England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

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England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 1:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

England

Lyth
Cook
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson


Australia

Prob Team:

Warner
Rogers
Smith
Clarke
Voges
Marsh
Nevill
Johnson
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood



Officials


Umpires - HDPK Dharmasena and M Erasmus
TV umpire - CB Gaffaney
Match referee - RS Madugalle
Reserve umpire - AG Wharf


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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:23 pm

VTR wrote:Butterfingers Bell drops another one! He seems to drop 2 or 3 every match, what the eff is he still doing in the slip cordon? Off Stokes as well, a man who seems to have every chance he creates dropped!

Hah . I see we agree.

In fairness to Bell , he caught them OK at Cardiff - as did England generally. But I don't think he's as sharp as he was ; would prefer Cook , Root , Lyth as the cordon.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:32 pm

Just as well this is 2015 Australia. c. 2000 would have had Hussey/Clarke/Gilchrist or WaughMartyn/Gilchrist coming in at 200/2 and the only question would be whether it's an innings defeat.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by TightHEAD on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:35 pm

Par score on this wicket?
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:36 pm

kingraf wrote:Just as well this is 2015 Australia. c. 2000 would have had Hussey/Clarke/Gilchrist or WaughMartyn/Gilchrist coming in at 200/2 and the only question would be whether it's an innings defeat.

McGrath Warne also ...

Perhaps the fact that they aren't present on the field will be a comfort to the England batsmen later on.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:40 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Par score on this wicket?

600-5 dec. or thereabouts

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:43 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Par score on this wicket?

450 I think. But estimates of "par" often look a bit silly after two innings....

Slowish session - just 87 from 30 overs. But no wickets . England being ground down here.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:44 pm

Have no fear England. Nearly time for Rogers to fluff his lines with a Test century beckoning
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:46 pm

With 33 overs left in the day, Aus will be looking at 300-320/3 and no worse at the close of play. Seems the plan is to bat five sessions then?
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:51 pm

With the exception of Warner's daft dismissal, Australia playing good proper Test cricket - something they didn't do enough in Cardiff. They've won both sessions today.

No need for England to panic but they could do with clinging on to all chances - including the difficult and very difficult ones - that come their way. They're also going to have to bat well when their time comes - no reason why they can't but it already looks like we'll be playing catch up.




















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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:11 pm

This is Ashes cricket 90's style. Who's coming on to bowl next - Chris Lewis?

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:17 pm

In the old days we'd already be saying "nailed on draw" looking at this pitch.
Modern teams however don't seem to do the batting for time thing so reliably : certainly England rarely look happy these days when they are effectively shut out of a winning chance ...

Apart from the way this game eventually goes , one thing that may affect the result of this series is the wear and tear on the fast bowlers on each side. England really cannot afford to have Anderson and Broad worn down too much as they just aren't replaceable. And Australia have already suffered some attrition in that area with Harris leaving early and Starc struggling a bit at Cardiff - though he is apparently fine to play here now ; he will be glad they won the toss , perhaps.
Could be the series may rest on which team manages the bowlers' workloads better. And although many people think it is in England's interests to have mainly slow easy pitches , I am not sure their bowlers would agree...

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:27 pm

Alfie - yes, modern teams don't seem so good at batting out time and/or playing catch up. Scoreboard pressure seems to increasingly come into it.

Take your point about bowlers' workloads.

Al least we're keeping something of a lid on things (bar that 4 driven down the ground by Smith off Moeen) - 2 or 3 wickets in this session could keep us thinking we're still in with a sniff.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:31 pm

Steve Smith seems to have found fourth gear. Might get to 100 before Rogers, who's stuck in one on an incline in a rickety Corolla.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:31 pm

Broad in particular has bowled well here and not allowed anything easy. But you wonder where a wicket is coming from today : barring a rush of blood from one of these batsmen ; there just isn't anything happening for the bowlers.
Think we are in need of some Trebell magic Smile

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:34 pm

The "modern way" has it's drawbacks and it's positives. You'll lose games you shouldn't, but also win games you previously couldn't (England vs NZ first Test). You can't have it both ways, except for South Africa, obviously.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by GSC on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:35 pm

Australia were guilty of a few soft dismissals in Cardiff but not here. Pitch isnt entirely dissimilar, hard for bowlers to get batsmen out.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:39 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - yes, modern teams don't seem so good at batting out time and/or playing catch up. Scoreboard pressure seems to increasingly come into it.

