Tour de France 2015 Thread

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Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Azabache on Wed 01 Jul 2015, 3:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

1st - A. Contador      fully "prepared", just too good and combative on the climbs, TT superb
2nd - C. Froome        wonderful tryer, no disgrace
3rd - N. Quintana      just found wanting
4th - V. Nibali           not quite right

But could all pass to a new generation!

Cavendish wins only a couple of stages (beaten by a couple of beasts always)

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by dummy_half on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 12:58 pm

And so the real tour starts today...

Well, sort of - not a huge day but a slightly lumpy day for the first 145km followed by the first true mountain of the race - looks to climb about 1300m (from 300 to 1600m) in about 20km.

Bastille Day, so likely a French-dominated break-away and perhaps even them being allowed to stay away Could be a day for Voekler or Rolland - guys who can climb but who are far enough behind and (in Rolland's case) don't have the consistency to keep up any sort of GC challenge.

Have my doubts about Nibali - has lost a few seconds on the two Muurs and was hanging a bit in the TTT.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Lowlandbrit on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 1:26 pm

LiamB wrote:what this news of astana in some drug storm, hardly surprising from that team.
In a possible explanation of his low cortisol values, Boom is now too sick to continue.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by seanmichaels on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 2:31 pm

There is no way Nibali's win last year was clean.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Azabache on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 2:47 pm

Regular contributers-remember the golden rule-don't respond to itinerant WUMs or trolls.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by seanmichaels on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 2:59 pm

Azabache wrote:Regular contributers-remember the golden rule-don't respond to itinerant WUMs or trolls.

Only 3 allowed on the cycling thread?

I am not an expert, merely a cycling enthusiast for 4 or 5 years but I know enough to realise a mountain specialist doesn't destroy the likes of Cancellera on a flat cobbled stage.

Given that bizarre result, his form recently, and the record of the Astana team in the last 12 months I think you are slightly ignorant suggesting I am a WUM.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by dummy_half on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 3:11 pm

sean

You might want to edit your first post otherwise the mods are likely to pull it for being potentially libellous. You can express doubts and opinions, but a categorical statement like that could get the board into trouble - it's part of the reason there is no dedicated athletics board any more.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by dummy_half on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 3:20 pm

Anyway, back to the racing. Surprised only 2 in the break today, and that pretty much nullified their chance of the stage win, even though Fedrigo has a bit of previous winning stages like this.

Might see an attack from the 2nd tier climbers on the lower slopes, but it will be tough to pull that off if Sky ride a high tempo as they usually do. Interesting that Porte and Koenig have both conceded huge time in week 1 so have no GC aspirations of their own to consider (iirc, Koenig was top 10 last year). Generally though, looks like by the end of today we will now a lot more about the condition of the GC guys.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Lowlandbrit on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 3:46 pm

Always a bit of a lottery the day after a rest day, and first day of 'proper' climbing. This is an absolute massacre though.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Guest on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 3:50 pm

Game over, Froome has destroyed them

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by dummy_half on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 4:33 pm

John wrote:Game over, Froome has destroyed them

Certainly looks that way - I thought Nibali looked a bit off form the other day, which was confirmed today.

Almost 3 minutes on the field after one mountain - can now afford to just ride defensively for the rest of the Tour, or can go out and drive a stake through the heart of everyone else. Just as long as he hasn't used up too much energy too soon.

Excellent ride from Adam Yates - finishing 7th on the stage.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Guest on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 4:41 pm

Was looking forward to a competitive tour, but this just confirms its all but over, barring an injury or crash. Nobody touches froome outright & the fact Porte comes second just emphasises how comfortable his advantage is. He was playing mind games up that climb, looked like he was struggling, then blew them away. 

Can see Rolland getting a stage win this week, looks the best of the French climbers.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 5:14 pm

Yep Nibali clearly off form, and nobody ever does the Giro-Tour double like Contador is trying - and Quintana looks a shell of what he was a few years ago. 

Froome barring anything major should waltz it.

