The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

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The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Duty281 on Thu 20 Aug 2015, 10:32 am

First topic message reminder :

England bowling first!

England Team
A Lyth, AN Cook*, IR Bell, JE Root, JM Bairstow, BA Stokes, JC Buttler†, MM Ali, SCJ Broad, MA Wood, ST Finn
Australia Team
CJL Rogers, DA Warner, SPD Smith, MJ Clarke*, AC Voges, MR Marsh, PM Nevill†, MG Johnson, PM Siddle, MA Starc, NM Lyon

Two changes for Australia - Siddle in for Hazelwood, and Mitchell Marsh replaces his brother. No Shane Watson recall.

England unchanged.

4-1 is so very possible.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:18 pm

Duty281 wrote:England in a bit of a rut here. The chances of rain seemed to have lessened somewhat, so a sterling effort is required.

431 is a minimum requirement - thankfully the best batsman in all the world is at the crease.

Just teach them to bat and they'll be golden.

seriously, what was Cook thinking?

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:19 pm

JDizzle wrote:Bell gets out like that a lot though... Either he's unfortunate that he gets a lot of jaffers, or he makes those balls look a lot better than they are. Admittedly, I've only just turned it on and seen the dismissal in slow mo.

Poor concentration when the pressure is on?

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:19 pm

That's out
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:20 pm

He gets opened up a lot does Bell, bit of a technical fault I think.

Reckon he's hit this. Classic Beefy 'nowhere near it'.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:23 pm

bloody hell.  England really are utter crap under pressure.   shockingly bad.


I'm glad. I got peed off when the media climbed up their own ass as usual and mocked aussie after a couple of bad games and totally over-rated England. The players don't deserve this (though they could learn to bat to prevent it) but the media and the morons do.


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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:23 pm

Big bats causing a caught behind > big bats ruining ODI cricket, in the completely ridiculous statement stakes.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:23 pm

Yeah as soon as Botham said that you knew it'd be out Laugh

This is excellent stuff from Australia
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by temporary21 on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:28 pm

Oh dear...
To be fair some great Aussie bowling, and shows why it was ridiculous to leave out Mitchell Marsh,

282 the target now.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:29 pm

The last leg will be fun tonight. Hills can argue they are the better side. Take away movement and England can't play.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by temporary21 on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:32 pm

They ARE the better side, exept in swinging conditions, thats why its such an achievement weve won the series

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:34 pm

temporary21 wrote:They ARE the better side, exept in swinging conditions, thats why its such an achievement weve won the series

That's true, I just wish the media has said that and not talked up an unlikely victory on a road that suited Aussie.

I also wish Cook had the sense to realise it.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:40 pm

I'm really not convinced by Bairstow at all personally.
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:42 pm

Absolute nothing shot from Bairstow. Painful.

Was having an argument about Bairstow, I was claiming Buttler is the better batsman at test level. Just not convinced by Bairstow against real top bowling.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:44 pm

JDizzle wrote:Absolute nothing shot from Bairstow. Painful.

Was having an argument about Bairstow, I was claiming Buttler is the better batsman at test level. Just not convinced by Bairstow against real top bowling.

I think they're similar with the bat, but Buttler is the better gloveman.

As I say that jos goes...
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:45 pm

Just as I back you Jos. Laugh

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:45 pm

temporary21 wrote:They ARE the better side, exept in swinging conditions, thats why its such an achievement weve won the series

They're not the better side then are they, a lot of over reaction to a game that means sod all, when it really mattered we smashed them.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by kingraf on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:45 pm

The optimistic will say England are batting poorly because the series is in the bag, but Root apart, this is exactly how they've played the whole summer. Atrocious batting all round from both sides
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:46 pm

Important mind games from England here, lulling them into a false sense of security for the return series. Good thinking.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:47 pm

JDizzle wrote:Important mind games from England here, lulling them into a false sense of security for the return series. Good thinking.

Keeping the crap Aussie players in the side. Excellent thinking
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Gregers on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:48 pm

Bairstow really doesn't look test quality, and didn't in his last run in the side
What does Taylor have to do to get into this side?

Lyth surely has to be dropped for Pakistan/uae. Ali to open with rashid at 8?

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:49 pm

It has been a rubbish series, in terms of quality, but as expected the English bowling meant the home side prevailed.

I was hoping England would win 4-1 because then the bookmakers would price Pakistan decently for the upcoming series...they might see the light now!

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:50 pm

To be fair, Bairstow scored a barrel load of runs in the CC, and Taylor was in diabolical form up until he made 200 a few days before the squad for Birmingham was announced. Think Bairstow deserves a couple more Tests anyway. They've picked him now, at least give him an opportunity. He did make 70 in the last test...

