England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

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England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 1:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

England

Lyth
Cook
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson


Australia

Prob Team:

Warner
Rogers
Smith
Clarke
Voges
Marsh
Nevill
Johnson
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood



Officials


Umpires - HDPK Dharmasena and M Erasmus
TV umpire - CB Gaffaney
Match referee - RS Madugalle
Reserve umpire - AG Wharf


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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 10:36 am

Aus win the toss and unsuprisingly are batting. Huge win for them in the series.

Big pressure on Braod and Anderson to take early wickets here.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 10:39 am

Yes we need early wickets and a big first innings lead. Can't remember the last time we pulled off a decent chase in the 4th innings, must have been a while ago?

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 10:41 am

Okay my road map for the day.

Australia will be desperate to get off to a good start and will look to go into lunch no worse than 120 for 2. They will look to kick on and get to tea around 250 for 4 at worst and end the day around 375 for 6 at worst.

England will hope they can use humidity and new ball early on to get early breakthroughs. They'd look to have Australia around 100 for 3 at lunch, 210 for 5 at tea and have Australia at around 330 for 8 at close of play.


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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 10:45 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:Okay my road map for the day.

Australia will be desparate to get off to a food start

Fortunatly the catering is pretty good at lords, and no doubt a smi fit Ali will serve up some pies later in the day to them up.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 10:48 am

Australia will crumble at the first sign of pressure - Steve Smith has an atrocious record at this ground; the openers are ropey; the lower middle-order soft.

It's the job of the English seamers - Anderson and Broad - to put instant pressure on the opposition. 20'/2 or something like that.

Days 2 and 3 are when it is best for batting, so I think England will be wanting to bat by tomorrow morning.

Or might Australia spring a surprise...

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 10:50 am

Yep ideal scenario is that Broad has his one a year good days and rips them apart.
Realisticaly keeping them under 400 is decent for England. Aus will be looking for 450 plus to really put pressure on England and open the series right back up.


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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 11:00 am

How atrocious can your record be when it consists of one Test?
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 11:03 am

kingraf wrote:How atrocious can your record be when it consists of one Test?

Two tests, he made his test debut at Lords in 2010 and this is his 3rd at Lords.

but yeah, small sample.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by PaulHv2 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 11:18 am

Expensive start from Jimmy, hopefully that early chance from Rodgers won't prove to costly.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 11:20 am

Was it a genuine chance? From radio sounded like it cleared slip cordon with some ease.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 11:36 am

Unfortunately I have a sinking feeling that Australia will go big today in this first innings. I can see them being 380 for 4 at the end of the days play.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 11:42 am

So Australia with the initial advantage by winning the toss on what I'm assuming is a pretty good batting strip ?
Certainly no alarms in the first half hour except for an early edge over slip. Strange how Rogers seems to have taken up Warner's fast start and vice versa...
Rogers will feel at home here.
Can't have Duty's suggestion that the openers are ropey ! Pretty handy pair , I'd say. Agree the middle order looks questionable ; but if these two get them a good start and Smith and Clarke find some form that might not matter - one or other will make some runs.

Think England need at least a couple of early wickets or they could be chasing a bit of leather later on...

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 11:50 am

Only following via radio at the moment...but it sounds as if Wood has been more threatening than either of the openers so far.
Still no wicket yet...
Anderson switching ends.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 11:53 am

We will be lucky to get 3 or 4 wickets today. This is an absolute road to maximise income from the £75+ tickets. The kind of pitch where you lose the toss and start mentally preparing for batting out the draw on day 5

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 11:55 am

Warner catching up. Another good start created by these two. 50 partnership up. Aus looking good.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by PaulHv2 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 11:56 am

England have bowled poorly, not enough balls in the right area.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 12:06 pm

Quite an abundance of swing, thus far, and England have deserved to get a wicket, just a couple of balls have been too good!

England need more consistency - enough swing and movement to take full advantage if they want it.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 12:11 pm

Warner - daft as a brush!

