YES is miles ahead of NO in latest EU referendum poll !!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 2:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Latest ICM poll - Should Britain stay in Europe ????...

Stay in 59%.......................Get out 41% .....

Common sense seems to be prevailing..


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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 9:56 pm

Its also poor odds in a two horse race. It suggests the bookies, in a market where actually you'd expect they serve more people inclined to be wanting out, are still very convinced it'll be a "stay."

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 11:31 pm

Burham was odds on to be Labour leader now he's third favorite, dont take any notice of the bookies on matters such as this yet

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 29 Sep 2015, 7:16 pm

A long way to go, but the side that believe in the great and good of this country are nosing ahead.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/28/eu-referendum-brexit-leads-2/

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 10:10 am

Problem is Duty.....Yes will have more money...Big business...and all the political heavies behind them...

Chuck in scaremongering about another recession and mass unemployment.....People will vote with their heads..

We saw in 2015 and Scotland 2014 that people when unsure back the status quo...

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 10:47 am

Gotta agree with Truss. Farage is just a right-wing Alex Salmond in this respect.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 11:06 am

Capable politician but a bit too much of a charicature of himself.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 11:13 am

But most importantly, backed up by figures that are pure speculation.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 05 Oct 2015, 12:29 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Problem is Duty.....Yes will have more money...Big business...and all the political heavies behind them...

Chuck in scaremongering about another recession and mass unemployment.....People will vote with their heads..

We saw in 2015 and Scotland 2014 that people when unsure back the status quo...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11909924/EU-Referendum-grassroots-out-campaign-wins-business-and-Tory-backing.html

Jolly good, the 'leave' side have got their hands on some treasure.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 1:31 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Problem is Duty.....Yes will have more money...Big business...and all the political heavies behind them...

Chuck in scaremongering about another recession and mass unemployment.....People will vote with their heads..

We saw in 2015 and Scotland 2014 that people when unsure back the status quo...

Throw in the threats as well such as banks threatening to pull out of the country and businesses as well. And here I was thinking we lived in a country devoid of threats to influence decisions. Silly me.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 1:39 pm

It's called politics.......Welcome to the real world..

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 1:49 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's called politics.......Welcome to the real world..

There are other words that fit the bill as well. Wink
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Post by superflyweight on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 1:50 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Problem is Duty.....Yes will have more money...Big business...and all the political heavies behind them...

Chuck in scaremongering about another recession and mass unemployment.....People will vote with their heads..

We saw in 2015 and Scotland 2014 that people when unsure back the status quo...

Throw in the threats as well such as banks threatening to pull out of the country and businesses as well. And here I was thinking we lived in a country devoid of threats to influence decisions. Silly me.

It's not a threat if the banks/businesses honestly have to consider leaving Scotland on independence. The lack of economic plan and failure to identify a clear currency solution as well as a clear path to membership of the EU would mean that it would have been negligent for certain business not to have a clear contingency plan.

In the main, you're alluding to the actions of companies who are registered on the stock exchange and there are very clear and stringent rules on how they communicate with their shareholders and with the public at large. They can't just make idle threats about key aspects of their business just to exert some political pressure.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 1:59 pm

superflyweight wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Problem is Duty.....Yes will have more money...Big business...and all the political heavies behind them...

Chuck in scaremongering about another recession and mass unemployment.....People will vote with their heads..

We saw in 2015 and Scotland 2014 that people when unsure back the status quo...

Throw in the threats as well such as banks threatening to pull out of the country and businesses as well. And here I was thinking we lived in a country devoid of threats to influence decisions. Silly me.

It's not a threat if the banks/businesses honestly have to consider leaving Scotland on independence.  The lack of economic plan and failure to identify a clear currency solution as well as a clear path to membership of the EU would mean that it would have been negligent for certain business not to have a clear contingency plan.  

In the main, you're alluding to the actions of companies who are registered on the stock exchange and there are very clear and stringent rules on how they communicate with their shareholders and with the public at large.  They can't just make idle threats about key aspects of their business just to exert some political pressure.  

