England v New Zealand ODI Thread

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England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 10:35 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures

Tuesday 9th June 2015
14:00 Edgbaston

Friday 12th June 2015
13:00 The Kia Oval

Sunday 14th June 2015
10:30 The Ageas Bowl

Wednesday 17th June 2015
14:00 Trent Bridge

Saturday 20th June 2015
10:30 Emirates Durham ICG


New Zealand Squad

Brendon McCullum (c)
Corey Anderson
Trent Boult
Grant Elliott
Martin Guptill
Matt Henry
Tom Latham (wk)
Mitchell McClenaghan
Nathan McCullum
Adam Milne±
Luke Ronchi (wk)
Mitchell Santner
Tim Southee
Ross Taylor
Ben Wheeler
Kane Williamson


England Squad

TBC


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Capitalising "England")

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 12:59 pm

Stokes nipping out Guptill at a good time ...just as NZ were starting to accelerate. Bit of extra bounce then drawing an edge.
Santner in : wonder if he will launch at Rashid early ?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 1:12 pm

Ha ! Rashid gets his revenge on Santner today...does him beautifully with one that turned quite a bit clap

Drew him forward , just beat him in flight and turned in to bowl him...excellent. He has spun a couple recently ....and probably should have just had a c&b then...

Good over.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 1:47 pm

3 chances of varying difficulty put down off rashid's bowling.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 1:47 pm

Ordinary power play ...just 38 runs , though no wickets.

NZ with ten overs left to add to their 206/4.

Rashid to bowl his last...and a dropped catch immediately ! Not easy , but Morgan would have normally taken that. Wonder if that comes back to bite England ?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 1:48 pm

Nicely beaten with the googly

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 1:51 pm

Elliott stumped ...Rashid has two and it is 210/5 ...

Taylor and Ronchi really all that is left now. Rashid finishes a very good days work clap

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by NickisBHAFC on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 1:52 pm

England doing their job so far on my birthday!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 1:56 pm

Taylor falling to Willey via a good catch from Bairstow ; England well on top with eight overs to go...

A lot depends on Ronchi for the Kiwis.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 1:58 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:England doing their job so far on my birthday!

Happy Birthday Nick cake

The drop off Rashid ended up costing nothing , to Morgan's relief , no doubt.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 2:03 pm

Ronchi gone tamely ...delight for Willey and England. clap

Southee comes out swinging : this might be lively ...

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 2:20 pm

A few good blows from Southee but Stokes has done for him...244/8 with three overs left.
Will they be bowled out here ?  Doesn't look as though England will be chasing much more than 260-265.  Though perhaps this pitch is not quite so easy for the hitters as the previous ones..

Hah ! I hadn't allowed for Wheeler Smile

Quite a finish for NZ ; England may have cause to regret those last couple of overs . Still 283 appears an easier target than 350...


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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 2:32 pm

Well done by Ben Wheeler.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 2:36 pm

Massive last over but an entertaining innings overall from New Zealand. Didn't watch a lot of it, but it seams that the bowlers had something more to do than just turning up and getting smashed.
Are they playing on a decent track at last? Or is it that New Zealand batted poorly? Or is it that the England bowlers produced something absolutely extraordinary on yet another flat road?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 2:39 pm

It was a primarily slow but also two paced pitch and a cold day. Timing the ball was difficult. Very little for bowlers or batters on that pitch on one innings evidence.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 2:41 pm

N
msp83 wrote:Massive last over but an entertaining innings overall from New Zealand. Didn't watch a lot of it, but it seams that the bowlers had something more to do than just turning up and getting smashed.
Are they playing on a decent track at last? Or is it that New Zealand batted poorly? Or is it that the England bowlers produced something absolutely extraordinary on yet another flat road?

Didn't see the early stuff myself either , msp. But probably a bit of all three.

Your man , Rashid , bowled pretty well , I thought. So did Stokes.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 2:41 pm

Rashid with 2-45. Pretty decent figures from him, though his fielders didn't always back him up.......

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 2:45 pm

One thing that Rashid has managed to do in this series is to bust the myth that he is a total misfit at international level. Couple of good games in a 5 match ODI series isn't bad though it is not exceptional. Will he be required with the bat?

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 2:49 pm

To be fair Rashid dropped one of the 3 chances off his bowling.

Across the series I felt Rashid bowled OK in Game 1. Better in game 2 but without the rewards. Did not see Game 3, while in game 4 he was not great (except for 50th over). A lot os the issues were because he was bowling a different delivery every ball. While I am sure the intention was to prevent the batsmen settling on a batting paradise, it actually meant he could build no rhythm.

Today was comfortably the best he has bowled. He had nice rhythm, great loop and dip and at times huge turn. As with the Oval game he was beating batsmen playing defensive shots - which gives some hope for getting rewards if called up for any Tests.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 4:09 pm

msp83 wrote:One thing that Rashid has managed to do in this series is to bust the myth that he is a total misfit at international level. Couple of good games in a 5 match ODI series isn't bad though it is not exceptional. Will he be required with the bat?

