Ashes Player ratings

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Ashes Player ratings

Post by kingraf on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 10:12 am

Because no series is complete without a 606v2 Ashes player rating, I'll give it a go.

ENGLAND


Alastair Cook - 7 - Led well. a couple fighting knocks when up against it. Will be a little disappointed with his overall batting contribution, but good series overall.
Adam Lyth - 2 - Not much to say, although I'm sure his local priest will be sending an "I told you so" text regarding the number 666. Renounce the devil.
Ian Bell - 5 - Not great, and possibly his last Test, but he did guide England through a potentially tricky chase, and set up a couple innings with fighting half centuries.
Joe Root - 8.5 - Possibly his star turn as a batsman. Batted very well in his centuries, a fact further highlighted by the fact that none of his team mates raised their helmet.
Gary Ballance - 4- You'd think it's a long way back for him, but his replacement did not exactly set the series alight.
Jonny Bairstow - 4.5 - One innngs of note, about the same as Ballance.
Ben Stokes - 5.5 - Fiver in the fourth Test aside, not much with the bat. 50 in Lord's aside, not much with the ball. Plausibly a top six batsman, when you have Ali in at 8, I suppose. (Swann gave him a 7.5 though... don't know what he was watching)
Buttler - 5 - Decent series with the gloves, not so decent with the willow.
Ali - 6.5 - Couple adventurous knocks with the bat, and crucial(ish) wickets with the ball mark a good, but not outstandingly so, series for Ali.
Broad - 8 - Had a bit of fun in Cardiff with the bat, in a partnership which probably made the difference between being prohibitive favourites, and Aus being too far behind. Also had his customary unplayable day with the ball.
Anderson - 6.5 - Possibly unfairly downgraded for having the temerity to fall injured, but a good series overall for Burnley Lara
Wood - 5.5 - Provided good support for the big boys. Not convinced yet, though.
Finn - 6 - He has his good days. He has his not so good days. Managed to limit the damage on his not so good days.

Australia
Rogers - 8 - Class player. Sad to see him go
Warner - 7 - Will be disappointed to not have converted one of his many fifties into something substantial.
Smith - 8 - Many will disagree, but I think being the first Aussie player to clock 500 in an away five-test Ashes series in 67 years says enough.
Clarke -4 - unfortunately this is mostly because I refuse to go any lower. Have to have had an irreparably bad series to get less than four. Led well, which propped up an otherwise horrid series.
Voges - 5 - Not particularly inspiring. But he did score a couple inconsequential knocks.
S. Marsh - 3 - Okay, not irreparably bad. But had a nothing test
M. Marsh - 6 - There's possibly something there, but I'm not yet convinced. Strikes me as more of a 7/8 all rounder than a #6 who bowls.
Watson - 4.5 - If cricket awarded players on aesthetics and starts, he'd be Bradman.
Haddin - 3 - nothing Test and dropped what probably was the series in Root early on. Sad way to go.
Nevill - 6 - Good with the gloves,. Decent with the bat. Nuggety little player. Will need to watch out for Matthew Wade behind him though.
Johnson - 5 - Inconsequential 50, and reasonable second test aside, rather disappointing series. Punctuated by Aus dropping (okay he might have been injured) their leading wicket taker in the hope that more control on the other side would make him more effective... It didn't
Starc - 7 - Not quite as consistent as he'd like to be, but has x-factor in spades, and batted as well as any of the supposed "all rounders"
Hazlewood - 7.5 - Best Aussie bowling average, little expensive but the Hazlewood train is still on (Swann gave him a 3.5, despite giving Johnson a 6, which confirms that he was watching a different series)
Siddle - 7 - I don't buy the "He should have played" hype/ Averages 40+ since 2014, but obviously had a good test
Lyon - 7.5 - Good series overall. quality little bowler is Nathan.
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by seanmichaels on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 10:34 am

Lyon was very good but England batting line up tailor made for him.

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by VTR on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 10:43 am

Good ratings, not much to disagree with there

If anyone wants a laugh, check out Graeme Swann's ratings on the BBC. The spirit of CF lives on!

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 10:57 am

kingraf wrote:Because no series is complete without a 606v2 Ashes player rating, I'll give it a go.

