London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

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London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 8:49 am

London Welsh chairman Bleddyn Phillips says the club would be open to quitting the English game to join the Pro12. I thought this was now put to bed, but now the head honcho at London Welsh is telling people he would like to see it happen, do you agree with what he has to say ? Especially about the travelling to London rather than further afield, an obvious dig at the Italians, he also says "There would be a degree of support behind the possibility." I don't think there would be much of a chance of LW joining the Pro12, I just think he is trying to cause a stir because of this ring fenced Aviva idea, I would rather see a North Wales region in the Pro12 before London Welsh. Here take a read:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/33347545

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 9:03 am

No disrespect, but London Welsh are not good enough for the Jeff, and that was shown pretty clearly this last season. So it is pretty insulting to the Italians (and the rest of us) that they think they would be good enough to bring something to the table in the Pro12. As a novelty I can see they would be an interesting away trip, but is London really as appealing as a weekend away in Italy? Not really. So again I can't see what they would really bring to the table.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 9:06 am

Oh and I totally agree I would rather see an actual Welsh team in the Pro12 than an English side in Welsh clothing. London Welsh may have history, but that is just it history. Getting RGC1404 into the Pro12 is the future.

Another reason to avoid London Welsh at all costs is that they always seem to bring their lawyers with them. They had the issues with getting promoted the first time (and I was behind them), and then the passport scandal, and recently they have had whinges about funding etc. I think that the Pro12 could real do without their negative press too.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 9:20 am

Yes I agree with the comments above. The funding for the Championship clubs needs to be increased & along with the 'ring fencing' of the Jeff there are a lot of issues that need to be resolved in the, hopefully, near future.
I'm glad they have returned to Old Deer Park which is their proper home and great venue.
Their cause isn't helped in that they have no academy.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Notch on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 9:31 am

They wouldn't be any worse than Zebre, but I can't see anything to suggest they would be much better. Going to London once or twice might be a nice away trip but thats about it.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 9:34 am

Notch, going on Challenge Cup results I think they are worse than Zebre, as Zebre won twice and London Welsh lost all their games.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 9:47 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote: The funding for the Championship clubs needs to be increased & along with the 'ring fencing' .

They'll get a load of dosh from PRL and posisbly RFU once it's ringfenced.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by offload on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 10:22 am

The saga with London Welsh in recent years smacks of a club with ambition but no real strategy or understanding of how to execute. Some of the decisions have shown a real lack of judgement. The clubs "roots" didn't seem too important when moving to Oxford and chasing the shinny new penny that was top flight English rugby. Now apparently, the Welsh tradition could make LW attractive to the celtic teams?

I wonder how the RFU will feel about writing a cheque to a team whose Chairman is so indifferent about where his club plays.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 10:32 am

The Chairman is a rather large player in the law business. I'd wager he knows his legal onions.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by offload on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 10:36 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:The Chairman is a rather large player in the law business. I'd wager he knows his legal onions.

Yes - but knowing your legal onions doesn't mean you always make good decisions.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Guest on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 10:38 am

I don't think many would agree with what Phillips suspects is true. London Welsh are an English side that couldn't cut it in the Aviva, and now with this possible ring fencing won't get the chance to do so for at least a few years, if ever.
I don't want London Welsh in the PRO12, and I would much prefer Zebre and Treviso who are better teams and have much more potential to really compete in the league than London Welsh.

Nothing to get excited about though. It's not going to happen  Very Happy

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 10:56 am

I suppose it's a novelty to see a "Welsh" team that actually wants be part of the PRO12 rather than dreaming about the days when they get to cosy up to the English big boys but it's not every really going to happen is it?

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 10:58 am

Irish Londoner wrote:I suppose it's a novelty to see a "Welsh" team that actually wants be part of the PRO12 rather than dreaming about the days when they get to cosy up to the English big boys

laughing
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by VinceWLB on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 10:58 am

What about Pro 14 with London Scottish added too? The league needs as much income as it can possibly gather, if that means having 14 teams in the league, so be it.

