YES is miles ahead of NO in latest EU referendum poll !!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 2:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Latest ICM poll - Should Britain stay in Europe ????...

Stay in 59%.......................Get out 41% .....

Common sense seems to be prevailing..


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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 1:49 pm

Duty281 wrote:It's just incredibly tiresome to read posts by people who think themselves so morally superior to another's viewpoint that it is somehow beneath them to give a meaningful reply, or that that other poster should be dismissed as 'that sort of person' and henceforth their viewpoint is irrelevant.

This is meant to be a 'debate' forum, after all. You are expected to disagree with each other, but to do so in a way that is conductive to a debate.
Pot? Meet Mr. Kettle...
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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 1:50 pm

Rowley wrote:
greengoblin wrote:

This is the problem with the left's approach to the debate on immigration. .

Christ on a bike, how far to the right do you have to be to describe Top Hat as left wing!!!

TopHat is a lefty, isn't he? I've read very little from him to defeat the notion that he is a left-winger, he voted for the left-leaning and so-called Conservative party, and he is in favour of the European Union and mass immigration. At a push, you might say he's aligns perfectly down the middle.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 1:51 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:It's just incredibly tiresome to read posts by people who think themselves so morally superior to another's viewpoint that it is somehow beneath them to give a meaningful reply, or that that other poster should be dismissed as 'that sort of person' and henceforth their viewpoint is irrelevant.

This is meant to be a 'debate' forum, after all. You are expected to disagree with each other, but to do so in a way that is conductive to a debate.
Pot? Meet Mr. Kettle...

Oh, behave.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 1:59 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I am getting a bit frustrated by Cameron's negotiations, his narrow-minded focus on what is a fairly minor point is annoying. Very few migrants from the EU end up claiming benefits (I think official statistics put it at somewhere like 2%?), and you're really not saving much by banning them from doing so. Therefore his insistence on putting this four-year ban on the table is IMO distracting from the real issues and what should be a very serious debate about a very important decision.

Exactly, this is a tedious and complete non-issue. A smokescreen to distract from the fact that Cameron asked for bugger all, and has got bugger all.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 2:08 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Rowley wrote:
greengoblin wrote:

This is the problem with the left's approach to the debate on immigration. .

Christ on a bike, how far to the right do you have to be to describe Top Hat as left wing!!!

TopHat is a lefty, isn't he? I've read very little from him to defeat the notion that he is a left-winger, he voted for the left-leaning and so-called Conservative party, and he is in favour of the European Union and mass immigration. At a push, you might say he's aligns perfectly down the middle.

Surely this is wumming....

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 2:15 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Rowley wrote:
greengoblin wrote:

This is the problem with the left's approach to the debate on immigration. .

Christ on a bike, how far to the right do you have to be to describe Top Hat as left wing!!!

TopHat is a lefty, isn't he? I've read very little from him to defeat the notion that he is a left-winger, he voted for the left-leaning and so-called Conservative party, and he is in favour of the European Union and mass immigration. At a push, you might say he's aligns perfectly down the middle.

Surely this is wumming....

No, no, genuine thought.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 2:23 pm

Chuck in pro-NHS but anti-Trade Union....just to add to the confusion....

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 2:24 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Rowley wrote:
greengoblin wrote:

This is the problem with the left's approach to the debate on immigration. .

Christ on a bike, how far to the right do you have to be to describe Top Hat as left wing!!!

TopHat is a lefty, isn't he? I've read very little from him to defeat the notion that he is a left-winger, he voted for the left-leaning and so-called Conservative party, and he is in favour of the European Union and mass immigration. At a push, you might say he's aligns perfectly down the middle.

Surely this is wumming....

No, no, genuine thought.

Then all I can say is, wow.

With regard to domestic policy, Toppy is far-right and very pro-rich. The Conservative government is probably the most far-right government the UK has had in the last 100 years, inequality is skyrocketing, the rich are getting richer, top rate of tax has been cut, benefits are being cut, the disabled are being singled out and the completely inept and corrupt Chancellor has just let off the world's largest company with a paltry £130m tax bill.

There you have it folks, if you support staying in the EU, for whatever reason, you're a lefty.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 2:42 pm

Doubt this Tory UKG are the most right wing we've had. Thatcher more so.