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by kingraf on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:52 pm

Also, nice to see Steve Smith repeat the trick again and make the pitch only flat when he's batting
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Gregers on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:53 pm

I'm not judging him solely on this series, before at test level he looked rubbish

It comes down to bairstow or buttler for me and of the two buttler has the ability to change the game. Both are average with the gloves

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:54 pm

kingraf wrote:Also, nice to see Steve Smith repeat the trick again and make the pitch only flat when he's batting

I like the fact that's he's been found out in a series when he's scored over 500 runs...
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:56 pm

Steve Smith looked rubbish at Test level in 2011. That should be pretty irrelevant now. They've picked him on the player they saw this season, and were impresed by the changes he made. Bairstow should be judged solely on his performances in this run in the side, not what he did in 2012.

The winning probability graph is my new favourite thing. Turns out England being 85-6 means they are less likely to win. Ace.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:04 pm

The pitch is flat. It is a featherbed.

It's the type of track that Steve Smith excels on, and the sort that the English batsmen like to cheaply surrender on.

Over 400 runs on flat tracks this series.

33 and 33 at Cardiff. 7 and 8 at Birmingham. 6 and 5 at Nottingham. Dismal returns on difficult pitches.


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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:04 pm

This is becoming a little funny now
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:06 pm

I don't think it's overstating the point to call Smith a flat track bully, he is in my mind the worst batsmen i've ever seen be ranked number one in the world, he piles up the runs when it's easy but goes missing when it matters. He is a perfect example of why an average on it's own means very little, you lose all context of how and when the runs were made.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:08 pm

kingraf wrote:The optimistic will say England are batting poorly because the series is in the bag, but Root apart, this is exactly how they've played the whole summer. Atrocious batting all round from both sides


They're batting poorly because they are poor. There should be no pressure on when they have the series won. Not nearly good enough is the honest truth.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:11 pm

Eight down.

'Cor blimey, England are going to lift the urn after being battered by an innings and 200 runs! Laugh

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:18 pm

Any danger of the umpires calling no balls, like at all
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Gregers on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:19 pm

Olly wrote:Mitchell marsh may be the worst cricketer I've seen play for Australia

Do you want to revise your judgement mate...

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:21 pm

Gregers wrote:
Olly wrote:Mitchell marsh may be the worst cricketer I've seen play for Australia

Do you want to revise your judgement mate...

I'm not sure England playing like dog poo really makes him great...
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Gregers on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:22 pm

I didn't say great (he isn't) but worst ever for Australia? A long way off if that

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by temporary21 on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:23 pm

Hes not exactly batting well though is he mate...
The balloons gone out of England, winning it at trent bridge they havent been able to summon the impetus again

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by temporary21 on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:24 pm

Then again who cares at this point, its like a davis cup dead rubber, they lose within 2 and a half days, lift the urn and get planning on how to bat on roads in Pakistan

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 7:16 pm

Aussie pathetic * 2 and now England pathetic.

what a weak series when it comes to batting.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by kingraf on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 7:53 pm

temporary21 wrote:Then again who cares at this point, its like a davis cup dead rubber, they lose within 2 and a half days, lift the urn and get planning on how to bat on roads in Pakistan

Given the fact that Root aside, no Englihman has averaged over 40 for this series; it would be disappointing (and in the case of certain players - career ending) for them to have phoned in a performance here.
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by trebellbobaggins on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 8:14 pm

agreed, they needed to show they can bat.. they can't.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by temporary21 on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 8:51 pm

I dunno, would be nice, but its the after party and England have little left to prove. A little context is required here, the ashes are won, by a team far inferior on paper, and have put the 5-0 to bed. congratulate the Aussies on good bowling in a dead game and give the guys a well deserved pat on the back

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 9:20 pm

Hopefully England will learn how to bat before the South Africa series, and then they might have half a chance.

They can write off the series against Pakistan though.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by VTR on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 9:25 pm

Our batting is a problem, and has been all series. When the bowlers fire it doesn't matter, you will win most of the time bowling teams out for 120 or 60.

Lyth, Bell and Buttler have generally been very poor in this series

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by kingraf on Fri 21 Aug 2015, 10:59 pm

temporary21 wrote:I dunno, would be nice, but its the after party and England have little left to prove. A little context is required here, the ashes are won, by a team far inferior on paper, and have put the 5-0 to bed. congratulate the Aussies on good bowling in a dead game and give the guys a well deserved pat on the back

More than nice, I really don't think Lyth could afford to play this Test as a coronation of some sort. And to a large extent the same is true for Buttler, Bell and Bairstow. These guys aren't fools. They know more failure in a series where they've almost exclusively failed won't be overlooked because they are 3-1 up.
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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 6:25 am

Well well ...I turn in at tea interval and wake up to that scorecard Shocked

Shouldn't really be shocked I guess : team seems to collapse quite often when Cook goes early. And to be honest I feared before the series they would probably have at least two total batting meltdowns at some point : fortunately the bowling was good enough to win the other three games.

