YES is miles ahead of NO in latest EU referendum poll !!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 2:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Latest ICM poll - Should Britain stay in Europe ????...

Stay in 59%.......................Get out 41% .....

Common sense seems to be prevailing..


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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 3:49 pm

Laugh

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 3:51 pm

seanmichaels wrote:That's the great thing, for all the whining and Prince Edward's army nonsense, the Scots are essentially as much our bitches now as they have ever been.

Or perhaps the other way around watching English MP's begging Scots to vote no.
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Post by Steffan on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 3:53 pm

seanmichaels wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:

Well that purely depends on your view point. Pray tell how are the Tories faring in Scotland? It says voters in Scotland are far happier with the SNP in charge than the Tories who are now virtually extinct as a political party in Scotland.

They (we) can still up yout taxes though OK
Wow. You really are one of those 'My dad drives a better car than your dad and is harder in a fight' type of people aren't you

Unless this is a WUM of course

I am hoping for your sake it's the latter

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Post by Steffan on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 3:54 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:That's the great thing, for all the whining and Prince Edward's army nonsense, the Scots are essentially as much our bitches now as they have ever been.

Or perhaps the other way around watching English MP's begging Scots to vote no.
Not just English MPs.....the English PM

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 3:55 pm

Ok, enough. Stop the mud-slinging and debate like adults.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 4:38 pm

Thnk if the Scots do want independence they are going to need a referendum sooner rather than later....

The SNP can't sustain this high for long...

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 4:55 pm

Scotland should have been given more than they were re. additional devolved tax-raising powers. It's not so easy having responsibility and not being able to simply take swipes at UKG for all of Scotland's perceived problems etc. Swinney raised many taxes recently?
Give 'em enough rope...
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:03 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:I am puzzled. I have yet to see people wanting out of the EU being portrayed as foaming at the mouth xenophobic bigots as was generally the case for Scots wishing to go it alone.

Because most of the Scots indepedence vote was driven by and drawn from knuckle-draggers? As evidenced by pretty much any and every rally on tv.

Hindisght is a wonderful thing, but seeing the state of the world in 2016, makes SNP's claims even more laughable now.

Well that purely depends on your view point. Pray tell how are the Tories faring in Scotland? It says voters in Scotland are far happier with the SNP in charge than the Tories who are now virtually extinct as a political party in Scotland.

What depends on your viewpoint?

The SNP's paper thin economic arguments have been blown through a hundred times over by the crash in oil prices.

That's nothing to do with Tories or how they fare up in Scotland.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:09 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:I am puzzled. I have yet to see people wanting out of the EU being portrayed as foaming at the mouth xenophobic bigots as was generally the case for Scots wishing to go it alone.

Where have you been? You must have missed all the 'Little England' jibes.

You see that is what I refuse to accept.

Why is there the mis-perception that Scots want independence or Brits wanting out of Europe because there is anti-feeling there. It is merely level-headed people genuinely believing that their country could fair far better without having big brother (UK or Europe) determining how to run your country.

You're part of Britain and be thankful.....

The SNP's independent economy figures looked like they came from a 12 year old's calculator...The relatively close vote shows the dangers of BLIND nationalism..

Didn't even know what currency you were going to use a month out from the Election !!.....

Britain has more chance of going alone than Scotland and my guess is most people won't be voting over blind hatred of a neighboring Country..


Nope the close vote shows that their plans had substance and a lot of believers in it rather than blind nationalism.


1. It wasn't that close. As I've pointed out before.

2. The fact that it was built on foundations of economic bullsh!t, which have since been totally blown apart, and still there is support, is testament to 'blind nationalism' as the phrase is in reference ot ignorant jingoism as opposed to balanced rationale and logic.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:12 pm

Your viewpoint that those backing/pushing for independence were knuckledraggers. Pretty pathetic really.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:15 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:I am puzzled. I have yet to see people wanting out of the EU being portrayed as foaming at the mouth xenophobic bigots as was generally the case for Scots wishing to go it alone.

Where have you been? You must have missed all the 'Little England' jibes.