Until this TU bill they've done nothing re the scourge of the TUs. Economically the top-rate of tax cut is a total misnomer - it was only brought in to try find some cash somewhere in the recession, like the 20% VAT rate, except it didn't raise any actual money. Hence may as well cut it back as it was pointless in the first place.

Latest budget is remarkably Labour-like, and why I won't vote Tory again, total attack on middle-higher income earners. People whinge and moan about being a couple of hundred quid a year worse off, I'm lined up to be £3-4k worse off thanks to this budget!!

Benefits are being cut, but that doesn't mean they weren't too generous in the first place. A hangover of a Labour goverment where inequality rose and the rich got richer also. Major corps also paid diddly squat tax during that administration also.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 2:43 pm

Balance that with record increases in minimum wage (now national living wage), enforced employer pensions and increases in the income tax personal allowance bracket.

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Post by Rowley on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:03 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote: I'm lined up to be £3-4k worse off thanks to this budget!!

I thought they had scrapped the pasty tax?

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:05 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Rowley wrote:
greengoblin wrote:

This is the problem with the left's approach to the debate on immigration. .

Christ on a bike, how far to the right do you have to be to describe Top Hat as left wing!!!

TopHat is a lefty, isn't he? I've read very little from him to defeat the notion that he is a left-winger, he voted for the left-leaning and so-called Conservative party, and he is in favour of the European Union and mass immigration. At a push, you might say he's aligns perfectly down the middle.

Surely this is wumming....

No, no, genuine thought.

Then all I can say is, wow.

With regard to domestic policy, Toppy is far-right and very pro-rich. The Conservative government is probably the most far-right government the UK has had in the last 100 years, inequality is skyrocketing, the rich are getting richer, top rate of tax has been cut, benefits are being cut, the disabled are being singled out and the completely inept and corrupt Chancellor has just let off the world's largest company with a paltry £130m tax bill.

There you have it folks, if you support staying in the EU, for whatever reason, you're a lefty.

All I can say in response is...wow. First of all, the rich/poor gap grew substantially under the 13 years of Labour, more-so than it did under Lady Thatcher, I believe. Growing inequality has been a problem for many governments now, Labour and Conservative.

As for the welfare state being cut, yes this is a problem. But I imagine it would be the same if Miliband was in charge. Neither Labour nor the Conservatives are willing to tackle the deficit or the debt by cutting foreign aid or our inordinate sum to the EU, they would prefer to make the cuts foremost to this country.

The Conservatives under Cameron support the EU, favour mass immigration, have legalised gay marriage, aren't in favour of punishing criminals, and are happy to allow Sharia Law courts to prosper in this country - not sure how that equates to far-rightness.

And yes, I was somewhat hasty with the left-wing/EU correlation - after all, you can't nationalise the railways whilst in the EU!

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:19 pm

Rowley wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote: I'm lined up to be £3-4k worse off thanks to this budget!!

I thought they had scrapped the pasty tax?

drumroll

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Post by greengoblin on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:32 pm

Say anything bad about immigration and all of a sudden you're Hitler. That is how infantile you lot are. You're wasting your time Duty. They don't want debate - just an echo chamber for approved wisdom.


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Post by superflyweight on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:40 pm

greengoblin wrote:Say anything bad about immigration and all of a sudden you're Hitler. That is how infantile you lot are. You're wasting your time Duty. They don't want debate - just an echo chamber for approved wisdom.


I was more drawn towards your rather hysterical suggestion that by voting to stay in the EU I was condemning my mum and wife to a lifetime of being felt up by Johnny Arab.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:43 pm

Tophat has been arguing from an economic standpoint. Think his being a lefty is probably the weirdest accusation since onetwo accused anyone else of being a racist.

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Post by greengoblin on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:47 pm

I'm sure you'll be fine. You probably live in a nice trendy white neighbourhood. And Cologne was probably a mass delusion anyway. Or else the common origins of the attackers was a complete coincidence. And the police and media cover up was perfectly fine and normal. Anyway nothing to see or learn from that. Move on...

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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:49 pm

Laugh Trendy in Scotland!

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Post by greengoblin on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:55 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:Laugh Trendy in Scotland!

Look, I know humour is a good deflection technique when we're being asked to face uncomfortable truths, but we have to face them all the same.

What do you take from Cologne?, from the muslim sex gangs found across England?




