the innings doesn't do too much harm in the end.

Wonder where we'd have finished had we lost a couple fewer wickets at 25 and 30 overs - something around 425 - 430 could have been on the cards.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 10:03 am

Much better weather now although heavy rain forecast for around 6 o'clock. Arr well, will certainly see some play and avoid travelling there with it tipping down - nothing much makes the heart sink heavier than going to watch a cricket match when it's already raining!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 12:31 pm

Really looking forward to this, however I have a feeling England will flop and flop badly today.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 12:47 pm

Even if they do it's not the end of the world - shame they couldn't bat first again, hopefully keep new Zealand to 300-320 on what's bound to be a tremendous oval wicket
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:08 pm

This started an hour earlier than I was expecting...glad I came on here and noticed...

And pleased that the rain has gone away to let guildford take his seat and watch some cricket...at 90 quid you don't want to be watching the rain come down ! Any chance it will stay dry ?

Bouncy first couple of overs. Same team , as I think was to be expected.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:10 pm

PaulHv2 wrote:Really looking forward to this, however I have a feeling England will flop and flop badly today.

Takes a lot to shake the natural pessimism of the England cricket fan Smile


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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:12 pm

alfie wrote:
PaulHv2 wrote:Really looking forward to this, however I have a feeling England will flop and flop badly today.

Takes a lot to shake the natural pessimism of the England cricket fan  Smile


Seen it so many times over the years, one good performance and everyone thinks they've turned the corner, and then it's followed by months of rubbish Doh
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Stella on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:14 pm

It happened in the tests. Good win, then easily beat. That's sport!
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:19 pm

You'd also expect the new Zealanders to play better today as well (and in the 2nd test against them we lost because they just played better it happens)

Whether the rain arrives is 50/50 alfie according to the weather man on tms who was firmly on the fence!
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:21 pm

I never said they didn't play better Olly, what annoys me as a follower of England for twenty plus years is that when they lose they change their attitude in following games. So instead of continuing to play an attacking brand of cricket, they go to a defensive style which allows other teams to bully them. 

Hopefully I'm wrong, can't see it though personally. Chris Jordan opening the bowling is a stupid decision also.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:25 pm

Oh I agree no matter what they need to continue with this brand and intent of cricket
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Stella on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:27 pm

PaulHv2 wrote:I never said they didn't play better Olly, what annoys me as a follower of England for twenty plus years is that when they lose they change their attitude in following games. So instead of continuing to play an attacking brand of cricket, they go to a defensive style which allows other teams to bully them. 

Hopefully I'm wrong, can't see it though personally. Chris Jordan opening the bowling is a stupid decision also.

He is athletic, if nothing else.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:28 pm

Stella wrote:
PaulHv2 wrote:I never said they didn't play better Olly, what annoys me as a follower of England for twenty plus years is that when they lose they change their attitude in following games. So instead of continuing to play an attacking brand of cricket, they go to a defensive style which allows other teams to bully them. 

Hopefully I'm wrong, can't see it though personally. Chris Jordan opening the bowling is a stupid decision also.

He is athletic, nothing else.
 
Fixed that for you Stella.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Stella on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:29 pm

PaulHv2 wrote:
Stella wrote:
PaulHv2 wrote:I never said they didn't play better Olly, what annoys me as a follower of England for twenty plus years is that when they lose they change their attitude in following games. So instead of continuing to play an attacking brand of cricket, they go to a defensive style which allows other teams to bully them. 

Hopefully I'm wrong, can't see it though personally. Chris Jordan opening the bowling is a stupid decision also.

He is athletic, nothing else.
 
Fixed that for you Stella.

Much better.

No, he's obviously not as bad as I and others make out. needs to keep it up though.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:30 pm

He's a good cricketer but I think he needs more time to develop his bowling in the county game
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:37 pm

Plunkett has looked more dangerous in 4 balls than Jordan did in his 3 overs. I'd be opening the bowling with him and Finn personally.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:47 pm

Olly wrote:Oh I agree no matter what they need to continue with this brand and intent of cricket

I think they will ,Olly.

Of course , it won't always work. And I hope we as supporters are ready to cut them a little slack when it does go wrong.

Tests are a little different . Conditions vary more ; and full speed ahead isn't always sensible. Even so , they played with purpose at Headingley I believe , so although they lost the match I don't see it as any more than a temporary setback. I don't think they'll forget the lessons of Lord's. Though I don't expect Stokes to get a run a ball hundred every week !

Looks like they'll be chasing a few here. So our reaction if a few wickets are "thrown away" may be tested fairly soon...weather permitting.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by dummy_half on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:02 pm

Obviously, I want England to win by bowling NZ out for 150 and knocking them off quickly, but the more masochistic side of me would like to see NZ get a good total (in the region of 350-375) so that we can see how well this batting line-up can chase a score.