Not sure anyone described him as a "misfit" at International level ? How could they know ... He hasn't played it since he was a kid !

Been mixed . Good start , good finish...and some handy batting. Done his cause no harm ...

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 4:18 pm

But I fear this match is headed for a watery grave Sad

Pity , after four cracking games.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by msp83 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 4:28 pm

Just when I thought we would have a good, entertaining game that can entertain without being a slogfest, the rain has to come and ruin it all.......

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 4:34 pm

msp83 wrote:Just when I thought we would have a good, entertaining game that can entertain without being a slogfest, the rain has to come and ruin it all.......

Indeed. The only consolation is neither team loses : they have both played some exciting cricket.

At least I am enjoying watching the athletics - quite sunny in Russia Smile

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 4:45 pm

Hi all.

It's been a brilliant tour so far. Let's hope it's not ruined by the rain last day.

I thought I would give you lads a bit of peace after all that nonsense from my favourite mod LD(just kidding.. Been busy)

Things are looking up.. Bring on the ashes ..

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 6:01 pm

Have to say, I hate the D/L method. Original rate roughly 5.5 an over, the rain comes without a ball bowled in Englands innings and suddenly the rate jumps to nearly 8. There has to be better way to work it out than suddenly lumping the pressure on the batting team.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 6:02 pm

This is another reason why I dislike one day cricket, the D/L method has completely ruined what was actually a decent game, changing an innings building chase into effectively a T20 chase.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by GSC on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 7:29 pm

Fabulous innings from Bairstow, coming back from a first run in the team when he didn't look up to par
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 7:31 pm

Bairstow. You legend..


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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by alfie on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 7:32 pm

Brilliant win by England , in the end guinness

Though it seems no one on here stayed to watch it ?

Bairstow had a terrific return to the International scene : had some luck , but hey...

England deserved to win that series : I reckon they will be celebrating tonight ! Worth missing my sleep for that.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hibbz on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 7:34 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:This is another reason why I dislike one day cricket, the D/L method has completely ruined what was actually a decent game, changing an innings building chase into effectively a T20 chase.

Think this is one of those times Mike Selig was talking about when someone has to just admit they were wrong.

I've never been the biggest fan of ODI's but I've massively enjoyed watching the young England side playing some thrilling cricket and clearly enjoying the experience.

Great stuff.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by KP_fan on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 7:40 pm

clap clap
no blemishes......no complaints...pitches notwithstanding, Eng has played super cricket.
If they take this attitude into test cricket...they will compete against every side in the world
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 7:44 pm

Rubbish series, fittingly brought to a rubbish end by the rubbish D/L system which, in a truly rubbish sense, deals a pair of aces to the batting side. And still the batting side nearly messed it up!

Now where's my thesaurus?!

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 8:04 pm

That was more like being dealt seven deuce off suit, the bowling side got dealt the aces.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by PaulHv2 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 8:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:Rubbish series, fittingly brought to a rubbish end by the rubbish D/L system which, in a truly rubbish sense, deals a pair of aces to the batting side. And still the batting side nearly messed it up!

Now where's my thesaurus?!

What? Why? Yes the bat dominated, but fans have been calling for England to play like that for bloody ages and now they're doing it the series is suddenly rubbish? picard
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 8:13 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That was more like being dealt seven deuce off suit, the bowling side got dealt the aces.

Well, personally speaking, I think asking a batting side to make a required rate of 7.38 for a measly 26 overs (the smaller number of overs being the key), with all ten wickets in hand, is a pretty simple task.

Mind you, the side batting last always get favour with D/L (especially in T20s).

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 8:15 pm

I'm not sure how having to go for it from the get go is an advantage, chasing 283 with 50 overs is a far easier proposition when you have the chance to build an innings, the teams have accelerated in the mid overs not from the start.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 8:24 pm

PaulHv2 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Rubbish series, fittingly brought to a rubbish end by the rubbish D/L system which, in a truly rubbish sense, deals a pair of aces to the batting side. And still the batting side nearly messed it up!

Now where's my thesaurus?!

What? Why? Yes the bat dominated, but fans have been calling for England to play like that for bloody ages and now they're doing it the series is suddenly rubbish? picard

Well however the English folks were playing is little concern of mine. I suppose it was good of them to try out some new scintillating limited over stuff (mind you, I remember them doing something similar in 2010, with a minor resurgence in 2012, before it tailed off all together), but we'll have to wait to see if this is developed more consistently.

The reason for why I think this series was a load of rubbish was because of the extreme imbalance between bat and ball, partially because of the pitches, but also due to the rules. It seems to be hailed as such a great series by some because of the high amount of runs scored, the huge amount of sixes. Bowlers are being pushed to the sidelines; their contribution in the limited-overs game is becoming an increased irrelevance.