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Post by superflyweight on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:56 pm

greengoblin wrote:I'm sure you'll be fine. You probably live in a nice trendy white neighbourhood. And Cologne was probably a mass delusion anyway. Or else the common origins of the attackers  was a complete coincidence. And the police and media cover up was perfectly fine and normal. Anyway nothing to see or learn from that. Move on...

Did you know that jet fuel can't melt steel beams? It also shouldn't be drunk.

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Post by superflyweight on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:57 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:Laugh Trendy in Scotland!

The average age of people in my street is about 76. Everyone is impossibly white though.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 3:58 pm

To be fair to goblin (shudder) there are genuine issues that need to be openly discussed, however head in the sand liberals will always prevent open honest discussion occuring.

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Post by superflyweight on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 4:02 pm

If he wants to debate the issue its probably best not to lead with the ridiculous proposition that a vote to stay in the EU is the equivalent of condemning your wife to sexual abuse.


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Post by greengoblin on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 4:07 pm

superflyweight wrote:If he wants to debate the issue its probably best not to lead with the ridiculous proposition that a vote to stay in the EU is the equivalent of condemning your wife to sexual abuse.  


I never said it's equivalent. But I certainly feel Merkel must bear some responsibility to what happened to those women, and it must be a factor in deciding whether we want open borders as we have currently. Anyway Tophat's changed his tune so I'll leave you lot to get instructions on what the party line is.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 4:22 pm

Have I changed my tune?

Happy to apologise/clarify as needed if someone can quote my contradiction?

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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 02 Feb 2016, 4:42 pm

greengoblin wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Laugh Trendy in Scotland!

Look, I know humour is a good deflection technique when we're being asked to face uncomfortable truths, but we have to face them all the same.

What do you take from Cologne?, from the muslim sex gangs found across England?




Read a book called 'Walking Prey' By Holly Austin Smith. It's only 15 quid or so but you'll be smarter at the end of it. The only reason these are 'muslim sex gangs' is because this is the latest large migration demographic and are easily moved into drugs, prostitution and crime. Interesting that when white gangs do it (for about 70 years in the uk, black gangs for about 40 years ) it was less of a concern to you. I agree that there is a problem and it must be addressed and discussed openly like tophat said, people bury their head in the sand when it's a point that goes against your general belief. That said I don't think ending migration that is of an economic necessity at the moment nor impeding the desperate flight of refugees is a solution.


If you want to end E.U Migration then what you need is to rebuild confidence in the british workforce by creating hundreds of thousands of crafts apprenticeships, blacksmiths, carpenters, other woodworkers etc. Not because theres any particular need for those skills but because we've spent years drumming into kids heads that Uni=Success and Non qualified work = Failure. So for british kids to step into those no/low skilled work is in their psyche a tacit acknowledgement that they've failed. Hence their inability to match migrants hard work ethic or ability. They need tangible evidence that they're not useless. This is Blair and labours fault for trying to get every man and his dog into uni and it needs to be reversed by making the kids love the graft by showing them the results at the end of it WITH the whole process in between. Else they will be like kids who dream to play football, or sing or act then give up in uni/academy/theatre once they see how tough it actually is then spend the rest of their lives pining after riches they haven't earned and balking at anything that involves a bit of backbone. In the meantime, EU migration is a must, else we will lose what few manufacturing, manual labour etc industries we have left.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 9:46 am

Extract from a letter to the Editor, Economist magazine, this week:

The Economist appears to have an idée fixe that immigration is a universal good, regardless of origin and consequences and holds pious hopes that work, time and education will promote integrated communities. Unfortunately, evidence is that even some second- and third-generation immigrants have not integrated successfully: the persistence of FGM; “honour-killing” and forced marriages; the support of terrorism at home and overseas; electoral fraud and malpractice in strongly immigrant areas; all suggest a significant, systemic failure.


Maybe a slightly more eloquent way of putting forward some of the views voiced by people of this thread (and elsewhere).

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 9:51 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:Extract from a letter to the Editor, Economist magazine, this week:

The Economist appears to have an idée fixe that immigration is a universal good, regardless of origin and consequences and holds pious hopes that work, time and education will promote integrated communities. Unfortunately, evidence is that even some second- and third-generation immigrants have not integrated successfully: the persistence of FGM; “honour-killing” and forced marriages; the support of terrorism at home and overseas; electoral fraud and malpractice in strongly immigrant areas; all suggest a significant, systemic failure.