Take your point about bowlers' workloads.

Al least we're keeping something of a lid on things (bar that 4 driven down the ground by Smith off Moeen) - 2 or 3 wickets in this session could keep us thinking we're still in with a sniff.

We werekeeping a lid on ...39 in nine overs since tea ; and now Smith is after Joe Root...

Think we need four wickets before the close to get back in this ; and not sure where they're coming from...

New ball I suppose. But might be a bit late if these two are still in !

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:40 pm

This is great application by these two.

England weary, but one wicket can have such an effect.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:41 pm

Hundred for Smith clap 2015-07-17

Not the man you want to drop on fifty...

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:41 pm

clap Fine century by the former Surrey second eleven player. Wink

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Guest on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:42 pm

Congrats smith, but another awful wicket.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:43 pm

Smith wins the race, but more importantly, he's found fifth gear.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by NickisBHAFC on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:46 pm

Steve Smith bossing it. 

Rodgers proving to be a pain yet again as well.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:52 pm

And now Rogers gets there too. clap As Duty said, great application by him and Smith.

Alfie - yes, the lid looks like it's coming off. One wicket could make such a difference but difficult to see where it can come from at the moment!

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:56 pm

Smith is showing doubts about his technique to have been unfounded. But I knew that already Very Happy

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:57 pm

Rogers gets what he missed at Cardiff ...good to see him on the board here , at his other home thumbsup

England will be getting a little desperate ; though I see no signs of panic yet - Cook keeps ringing the changes , and they have certainly tried a number of tricks , as yet without success.
New ball will see nearly 300 on the board ; so the opportunity to keep the final score down to a reasonable limit is becoming pinched.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by trebellbobaggins on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:00 pm

well this start has put to bed any idea that Aussie weren't ready for this series. One swallow did not a summer make and all that.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:02 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:well this start has put to bed any idea that Aussie weren't ready for this series.  One swallow did not a summer make and all that.

4-1 to the Aussies coming up.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:02 pm

Warner will more and more feel like the guy who forgot to donate to the office lottery ticket fund the weekend the jackpot got hit.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:03 pm

guildfordbat wrote:And now Rogers gets there too. clap As Duty said, great application by him and Smith.

Alfie - yes, the lid looks like it's coming off. One wicket could make such a difference but difficult to see where it can come from at the moment!

Have to be a mistake , won't it ? And these two aren't making many...

They have indeed played classic Test Cricket today. Not as exciting as NZ - who would probably have fifty more runs by now , but might be six out ; but it is damned effective.

I fear England are looking at a chase well in excess of 500. Would be nice to see them match it from a development point of view ; but the spectators may have mostly left by day four...

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:07 pm

Stokes and Ali have combined for 1-122, at over four runs an over. I'm still not convinced by this process of having "can sorta bowl, can basically bat" at both six and eight.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by trebellbobaggins on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:09 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:well this start has put to bed any idea that Aussie weren't ready for this series.  One swallow did not a summer make and all that.

4-1 to the Aussies coming up.

they're a good side but each match will throw up something different so we can't be sure and it might be closer than that.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:14 pm

I can just imagine this being like Adelaide 2006..only with an English victory.

But, I fear, is Moeen as good as Warne?

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:17 pm

So the ridiculous notion of seniority (in regards to the slips) has cost England a shot at winning the game. Ludicrous
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:19 pm

kingraf wrote:Stokes and Ali have combined for 1-122, at over four runs an over. I'm still not convinced by this process of having "can sorta bowl, can basically bat" at both six and eight.