You see that is what I refuse to accept.

Why is there the mis-perception that Scots want independence or Brits wanting out of Europe because there is anti-feeling there. It is merely level-headed people genuinely believing that their country could fair far better without having big brother (UK or Europe) determining how to run your country.

You're part of Britain and be thankful.....

The SNP's independent economy figures looked like they came from a 12 year old's calculator...The relatively close vote shows the dangers of BLIND nationalism..

Didn't even know what currency you were going to use a month out from the Election !!.....

Britain has more chance of going alone than Scotland and my guess is most people won't be voting over blind hatred of a neighboring Country..


Nope the close vote shows that their plans had substance and a lot of believers in it rather than blind nationalism.


1. It wasn't that close. As I've pointed out before.

2. The fact that it was built on foundations of economic bullsh!t, which have since been totally blown apart, and still there is support, is testament to 'blind nationalism' as the phrase is in reference ot ignorant jingoism as opposed to balanced rationale and logic.

Blind nationalism? When has this blind nationalism been running rife in Scotland? 5 years? 10 years? 50 years? Or longer?


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:17 pm

1995

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:26 pm

And again you can spout whatever you want about what independence's foundations were built on as all that is opinion.

Lets remember that we have had a No vote so if the SNP is so full of uselessness and clueless then why are Tories and Labour virtually defunct in Scotland? People are voting the SNP in as Scotland's government is hardly a clear statement that Scottish voters see the SNP as clueless does it?
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:27 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:And again you can spout whatever you want about what independence's foundations were built on as all that is opinion.

Lets remember that we have had a No vote so if the SNP is do full of uselessness and clueless then why are Tories and Labour virtually defunct in Scotland? People are voting the SNP in as Scotland's government is hardly a clear statement that Scottish voters see the SNP as vlueless does it?

You know why...................

Scotland hates the Tories........and Labour are in meltdown..

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:28 pm

As Navy pointed out, they lucked out. If they'd been given more devolved powers they'd have to bear responsibility for the state of scotland. As it is the Tories are at fault and probably always will be.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:34 pm

In fairness though they've had two quality leaders that ooze passion, (whether false or not) are good debaters... and get the messages across...

Labour take the note..

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:39 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:And again you can spout whatever you want about what independence's foundations were built on as all that is opinion.

Lets remember that we have had a No vote so if the SNP is do full of uselessness and clueless then why are Tories and Labour virtually defunct in Scotland? People are voting the SNP in as Scotland's government is hardly a clear statement that Scottish voters see the SNP as vlueless does it?

You know why...................

Scotland hates the Tories........and Labour are in meltdown..

No I'd say it is clearly because both parties are puppets of Westminster. Basically Scottish Conservative or Scottish Labour MP's vote for the good of the Westminster-based party not for the good of Scotland and Scots have had enough of this. I do believe that even a prominent Labour MP (name escapes me) acknowledges this to be Scottish Labour's problem. Scottish Labour need to re-invent itself in Scotland as does Scottish Conservative - they still operate in Scotland with Westminster's interests first and Scotland's last.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:50 pm

Disagree.............

Scottish people had seen enough of Blair (let's not forget Labour was in power in Holyrood when the parliament began in 1999!!)......Miliband was crap and didn't pull away from Blair enough and Corbyn is a joke..

The Scots will eventually get sick of this lot..........It's politics......and it's cyclable....

The Tories will never do well in a left wing Country..


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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:56 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Disagree.............

Scottish people had seen enough of Blair (let's not forget Labour was in power in Holyrood when the parliament began in 1999!!)......Miliband was crap and didn't pull away from Blair enough and Corbyn is a joke..

The Scots will eventually get sick of this lot..........It's politics......and it's cyclable....

The Tories will never do well in a left wing Country..


No it is clear to me as having lived there and rubbed shoulders with voters and knowing what they are looking for and they want a constituent in place who will vote first and foremost on what is best for Scotland not Westminster and Scots have seen enough in recent decades to tell them that is neither Conservative or Labour (even though they laughingly carry the Scottish tag before their names).
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Post by superflyweight on Mon 18 Jan 2016, 11:11 pm

Hush everyone, CC wants to make a speech -

https://vid.me/zpRW

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 1:40 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:if the SNP is so full of uselessness and clueless then why are Tories and Labour virtually defunct in Scotland?