I was talking about the banks threats in the here and now in general. I take it then that the banks have no faith in Britain as a whole then if they are threatening to pull out? Do they have the same lack of faith they have in the UK as they had in Scotland then?
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Post by superflyweight on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 2:22 pm

You'd have to aske them but we're really looking at two different scenarios.

An independent Scotland would have meant that large financial services organisations would have been based in a country that had become separate from the country in which the majority of its customers resided and with no clear idea on what the currency would be or even if there would be a central bank.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 2:29 pm

2008-10 is what scared the sh*t out of the Banks w.r.t. Scottish independence.

The major f-ups were Scottish banks (RBS and HBOS [as part of LBG]) and it was the UK goverment that had to come in and support them/bail them out so that they wouldn't collapse.

If Scotland had been independent at that point the major fear is that a Scottish government/central Bank wouldn't have had the power or financial strength to do the same.

Hence they talked about having to move HQs and domiciled status south of the border (at the cost of thousands of Scottish jobs).

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 2:30 pm

superflyweight wrote:You'd have to aske them but we're really looking at two different scenarios.  

An independent Scotland would have meant that large financial services organisations would have been based in a country that had become separate from the country in which the majority of its customers resided and with no clear idea on what the currency would be or even if there would be a central bank.    

I don't think any questions need be asked though. It is a clear lack of confidence in the UK outside the EU.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 2:37 pm

I don't think there's a lack of confidence, or any evidence of it, businesses are just faced by standard old cost/benefit analysis - is it more or less costly to be out versus in.

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Post by greengoblin on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 6:36 pm

The EU vote is quite simple. Do you want Britain to be a sovereign nation? It should be an affront to every patriot that laws for us are made in the EU.

Cameron is the self proclaimed 'heir to blair'. Absolutely risible today saying mass immigration is bad. He's had 5 years ffs and it's even higher than it was under Labour. All he wants from the EU is benefit curbs, which simply plays on ignorant ideas about migrants on benefits. Actually most EU migrants do work, the problem is they depress wages, as well as social cohesion.
Also, bigger problem is third world immigration, which has been airbrushed from the conversation because it's racist. They do have a problem with unemployment, and much worse problems. How much more civilised this country would be if we hadn't embarked on mass immigration, completely without the people's consent I might add.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 7:30 pm

I'll take a punt and say...Peter Hitchens?

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Post by greengoblin on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 7:36 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'll take a punt and say...Peter Hitchens?

lol, yes Peter Hitchens without the religious bullcrap. What are your politics?

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 7:50 pm

greengoblin wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I'll take a punt and say...Peter Hitchens?

lol, yes Peter Hitchens without the religious bullcrap. What are your politics?

Well I voted UKIP in 2014 and 2015.

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Post by greengoblin on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 8:24 pm

Duty281 wrote:
greengoblin wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I'll take a punt and say...Peter Hitchens?

lol, yes Peter Hitchens without the religious bullcrap. What are your politics?

Well I voted UKIP in 2014 and 2015.

So did I. Did you agree with my post (sounded like maybe you didn't?)

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 8:50 pm

I largely agree, yes.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 10:32 pm

It's not as simple as wanting to be a sovereign state...

It's about prosperity, jobs and lives....

People are more important than macho posturing..

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 06 Oct 2015, 11:17 pm

Indeed it is about all of those things.

There are around 900,000 NEETs in this country (young people, 16-24, not in education, employment or training) - resultant largely because of the irresponsible open borders within the European Union. Further to that, skilled migrants (such as doctors or teachers) from outside the EU are actually being turned away in order to accommodate mostly unskilled migrants within the EU - a very poor state of affairs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33101336

The UK's economy is greatly hindered by being in the European Union. Not only does our country have to give an inordinate sum for a membership fee, but it also lacks the ability to conduct its own trade deals - both things are greatly harmful to our economy.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 9:08 am

NEET incidence is even greater on the continent though, so not sure that supports your point.

