England vs Australia 4th Test, Trent Bridge

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Post by VTR on Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:00 am

First topic message reminder :

As The Ashes thread has gone on a tangent arguing over who is SA's best fast bowler, let's get back on topic with a match thread.

Conditions for the 5 days look generally dry so there will be an almost certain result for either team. Also looking cloudy for large periods, so the loss of Anderson might be huge for England

England: Cook, Lyth, Bell, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Broad, Wood, Finn

Australia: Rogers, Warner, Smith, S Marsh, Clarke, Voges, Nevill, Johnson, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon


Last edited by VTR on Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:32 am

No it has been touched on in analysis on Sky and elsewhere. The Australian batsmen struggle to play the moving ball. They are used to Australian pitches without movement and go at shots with hard hands so when doing that then edges off the bat invariably go at catchable heights.
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Post by Stella on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:39 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:No it has been touched on in analysis on Sky and elsewhere. The Australian batsmen struggle to play the moving ball. They are used to Australian pitches without movement and go at shots with hard hands so when doing that then edges off the bat invariably go at catchable heights.

This is Clarke's first poor tour of England. His woeful run has nothing to do with Aussie pitches.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:42 am

Stella wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:No it has been touched on in analysis on Sky and elsewhere. The Australian batsmen struggle to play the moving ball. They are used to Australian pitches without movement and go at shots with hard hands so when doing that then edges off the bat invariably go at catchable heights.

This is Clarke's first poor tour of England. His woeful run has nothing to do with Aussie pitches.

Yes Clarke is purely on a woeful run of form. His exit yesterday was flashing hard at a drive - desperate shot that wasn't there. Look at the other dismissals and those at Edgbaston and it really is flawed technique from the majority of the Aussie batsmen.
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Post by liverbnz on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:43 am

seanmichaels wrote:SA is a big tour. I'd hope that Cook skippers that then stands down. Bell I'm not too fussed about either way.

Why? He'll be 31.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:44 am

Cook has many years in front of him yet as skipper and Anderson perhaps has maybe another two or three years in front of him.
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Post by VTR on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:53 am

Has KP_Fan been busy texting into cricinfo? Just seen this:

"Every day will not be Thursday. Australia will rise and shine. Not only they will take the lead they will win the match"


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Post by Stella on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:56 am

VTR wrote:Has KP_Fan been busy texting into cricinfo? Just seen this:

"Every day will not be Thursday. Australia will rise and shine. Not only they will take the lead they will win the match"


It's either him, or Trellbell!
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Post by liverbnz on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:57 am

I can't read the cricinfo comments. Most of them are barely legible.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:57 am

I hope Cook carries on, and think he will. I've been saying Bell will retire at the end of this series for a while now, I hope he hits a century at the Oval to finish it all!

Anderson maybe has a year left, at most? At least Broad will be able to lead the attack!

And Joe Root will go on to become one of the greatest English batsman of all time, possibly the greatest, if fitness does not desert him (no indication to think it will!).

Lead of 214 currently - another 140 or so would probably guarantee an innings victory.

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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:59 am

We've already got enough
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:00 am

Duty281 wrote:

And Joe Root will go on to become one of the greatest English batsman of all time, possibly the greatest, if fitness does not desert him (no indication to think it will!).


I agree but would say it is a worry he already has back issues.
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:06 am

Its worth noting that a few weeks ago everyone was blaming the excessive movement from county " 4 day result" wickets for the English test players chasing wide balls on flat pitches, and for the dominance of medium paced dibbly dobbler bowlers in county attacks over raw aggression and pace.

"Local conditions" can work both ways.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:07 am

Duty281 wrote:I hope Cook carries on, and think he will. I've been saying Bell will retire at the end of this series for a while now, I hope he hits a century at the Oval to finish it all!

Anderson maybe has a year left, at most? At least Broad will be able to lead the attack!

And Joe Root will go on to become one of the greatest English batsman of all time, possibly the greatest, if fitness does not desert him (no indication to think it will!).

