What can we do about ISIS ???

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

Not interested in the historical blame game...........We have a very big problem at the moment as the atrocity over the weekend shows.........

I'm at a loss at what to do about iSIS........

Personally think the horse has bolted....

Tunisia can happen anywhere at anytime...

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Post by Pal Joey on Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:33 pm

seanmichaels wrote:
This is only the "West's" fault in the sense that in the minds of these cretins, we're infidels and therefore deserve to die.

Nail on the head.

Should be noted that the term "infidel" was initially used to describe those perceived to be the enemies of Christianity; including Muslims, who were "not faithful" to the Christian doctrine. Yet over time, the term was misappropriated and its meaning has now come to mean something else to what it was originally intended.

Of course, that it the nature of a living and dynamic language such as English. Meanings can and do change - even to the extent of having almost the opposite meaning of the initial intended meaning. However, let's not forget the true origin of the word infidel and the proper context of its use.

Just thought I'd throw that one in.
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Post by seanmichaels on Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:35 pm

kingraf wrote:You're clearly ignoring my point though.  All this enlightenment talk didn't stop the west from meeting up in 1884 to carve up Africa without a single African voice in the meeting. Didn't stop the genocide of Jewish people or Belgian Congolese. Didnt stop the mass murder of Iraqis. You basially tried to claim that the problem in the Middle East is that thy haven't been enlightened and seen "the error of their ways". I'm contending that Isis would have a couple million more people to kill in rapid time before they could even be mentioned in the same breath as some of these "Enlightened" who saw the fallacy of Religion. Instead they killed whole societies for more noble pursuits. Oil for one. Money for another. Because they were failed artists in Austria and had potty training problems is another. Maybe Syrians would feel better being killed for these reasons.

Given the fact that  two or three Algerians have been linked to these attacks and that another has been arrested in Germany over the attacks, I dont think establishing a link is particularly far reaching.

Another thing people don't really acknowledge is that its highly unlikely ISIS are merely religious zealots with machine guns. I suppose that makes a better narrative and they probably don't mind it too much as it certainly makes it much easier to recruit when you claim God is on your side. But they've shown no hesitation in killing Muslims, not even acknowledging or allowing them to complete the Islam final rites. ISIS is a run of the mill coup country trying to take over much of the middle East and North Africa in a bid to probably change trade routes to Asia and cut off Western supply to the Asian market. Nothing new. Sure they get their members by shouting death to the infidels instead of "Lets bring the word of God to the savages" but it's really no differebt different

Fack off. Look at things the west as brought to Africa and the Middle East.

When has the West ever slaughtered Iraqis willy nilly? So much about your post is just plain wrong. They are killing Muslims - Muslims who do not subscribe to their particular brand of Islam.

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Post by kingraf on Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:42 pm

Indeed Thank you for
apartheid
Killing 10 million Congolese
nearly exterminating the Jewish race
assassinating leaders
Putting clowns in charge

I'm genuinely not sure how we got bg before the white robed man came to tell us about Jesus and how salvation could be ours as long as we agreed to till the fields and give away our land
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Post by Scottrf on Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:44 pm

seanmichaels wrote:When has the West ever slaughtered Iraqis willy nilly?
If they were not, then specifically targeting hundreds of thousands of civilians is much worse.

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Post by kingraf on Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:50 pm

Also stupid to claim they kill Muslims who don't subscribe to their brand of Islam. Do they conduct flash surveys of Muslims religious beliefs before they bomb an area? Do they have a decret facebook group which tells all jihadists where the next place to be struck will be? No. The mass killings are no more specific than a wheel of fortune round. The aim is territory. I mean for fu.cks sake its in their name
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Post by seanmichaels on Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:54 pm

kingraf wrote:Indeed Thank you for
apartheid
Killing 10 million Congolese
nearly exterminating the Jewish race
assassinating leaders
Putting clowns in charge

I'm genuinely not sure how we got bg before the white robed man came to tell us about Jesus and how salvation could be ours as long as we agreed to till the fields and give away our land

Chip on your shoulder..... Move on.

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Post by seanmichaels on Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:57 pm

Pi55es me off that it is always the West's fault. We send money to Africa all the bloody time. Not our fault the corrupt governments spend it on bling. If the various empires hadn't pulled the plug the continent would probably be in half decent shape.