So what do we make of this ? Three options , I think.

1. Who cares ? Dead rubber ...

2. Disaster ! We are rubbish , sack the coach , axe half the team , panic stations.

3. Well that was disappointing. Clearly work to do with the batting lineup ...but this is what you are going to get with a team that is still rebuilding after losing half the experienced players : ie , very inconsistent performance.

No surprises I'm going for 3. We should be thankful that the team has unexpectedly won back the Ashes while still very much in the development stage.

Not to say just cop it quietly , mind. There are changes needed , which this just emphasizes . Lyth has confirmed he just isn't good enough . And there remain serious doubts over both the wicket keeping options in terms of batting ; though I think both will still travel to UAE. Concerns over Bell : some think he will call it a day after this match , which I doubt. He will need runs there though - which he certainly didn't get last time ! Better have a replacement option on hand...
Despite the Aussies getting 481 here I'm less worried about the bowling. Anderson will be back ; and the new boys have shown enough promise to suggest the pace bowling will be OK. Could do with another spinner for surfaces that call for that type of bowling ; and I guess we will see whether or not Rashid has what it takes in a few months.

As for this game : you'd think even Clarke would enforce the follow on for once ? So simple enough : bat for two days Smile

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 6:36 am

I think you take Lyth but whether he plays or not is a different matter. He might come good away from the pressure cooker of an Ashes series, especially one where he's been in his own head from the start. If they see him as the kind of positive early-doors batsman that dictates their new way of playing then I don't think one series is enough to put him to bed on. I stand by Compton being likely a better performer, but they obvious don't see him as the future of the top order so it may be pointless to bring him in at the start of a series when they can reassess their options rather than making a quick fix.

As for Bell; well I have never been a big fan. I think his elegance on form can hide the fact he never really seems to dominate a bowling attack, and he seems to do about enough every so often to stay in rather than going on long runs of form. Has he looked good against spin in this series? Questionable for me, and maybe now is the time to look at replacing him.

I won't for a second ignore the fact that with the series won England have less motivation, and motivation is a funny thing in sport. Psychology can be so hard to quantify as to the impact in games, but if the edge is gone then your percentages drop. Australia have a lot to fight for emotionally, and to be honest they are clearly a match for England when the ball isn't moving too much. Siddle's figures are no surprise to me and show clearly that his lack of game time has been a mistake.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 7:10 am

Agree on Siddle , Dolphin. Though in fairness to the Australian selectors he hasn't done much recently - I think he should have played earlier in the series ; though it probably wouldn't have stopped them being bowled out for 60 Smile

The motivation thing counts , certainly. I do wonder how that would have worked had England batted first here...perhaps even an average score , say 300 , would have been enough to finish Australian resistance . Can understand why they chose otherwise , of course , given the two previous matches ; but I think there was a bit of taking it for granted things would just happen...which is usually fatal.

You really think Lyth might have a future ? I may be making a harsh judgement ; but I just don't think he looks like a Test batsman. A hundred against NZ , true. But the rest has been pretty dreadful. I will be very surprised if he plays again ; but I've been wrong before. He is certainly a damn good slip fielder ; but that isn't enough.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 7:14 am

Can't disagree, but you just know he is gonna produce here. He's got that old Aussie attitude, he doesnt shirk the challenge and he likes the pitches.

I can't say Lyth has convinced me, but then who has he convinced this series? Much depends on whether they see this as what he is gonna do on the test stage or whether he has gone into a bad patch but the credentials they saw in him originally are worth pursuing. Its interesting because I don't think it's Compton's ability that stops him being selected, so there must be a vision they have for an opener that Compton might not fit.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 7:30 am

Think they felt Compton was too passive...not really a useful foil for Cook. Might have been a harsh call...but they were a bit keen to try Root there at the time.
Lyth is certainly busy enough . Just not effective ; and the thought of him facing Steyn in SA is a bit frightening. I fancy that Hales may get a chance next now.
Not sure how that will work . His fifty over form is a bit underwhelming so far. But if he did take to it , he'd be exciting.

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Re: The Fifth and Final Test at The Oval

Post by kingraf on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 8:05 am

The issue with Siddle was who do you drop? They've gone and dropped Hazlewood (thus confirming my bet was wasted), but heading into the fourth test he had an average of 22 for the series at a strike rate of 37. He was a little expensive, but he was clocking up the sticks. You can't drop Johnson because, well he's created the legend, and one bad summer doesn't make him disposable. Starc is the golden boy of Australian cricket. Player of the tournament in the world cup. Dating Alyssa Healy. Capable of moments of real magic. Australia took something of a gamble and decided they wouldn't get a donkey work bowler, except for Watson/Marsh. And to be fair, it's a tactic which only failed because their bowlers have had nothing to bowl at. Not too often a team 3-1 down will have three of the top four bowlers.
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