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 12:11 pm

You bloody idiot Warner.

Just toss your wicket away. Absolutely pathetic. A schoolboy wouldn't have fallen for the obvious trap there.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by PaulHv2 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 12:11 pm

Warner has given it away there, already hit two fours in the over there's just no need to take that shot on picard
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Mat on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 12:12 pm

Moeen strikes again... Whistle

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 12:14 pm

Thank the lord that David Warner has less brains than a pork pie!

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 12:16 pm

Moeen gets the break ...Warner a bit too keen on smashing him out of the attack immediately ?

Bright start though 78/1 not much over the hour.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 1:01 pm

Clearly Australia's morning as they reach lunch on 104 for 1. Can they build on this start in the afternoon? If so they will be well placed to post a score in excess of 400.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 1:36 pm

Just about the perfect session for Australia.

You'd imagine they would be looking for north of 400 after that start. But it is still early : couple of wickets after lunch and things could change a lot.
Not seen any of this yet ; but I wonder if England were guilty of over attacking early on ? Seem to have steadied after the wicket...new start in ten minutes...

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 1:54 pm

They had to go for wickets eraly, thats likley to be the best chance they will have in the first two days. Its pretty poor they relied on the spinner getting smashed and a poor shot to get one at all.
Hard to see where they will take 20 wickets from now even with Asutralias weak batting line up.
This is Australias game to lose now. The way both sides go about their business its highly unlikley there will be 5 days batted out even if it turns into a huge scoring game.


Hats off to Rogers who is looking set to make it 8 50+ scores in 9 test innings. He and Warner have become a much more solid partnership than they look on paper.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 1:59 pm

England just have to stick in there - it's interestingly poised.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:00 pm

As much as anything in this series I'm quietly hoping Rogers ends up with an average of 40. Looking okay so far, but needs a biggish score to shore himself.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:05 pm

Not sure I'd call Australia's batting weak.

Top four are pretty good...the middle (now substantially changed ) a bit dodgy lately ...and the tailenders are fairly handy. I think England deserve more credit for bowling extremely well at Cardiff - and scoreboard pressure helped.
I would say that Australia in recent years have tended to bat much better when given first use : they are inclined to be fragile when chasing.

They've got a good start today. Might be a big score coming . Which will be a test for England's batting...

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:07 pm

England are choking the flow of runs; have done since the first hour had finished.

Sticking well to their plan of bowling to Smith; Rogers rarely converts his fifties into a big score, either. After that, it's Clarke...and then the soft, inexperienced middle.

Persistence and patience the key.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:England are choking the flow of runs; have done since the first hour had finished.

Sticking well to their plan of bowling to Smith; Rogers rarely converts his fifties into a big score, either. After that, it's Clarke...and then the soft, inexperienced middle.

Persistence and patience the key.

Indeed that is the only way forward from here. But I fear it is starting to look like an uphill battle.

Your prediction of the side batting first suffering a catastrophic collapse is looking a bit wide of the mark , Duty Smile


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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:19 pm

I think getting Australia out for 350 or less is still a good one to aim for, though!

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:19 pm

Aussies will get at least 500 here, then its a matter of how well England can bat to get close to that total and take the defeat out of the equation. I think its going to be a long few days following this one!

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:23 pm

500?!

They've only got four quality batsmen!

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:25 pm

We once scored 600+ against you and we only needed the top four.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:26 pm

kingraf wrote:We once scored 600+ against you and we only needed the top four.

Ah yes, but that was South Africa's top four.

A far more impressive vintage than this current Australian side.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:29 pm

Duty281 wrote:500?!

They've only got four quality batsmen!

One of thems out and anothers in rubbish form.

That said if they ever are going to get big runs its this innings form this start. England already seem to have slipped into negativity and are running out of ideas and swing.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:32 pm

Duty281 wrote:500?!

They've only got four quality batsmen!