In short, we'd be fooked without immigration.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 1:27 pm

Yes, immigration is a benefit to our economy, and country as a whole, and that is why we to need follow UKIP's policy on immigration which will allow us to maximise and harness those benefits. As opposed to the present, mostly uncontrolled system we have, which means our country is turning away skilled migrants in favour of unskilled ones.

The only way we can do this, of course, is by leaving the European Union.

There are 895,000 Eastern Europeans working in the UK, mostly unskilled. It is estimated that 5.56% of the UK workforce are comprised of EU migrants.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30243472
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/18/new-wave-of-east-europeans-come-to-uk-for-work

Are these not jobs that a good quantity of our 900,000 NEETs could be doing?

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 1:40 pm

And? A lot of them do a bloody good job. They also pay tax and spend some/all of their earnings, therefore they are contributing to the economy on a national and local level.

Or should they all be banned so we can go back to bent chavs ripping off old grannies (and anyone else they can convince) with over-priced shoddy work??

The Pole that did my new boiler and bathroom was utterly brilliant, better than any Brit contractor I've worked with, and the guy that just did my mate's amazing loft conversion/extension was EE and again did a great job at fair cost.

All this BS about EE's annoys me when we've a country full of lazy feckless job-shy 'British' bums that wouldn't be doing the jobs EE's are doing anyway.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 1:56 pm

And? And this country has an over-saturated unskilled labour market which is compressing wages. Having further uncontrolled immigration from EU nation states will only exacerbate this problem, not to mention the further pressures that result on housing, the health service and school places.

Lazy discrimination against British folk won't alter that.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 2:18 pm

One wonders If some of these Poles have the right certificates to be carrying out some of this work on the cheap...

I imagine Toppy had it done on the cheap....They tend to find ways of undercutting British contractors..

Wouldn't have a Pole working on my house I've heard too many horror stories !!.....Though some of the work cleaners have been polish and they are good sorts..

Don't like this feckless job shy British bums crap either.....Ignorant Tory bollox........

Plenty of good sorts like Wheelie looking for work..

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 3:35 pm

Duty281 wrote:And? And this country has an over-saturated unskilled labour market which is compressing wages. Having further uncontrolled immigration from EU nation states will only exacerbate this problem, not to mention the further pressures that result on housing, the health service and school places.

Lazy discrimination against British folk won't alter that.

It isn't discrimination if some people would rather sit on their backsides and not work! What we're over-saturated in is BUMS!!

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 3:41 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:One wonders If some of these Poles have the right certificates to be carrying out some of this work on the cheap...

I imagine Toppy had it done on the cheap....They tend to find ways of undercutting British contractors..

Wouldn't have a Pole working on my house I've heard too many horror stories !!.....Though some of the work cleaners have been polish and they are good sorts..

Don't like this feckless job shy British bums crap either.....Ignorant Tory bollox........

Plenty of good sorts like Wheelie looking for work..

UK registered and tax paying company with all the relevant certs in places doing work in line with building regs. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Also, you're the one guilty of (quasi-racist bigoted) generalisations if anything. Had to get plumbling quotes for something recently. Rates quoted between £85 and £115 per hour for Labour (mix Brits & nons). Ended up finding a local guy at £60 per hour.

Their are rip offs all over the place, competition is a positive thing in a well running market (though I'd expect an ignorant comment back from you akin to markets & competition being more 'ignorant Tory bollox').

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 4:30 pm

There are rip offs..

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 2:49 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:And? And this country has an over-saturated unskilled labour market which is compressing wages. Having further uncontrolled immigration from EU nation states will only exacerbate this problem, not to mention the further pressures that result on housing, the health service and school places.

Lazy discrimination against British folk won't alter that.

It isn't discrimination if some people would rather sit on their backsides and not work! What we're over-saturated in is BUMS!!

I agree.

In my line of work (on-train catering) I saw lots of Poles and Brits try their hand at the job and guess what? The Poles were the ones who, to a greater degree, stuck at it and many have gone on to earn promotion to jobs such as conductors, dispatch, drivers and ticket examiners. A greater degree of Brits either walked after weeks or bad attitude of lack of appetite for work saw a fair few walk or be sacked.
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Post by Duty281 on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 4:04 pm

Yay, a small sample of folk can be used to accurately judge 900,000 people!