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Post by bedfordwelsh on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 11:02 am

The only advantage idea would have would be the less travelling, other than that I cant see any advantages to it.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by offload on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 11:02 am

VinceWLB wrote:What about Pro 14 with London Scottish added too? The league needs as much income as it can possibly gather, if that means having 14 teams in the league, so be it.

Why not wait a short while until London Irish are relegated and we might get a discount for taking all three ! Whistle
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 11:04 am

VinceWLB wrote:What about Pro 14 with London Scottish added too? The league needs as much income as it can possibly gather, if that means having 14 teams in the league, so be it.

Christ, imagine how poor some of those games would be. Zebre v London Scottish. We are trying to increase sponsorship. Not put them off the league for life. That fixture is barely semi pro level.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 11:09 am

Surely the RFU would not allow a club in England to play in a league in another country where the players will be a breeding ground for players of that country.

Ie London Welsh recruiting and producing Welsh eligible players (Of course they need an academy first)...London Scottish - Scottish players etc.

I really have no time for London Welsh. They need to shut their feckin mouths, get back to deer park, get the academy sorted, and focus on rugby, not the "oh woe me" attitude.

Their Strategy and management are appalling.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 11:19 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Surely the RFU would not allow a club in England to play in a league in another country where the players will be a breeding ground for players of that country.

Ie London Welsh recruiting and producing Welsh eligible players (Of course they need an academy first)...London Scottish  - Scottish players etc.

I really have no time for London Welsh. They need to shut their feckin mouths, get back to deer park, get the academy sorted, and focus on rugby, not the "oh woe me" attitude.

Their Strategy and management are appalling.

Thing is every non-capped player at London Welsh/Scottish would be technically time serving for England. So if London Welsh managed to sign a young Kiwi wonderkid, then in three years time he would be English qualified not Welsh Qualified, due to residency.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Guest on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 11:23 am

VinceWLB wrote:What about Pro 14 with London Scottish added too? The league needs as much income as it can possibly gather, if that means having 14 teams in the league, so be it.

Neither side would be ready for a move to PRO12, and PRO12 would need to change format to accommodate another two teams. Otherwise having 14 teams would be too much for an already busy schedule. 12 teams is just about right.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Notch on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 11:27 am

VinceWLB wrote:What about Pro 14 with London Scottish added too? The league needs as much income as it can possibly gather, if that means having 14 teams in the league, so be it.

Dilution of product is an issue we are not taking into account enough in these discussions. On average, each Pro12 team has a higher proportion of current internationals than the English and French sides. This means Pro12 sides can put out their strongest team in a lower proportion of regular season matches- at 12 sides this is already an issue, at 14 sides it gets worse. 14 for extra fixtures and gate receipts is short-termism because the overall quality of the product we're offering will take more of a hit.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Shifty on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 11:31 am

I really don't see either London Welsh or London Scottish joining the pro 12 as a bad thing provided they would not take anything away from the teams already in the league. It depends on whos going to fund them.
London Scottish and Welsh ground sharing might be a good idea.

This thing seems to crop up every year or so when L.Welsh are píssed off about something.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 12:47 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Surely the RFU would not allow a club in England to play in a league in another country where the players will be a breeding ground for players of that country.

Ie London Welsh recruiting and producing Welsh eligible players (Of course they need an academy first)...London Scottish  - Scottish players etc.

I really have no time for London Welsh. They need to shut their feckin mouths, get back to deer park, get the academy sorted, and focus on rugby, not the "oh woe me" attitude.

Their Strategy and management are appalling.

Thing is every non-capped player at London Welsh/Scottish would be technically time serving for England.  So if London Welsh managed to sign a young Kiwi wonderkid, then in three years time he would be English qualified not Welsh Qualified, due to residency.

That's very true..