One of the things that impressed me on Tuesday was how many of the runs came from proper cricket shots, and how little we resorted to the sort of slogging that gets batters out (last 5 overs or so excepted). By comparison, I thought NZ went for too much too soon and too wildly - scoreboard pressure got to them.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:04 pm

I see Jordan is coming in for a lot of criticism on here. I do agree that he needs to start producing a bit more ; and I think that with the arrival of Wood , he faces a battle to keep his place in the pecking order.
But he has only played a handful of Tests ; and not a huge number of ODIs ; and I am not inclined to write him off just yet.

Also should note that his figures in both formats bear favourable comparison with those of Plunkett : which is not intended as a sledge at the latter. Just saying.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:07 pm

NZ off to a good start at 93/1...

Rashid on : this will be a different kind of test for him.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by dummy_half on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:20 pm

We're doing OK in pegging them back after a flying start - 100 coming up in the 15th over is OK against a team with McCullum and Guptil up first.

Be interesting to see how Rashid goes without the protection of the runs on the board. I liked how he bowled on Tuesday, particularly his use of the googly and top spinner, but his figures were helped by him getting the chance to bowl at some lower order guys who are generally incompetent against good legspin.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by wisden on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:27 pm

big wicket of Guptill, much needed as well.. Rashid bowling well here

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:31 pm

England pulling things back after that Guptill wicket.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:46 pm

Pulled back a little : but at 150/2 after 23 you'd still reckon they are on for 350.
Wickets could change things , of course. But the batsmen look comfortable at present.

Fifty for Williamson clap

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by wisden on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:48 pm

McCulum's knock will probably go un-noticed, but his 39 in no time, really helped set the platform here for NZ, they got off to a flyer, and allowed Guptill etc to take their time, and they will go big here

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:52 pm

You'd think that at this stage NZ will want to add at least another 200 runs to this total.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by wisden on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:54 pm

Would like to see Ben Stokes have a crack at Taylor with the short ball for a few overs, put deep square out, and have a go for a few overs

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:55 pm

Rashid getting some drift and just a little bit of turn, but England would want him to convert that into a wicket or 2 quickly

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:58 pm

Without Corey Anderson at 6, that NZ lineup looks a bit weaker......

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by wisden on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:58 pm

He's bowled well again to be fair to him, has been impressive.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:03 pm

My only criticism Wisden, ironically as Gower has just pointed out on commentary is that he's been a little short at times and allowed the batsmen to play him off the back foot.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:08 pm

400+ coming up for New Zealand?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:09 pm

Runs coming a bit too easily for NZ . Big score unless England can grab a couple of wickets

Finn back. Was about to suggest that...

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:19 pm

And Stokes ( who has been used sparingly ) back too.

Might not see much more spin. WASP might be conservative at 377 ?

This is the sort of pitch on which you'd like to bat when chasing high 300s ... But once you're chasing much over 320 the odds aren't on your side...

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:37 pm

Good use of TV umpire then ! Nothing wrong with that delivery really...and a very welcome wicket for England !

Stokes has done well today. Needs to continue through this power play...

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:41 pm

Bit game bowling Rashid in the power play ! And a no ball...though he rather got away with the free hit.
But not the next ball...

Good fifty Taylor clap

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:53 pm

And now after a few quiet overs Taylor has gone into overdrive...

11-15-18 from the last three overs...and the innings is back on track for 380 plus.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 4:02 pm

Jordan getting completely shredded...

Looks like 400 plus.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 4:04 pm

Huge wicket.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 4:06 pm

A wicket here for Jordan, but NZ are in command here and England would need at least a couple more quick wickets to restrict them to 350-360.......

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 4:08 pm

A wicket indeed. Some consolation for Jordan , who really has had a horror day. And handy for England...though they need more of them .

Ronchi in. Jordan may not bowl again today as Plunkett/Stokes and Finn can finish from here .

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 4:12 pm

But Jordan is bowling again...

Not sure Morgan is doing him any favours. Smile

Not sure why his most expensive bowlers is continuing at all ?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 4:14 pm

It's a little bit like village cricket during a preseason friendly Alfie. "Oh, you went for 20 in that over, but you got a wicket. Have another over" picard
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 4:17 pm

Despite that wicket Jordan is being pumelled.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 4:18 pm

As is Plunkett Sad

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Fri 12 Jun 2015, 4:21 pm

Thought I should do away with ODIs in India, turning out the format isn't worth it any more as the bowlers have not much role......

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