You don't get too many days like this though...the combination seemed to work pretty effectively at Cardiff. I think they are both still developing as bowlers , so I don't have a problem with England persevering with them. If a Swann were available to bowl spin , it might be different ; but I don't see one Smile

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:25 pm

The combination worked at Cardiff with both bat and ball because they had platforms in both (Ali less so, to be fair). They generally come short when they are asked to put in an equal share of the load.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:30 pm

Steady on raf ... They've only played together what , seven or eight times ? Bit early to be making sweeping judgements I think.

Anyway : what would your alternative be ?

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:35 pm

300 up in the 81st. New ball taken for the last nine of the day...

Better get a wicket or Warne is going to drive me up the wall ; he is developing a gently gloating tone (understandably perhaps !) which I am not enjoying Smile

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 5:48 pm

To be honest, I have no way forward on the Stokes-Ali dichotomy, I was just pointing out they combine for a rather poor fourth bowler. No surprise as Stokes averages 85 for the year at four an over. Offers neither controlling nor penetrative bowling. Just balances the over spread for the day.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 6:00 pm

Hundred and fifty for Rogers clap

An excellent innings : pretty well ensured his team can't lose this match ; and bids fair to go on tomorrow and help give them time to win it.
And to think there were those considering whether S Marsh might be a chance to have the opening slot before the series began...

Not looking forward to seeing Craig's road map in the morning Smile

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 6:02 pm

Just an absolutely brutal day for England - and exactly what Australia needed to bounce back from Cardiff.

Lot of work ahead for us to save this match, which is the only aim now
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by trebellbobaggins on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 6:04 pm

would be fair to say this series is likely level already.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 6:08 pm

The moment of the day was Broad's ball to Rogers on 34/0 - a ball which, by rights, should have clean bowled the Australian. Instead it missed the bat, and whistled by the off-stump oh so merrily.

England have been disappointing today, but they haven't had any breaks either, save for Warner batting like a child. Rogers and Smith were excellent for the most part, and wore down the England arsenal.

Such is the nature of modern cricket, all four results are still a possibility! England will need something masterful and inspirational in the morning to limit Australia to below 475.

Australia probably aiming for 600+!

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 6:11 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:would be fair to say this series is likely level already.

Wouldn't go that far ...yet. Pitch looks exceptionally flat ; and England bat deep. They could bat for two days and bore everyone to tears...

But Australia will fancy this , after a perfect first day for them.

Looking further ahead ; I always felt England will need to win three matches , as I don't see two draws. So it would remain very open still in any case.

For now ; well batted Rogers and Smith clap

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 6:11 pm

What a feck awful day of cricket. If I had tickets for tomorrow I think I would probably burn them!

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by trebellbobaggins on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 6:19 pm

True Alfie, I think it will show us how Eng cope under real mental pressure anyway.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 7:04 pm

Id say all square after day 1, 700 looks par score chin

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 7:27 pm

alfie wrote:Hundred and fifty for Rogers clap

An excellent innings : pretty well ensured his team can't lose this match ; and bids fair to go on tomorrow and help give them time to win it.
And to think there were those considering whether S Marsh might be a chance to have the opening slot before the series began...

Not looking forward to seeing Craig's road map in the morning Smile

It might involve Cook inventing a rain machine! Very Happy

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by sirfredperry on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 7:28 pm

Just back from Lord's. Expect the usual bo**ocks from England players along the lines of "If we can get nine quick wickets and make a quick 600 we're in with a chance."
If there is one thing more rubbishy than cricketers talking about a match before it starts it's the drivel they come out with DURING a match.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 8:05 pm

Excellent tweet from Mark butcher - "Lesson: If you prepare deliberately flat surfaces, you make yourself a hostage to the flip of a coin. Series on!
#Ashes2015"

Fully agree - we were on the right side of it in Cardiff, and the wrong side here.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

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