Because of First Past the Post.

A shade under half of Scottish voters voted for the SNP (49.97%), yet this translates into 95% of the available seats. Nearly 1 in 4 Scottish voters voted for Labour (24.3%), yet this only equals 1 out of the 59 available seats; for Conservatives it was the same number of seats for just under 15% of the vote.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 2:10 am

However, the system is set it changes nothing. Half of Scots (and other nationalities elgible to vote voted SNP). Does that equate to 50% knuckledraggers then? To 50% of people brain-dead who vote for a party regardless of policies even if it is damaging to them financially and to the services and lifestyle they get because of the SNP policies? Of course not. At the end of the day voters will vote for what is best for them and so evidently the SNP are doing something right with voters.

In any case this voting system has been in place for years now and it still does not change the fact that there has been a groundswell of support gor the SNP. Like I said Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour have lost a big share of their voters because they are seen as puppets to the Westminster-based parties who have lost touch with their Scottish voters. If they want to re-establish themselves north of the border they need to re-invent themselves.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 8:59 am

Scottish Tories and Labour are part of national parties. They can advocate all they like for their constituents (I'm sure they actually do, despite what Nationalists etc think) but they're beholden to the fact things are done on a U.K.-wide basis. While they might debate a point of view, ultimately, it may not get onto statute. That's democracy I'm afraid. To get what you're advocating, they'd have to set up actual separate political parties.

How many times during the independence prelude did we hear things like "I'm fed up getting a Government I never voted for!" and how often did that get traction? Too much and too many times. Talk about immature and childish. How many people U.K.-wide didn't vote Tory and yet that's what they have to put up with? That sort of thing happens for someone in every election. That's democracy, but they don't spit the dummy out and demand independence, as if that'll solve all their perceived ills.
The increased SNP vote in the Scottish elections post-referendum was simply because yet more selfish buggers, some of whom were content to vote 'No' in the referendum, decided that they'd like to rage against UKG even more, while still having the nice little comfort blanket of being in the U.K. and the Barnett Formula.

I'm only sorry it wasn't a 'Yes' vote as, despite the fact I genuinely think it would have been a negative outcome for everyone in the U.K., it would have been funny to watch the resulting socialist utopia go into meltdown.

Just for the record, no, I don't think it's a good idea, on balance, for the U.K. to leave the E.U. either.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 9:13 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:Your viewpoint that those backing/pushing for independence were knuckledraggers. Pretty pathetic really.

Super has already dealt with that point.

Astute rational folk in support of indpendence were very thin on the ground. Nobody I spoke to that was successful or driven was in support of leaving the UK. It was almost exclusively the irrelevantly old or passionate, but ignorant, young. Hence why nobody could sustain an argument in support of independence.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 9:17 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:And again you can spout whatever you want about what independence's foundations were built on as all that is opinion.

Lets remember that we have had a No vote so if the SNP is so full of uselessness and clueless then why are Tories and Labour virtually defunct in Scotland? People are voting the SNP in as Scotland's government is hardly a clear statement that Scottish voters see the SNP as clueless does it?

Because the Scots would rather be run by the SNP and have greater belief in the SNP to better run the country based on the allowances provided by Westminster, but thankfully a sufficiently large enough proporation of the population were not stupid enough to vote for independence and cut the purse strings with SNP allowed free reign.

Not sure what you're struggling with so much. Your inability to segregate arguments and rationale is testament to a lot, really.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 9:17 am

It is by no means a crime for people to believe that their country (Scotland) would be better for gaining independence. It really has Fanny Adams to do with any anti-feeling but more pro or positive feeling that Scotland (like many many countries a lot of which are smaller and have less going for them) should have independence.