...

Raf - isn't it also a 606v2 requirement that at least a couple of the ratings bear no resemblance whatsoever to performance? I'm still looking for that in your post. Wink

Perhaps Swann did it for you! Seriously though, a good post with imo ratings there or thereabouts (anyone can always go at least 0.5 up or down) and pretty appropriate comments. I particularly note your comment about Wood - from appearing to be close to the real deal early in the summer, the jury now seems out on him. I feel that's understandable and fair enough given his form and performances.

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by kingraf on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 11:08 am

guildfordbat wrote:
kingraf wrote:Because no series is complete without a 606v2 Ashes player rating, I'll give it a go.

...

Raf - isn't it also a 606v2 requirement that at least a couple of the ratings bear no resemblance whatsoever to performance? I'm still looking for that in your post. Wink

Perhaps Swann did it for you! Seriously though, a good post with imo ratings there or thereabouts (anyone can always go at least 0.5 up or down) and pretty appropriate comments. I particularly note your comment about Wood - from appearing to be close to the real deal early in the summer, the jury now seems out on him. I feel that's understandable and fair enough given his form and performances.

Cheers Guildford Very Happy
Wasn't an awful series, but the ratings point to a bit of a dearth in quality
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 11:16 am

Cheers in turn, Raf.

The real disappointment to my mind was how easily players (on both sides) capitulated in every Test once they went behind. Any fightback was left until the next match. Ebb and flow during a Test is key for me and there wasn't nearly enough of that in this series.


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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:40 pm

I think you are being generous on Clarke.
Led well is arguable, he certainly got screwed to some extent by the selectors but its poor captincy to be openly drawn into saying you arent happy with some of the players in your team being there or the way they got their places. He has to take some resposibility for the lack of fight when they went behind in games.
Got moved down the order to hide him
Averaged about 15, I believe (cba to fully check) that only Lyth of the proper batsmen who played 5 tests did worse.
Didnt bowl, drop an important catch.

Generous 3.


Cant argue withthe low score for Ballance but its a bit harsh to say its a long way back. His overall record is still pretty decent, and hes proven he can score big runs in tests. Hopefuly the coaches will be working on specifics with him to bring him back.

Stokes is a weird one. The pundits and players seem to rate him very highly, because like Flintoff hes capabale of delivering things that other players simply cant. But if you look at his overall record its not reflective of an especially good player. Batting wise he has had a decent summer but hes still only averaging 31.
How you rate him overall I guess depends on wether you focus on one or two devatsating spells of bowloing and a few runs, or the endless expensive wicketless overs.

I think youa re being a bit generous to Ali who failed in his primary duty, bowling effective wicket taking spin. He lacked control and wickets.

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by kingraf on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:04 pm

Gooseberry wrote:I think you are being generous on Clarke.
Led well is arguable, he certainly got screwed to some extent by the selectors but its poor captincy to be openly drawn into saying you arent happy with some of the players in your team being there or the way they got their places. He has to take some resposibility for the lack of fight when they went behind in games.
Got moved down the order to hide him
Averaged about 15, I believe (cba to fully check) that only Lyth of the proper batsmen who played 5 tests did worse.
Didnt bowl, drop an important catch.

Generous 3.


Cant argue withthe low score for Ballance but its a bit harsh to say its a long way back. His overall record is still pretty decent, and hes proven he can score big runs in tests. Hopefuly the coaches will be working on specifics with him to bring him back.

Stokes is a weird one. The pundits and players seem to rate him very highly, because like Flintoff hes capabale of delivering things that other players simply cant. But if you look at his overall record its not reflective of an especially good player. Batting wise he has had a decent summer but hes still only averaging 31.
How you rate him overall I guess depends on wether you focus on one or two devatsating spells of bowloing and a few runs, or the endless expensive wicketless overs.

I think youa re being a bit generous to Ali who failed in his primary duty, bowling effective wicket taking spin. He lacked control and wickets.

RE: Clarke
Maybe a touch kind. But I do believe he led well. Only thing I could really criticize him for was bowling first in the third Test. but nowadays I can't think a skipper who isn't picking his own team decides on his own what to if they win the toss. Even ignoring my obvious man love for Clarke, I do think its hard to rate captains lowly even if they've had poor series unless they were atrocious as skippers as well.