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by The Saint on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 12:58 pm

"The subject that will not go away" - well to be fair it won't if you keep bringing it up when it's a non-subject.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 1:07 pm

Ooh can we do a trade? Ponty want into the English set up London Welsh want to be in the Pro12. Straight swap and regional promotion/relegation between the four current regions and LW.
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by bedfordwelsh on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 3:28 pm

Maybe they can do a 12 month exchange thingy like students Wink
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Steffan on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 3:31 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Ooh can we do a trade?  Ponty want into the English set up London Welsh want to be in the Pro12.  Straight swap and regional promotion/relegation between the four current regions and LW.
Sounds good. They can play at Sardis and be Called 'Pontypridd Welsh'. We will play at the Kassam (where we have played at before of course) and be called 'London Ponty). My brother is studying at Oxford University as well so I can crash with him every other Saturday. Bring it on

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by doctor_grey on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 5:44 pm

Shifty wrote:This thing seems to crop up every year or so when L.Welsh are píssed off about something.
Exactly.  
This notion won't go away until the (mis)management at London Welsh stops talking about it.  The only two things London Welsh will do for the Pro 12 is help the Italian teams scrape out a few wins and help the Pro12 lawyers gain experience with anti-league litigation.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Cardiff Dave on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 8:45 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Ooh can we do a trade?  Ponty want into the English set up London Welsh want to be in the Pro12.  Straight swap and regional promotion/relegation between the four current regions and LW.

Ponty to the Pro 12, Cardiff to the Aviva.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Steffan on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 8:50 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Ooh can we do a trade?  Ponty want into the English set up London Welsh want to be in the Pro12.  Straight swap and regional promotion/relegation between the four current regions and LW.

Ponty to the Pro 12, Cardiff to the Aviva.
I would rather us be in the Aviva but being as Cardiff have the endless pot of money to compete I could deal with being in the Pro 12

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Cardiff Dave on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 9:10 pm

Steffan wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Ooh can we do a trade?  Ponty want into the English set up London Welsh want to be in the Pro12.  Straight swap and regional promotion/relegation between the four current regions and LW.

Ponty to the Pro 12, Cardiff to the Aviva.
I would rather us be in the Aviva but being as Cardiff have the endless pot of money to compete I could deal with being in the Pro 12

Only joking Steff.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Steffan on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 9:11 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Steffan wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Ooh can we do a trade?  Ponty want into the English set up London Welsh want to be in the Pro12.  Straight swap and regional promotion/relegation between the four current regions and LW.

Ponty to the Pro 12, Cardiff to the Aviva.
I would rather us be in the Aviva but being as Cardiff have the endless pot of money to compete I could deal with being in the Pro 12

Only joking Steff.
No its fine. We could be the new Dragons

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Cardiff Dave on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 9:40 pm

Steffan wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Steffan wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Ooh can we do a trade?  Ponty want into the English set up London Welsh want to be in the Pro12.  Straight swap and regional promotion/relegation between the four current regions and LW.

Ponty to the Pro 12, Cardiff to the Aviva.
I would rather us be in the Aviva but being as Cardiff have the endless pot of money to compete I could deal with being in the Pro 12

Only joking Steff.
No its fine. We could be the new Dragons

If so, will you pretend not to be who you are and not have any ambition whatsoever?

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Steffan on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 9:46 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Steffan wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Steffan wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Ooh can we do a trade?  Ponty want into the English set up London Welsh want to be in the Pro12.  Straight swap and regional promotion/relegation between the four current regions and LW.

Ponty to the Pro 12, Cardiff to the Aviva.
I would rather us be in the Aviva but being as Cardiff have the endless pot of money to compete I could deal with being in the Pro 12

Only joking Steff.
No its fine. We could be the new Dragons

If so, will you pretend not to be who you are and not have any ambition whatsoever?
Indeed. We will call ourselves Pontypridd Rhondda Cynon Taff Welshmen (a good original name like 'Dragons' see)

The board of Pontypridd RFC will be in charge of everything (we will be a region though...honest) and yes we definitely promise to not achieve anything and not contribute many players to the national setup

That all sound good?