The point about Scottish Labour and Scottish Conservative parties pandering to what big brother at Westminster wants is recognised even within those parties as they have said that need to re-focus and re-invent themselves in Scotland. issues such as elected MP's voting to go to war (Blair's phoney war) merely to tow the party line even though it has been shown to be a woeful decision and now the same is happening with Cameron in the Middle East. Other instances such as Tory and Labour MP's supposedly serving in Scotland but willing to tow the party Westminster line even if it is detriment to Scotland are all things that voters in Scotland do not forget.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 9:24 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Your viewpoint that those backing/pushing for independence were knuckledraggers. Pretty pathetic really.

Super has already dealt with that point.

Astute rational folk in support of indpendence were very thin on the ground.  Nobody I spoke to that was successful or driven was in support of leaving the UK. It was almost exclusively the irrelevantly old or passionate, but ignorant, young.  Hence why nobody could sustain an argument in support of independence.

Well if you do move in unionist circles then you will be in a bubble. So you say young and old wanted independence - wide spectrum of age groups there. Also can you enlighten me here as to how when the independence campaign began polls had the No vote at 75% and Yes vote was around 25% yet through the campaign the Yes vote gathered traction whilst the No vote support dipped?
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 9:28 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:And again you can spout whatever you want about what independence's foundations were built on as all that is opinion.

Lets remember that we have had a No vote so if the SNP is so full of uselessness and clueless then why are Tories and Labour virtually defunct in Scotland? People are voting the SNP in as Scotland's government is hardly a clear statement that Scottish voters see the SNP as clueless does it?

Because the Scots would rather be run by the SNP and have greater belief in the SNP to better run the country based on the allowances provided by Westminster, but thankfully a sufficiently large enough proporation of the population were not stupid enough to vote for independence and cut the purse strings with SNP allowed free reign.

Not sure what you're struggling with so much.  Your inability to segregate arguments and rationale is testament to a lot, really.

But wait why would Scots want a bunch of knuckledraggers with no business acumen or common sense governing Scotland at all?
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 9:31 am

navyblueshorts wrote:Scottish Tories and Labour are part of national parties. They can advocate all they like for their constituents (I'm sure they actually do, despite what Nationalists etc think) but they're beholden to the fact things are done on a U.K.-wide basis. While they might debate a point of view, ultimately, it may not get onto statute. That's democracy I'm afraid. To get what you're advocating, they'd have to set up actual separate political parties.

How many times during the independence prelude did we hear things like "I'm fed up getting a Government I never voted for!" and how often did that get traction? Too much and too many times. Talk about immature and childish. How many people U.K.-wide didn't vote Tory and yet that's what they have to put up with? That sort of thing happens for someone in every election. That's democracy, but they don't spit the dummy out and demand independence, as if that'll solve all their perceived ills.
The increased SNP vote in the Scottish elections post-referendum was simply because yet more selfish buggers, some of whom were content to vote 'No' in the referendum, decided that they'd like to rage against UKG even more, while still having the nice little comfort blanket of being in the U.K. and the Barnett Formula.

I'm only sorry it wasn't a 'Yes' vote as, despite the fact I genuinely think it would have been a negative outcome for everyone in the U.K., it would have been funny to watch the resulting socialist utopia go into meltdown.

Just for the record, no, I don't think it's a good idea, on balance, for the U.K. to leave the E.U. either.

Agree, top to bottom.

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Post by seanmichaels on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 9:51 am

This is an article from back in March. Imagine the sh!t they be in now with oil at $28 / barrel and falling (Iranian oil flooding the market) Laugh

Nicola Sturgeon has been forced to admit for the first time that the SNP had got its independence predictions for North Sea oil wrong as it emerged the growing shortfall in Scotland’s finances is the equivalent of a 17p hike in income tax.


The First Minister bowed to opposition pressure and promised to produce revised estimates after the Telegraph disclosed official figures predicting oil will generate more than 90 per cent less than she claimed during the referendum.


She argued that the UK Government had also got its estimates wrong, but the SNP figures were far more inflated and only a Yes vote would have made Scottish public spending dependent on oil revenues.