Lead of 214 currently - another 140 or so would probably guarantee an innings victory.

Even the Aussies have given up on the win. I have heard them talking this morning of game plans to salvage a draw. At present England lead by 219 (after First Innings) and the world record first innings deficit overturned from first innings to win a test is 291. Bear in mind England still have six wickets standing as well.
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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:14 am

Time for a Wood maiden century?
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Post by VTR on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:15 am

Only 6 instances of a team ever conceding over 200 run lead and winning as far as I can make out.

2 of those are oft talked about victories against Aus after following on. The lead here is already larger than 2 of the 6

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Post by kingraf on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:18 am

I dont think Clarke has had that poor a series as captain. On field anyway. Aus took 40 wickets in the first two Tests. In the third \, they got England all out for less than 300 in the first innings. He hasnt been scoring runs, but thats the nature of the beast. Its his first proper poor run of form since 2006, and even then, he scored a series winning ton in South Africa, and one with a bad back and hamstring against India. Class player and \, more importantly, Aus has such a lack of understudies that they really are not in a position to show him the door. I mean... Clarke for Maxwell?
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:18 am

VTR wrote:Only 6 instances of a team ever conceding over 200 run lead and winning as far as I can make out.

2 of those are oft talked about victories against Aus after following on. The lead here is already larger than 2 of the 6

I am well nigh certain as well that those teams that turned around such a deficit had not suffered the ignominy of being bowled out for 60 in their first innings. In short you cannot erase such an experience and the click into big score mode.
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:22 am

Pretty bad for Aus when the England night watchman outscores their team.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:22 am

Wood has nailed three fours from Johnson's bowling. Laugh

Mitch is approaching another century!

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Post by VTR on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:23 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
VTR wrote:Only 6 instances of a team ever conceding over 200 run lead and winning as far as I can make out.

2 of those are oft talked about victories against Aus after following on. The lead here is already larger than 2 of the 6

I am well nigh certain as well that those teams that turned around such a deficit had not suffered the ignominy of being bowled out for 60 in their first innings. In short you cannot erase such an experience and the click into big score mode.

One of them was Australia scoring 75 in response to 300 against SA. That one was in 1950 though!

What is amazing is Australia were involved in all six of the matches where it has happened

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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:23 am

How long until Wood overtakes Root?
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Post by Duty281 on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:24 am

Ah Root gone. He was shaky on the drive this morning, and Starc has bowled well.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:26 am

Root out....worst test pitch hes ever played on mind.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:30 am

He's scored 443 runs this series, at an average of 78.83. #superb

Probably only has one more innings to hit 500 for the series!

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Post by seanmichaels on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:30 am

liverbnz wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:SA is a big tour. I'd hope that Cook skippers that then stands down. Bell I'm not too fussed about either way.

Why? He'll be 31.

I thought he was a tad older. I just feel at that time it will be right for Root to take over as test, t20 and one day skipper. Cook can enjoy his cricket for a few more years and break all the batting records going.

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Post by VTR on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:34 am

Cook will carry on I am sure. The calls about Bell and Anderson retiring within the next year have a lot of merit I think.

There seems to be an assumption that Anderson can carry on until he is 36/37 but I can't see it myself, and I don't think he will fancy too many more tours

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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:34 am

Fifer for Starc. Well bowled despite the circumstances.
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Post by Scottrf on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:35 am

Wood looked like getting out for a few balls there. That was inevitable.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:36 am

Starc is doing just as much to humiliate Johnson as the England batsmen are.

6 down - could be all over today, perchance?

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Post by kingraf on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:37 am

Five wicket haul for Starc. This Ashes might be the Test series where he finally "gets it". Special, special bowler. All the pace and ferocity of a peak Mitchell, with all the skill and je ne sais qois of a Boult. Him and Hazlewood are gonna run through teams in the next few years.
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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:37 am

This is where Buttler should smack a few quick runs.
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:38 am

Starc one Aus player who will go home with real credit from this series.

