Hiroshima 70 years on.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Thu 06 Aug 2015, 1:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33754931

The morality of what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki has always troubled me. My grandfather who I never knew, suffered terribly at the hands of the Japanese in Burma, and I made a point of doing a bit of research into how cruel and degrading conditions were in that part of war.

WWII was a conflict that hopefully will never be surpassed in it's brutality and cruelty.

However the allies were responsible for some of the worst atrocities in the entire conflict.

The destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki whilst absolutley monstrous probably saved lives, however the morality still doesn't sit right with me.

‘ It is not enough that corruption is recognized, it must be opposed. It is not enough that ignorance is acknowledged. It must be defied. Win or lose, what matters is making a stand for the virtues we will bequeath to the human race in generations to come. When this war was finally "won", the Allies held a worthless prize since on the last day, on the last action, they led humanity into moral darkness. ’ - Hiroshima Survivor

Discuss....
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Post by President Trump on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 8:32 am

seanmichaels wrote:Were the Japs researching nuclear weapons? The Nazis definitely were. Could easily have been Coventry or Rotherham that was the first hit with the A-Bomb. The damage would have run in to tens of pounds......

It was the Nazi scientist that completed the American research after the Americans "liberated" them from Germany

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Post by Rowley on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 9:53 am

Van Braun I believe he was called. He went on to be their lead scientist on their space programme. There is an excellent book on the subject called Space Race by Deborah Cadbury for anyone interested. The US were very lucky in getting to the moon first. Russia beat them to nearly every significant step in the race, but their lead scientist died which allowed the States to catch up and beat them to the big one. Fascinating stuff if you're into anything like that.

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Post by President Trump on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 10:04 am

Rowley wrote:Van Braun I believe he was called. He went on to be their lead scientist on their space programme. There is an excellent book on the subject called Space Race by Deborah Cadbury for anyone interested. The US were very lucky in getting to the moon first. Russia beat them to nearly every significant step in the race, but their lead scientist died which allowed the States to catch up and beat them to the big one. Fascinating stuff if you're into anything like that.

Yeah I've seen some stuff on that on the Discovery Channel, I say it would have been very different if the Russians made it up to the moon first, after the US made it they kind of forgot about space travel, so maybe that would have been the kick up the arse they needed and we would have gone to Mars by now or at least had some kind of base on the moon (other than the secret Nazi one Wink )

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 10:37 am



Iron sky, and hour and a half of my life I cannot get back. mad
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Post by President Trump on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 11:00 am

You'll love the 2nd one out next year so Very Happy

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Post by Scottrf on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 11:26 am

Rowley wrote:Van Braun I believe he was called. He went on to be their lead scientist on their space programme. There is an excellent book on the subject called Space Race by Deborah Cadbury for anyone interested. The US were very lucky in getting to the moon first. Russia beat them to nearly every significant step in the race, but their lead scientist died which allowed the States to catch up and beat them to the big one. Fascinating stuff if you're into anything like that.
That's if you believe that they've been to the moon.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 11:35 am

Rowley wrote:Van Braun I believe he was called. He went on to be their lead scientist on their space programme. There is an excellent book on the subject called Space Race by Deborah Cadbury for anyone interested. The US were very lucky in getting to the moon first. Russia beat them to nearly every significant step in the race, but their lead scientist died which allowed the States to catch up and beat them to the big one. Fascinating stuff if you're into anything like that.

Wernher Von Braun...."The Mars project"......Is well worth reading too............An incredible visionary..

Highly recommended..


Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ..)

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Post by Rowley on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 11:52 am

Scottrf wrote:
Rowley wrote:Van Braun I believe he was called. He went on to be their lead scientist on their space programme. There is an excellent book on the subject called Space Race by Deborah Cadbury for anyone interested. The US were very lucky in getting to the moon first. Russia beat them to nearly every significant step in the race, but their lead scientist died which allowed the States to catch up and beat them to the big one. Fascinating stuff if you're into anything like that.
That's if you believe that they've been to the moon.

Did you mean to post this under your onetwo account?

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Post by Scottrf on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 11:53 am

Rowley wrote:Did you mean to post this under your onetwo account?
Keep it quiet.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 1:26 pm

No man has ever stepped on the moon.

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Post by kingraf on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 1:34 pm

There isn't even an actual moon!
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 1:50 pm

Wallace and Gromit have..

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 2:12 pm

I would find that easier to believe Truss.