Her admission came as the impartial Institute for Fiscal Studies published updated figures showing the drop in oil revenues would mean a separate or fiscally autonomous Scotland would be £7.6 billion deeper in the red than at present.

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Post by seanmichaels on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 10:03 am

Lochaber no more
Sutherland no more
Lewis no more
Skye no more

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 10:28 am

seanmichaels wrote:This is an article from back in March. Imagine the sh!t they be in now with oil at $28 / barrel and falling (Iranian oil flooding the market) Laugh

Nicola Sturgeon has been forced to admit for the first time that the SNP had got its independence predictions for North Sea oil wrong as it emerged the growing shortfall in Scotland’s finances is the equivalent of a 17p hike in income tax.


The First Minister bowed to opposition pressure and promised to produce revised estimates after the Telegraph disclosed official figures predicting oil will generate more than 90 per cent less than she claimed during the referendum.


She argued that the UK Government had also got its estimates wrong, but the SNP figures were far more inflated and only a Yes vote would have made Scottish public spending dependent on oil revenues.


Her admission came as the impartial Institute for Fiscal Studies published updated figures showing the drop in oil revenues would mean a separate or fiscally autonomous Scotland would be £7.6 billion deeper in the red than at present.

Read and learn.....

http://www.favrify.com/why-scotland-should-never-be-independent/
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Post by seanmichaels on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 10:40 am

Laugh

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 10:43 am

When someone resorts to that level of stpidity, you know they've lost the argument! laughing

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 10:56 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:When someone resorts to that level of stpidity, you know they've lost the argument! laughing

Or when people cannot accept things for what they are as in people believing Scotland would be better off as an independent country and wanting to pursue that but then say those people are no more than 'knuckledraggers' it is a sad indictment on those.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 10:59 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:When someone resorts to that level of stpidity, you know they've lost the argument! laughing

Or when people cannot accept things for what they are as in people believing Scotland would be better off as an independent country and wanting to pursue that but then say those people are no more than 'knuckledraggers' it is a sad indictment on those.

You can believe the moon is made of cheese and good luck to those that do..

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:00 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:When someone resorts to that level of stpidity, you know they've lost the argument! laughing

Go ahead and pull apart the points made in it as well but bear in mind we could all sit here and do the same about the UK as in NHS in disarray, an age when it use to leadthe world in car manufacturing and electronics has long since gone, a time when the UK produced the majority of its own coal and steel is now long gone and when the UK had its own shipyards.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:01 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:When someone resorts to that level of stpidity, you know they've lost the argument! laughing

Or when people cannot accept things for what they are as in people believing Scotland would be better off as an independent country and wanting to pursue that but then say those people are no more than 'knuckledraggers' it is a sad indictment on those.

You can believe the moon is made of cheese and good luck to those that do..

Or you can believe that Westminster gvernment is the bastion of all that is good and right in this world but there again there is more chance of Santa Claus living at the North Pole.


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by seanmichaels on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:05 am

Santa Claus doesn't exist, much like an Independent Scotland.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:08 am

seanmichaels wrote:Santa Claus doesn't exist, much like an Independent Scotland.

The day will come - the sheer incompetence of Westminster governments continue to erode away voters confidence. Heck it has got so bad that even England want their own government and parliament so you see it is not just the Scottish or Welsh just that the English were a little slower on the uptake - bless them. Wink
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Post by seanmichaels on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:13 am

Dominant power in the Union, why go it alone when you can milk the lesser partners. It'll stay that way I think, particularly whilst Mary 'Doll' Nesbitt and her crew are in charge.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:28 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:Or when people cannot accept things for what they are as in people believing Scotland would be better off as an independent country...
You selfish, "What's in it for me?", "I can do better on my own! The rest of you go hang.", little Scotlander. In all the rhetoric pre- and post-referendum, it's all about how much better off you'd be isn't it? You decry Thatcher (and God knows bang on about her enough even though she's irrelevant to 21st century UK politics) and yet you're advocating a national version of "I'm alright Jack".
The World is inevitably heading for closer integration of peoples and you want to smash up a hugely successful, mutually beneficial union just because of some childish ideals (and I use that last, very loosely)? You're not some ex-Soviet conquest of recent history trying to break free. Grow up.
Done with this. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:30 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:When someone resorts to that level of stpidity, you know they've lost the argument! laughing

Or when people cannot accept things for what they are as in people believing Scotland would be better off as an independent country and wanting to pursue that but then say those people are no more than 'knuckledraggers' it is a sad indictment on those.