Maybe a slightly more eloquent way of putting forward some of the views voiced by people of this thread (and elsewhere).

And the common link is Islam, which is wholly incompatible with western society, and the evidence has been clear since 1988.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 10:36 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:Extract from a letter to the Editor, Economist magazine, this week:

The Economist appears to have an idée fixe that immigration is a universal good, regardless of origin and consequences and holds pious hopes that work, time and education will promote integrated communities. Unfortunately, evidence is that even some second- and third-generation immigrants have not integrated successfully: the persistence of FGM; “honour-killing” and forced marriages; the support of terrorism at home and overseas; electoral fraud and malpractice in strongly immigrant areas; all suggest a significant, systemic failure.


Maybe a slightly more eloquent way of putting forward some of the views voiced by people of this thread (and elsewhere).

It's difficult for me to disagree with this.

Call me a hand-wringing liberal but ideally for me, British society would be multi-cultural, multi-religious and mulitcoloured. Most importantly though, it would be harmonious. It's sad that some communities seemingly fail to integrate, especially seeing as they're second or third generation and I think that the share of the blame that's not on these communities should be shared between the right-wing media and the government. The fact that it seems to be primarily Muslim communities that are failing to integrate does not mean that Islam is the problem. I have Mulsim friends that are well-integrated into society here in Jersey (you have to understand that we must be 99%+ white here) and while they're devout followers of their religion, they don't let it get in the way of their social responsibilities or their friendships. They're very much a part of the community here despite the racism that they encounter frequently (there's a serious problem with that here).

What is unhelpful is the rhetoric and antagonising attitudes of groups like "Britain First". Just today somebody I know shared a post of theirs on Facebook. They showed a video of their "peaceful protest" at the Islamification of Britain, in which they marched through a Muslim part of a British town shouting and protesting, blatantly looking for a reaction.

I agree that if somebody moves to Britain from another country, the primary responsibility to integrate is on them. They chose to come here, after all. But after moving, often giving up most of what they had back home, how can one really expect somebody to want to integrate when they're made to feel so unwelcome and ostracised? It also doesn't help that these Muslim communities are mostly very poor and have limited opportunities in life when compared to other parts of British society.

Apologies for the slight rant, but I hope I'm coming across as being fairly reasonable here while sticking to my principles. There just needs to be far less anger here, from both sides of the argument.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 10:55 am

You hand-wringing left-liberal idealist....... Cool


Nonesense to blame the media and faceless/inanimate notion of 'right wing' and the goverment despite the fact this problem has stradled decades of supposedly right wing, then left wing, then right wing parliaments.

Britain First are pathetic idiotic nutters.  Have seen posts of theirs on Facebook which aren't even of scenes in the UK as claimed! But equally, I doubt they would exist in much form if not for Muslim street protests (also not peaceful) against UK soldiers and picketing funerals and repatriations etc.  It's the oxygen to the BF fire.

Also, re the 'being poor' point, the Economist showed a few years back that this is based on weak level anaylsis. That if you control for socio-economic factors it is 'traditional British' (to steal that horrible Nick Griffin phrase momentarily) white kids/boys that underperform and underachieve the most versus the national average.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:18 am

Points taken and accepted, though I never said anything about right-wing governments. All governments have to share the blame, including overly liberal ones that just pander to any demands that are made.

Right-wing media are certainly a problem though. How the Sun can get away with publishing a phony survey with a huge headline on the front page and then a tiny apology for that cr@p a couple of days later is beyond me

The point I'm making is that it's boobie-for-tat on both sides. Neither one helps the cause and the sooner hatred from both sides is quelled, the sooner both sides can work together for some kind of solution.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:24 am

Pr4wn wrote:Points taken and accepted, though I never said anything about right-wing governments. All governments have to share the blame, including overly liberal ones that just pander to any demands that are made.

Right-wing media are certainly a problem though. How the Sun can get away with publishing a phony survey with a huge headline on the front page and then a tiny apology for that cr@p a couple of days later is beyond me

The point I'm making is that it's boobie-for-tat on both sides. Neither one helps the cause and the sooner hatred from both sides is quelled, the sooner both sides can work together for some kind of solution.

How was it a phony survey?