Awful day for the French too - Pinot is a huge disappointment
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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Lowlandbrit on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:38 pm

Olly wrote:Awful day for the French too - Pinot is a huge disappointment
Pinot has looked awful all week, think the pressure might have got to him. Gallopin is holding up well though.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by dummy_half on Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:53 pm

Well, after yesterday's fireworks, I'm expecting less drama today - while the stage is a genuine mountain day, there is a long descent from the Tourmalet followed by a relatively short (6km) climb to the finish on a 3rd cat summit. Doesn't look like a stage where big time gaps are likely, as even if riders get into difficulty on the Tourmalet, the descent gives a chance for recovery.

Also, tomorrow is a more seriously big day, finishing at Plateau de Beille after a couple of Cat 1 climbs. I think Froome and the GC contenders will mainly keep their powder dry for this one, so today could be a day for a break to be successful.

Probably looking at a solid all-rounder or one of the second tier climbers to take the stage honours - could suit someone like Dan Martin or one of the Yates brothers (I suspect Simon, as Adam could start to mount a challenge to Quintana's white jersey if he gets in a successful break).

Of course, having said that, what's going to happen is Froome will destroy them again...

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Guest on Wed 15 Jul 2015, 3:04 pm

Majka makes a move, these two days have killed people, Rui Costa & Taaramae & two others have abandoned. Also, Bardet looks like he's about to quit.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by dummy_half on Wed 15 Jul 2015, 4:53 pm

Ahh, so close with my Dan Martin suggestion. Perhaps if he'd made the break initially rather than having to bridge the gap, he'd have held Majka on the Tourmalet.

About as easy a day as Sky could have hoped for - some work for Porte, but not much time spent really eyeballs out. Should leave them reasonably fresh for tomorrow, which is a brutal mountain day.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by dummy_half on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 1:56 pm

And so on to the big Pyrrenean day. Big early break up the road, being worn down by the big climbs. Interesting that Fuglsang, Bardet, Purito Rodriguez and Kwiatkowski are all up there - none have any GC aspirations but will be looking for a stage win. Don't think today is likely to be their day though, as surely the likes of Contador and Quintana have to look to break Froome and Sky's hold on the race.

The summit of the penultimate mountain is quite a long way from the finish (i.e. long descent and then about 10km in the valley before the last climb), so it is likely only to see some 'softening up' attacks rather than anyone going for a long one. Likely though that someone will try to go from very close to the base of Plateau de Beille - the time gaps are so big that the guys a bit further away on the GC will have to try to isolate Froome within the first 5 km of the final climb.

Anyway, I expect Froome either to win the stage or to be on the wheel of a stage winner who is further down the GC.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Big on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:09 pm

With a 10 minute lead at the base of Plateau de Beille I'm thinking a breakaway rider will probably make it. Maybe Fuglsang - if getting something for the team, and potentially becoming their main man going forward can give him that extra bit of motivation.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by whocares on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:00 pm

am disapointed that Quintana and Contador didnt try harder in that climb. Froome didnt seem at his best and geraint thomas managed to keep him during the last kms of that stage almost on his own.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Guest on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 9:56 pm

Disappointed, I think you will find that is their best attempts at destabilising Froome & his Porte/Thomas protection. Contador attacked & then looked leggy just in front of them, the explosion attacking isn't in him or Quintana. Let's face it, they look devoid of any ideas & Froome/Sky can just control this with ease until the end. Today was a nothing stage in the end, I doubt the Alps will provide any different outcome to what we've seen already.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 10:47 pm

Contador has nothing left now because it's nye on impossible to be in good shape at the end of the Tour after doing the Giro properly...

No idea what's up with Quintana tho - just off form I guess
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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jul 2015, 4:33 pm

Cracking uphill finish there by Van Avermaet. Sagan has now finished second on four occassions this tour.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Lowlandbrit on Fri 17 Jul 2015, 4:42 pm

John wrote:Cracking uphill finish there by Van Avermaet. Sagan has now finished second on four occassions this tour.
Van Avermaet and Sagan are both notorious for nearly winning things, so it was interesting watching to see which one would stuff it up when they couldn't both lose.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Guest on Sat 18 Jul 2015, 5:59 pm

Cummings looked like he had a rocket behind him at the finale.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Lowlandbrit on Sat 18 Jul 2015, 6:07 pm

French lads are going to be in some trouble after managing to lose that.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by whocares on Sat 18 Jul 2015, 6:46 pm

Lowlandbrit wrote:French lads are going to be in some trouble after managing to lose that.