BUT YOU CAN'T PROVE OR SUPPORT ANY OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?????!!!!!!!

This is why you get 'knuckle dragger' comments. Pig ignorant refusal to accept that this is no economic case to support Scottish independence. And there barely ever was.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:32 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:When someone resorts to that level of stpidity, you know they've lost the argument! laughing

Go ahead and pull apart the points made in it as well but bear in mind we could all sit here and do the same about the UK as in NHS in disarray, an age when it use to leadthe world in car manufacturing and electronics has long since gone, a time when the UK produced the majority of its own coal and steel is now long gone and when the UK had its own shipyards.

It's first point was "Scotland has no natural resources" which is obviously pathetically immature bullsh*t as it does - however the extent is debated and the value has plummeted. The article pays no heed to either.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:33 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Or when people cannot accept things for what they are as in people believing Scotland would be better off as an independent country...
You selfish, "What's in it for me?", "I can do better on my own! The rest of you go hang.", little Scotlander. In all the rhetoric pre- and post-referendum, it's all about how much better off you'd be isn't it? You decry Thatcher (and God knows bang on about her enough even though she's irrelevant to 21st century UK politics) and yet you're advocating a national version of "I'm alright Jack".
The World is inevitably heading for closer integration of peoples and you want to smash up a hugely successful, mutually beneficial union just because of some childish ideals (and I use that last, very loosely)? You're not some ex-Soviet conquest of recent history trying to break free. Grow up.
Done with this. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...

Everyone holds different views on what is best for us. The difference is I don't shell out insults to those with a differing view point or get all aeriated. You love the union - so be it. Others believe in independence but are knuckledraggers. Rolling Eyes

Fair? Of course not.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:41 am

If it's covered in feathers, has a beak and webbed feet, bobs around on the water and goes quack - call it a duck. If someone demonstrates unending stupidity, ignorance and point black refusal to contribute rationale to support their argument - call them a knuckledragger.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:48 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:If it's covered in feathers, has a beak and webbed feet, bobs around on the water and goes quack - call it a duck.  If someone demonstrates unending stupidity, ignorance and point black refusal to contribute rationale to support their argument - call them a knuckledragger.

And this post in itself demonstrates my point. If you can't bully or brainwash someone into big brothers opinion then resort to the insults.

Anyway lets sit back and see what happens in the next round of elections. People here should rush along and get backing Scottish Labour and Conservative for a big influx of seats won surely? If not why not? Surely, Labour and Tories are a better option than knuckledraggers? But wait they got ousted by knuckledraggers? Heck what does that say about the Labour and Tory candidates then?
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 12:14 pm

Ironic comment re bullying & brainwashing.

As per Navy, and in the words of a great successful Scottish businessman who supported keeping the Union, "I'm ooot!"

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Post by superflyweight on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 12:44 pm

Did we not have this argument a few months back?  

As I said at the time - the SNP's victory at the UK General Election and its inevitable victory at the upcoming Scottish elections is not because of their successes in government over the last 8 years.  It's because they are the only significant party of independence and anyone who supports independence will vote for them regardless of whether or not they think the SNP are competent or whether or not they agree with the SNP's policies.  For evidence of that you only need to look at the number of traditional far-left leaning voters who will vote for a party that at best is slightly left of centre (think Blairite).  

It's a fairly simple concept, if you want independence vote SNP as no one else is offering it.  

As a result a significant minority of the population votes SNP.  A significant minority is more than enough to sweep to general election victories as the "No" vote will be spread out across all of the parties rather than lumped on one party.  


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 27 Jan 2016, 7:01 pm

Commentators seem to think that June is a done deal...I think so too..

The polls have never been better for in..

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