Numerous surveys undertaken in this country over the past decade have showed that a disturbing minority of Muslims have views that the vast majority of citizens in this country would find morally reprehensible.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:29 am

And Christians have blown people up in Britain in the past as well. bad people exist in the world under all banners and all colours. No one race or religion is 'evil'.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:31 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:And Christians have blown people up in Britain in the past as well. bad people exist in the world under all banners and all colours. No one race or religion is 'evil'.

I don't imagine any 'race' is evil, I envisage nearly all religion is.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:33 am

Noted re your goverments point, Prawn, was just how I read your sentence. Agree in that case.

Am slightly with Duty on that survey though. Poor from the Sun and they made too much of it, but from memory you could dig into the full detail of the survey pretty easily and it wasn't half as misleading as folk have tried to make out.

I thought the tenet of the questions was pretty clear. Therefore the responses rightly subject to inspection and concern. The way the Sun did it was unhelpful though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:36 am

So anyone not agnostic please leave Britain and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:38 am

How about anyone not willing to live by the laws, customs and values of this country? Irrespective of what doctrine you use to justify your choice of alternative.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:39 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:So anyone not agnostic please leave Britain and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Who on earth has suggested such a thing?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:40 am

Laws only surely. I'm sure I hold vastly different values to quite a few British people.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:41 am

Just a jokey comment that nearly all region is evil.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:41 am

There was also the story that they published re the fake journey through Europe by the ex-soldier.

Papers like the DM and the Sun seem to want to do their level best to stoke up tension rather than engaging in debate. While the actual content of the survey (I was rash to call it phony) may have contained some useful information, the way in which was portrayed by these papers was utterly unhelpful.

But anger sells papers.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:50 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Laws only surely. I'm sure I hold vastly different values to quite a few British people.

Well yes, I suppose 'customs & values' only really applies where they are enforced by law.

Though there are questions about whether incompatibilites, such as treatment of women, should be directly addressed or simply ignored.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 12:25 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Extract from a letter to the Editor, Economist magazine, this week:

The Economist appears to have an idée fixe that immigration is a universal good, regardless of origin and consequences and holds pious hopes that work, time and education will promote integrated communities. Unfortunately, evidence is that even some second- and third-generation immigrants have not integrated successfully: the persistence of FGM; “honour-killing” and forced marriages; the support of terrorism at home and overseas; electoral fraud and malpractice in strongly immigrant areas; all suggest a significant, systemic failure.


Maybe a slightly more eloquent way of putting forward some of the views voiced by people of this thread (and elsewhere).

And the common link is Islam, which is wholly incompatible with western society, and the evidence has been clear since 1988.

Hmm. Eritrea has a 90% FGM rate according to the latest census. Religion in Eritrea is pretty much split down the middle between Christians and Muslims, with slightly more Christians.

Nigeria has a 30% FGM rate according to the latest census. That rate is broken down into 31% for Catholics, 27% for Protestants, and 7% for Muslims.

Islam the common link? Really?

For the sake of balance there are countries where the proportions go the other way, for instance Mali.

My source is wikipedia which may not be wholly reliable, obviously, but it does suggest that to state FGM is not solely an Islam problem...

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 12:56 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Extract from a letter to the Editor, Economist magazine, this week:

The Economist appears to have an idée fixe that immigration is a universal good, regardless of origin and consequences and holds pious hopes that work, time and education will promote integrated communities. Unfortunately, evidence is that even some second- and third-generation immigrants have not integrated successfully: the persistence of FGM; “honour-killing” and forced marriages; the support of terrorism at home and overseas; electoral fraud and malpractice in strongly immigrant areas; all suggest a significant, systemic failure.


Maybe a slightly more eloquent way of putting forward some of the views voiced by people of this thread (and elsewhere).

And the common link is Islam, which is wholly incompatible with western society, and the evidence has been clear since 1988.

Hmm. Eritrea has a 90% FGM rate according to the latest census. Religion in Eritrea is pretty much split down the middle between Christians and Muslims, with slightly more Christians.

Nigeria has a 30% FGM rate according to the latest census. That rate is broken down into 31% for Catholics, 27% for Protestants, and 7% for Muslims.

Islam the common link? Really?

For the sake of balance there are countries where the proportions go the other way, for instance Mali.

My source is wikipedia which may not be wholly reliable, obviously, but it does suggest that to state FGM is not solely an Islam problem...

Oh, I was writing from the perspective of this country, with regards to all the factors listed in the letter - FGM, forced marriages, electoral fraud etc.