Johnson ...well its the same old isnt it. And sums up how unlucky England were to hit him at a sustained run of good form on the last trip over. When hes firing hes brilliant, but his form is such a rollercoaster. Fine margins I guess when you bowl the way he does, but Starc seems to have a lot more consitency.

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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:41 am

Starc was crap at Edgbaston if we're being fair
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Post by seanmichaels on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:42 am

Bowls a lot of 4 balls.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:43 am

Must be curshing for Aus to know theres still 3 " all rounders" and Broad who can hold a bat still in. The front up batting may be a bit dodgy but Englands depth is ludicrous.
The otehr thing here is that Starc and Johson will have bwoled a decent chunk of overs this morning prior to the new ball, so maybe wont get maximum advantage form that if england avoid chucking wickets away.
They have to go for broke of course and cant afford to " see out " the overs till then. But this does make the decision to hold back Johnson yesterday even more questionable. They really had to go for the throat from the start of the innings not once the game was already gone.

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Post by seanmichaels on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:44 am

Think it is a bit harsh on Johnson. Killed us at Lord's, very nearly got Aus back into the game at Edgbaston.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:45 am

Gap between bat and pad for Buttler, but a very good ball that swung back late.
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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:45 am

6 for Starc, Buttlers so so form continues
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Post by VTR on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:46 am

Its swinging round corners, quite gloomy. I think this will be over today

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Post by kingraf on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:47 am

Gooseberry wrote:Must be curshing for Aus to know theres still 3 " all rounders" and Broad who can hold a bat still in. The front up batting may be a bit dodgy but Englands depth is ludicrous.
The otehr thing here is that Starc and Johson will have bwoled a decent chunk of overs this morning prior to the new ball, so maybe wont get maximum advantage form that if england avoid chucking wickets away.
They have to go for broke of course and cant afford to " see out " the overs till then. But this does make the decision to hold back Johnson yesterday even more questionable. They really had to go for the throat from the start of the innings not once the game was already gone.

To be honest, I think they were going for the kill. Starc had to open because he has more X-factor than a TV show where I still havent quite understood how different it is to Idols. Hazlewood, until this test, averaged 22, with a SR of 37 in this series. They were arguably the two likely to get a wicket.
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Post by kingraf on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:48 am

Starc could get Nine. And unlike Broad he did it against a team not using a rhubarb to bat!!
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:48 am

Starc getting the wickets his bowling not only today but yesterday deserved. Been wonderful, suited to this kind of pitch.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:49 am

See I wouldve liked to see Buttler try and bat properly for once. Not scratch around but bat a proper test innings.
Noone will question his ability to slap fast balls for the odd quick foir score around but his test form has opened up the question if he will ever be a good enough test bat to cover up for only being an adequate keeper.

Its not like theres any pressure here to keep the game moving.

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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:49 am

The problem is England were tight when they bowled. Starc is bowling jaffas and 4 balls in equal measure and its running further away.
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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:51 am

Lead inching towards 300, and 500 needed for Australia.
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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:52 am

Broad wants to be in Brighton tonight for the Forest game, nice to see the lower order doing him a favour.
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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:53 am

Hazlewood is the 3rd highest individual wicket taker in this game, with 2
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Post by VTR on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:53 am

England are collapsing here. Doesn't really matter when you are 250 ahead, but not the best batting this morning

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:54 am

Dominant morning from Aussie, wresting back the advantage. It's the age old problem of not keeping their head in the game. Massive collapse looking them look little better than Aussie bar one man.

From where they were Eng needed to be getting 400 so they are chasing a small total in the second.  They're falling short of that, giving a class Aussie batting line up a chance to post them a trick run chase.  Aussie sniffing the series draw now.

Doody.. you jinxed Root there sadly.  He did well overall though.


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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:55 am

The problem is, conditions have reverted back to favour bowling.
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