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Post by Alistair on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 2:46 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Rowley wrote:Van Braun I believe he was called. He went on to be their lead scientist on their space programme. There is an excellent book on the subject called Space Race by Deborah Cadbury for anyone interested. The US were very lucky in getting to the moon first. Russia beat them to nearly every significant step in the race, but their lead scientist died which allowed the States to catch up and beat them to the big one. Fascinating stuff if you're into anything like that.

Wernher Von Braun...."The Mars project"......Is well worth reading too............An incredible visionary..

Highly recommended..

Hello Truss,

Often find myself lurking around these parts and never feel the need to post. I've previously come across this and i agree it's a fascinating read. Particularly how advances in technology exploited the flaws in his original planning. As you say, incredibly visionary and certainly with some minor tweaks would still be a valid plan for a manned mission to the red planet.

Best,

Ali

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 3:14 pm

Alistair wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Rowley wrote:Van Braun I believe he was called. He went on to be their lead scientist on their space programme. There is an excellent book on the subject called Space Race by Deborah Cadbury for anyone interested. The US were very lucky in getting to the moon first. Russia beat them to nearly every significant step in the race, but their lead scientist died which allowed the States to catch up and beat them to the big one. Fascinating stuff if you're into anything like that.

Wernher Von Braun...."The Mars project"......Is well worth reading too............An incredible visionary..

Highly recommended..

Hello Truss,

Often find myself lurking around these parts and never feel the need to post. I've previously come across this and i agree it's a fascinating read. Particularly how advances in technology exploited the flaws in his original planning. As you say, incredibly visionary and certainly with some minor tweaks would still be a valid plan for a manned mission to the red planet.

Best,

Ali

thumbsup

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Post by incontinentia on Tue 11 Aug 2015, 3:52 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Rowley wrote:Van Braun I believe he was called. He went on to be their lead scientist on their space programme. There is an excellent book on the subject called Space Race by Deborah Cadbury for anyone interested. The US were very lucky in getting to the moon first. Russia beat them to nearly every significant step in the race, but their lead scientist died which allowed the States to catch up and beat them to the big one. Fascinating stuff if you're into anything like that.
That's if you believe that they've been to the moon.
You think there could be something up their sleeve?
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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 13 Aug 2015, 3:15 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Hero is typical of someone jumping in who knows nothing about the subject...

I don't think we thought that far ahead.....Americans and allied troops being killed and abused was more than likely a more immediate concern... Rolling Eyes

Geez..
I disagree. I think some were thinking a long way ahead (at least in part) and I'm sure they were making a big point to the Soviets. Not that I mind that and I completely understand the argument that America was thoroughly fed up with the loss of its own military personnel and had no stomach nor mind to invade the Japanese mainland.
Interesting factoid: read somewhere that less than 2% of the fissile U235 in "Little Boy" actually achieved fission...

Total war eh? Who'da thought it could be so nasty? picard
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Post by Hero on Thu 13 Aug 2015, 4:06 pm

I recall reading a quote by Truman from when he was still senator that he didn't mind which side was winning between the Russians and Germans as long as they killed lots of each other.

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Post by Hero on Thu 13 Aug 2015, 4:09 pm

Found the quote now:

If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 13 Aug 2015, 4:22 pm

Truman had a good relationship with Stalin in 45...He couldn't stand in his words "The limey king"

The official reason we gave for ending the war was to save allied lives and to bring the troops home..

Everything else is either fantasy or supposition....Or both.

If you don't like America it's natural to presume the worst.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 13 Aug 2015, 4:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Truman had a good relationship with Stalin in 45...He couldn't stand in his words "The limey king"

The official reason we gave for ending the war was to save allied lives and to bring the troops home..

Everything else is either fantasy or supposition....Or both.

If you don't like America it's natural to presume the worst.
Seriously? "King", as in George VI I presume? Well, I have to say I never knew Truman was such a pr!ck. Embrace a monster because you think you don't like a hereditary monarch? That's clever. This despite the demonstrable evidence that George VI was a positive for Britain and its morale in the war? Idiot.
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Post by Hero on Thu 13 Aug 2015, 5:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Truman had a good relationship with Stalin in 45...He couldn't stand in his words "The limey king"

The official reason we gave for ending the war was to save allied lives and to bring the troops home..

Everything else is either fantasy or supposition....Or both.

If you don't like America it's natural to presume the worst.

As I've previously mentioned I'm part American myself and my grandfather died in service, I have nothing against the nation, I wouldn't exist without the war or without America coming to Britain's aid.
Officially the line had to be one of 'we are ending the war', how could they possibly say 'this is a warning to any possibly future aggressor that if you dare step out of line with us then we have the capability to destroy your cities with one bomb, oh and that means you Stalin'.

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