FGM isn't a problem confined to Islam, but the links are strongest to that religion. The countries where FGM is most prevalent are nations where Islam is the dominant religion.

Spoiler:
YES is miles ahead of NO in latest EU referendum poll !! - Page 7 300px-FGM_prevalence_0%E2%80%9314_(2014).svg
Spoiler:
YES is miles ahead of NO in latest EU referendum poll !! - Page 7 2000px-FGM_prevalence_15%E2%80%9349_(2014).svg

But I certainly wouldn't deny that FGM is practiced amongst Christian communities on the African continent, as well.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Feb 2016, 10:11 pm

69% of a snap poll think Cameron's EU deal was 'bad' for this country.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-david-cameron-renegotiations-bad-for-britain-uk-leave-europe-a6851086.html

Come on, Prime Minister, no point in drawing it out. Hold the referendum in June, then when the Leave side triumphs, Cameron can resign, and this country can forge out a bright, independent future.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 04 Feb 2016, 9:04 am

Snap polls.

Notoriously reliable.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 04 Feb 2016, 11:45 am

Even as a DC fan, I do think this will be the end of him - hasn't really achieved any significant or game changing, IN/OUT will still be close.

Hoping IN wins, will certainly be the best funded campaign since it's backed by pretty much anyone with a economic interest in this country's continued prosperity.

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Post by superflyweight on Thu 04 Feb 2016, 12:40 pm

Duty281 wrote:69% of a snap poll think Cameron's EU deal was 'bad' for this country.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-david-cameron-renegotiations-bad-for-britain-uk-leave-europe-a6851086.html

Come on, Prime Minister, no point in drawing it out. Hold the referendum in June, then when the Leave side triumphs, Cameron can resign, and this country can forge out a bright, independent future.

What % of people polled actually had a clue what deal had been struck? I'm guessing 4%.

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Post by Guest on Thu 04 Feb 2016, 1:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Extract from a letter to the Editor, Economist magazine, this week:

The Economist appears to have an idée fixe that immigration is a universal good, regardless of origin and consequences and holds pious hopes that work, time and education will promote integrated communities. Unfortunately, evidence is that even some second- and third-generation immigrants have not integrated successfully: the persistence of FGM; “honour-killing” and forced marriages; the support of terrorism at home and overseas; electoral fraud and malpractice in strongly immigrant areas; all suggest a significant, systemic failure.


Maybe a slightly more eloquent way of putting forward some of the views voiced by people of this thread (and elsewhere).

And the common link is Islam, which is wholly incompatible with western society, and the evidence has been clear since 1988.

Hmm. Eritrea has a 90% FGM rate according to the latest census. Religion in Eritrea is pretty much split down the middle between Christians and Muslims, with slightly more Christians.

Nigeria has a 30% FGM rate according to the latest census. That rate is broken down into 31% for Catholics, 27% for Protestants, and 7% for Muslims.

Islam the common link? Really?

For the sake of balance there are countries where the proportions go the other way, for instance Mali.

My source is wikipedia which may not be wholly reliable, obviously, but it does suggest that to state FGM is not solely an Islam problem...

Oh, I was writing from the perspective of this country, with regards to all the factors listed in the letter - FGM, forced marriages, electoral fraud etc.

FGM isn't a problem confined to Islam, but the links are strongest to that religion. The countries where FGM is most prevalent are nations where Islam is the dominant religion.

Spoiler:
YES is miles ahead of NO in latest EU referendum poll !! - Page 7 300px-FGM_prevalence_0%E2%80%9314_(2014).svg
Spoiler:
YES is miles ahead of NO in latest EU referendum poll !! - Page 7 2000px-FGM_prevalence_15%E2%80%9349_(2014).svg

But I certainly wouldn't deny that FGM is practiced amongst Christian communities on the African continent, as well.
Can I just say that using terms like "split down the middle!" when discussing FGM are unseemly

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 04 Feb 2016, 4:15 pm

Hmm.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/04/revealed-tax-credit-data-exposes-limits-of-camerons-emergency-brake

Much as it pains me to agree with Duty and Toppy, one does have to question how this proposed "emergency break" will significantly curb immigration, since none of the stats suggest it will. Not saying I'm against the idea BTW, I actually agree with it to an extent, but Cameron is once again answering a completely different question to the one asked...

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