The wonders and glories of the modern age.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 4:08 pm

Duty281 wrote:Yay, a small sample of folk can be used to accurately judge 900,000 people!

The wonders and glories of the modern age.

Well the pattern was there and the time I speak of was spread over about ten years. I worked closely with them and the British opinion was they were above that kind of labour and many walked whilst Poles and other nationalities could stick it out and gain promotion. Sure it is only in one area but my observations are one accounting for around 100 staff members spread over 10 years.
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Post by ShahenshahG on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 4:18 pm

It's only partially true I think. It's an inevitable side effect of gentrification. Plus a typically arrogant mindset foisted onto the kids by putting down manual labour or other low skilled jobs in an effort to motivate them onto bigger things. Blairs effort to get everyone into to university is going to be damaging for years to come. This probably did more to drive down middle class wages than any immigration ever could. The low skilled labour market isn't populated by brits for a reason and if it does in the next few years then you'll see more resentment borne from the psychological scars coming from what equates to failure according to the parents of some of them. Big problems to which neither side is offering any solution.

Best thing to do is offer genuine apprenticeships. Not these cop outs to fiddle with the the unemployment figures. But proper apprenticeships with carpenters engineers and other things where the progress is visible and measurable to rebuild confidence in a stressed and underpaid work force.

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Post by greengoblin on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 9:26 pm

The in campaign is very strange- an unlikely alliance of big business and the far left. Big business who want cheap labour, and the far left who hate the idea of borders.

Rare to get a genuine socialist nowadays that recognises the ills of mass immigration. All the unions have been taken over by politically correct droids.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 10:09 pm

All this far left crap....

Just stop it....

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 12 Oct 2015, 10:23 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:And? And this country has an over-saturated unskilled labour market which is compressing wages. Having further uncontrolled immigration from EU nation states will only exacerbate this problem, not to mention the further pressures that result on housing, the health service and school places.

Lazy discrimination against British folk won't alter that.

It isn't discrimination if some people would rather sit on their backsides and not work! What we're over-saturated in is BUMS!!

I agree.

In my line of work (on-train catering) I saw lots of Poles and Brits try their hand at the job and guess what? The Poles were the ones who, to a greater degree, stuck at it and many have gone on to earn promotion to jobs such as conductors, dispatch, drivers and ticket examiners. A greater degree of Brits either walked after weeks or bad attitude of lack of appetite for work saw a fair few walk or be sacked.

No matter how many stories like this there are, certain sectors of society will always refuse to acknowledge it.

Given they were employed by train companies, all those folk will have also be taxed at the full rate applicable, paying more tax upon promotion.

Don't see what's not to like/respect about all that. Brits just have a natural tendency to blame others before they blame themselves.....

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 12 Oct 2015, 10:24 am

ShahenshahG wrote:It's only partially true I think. It's an inevitable side effect of gentrification. Plus a typically arrogant mindset foisted onto the kids by putting down manual labour or other low skilled jobs in an effort to motivate them onto bigger things. Blairs effort to get everyone into to university is going to be damaging for years to come. This probably did more to drive down middle class wages than any immigration ever could. The low skilled labour market isn't populated by brits for a reason and if it does in the next few years then you'll see more resentment borne from the psychological scars coming from what equates to failure according to the parents of some of them.  Big problems to which neither side is offering any solution.

Best thing to do is offer genuine apprenticeships. Not these cop outs to fiddle with the the unemployment figures. But proper apprenticeships with carpenters engineers and other things where the progress is visible and measurable to rebuild confidence in a stressed and underpaid work force.

100% agree.
>
>
I hope that makes you feel dirty... raspberry

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon 12 Oct 2015, 1:11 pm

Ha! Makes me feel warm and tingly inside. Then I emptied my bowels.