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Post by seanmichaels on Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:58 pm

Mbeki walks around like he's fecking 50 cent

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Post by kingraf on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:03 pm

Im not actually talking to you Sean. Everyone here knows you're an unemployed a casual racist who is inbetween homes at the moment. I was speaking to Navy. Stop responding to me. The dole gets pretty full on a Friday.

So go away
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Post by seanmichaels on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:04 pm

Big Girls Blouse.....

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Post by seanmichaels on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:05 pm

Besides, I thought it was you who was unemployed....

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Post by kingraf on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:15 pm

But im no casual racist. Not in need of a job and have a roof under my head.
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Post by Scottrf on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:16 pm

kingraf wrote:But im no casual racist.
You take it seriously?

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Post by kingraf on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:29 pm

No. I'm a racism connoisseur.
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Post by seanmichaels on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:31 pm

kingraf wrote:No. I'm a racism connoisseur.

With a roof under his head....

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Post by Scottrf on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:35 pm

Yeah why are you standing on the roof?

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Post by Pal Joey on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:37 pm

Scottrf wrote:Yeah why are you standing on the roof?

Hes doing more handstands on the roof again. Bloody show off! Smile
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Post by kingraf on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:37 pm

Because we're in the middle of a drought and its fuc.king hot inside. Someone has to do the rain dance
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:29 pm

kingraf wrote:Im not actually talking to you Sean. Everyone here knows you're a casual racist ..

So go away

Like Jack the ripper moaning that Ted Bundy doesn't treat women properly...

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Post by kingraf on Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:35 pm

"According to the much cited facebook group White South Africans Against The Genocide of Farmers 400000 farmers have been killed in the last twenty years".

The fact that you still show your face after spouting such uneducated bulls.hit does make me respect your complete lack of self awareness
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Post by Rowley on Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:42 pm

Watching Question Time last night it seems fairly apparent we are going to bomb Isis, or at least where we suspect ISIS to be. There is a sad predictability and inevitability to how this will pan out. Our response to the refugee crisis there has already been pretty insufficient, so we are going to bomb the bejesus out of the country. As with any bombing campaign there will be collateral damage, so schools, homes hospitals and such like will be destroyed. This will create more refugees and deepen this crisis.

However as we are now gripped with fear some of these will be extremists our response will be to take less rather than more, leaving them in uninhabitable places or inadequate camps. As we have blown the bejesus out of their homes and families and then seemingly turned our backs on their plight this will push them into the arms of the extremists and ISIS with either grow or we will create god only knows how many more splinter groups, and so it goes on and on. Our inability to learn from the mistakes of the past is one of the more depressing elements of this whole affair.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:43 pm

kingraf wrote:Indeed Thank you for
apartheid Yeh, sorry, that was an undeniable disgrace
Killing 10 million Congolese How many more have 'Africans' killed?
nearly exterminating the Jewish race Godwins Law? Not even close to 'exterminated' and no they have their own country and run most of the world.
assassinating leaders which Africans did before and after any involvement by the 'West'
Putting clowns in charge see above ref assasinations

I'm genuinely not sure how we got bg before the white robed man came to tell us about Jesus and how salvation could be ours as long as we agreed to till the fields and give away our land

There were times of significant afluence for African coptic Christians, were there not? Not slaves to white men. Am thinking Abyssinia.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:48 pm

Rowley wrote:Watching Question Time last night it seems fairly apparent we are going to bomb Isis, or at least where we suspect ISIS to be. There is a sad predictability and inevitability to how this will pan out. Our response to the refugee crisis there has already been pretty insufficient, so we are going to bomb the bejesus out of the country. As with any bombing campaign there will be collateral damage, so schools, homes hospitals and such like will be destroyed. This will create more refugees and deepen this crisis.

However as we are now gripped with fear some of these will be extremists our response will be to take less rather than more, leaving them in uninhabitable places or inadequate camps. As we have blown the bejesus out of their homes and families and then seemingly turned our backs on their plight this will push them into the arms of the extremists and ISIS with either grow or we will create god only knows how many more splinter groups, and so it goes on and on. Our inability to learn from the mistakes of the past is one of the more depressing elements of this whole affair.

For whom?

Our two biggest mistakes were going into Iraq and then not supporting Assad. Our ignorance of ME affairs simply created a vacuum into which ISIS have happily taken station.


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Post by Adam D on Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:50 pm



In all seriousness, I think that this is quite a good over view of it all!

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Post by rick_dagless on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:01 am

I still prefer TISWAS to ISIS.