One hopes that this isn't the direction that cricket will descend to, but it seems likely.

England v Australia at the 2003 World Cup - now that's a proper ODI game.

And the BBC have just said that England have "announced themselves as a serious force in ODI cricket." picard

Oh do get me the gin and tonic.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 8:26 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'm not sure how having to go for it from the get go is an advantage, chasing 283 with 50 overs is a far easier proposition when you have the chance to build an innings, the teams have accelerated in the mid overs not from the start.

Well that was the mistake the English made in this game. They could have built a miniature foundation - 90/2 after 15 overs, say, and attacked the final 11 overs needing a shade over nine an over.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 8:58 pm

I'm not sure why people think it's not been entertaining and how the ODI game isn't a better game now but each to their own and all that.

Excellent work by England this series - to beat the world cup finalists over five games is no mean feat
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 10:13 pm

Only just calmed down after that brainless batting display, thank god for Jonny.

Struggling to understand the moaning about the D/L target. Seemed fair enough, and frankly D/L is far better than any other system I have seen used for re-adjusting targets following rain.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by GSC on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 10:17 pm

Olly wrote:I'm not sure why people think it's not been entertaining and how the ODI game isn't a better game now but each to their own and all that.

Excellent work by England this series - to beat the world cup finalists over five games is no mean feat

Some people will just never be happy unless they have something to moan about. We went toe to toe with the runners up of the last World Cup, ill take that.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 20 Jun 2015, 10:44 pm

GSC wrote:
Olly wrote:I'm not sure why people think it's not been entertaining and how the ODI game isn't a better game now but each to their own and all that.

Excellent work by England this series - to beat the world cup finalists over five games is no mean feat

We went toe to toe with the runners up of the last World Cup, ill take that.

England should have done that three or four bloody months ago!

I'm not usually one to have a whinge - I'm normally quite a positive fellow - but I am certainly one to tell it how I see it.

And I see this as a meaningless ODI series, played on placid pitches, against uninterested opposition.

The real stuff was four months ago; little point doing it now!


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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 7:16 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'm not sure how having to go for it from the get go is an advantage, chasing 283 with 50 overs is a far easier proposition when you have the chance to build an innings, the teams have accelerated in the mid overs not from the start.

I assume they were aware of the weather and that DL could easily screw them

They do however have a dogmatic attacking approach now. Over time I sure this will mature

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 7:18 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:This is another reason why I dislike one day cricket, the D/L method has completely ruined what was actually a decent game, changing an innings building chase into effectively a T20 chase.

What else do you propose? Extra days? Its certainly a hell of an improvement over the old system.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 8:10 am

I completely agree that D/L is better than previous methods of adjusting targets. It is not flawless, but works especially well when the interruption is between innings. Which is why I struggle to see how D/L screwed England?


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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 10:00 am

I also struggle to see how D/L screwed England.

Asking them to make 7.38 an over for 26 overs is a doddle in this era, particularly with all ten wickets in hand.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 11:35 am

LondonTiger wrote:I completely agree that D/L is better than previous methods of adjusting targets. It is not flawless, but works especially well when the interruption is between innings. Which is why I struggle to see how D/L screwed England?


Spot on.

People complaining about D/L are really moaning that it rains in England. Short of inventing a weather machine to guarantee sunshine on cricket days, D/L will have to do and imo it generally does fine as it did yesterday.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 21 Jun 2015, 11:45 am

LondonTiger wrote:To be fair Rashid dropped one of the 3 chances off his bowling.

Across the series I felt Rashid bowled OK in Game 1. Better in game 2 but without the rewards. Did not see Game 3, while in game 4 he was not great (except for 50th over). A lot os the issues were because he was bowling a different delivery every ball. While I am sure the intention was to prevent the batsmen settling on a batting paradise, it actually meant he could build no rhythm.

Today was comfortably the best he has bowled. He had nice rhythm, great loop and dip and at times huge turn. As with the Oval game he was beating batsmen playing defensive shots - which gives some hope for getting rewards if called up for any Tests.

It's irritating to side with Tiger twice in a row but it's a very good point to make about Rashid beating batsmen playing defensive shots. He bowled well yesterday and deserved his Tredwellian type figures of 2/45 off 10 overs. Wink

I wasn't though particularly impressed by Rashid in game 2 at the Oval where I was watching. Possibly you, Tiger, saw more in the close ups and replays? I thought it was a mixed bag from him there with a few too many ''hit me'' balls.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

Post by Jetty on Sat 27 Jun 2015, 2:00 am

Santner 5 games
Mathieson 1
Wheeler 3
Henry 14

There will be no scores of 350/400 against Starc, Johnson and Hazlewood later in the ODIs.

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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread

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