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by The Great Aukster on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 11:15 pm

What would LW bring to the Pro12?

An honest answer to that goes a long way to understanding why the PRL don't want the Welsh regions in the AP. It's all about money (or potential money) and LW would be a nett recipient rather than donor.

If the Pro12 are going to recruit a couple of English teams what about say Wasps and Saints?

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Chunky Norwich on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 9:20 am

The Great Aukster wrote: PRL don't want the Welsh regions in the AP.

I've already proved that to be incorrect. That would have happenned if the RCC had stalled.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Irish Londoner on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 9:36 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote: PRL don't want the Welsh regions in the AP.
I've already proved that to be incorrect. That would have happenned if the RCC had stalled.

Oh Chunky, come on there was about as much chance of the Regions joining the Avivia as me getting picked to play on the wing for the Springboks Very Happy

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Chunky Norwich on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 9:37 am

Irish Londoner wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote: PRL don't want the Welsh regions in the AP.
I've already proved that to be incorrect. That would have happenned if the RCC had stalled.

Oh Chunky, come on there was about as much chance of the Regions joining the Avivia as me getting picked to play on the wing for the Springboks Very Happy

Not according to PRL.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 9:43 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote: PRL don't want the Welsh regions in the AP.
I've already proved that to be incorrect. That would have happenned if the RCC had stalled.

Oh Chunky, come on there was about as much chance of the Regions joining the Avivia as me getting picked to play on the wing for the Springboks Very Happy

Not according to PRL.

And to be fair we don't know how good (or SA qualified) Irish Londerer is. He may be a very late bloomer, and have a Saffer granny.
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Post by Irish Londoner on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 9:44 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:Not according to PRL.

"Not according to Nigel Wray and Bruce Craig" I think you'll find is the correct quote, rather like "The Premiership clubs all want the salary cap removed". Whistle

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Irish Londoner on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 9:47 am

And to be fair we don't know how good (or SA qualified) Irish Londerer is.  He may be a very late bloomer, and have a Saffer granny.

You remember when they used to have the "probables V possibles" international trial games, let's just say I wouldn't even get on the bench for the "no forking chance V absolutely no way" game !

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Post by ScarletSpiderman on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 9:51 am

Irish Londoner wrote:And to be fair we don't know how good (or SA qualified) Irish Londerer is.  He may be a very late bloomer, and have a Saffer granny.

You remember when they used to have the "probables V possibles" international trial games, let's just say I wouldn't even get on the bench for the "no forking chance V absolutely no way" game !

laughing clap clap
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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Chunky Norwich on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 9:54 am

Irish Londoner wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Not according to PRL.

"Not according to Nigel Wray and Bruce Craig" I think you'll find is the correct quote

So direct quotes now don't count because you don't want it to be true. I see.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 10:02 am

Chunky, this pipe dream you have about the Welsh regions joining up with the English is just that, a dream, it will never happen, you need to let it go.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Chunky Norwich on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 10:05 am

LordDowlais wrote:Chunky, this pipe dream you have about the Welsh regions joining up with the English is just that, a dream, it will never happen, you need to let it go.

It was all signed and ready to go if RCC didn't happen. That's a fact. Doesn't mean it can't happen again. Very unlikely in the short term.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 10:18 am

It was a power play and would never have happened. Who would have been forced out? You really think the RFU would have said yes this is great?

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Chunky Norwich on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 10:22 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:It was a power play and would never have happened. Who would have been forced out? You really think the RFU would have said yes this is great?

It's a fact. Of course it was a power play. But a very real threat. It was signed.

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 10:26 am

By the RFU?

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Chunky Norwich on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 10:28 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:By the RFU?

By the PRL and RRW.

Chunky Norwich

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 10:30 am

In what way is it a fact?

Anyone seen a signed document?

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Re: London Welsh in the Pro12 ? The subject just will not go away.

Post by Sponsored content


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