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Post by kingraf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:01 am

Point me to a "war" between African nations where as many died as those died from king Leopald's experiments. Please. Anyone. Given the population density... none would even come close. Not even Idi Amin. Its equally remarkable that you think apartheid was bad but there can somehow be a judtification for killing ten million people. Maiming an unspeakable amount more. And none of this was even conducted in a war. Just a mad man on a warpath. You also seem to suggest killing Africans is okay if other Africans do it. Which is fine. I dont care. If you ignore the reality then that is your choice.

As for Africa before The Invasion. Depends on your definition of affluence. The Modern Khoi San are obviously not particularly materially wealthy, but they like their lives. Are pretty happy, and only wish they had more land to do whatever it is San people do.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:07 am

kingraf wrote:"According to the much cited facebook group White South Africans Against The Genocide of Farmers 400000 farmers have been killed in the last twenty years".

The fact that you still show your face after spouting such uneducated bulls.hit does make me respect your complete lack of self awareness

Was thinking more of its okay for a black guy to hit a white woman apparently and all white NY cops are racist apparently too..

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Post by Scottrf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:08 am

Well, 5 million in 5 years in Congo isn't particularly pleasing either. But who made a justification for killing 10 million people?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:09 am

Kingy has a chip on his shoulder...

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Post by kingraf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:14 am

Point me to a "war" between African nations where as many died as those died from king Leopald's experiments. Please. Anyone. Given the population density... none would even come close. Not even Idi Amin. Its equally remarkable that you think apartheid was bad but there can somehow be a judtification for killing ten million people. Maiming an unspeakable amount more. And none of this was even conducted in a war. Just a mad man on a warpath. You also seem to suggest killing Africans is okay if other Africans do it. Which is fine. I dont care. If you ignore the reality then that is your choice.

As for Africa before The Invasion. Depends on your definition of affluence. The Modern Khoi San are obviously not particularly materially wealthy, but they like their lives. Are pretty happy, and only wish they had more land to do whatever it is San people do.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:14 am

kingraf wrote:Point me to a "war" between African nations where as many died as those died from king Leopald's experiments. Please. Anyone. Given the population density... none would even come close. Not even Idi Amin. Its equally remarkable that you think apartheid was bad but there can somehow be a judtification for killing ten million people. Maiming an unspeakable amount more. And none of this was even conducted in a war. Just a mad man on a warpath. You also seem to suggest killing Africans is okay if other Africans do it. Which is fine. I dont care. If you ignore the reality then that is your choice.  

As for Africa before The Invasion. Depends on your definition of affluence. The Modern Khoi San are obviously not particularly materially wealthy, but they like their lives. Are pretty happy, and only wish they had more land to do whatever it is San people do.

Interesting that you mention the San, they were pretty much wiped out by their fellow Africans, were they not? The Zulus finishing off what the Matabele, Xhosa etc left behind? And how many did the Zulus kills when they pretty much wiped out everything in there path??

Point is, Raf, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Impossible to condone anything you've mentioned, which is why I quite clearly did not, but you can't just blame all Africa's ills on 'the evil white man' and actions of the West. Africans were doing just as bad before and after.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:19 am

Scottrf wrote:Well, 5 million in 5 years in Congo isn't particularly pleasing either. But who made a justification for killing 10 million people?

Nobody that I've seen, and certainly not me.

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Post by kingraf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:23 am

Quote where I said its okay to hit a woman? All I said is that I can understand why he did it. He didnt even turn around to see if it was a woman first. He just hit hit her. If a 6 foot tall man jumped on stage and started rubbing himself against Adele, no one would bat an eyelid if she clocked him instinctively. You're supposed to have a psychological background. The fact that you can't grasp this rather simple idea is remarkable.

As for American cops enjoy (no doubt you actually will)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3FAHKZStds
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/11/us/tennis-james-blake-tackled-video/

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2014/nov/26/cleveland-video-tamir-rice-shooting-police

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Post by seanmichaels on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:23 am

What can we do about ISIS ??? - Page 5 COW_9rsWIAQr7vO

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:24 am

I think incompetence and ego are more prevelant issues among US police than racism.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:27 am

We both know why you were justifying it Kingy...

It's okay...If my Mum and Dad grew up under apartheid I'd probably have controversial views...Every right to be upset !!

My Mum and Dad are Kennedy Democrats. ...So am I..

Anyway moving on..