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Post by Duty281 on Thu 17 Dec 2015, 10:33 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12054924/More-Britons-want-to-leave-the-EU-than-stay.html

Hurrah, the leave side is winning by 47%-38%.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 17 Dec 2015, 10:46 am

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

"Yesterday there were two EU referendum polls showing the race essentially neck-and-neck. Today there are two more EU referendum polls, but both of these have REMAIN with a solid looking twenty-plus point lead. ComRes for OpenEurope have topline EU voting intention figures of REMAIN 56%, LEAVE 35% (tabs are here). Ipsos MORI for the Standard have topline figures of REMAIN 58%, LEAVE 32% (full tabs are here)"

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 17 Dec 2015, 10:48 am

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/eu-referendum

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 23 Dec 2015, 4:57 pm

Duty281 wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12054924/More-Britons-want-to-leave-the-EU-than-stay.html

Hurrah, the leave side is winning by 47%-38%.

Cat got your tongue, Duty??

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 23 Dec 2015, 5:20 pm

Not at all, my darling, I am hugely optimistic about the prospect of this country regaining so much that it has lost over the last few decades.

The 'in' side have already peaked. There will be no chance of taking back parliamentary sovereignty, no chance of regaining the supremacy of our legal system, no chance of restoring control of our fishing waters and, most crucially of all, no chance of controlling our borders. Will the majority really wish to remain with such a union?

Most hurtfully of all this year, we have had to witness our democratically-elected Prime Minister go grovelling to his un-elected master, just so he may attempt to get a 'fair deal' for his native land.

What feeble-minded 'democracy' this is. What a feeble-minded 'leader' we have.

The 'in' side may spend more, may be favoured by the media, and may unleash more propaganda, but England will once again be England, an everlasting animal stretching into the future and the past.

It was always ever thus. And the tyranny of the European Union shall be defeated. Britannia always triumphs over tyranny.

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Post by superflyweight on Wed 30 Dec 2015, 1:30 pm

Duty281 wrote:Not at all, my darling, I am hugely optimistic about the prospect of this country regaining so much that it has lost over the last few decades.

The 'in' side have already peaked. There will be no chance of taking back parliamentary sovereignty, no chance of regaining the supremacy of our legal system, no chance of restoring control of our fishing waters and, most crucially of all, no chance of controlling our borders. Will the majority really wish to remain with such a union?

Most hurtfully of all this year, we have had to witness our democratically-elected Prime Minister go grovelling to his un-elected master, just so he may attempt to get a 'fair deal' for his native land.

What feeble-minded 'democracy' this is. What a feeble-minded 'leader' we have.

The 'in' side may spend more, may be favoured by the media, and may unleash more propaganda, but England will once again be England, an everlasting animal stretching into the future and the past.

It was always ever thus. And the tyranny of the European Union shall be defeated. Britannia always triumphs over tyranny.

[Coughs]. Ahem.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Wed 30 Dec 2015, 1:38 pm

In other words a turkey votes for christmas

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 30 Dec 2015, 2:14 pm

superflyweight wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Not at all, my darling, I am hugely optimistic about the prospect of this country regaining so much that it has lost over the last few decades.

The 'in' side have already peaked. There will be no chance of taking back parliamentary sovereignty, no chance of regaining the supremacy of our legal system, no chance of restoring control of our fishing waters and, most crucially of all, no chance of controlling our borders. Will the majority really wish to remain with such a union?

Most hurtfully of all this year, we have had to witness our democratically-elected Prime Minister go grovelling to his un-elected master, just so he may attempt to get a 'fair deal' for his native land.

What feeble-minded 'democracy' this is. What a feeble-minded 'leader' we have.

The 'in' side may spend more, may be favoured by the media, and may unleash more propaganda, but England will once again be England, an everlasting animal stretching into the future and the past.

It was always ever thus. And the tyranny of the European Union shall be defeated. Britannia always triumphs over tyranny.

[Coughs].  Ahem.  

Oh alright, the United Kingdom will once again be the United Kingdom.

I blame George Orwell for this slight mishap.

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