I don't agree, also if that's the case for them couldn't you say the same about England? Or even go as far as saying England have 3 quality/proven players (Cook, Bell, Root)

Aussies bat deep as well, they have got a decent enough batting lineup

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:34 pm

500 isn't set in stone yet. But if England can't grab a couple of wickets in this session they are going to be in a very strong position to really put the boot in after tea. And if tonight sees , say , 340/3 , then...

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Lot of time , and a second new ball later , so anything can happen. Bit ominous though that so few false shots have even been forced. And Smith has an appetite for big scores ; as does Clarke.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:44 pm

Why the negativity? It is a belter of a batting strip and ball not doing anything yet Australia pinned around scoring at 3.5 runs an over - hardly taking command stuff. The best way to judge is once both teams have batted on it once. Australia certainly have control at the moment.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:52 pm

Sure , Craig. No reason England shouldn't respond in kind : certainly seems a fine batting surface ; and Lord's doesn't tend to deteriorate much.
Just the old bogey of Scoreboard Pressure.

And , I suppose , some disappointment that England haven't been able to carry the momentum from Cardiff into this first day. Which is not entirely their fault , perhaps : lost toss , good pitch , sound batting - sometimes you have to give your opponent credit. But it has rather put to bed the notion that Australia might be easy meat after a first up loss and some players falling away.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:59 pm

On the good side , I have a working stream at last so can at least watch England's efforts to force a breakthrough ...and I nearly got Smith already ! Edged wide of slips...OK , low and never going to hand , but still Smile

They have slowed the runs. Though 3.4 isn't awful. But what they wouldn't give for two wickets ...

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by kingraf on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:59 pm

Looking at the wicket, I think Watson will be annoyed he wasn't given a final, final, final final chance here
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 2:59 pm

Sure Alfie. My point is though that even though Australia have a belter of a batting wicket, an excellent start and all things set well they are hardly pressing that advantage home. You'd expect them to now be scoring well over 4 runs an over whereas since lunch they have scored at closer to 3 runs an over.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:03 pm

kingraf wrote:Looking at the wicket, I think Watson will be annoyed he wasn't given a final, final, final final chance here

I was thinking that, he would probably be coming in at 350-4 and be able to play with freedom against tired bowlers - I would back him to make runs. Watch his replacement do something similar and drive the final nail into the coffin of his career

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:12 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Sure Alfie. My point is though that even though Australia have a belter of a batting wicket, an excellent start and all things set well they are hardly pressing that advantage home. You'd expect them to now be scoring well over 4 runs an over whereas since lunch they have scored at closer to 3 runs an over.

True. I do suspect they have made a decision to be a little more careful here , after losing several wickets to loose shots at Cardiff. Think England started off after lunch with a fairly tight spell from the main bowlers ; and Smith is quite happy to score comfortably rather than pushing it - at least for now. As long as they don't lose wickets , they'll be well set to score quickly this evening - or even tomorrow.
No weather concerns , I understand ; so they probably think they can afford to bat long in this innings.

These two and Clarke still very much key ; not sure the less experienced later order will be quite so composed.

Smith with fifty. Hardly his most fluent ; but it is a nice start for him , after two rather abridged innings at Cardiff.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:15 pm

Dropped catch !

Low ; but you have to take those on days like this. Bell should have caught it.

Stokes has been bowling well and that was arguably coming ...Hope they won't have to wait two more hours for the next chance...

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:16 pm

Yes Alfie and seeing as Warner continued in that vain giving away his wicket I think that just hit the message home.
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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:19 pm

Butterfingers Bell drops another one! He seems to drop 2 or 3 every match, what the eff is he still doing in the slip cordon? Off Stokes as well, a man who seems to have every chance he creates dropped!

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Jul 2015, 3:19 pm

I haven't looked up any stats : but it is my impression that Stokes has a rather high proportion of dropped catches off his bowling ...

May be wrong - sometimes these instances just stick in the mind. But I fancy he has - so far in his career - been a rather "unlucky" bowler.

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Re: England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

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