Dumb and Dumber. Not sure how they managed to forget Cummins who happens to be an ex Track olympic medal holder as well. Fair play to him, top finish.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Lowlandbrit on Sat 18 Jul 2015, 6:54 pm

And the award for most baffling story of the day goes to:
https://twitter.com/inrng/status/622437018715430913

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 18 Jul 2015, 8:05 pm

So for some reason team sky seem to have been given the cold shoulder by the French public - apparently everyone who wins in cycling is a doper because guys were 20 years ago
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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by LuvSports! on Sun 19 Jul 2015, 10:09 pm

I assume most the people here believe Sky are clean>

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Josiah Maiestas on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 11:10 am

Team Sky should really provide the Strava data - it won't shut people up completely but it would show them in a better light. It's like they are scared!
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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by whocares on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 1:50 pm

Olly wrote:So for some reason team sky seem to have been given the cold shoulder by the French public - apparently everyone who wins in cycling is a doper because guys were 20 years ago

French public are (as other publics) influenced by some local medias who spend a lot of (too much) time reporting on Froome power output etc (like when he developed 1000 Watts during a few seconds getting rid of Nibali and Quintana last week).
that said the lack of transparency of Sky and the fact that they are not excatly loved by other teams (being allegedly a bit arrogant when controlling the pace of some stages) does not help either. It's no excuse for throwing urine at Froome or insulting Sky cyclists and I believe they deserve way more respect.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Lowlandbrit on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 4:13 pm

Any bookies taking bets on second place finishes must be taking a beating.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Guest on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 4:13 pm

Sagan is going to come second again

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by dummy_half on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 11:16 am

Sagan has done a brilliant job over the last few stages to cement the green jersey. Pity that the stage win hasn't come his way - only really the day GVA beat him that was a bad loss.

WTF was Barguil doing on the descent? Had he not used Thomas as a brake, he'd have been head first into that telegraph pole at a much higher speed than GT. Anyway, no real harm done in that Thomas's GC position is only a consequence of the good work done in support of Froome.

Good point about the media and the hypocrisy of fans - Virenque is still very popular in France despite his known doping past, while Anglophone riders can always expect a much more hostile reaction.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by whocares on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 2:48 pm

SKy has released some performance data on Froome to calm down local media

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/21/team-sky-chris-froome-performance-data-stage-10

if I had my way, ex convicted cheats (from Armstrong to Virenque but also including milder doping affairs like Jalabert, S kelly etc) should be removed from the cycling media circus. It is appaling thta someone like Rasmussen is now a pundit and doesnt even feel any remorse for having cheated. how can you improve things is such characters are around.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 4:54 pm

LuvSports! wrote:I assume most the people here believe Sky are clean>

Yes I do believe Sky are clean - for a multitude of reasons (the main one being they haven't been proven to be doping - and are cooperating fully even suggested tougher measures!) - I also think you have to consider the sponsor here. Would Sky who have pushed and pushed cycling really stand for a team of dopers? I don't think so
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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Lowlandbrit on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 6:37 pm

I think one problem is that the way Froome and Sky dominate in the mountains reminds a lot of people of Armstrong and his teams. Another issue is that they basically came in with shedloads of cash, off the back of massive track funding, and go around saying the rest are amateuristic idiots for not doing what they do.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 6:38 pm

Lowlandbrit wrote:I think one problem is that the way Froome and Sky dominate in the mountains reminds a lot of people of Armstrong and his teams. Another issue is that they basically came in with shedloads of cash, off the back of massive track funding, and go around saying the rest are amateuristic idiots for not doing what they do.

Well this is the problem - they have all the money and thus media aren't so likely to like them.