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Post by kingraf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:31 am

Glass house? I'm not Zulu. Im from the Northern part of South Africa.. If anything I'm more San than Zulu. Nor did I blame everything on the west. That specific post was a response to Sean saying Africa and the middle East should be grateful for tge West. I do take issue with your point that Africans were doing just as bad before though.

The Great Zimbabwean empire certainly wasnt wanting. Neither were the Ethiopians. If anything while Africa would not have been blessed with the material wealth Asia and the West had... Ive yet to see physical evidence which suggests that it was an unlivable place where only the brave sirvived. Deciding to live off the land and not wanting anymore doesnt mean you're poorly off. It just means you've decided to live off the land.
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Post by Scottrf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:32 am

kingraf wrote:Quote where I said its okay to hit a woman? All I said is that I can understand why he did it. He didnt even turn around to see if it was a woman first. He just hit hit her. If a 6 foot tall man jumped on stage and started rubbing himself against Adele, no one would bat an eyelid if she clocked him instinctively. You're supposed to have a psychological background. The fact that you can't grasp this rather simple idea is remarkable.

As for American cops enjoy (no doubt you actually will)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3FAHKZStds
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/11/us/tennis-james-blake-tackled-video/

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2014/nov/26/cleveland-video-tamir-rice-shooting-police

What's worse is that they are supported and not prosecuted. How is Daniel Pantaleo not behind bars?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:34 am

OJ Simpson

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:38 am

kingraf wrote:Glass house? I'm not Zulu. Im from the Northern part of South Africa.. If anything I'm more San than Zulu. Nor did I blame everything on the west. That specific post was a response to Sean saying Africa and the middle East should be grateful for tge West. I do take issue with your point that Africans were doing just as bad before though.

The Great Zimbabwean empire certainly wasnt wanting. Neither were the Ethiopians. If anything while Africa would not have been blessed with the material wealth Asia and the West had... Ive yet to see physical evidence which suggests that it was an unlivable place where only the brave sirvived. Deciding to live off the land and not wanting anymore doesnt mean you're poorly off. It just means you've decided to live off the land.

And, San aside, how many African nations/kingdoms/tribes/civilsations does that little phrase apply to in the last thousand years or so??

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Post by kingraf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:38 am

I don't have controversial views. On anything. My girlfriend's white. Her family is white. I live in the most Afrikaans part of South Africa not inhabited by racist apes. Guess it helps my parents didnt grow up in Apartheid SA on account of my mother being a whiteish Zimbabwean and my dad having had the good fortune of growing up in Spain during apartheid
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:40 am

You're generalising about brave people who have a tough job..

Cheap..

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Post by Scottrf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:41 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're generalising about brave people who have a tough job..

Cheap..
I wasn't generalising. I was talking about the ones who clearly have committed crimes and faced no consequences. Not the entire police force.

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Post by kingraf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:42 am

Are you really asking me how many cigilisations in Africa have embraced the hunter gatherer lifestyle?

Theres litrrally literally dozens and probably hundreds of non San bushmen in Botswana and Namibia right now. The San are hardly one offs.
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Post by kingraf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:44 am

Impossible to do past hunter gathering Southern Africa right now due to both the political climate and the changing environmental climate. You'd die in a week if you tried being a bushie in the Congo or Nigeria.
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Post by kingraf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:48 am

^ should read "Impossible to do hunter gathering past South Africa now"
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Post by seanmichaels on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:55 am

I think it is a bit simplistic blaming africas ill's on Tarzan.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:01 am

kingraf wrote:Are you really asking me how many cigilisations in Africa have embraced the hunter gatherer lifestyle?

Theres litrrally literally dozens and probably hundreds of non San bushmen in Botswana and Namibia right now. The San are hardly one offs.

No, your post suggested Africans avoiding the accumulation of wealth, as if greed was a concept introduced by white westerners and Africans just want/wanted to 'live off the land' within their own means.  Which is baloney.  Africans have been as hungry for wealth (measured in many different ways) and power as any white/westerner for hundreds if not thousands of years.

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Post by kingraf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:04 am

No my post said suggested Africans didn't have the wealth Asians European nations had. You can tell that's what it suggested because that what it says. You're conflating my statement with your own home theories.
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Post by kingraf on Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:10 am

Its useless to compare Western ideals of power or wealth with African ones because for the best part of Africa's history it was (and probably still is) geographically nearly impossible to build an empire on par with the Roman or Ottoman empire.

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