They dominate the mountains because of the ridiculous team they have - I mean Konig finished top 10 last year and he isn't even the third best climber on this team. It's ridiculous strength in depth
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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by LuvSports! on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 8:30 pm

I look at who they hired and fired, Froome's rise and others and that leads me to think what I do.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 8:43 pm

Froome's rise always makes me chuckle. It's almost like every superstar ever always comes in from a young age and blows it up....and to counter that every young star always goes onto be great....remember when Boasson Hagen was being touted as the next Mercx....
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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by LuvSports! on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 9:01 pm

It's LA-esque his rise, except Froome wasn't as talented.
So who they hired and fired doesn't bother you?

He says he has done everything he can to quash the doubters.
How about releasing power data pre '11? SImple.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 9:17 pm

Were there any significant abnormalities his bio passport would have shown it up, were he French or Spanish (many known dopers including Contador) then I doubt you'd be batting an eyelid.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 9:25 pm

It's showing a real lack of understanding to suggest Froome came from nowhere anyway, doping doesn't turn an average cyclist into a great one in the first place, the biggest misconception out there. Rightly or wrongly Armstrong was a special athlete with or without doping, the doping made him marginally better, we're not talking great big leaps in performance here.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 9:47 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's showing a real lack of understanding to suggest Froome came from nowhere anyway, doping doesn't turn an average cyclist into a great one in the first place, the biggest misconception out there. Rightly or wrongly Armstrong was a special athlete with or without doping, the doping made him marginally better, we're not talking great big leaps in performance here.

This is the point Armstrong did it to beat out other dopers. Froome is just better than the others, who may I also add don't dope because the sport is actually beginning to clean up quiet well.

Quite frankly it'd be stupid to dope in this day and age in cycling with all the testing and hoops they go through.
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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by LuvSports! on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 11:01 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Were there any significant abnormalities his bio passport would have shown it up, were he French or Spanish (many known dopers including Contador) then I doubt you'd be batting an eyelid.

Bernard Kohl said the biopassport was a joke in '07 and said it was easy to evade with microdosing.

From two posts I have made, you draw that completely wrong conclusion? Should I make impetuous conclusions about the little I know about you?

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 11:05 pm

I doubt it is a wrong conclusion, I tend not to give a toss what former dopers have to say especially one as envious of talent as Kohl is, unable to accept that he was never anything and was never going to be anything even when doping.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by LuvSports! on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 11:08 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's showing a real lack of understanding to suggest Froome came from nowhere anyway, doping doesn't turn an average cyclist into a great one in the first place, the biggest misconception out there. Rightly or wrongly Armstrong was a special athlete with or without doping, the doping made him marginally better, we're not talking great big leaps in performance here.

He almost got chucked by Sky in '11. Remember the Giro '10 mountain bike incident. 
What was his best tour result before then? In the 30's at the Giro in '09. 
The illness reports are inconsistent and tenebrous in terms of dates, treatments, diagnosis etc. 
They are all supremely talented but some respond better to peds than others.

Some say drugs caused Lance's cancer but to suggest it made a guy who couldn't finish the tdf to winning it 7 times in a row, is "marginal" - is laughable. 
I think you are showing a real lack of understanding here.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by LuvSports! on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 11:12 pm

Olly wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's showing a real lack of understanding to suggest Froome came from nowhere anyway, doping doesn't turn an average cyclist into a great one in the first place, the biggest misconception out there. Rightly or wrongly Armstrong was a special athlete with or without doping, the doping made him marginally better, we're not talking great big leaps in performance here.

This is the point Armstrong did it to beat out other dopers. Froome is just better than the others, who may I also add don't dope because the sport is actually beginning to clean up quiet well.

Quite frankly it'd be stupid to dope in this day and age in cycling with all the testing and hoops they go through.

I 100% disagree with this.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 11:13 pm

I do love it when people try googling a few facts to try and make out they have an understanding of doping, I always forget that doping turned Armstrong from a nobody into superman.

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Re: Tour de France 2015 Thread

Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 11:13 pm

Froome is as clean as a whistle, until proven he's not. Simple as.

Any suggestions on 2moro's stage, I feel like a bet

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