Re: Ali
You might be right. I found it difficult to rate both Ali and Stokes. Stokes because I feel I'm the kid who got x= 6 in the test where the whole class got x= 8, and I keep going through my notes to see where I made my mistake and can't see it. Ali because I completely agree with the assertion that he failed as a bowler, but he was England's third leading run scorer, as well as their third leading wicket taker. In most series, 13 wickets @ 45, and 300-odd runs @ 36 wouldn't be a 5.5, but in this one, I guess he made a 5.5 impact


Last edited by kingraf on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:16 pm

Its shocking that hes third highest run scorer tbh, indicative of just how rubbish the top 7 have been.

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by VTR on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 4:00 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Its shocking that hes third highest run scorer tbh, indicative of just how rubbish the top 7 have been.

Root aside they have all ranged from mediocre to outright terrible. Cook would be at the upper end of that, but only really made an appearance when all was pretty much lost. Lyth must be the worst England opener for quite some time, absolutely shocking all series.

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by alfie on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 4:05 pm

I don't like numerical ratings for cricket. I know , I've said it before. Sorry,

But some fair ones above from raf.

Though I think something is a little odd : all the England bowlers bar Broad are rated below all the Australian bowlers ! Odd how they won the series then...

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by Stella on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 4:27 pm

alfie wrote:I don't like numerical ratings for cricket. I know , I've said it before. Sorry,

But some fair ones above from raf.    

Though I think something is a little odd  : all the England bowlers bar Broad are rated below all the Australian bowlers !  Odd how they won the series then...

Didn't the Aussie players dominate the stats in 2013, yet their team still lost? Funny old game........
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by kingraf on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 4:44 pm

alfie wrote:I don't like numerical ratings for cricket. I know , I've said it before. Sorry,

But some fair ones above from raf.

Though I think something is a little odd : all the England bowlers bar Broad are rated below all the Australian bowlers ! Odd how they won the series then...

I got tired towards the end and didn't cross reference!! It was a strange series. Three Aussie bowlers in the top four bowlers. Siddle had a good lone game, so I suppose one of those things.
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 8:52 pm

I'd have starc as the best Aussie bowler not hazlewood but pretty much agree with the rest of rafs ratings.

Pretty poor series all round
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by temporary21 on Tue 25 Aug 2015, 2:53 pm

Its a pattern. The Aussies, when they win, win very very well, but England were better where it mattered. The 1st innigns of the 3rd and 4th tests even the top Aussie bats were poor, and their bowling followed with wayward stuff.

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by VTR on Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:03 pm

Olly wrote:I'd have starc as the best Aussie bowler not hazlewood but pretty much agree with the rest of rafs ratings.

Pretty poor series all round

I think the greedy administrators got the series they deserved - although some passages of play were exciting for fans of either team as they rolled the opposition, close competitive cricket it wasn't. Let's hope we never see 15 Ashes Tests in the space of 2 years ever again

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by temporary21 on Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:16 pm

I cant blame the surfaces too much. Yes TB and Edgebaston swung a lot, but they are known as swinging pitches, and England got the 1st mornings play, with cloud cover.

Both teams are front runners, with Australia being better at doing it, neither react in matches very well at all, but a year ago England wernt good at either, at leats we now know they can press home an advantage

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by VTR on Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:49 pm

temporary21 wrote:

Both teams are front runners, with Australia being better at doing it, neither react in matches very well at all, but a year ago England wernt good at either, at leats we now know they can press home an advantage

I thought they were quite decent at it in the India series - 3 front-running victories secured the series. Also the win vs. NZ at Lord's was an excellent fightback victory.

What I would like to see them add is a bit more resilience so they can escape matches where they are behind with a draw by batting for long periods. Lords and The Oval contained one absolutely pathetic innings each

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 26 Aug 2015, 8:26 am

temporary21 wrote:I cant blame the surfaces too much.

The Aussies are hilarious on this. Clarke has now been claiming that the first two pitches were fair and the later ones were cooked up.

The reality is when its sunny in England its hard to get grass. When theres mixed rain and sun you get green grass. When its humid the ball is easier to swing.
Cardiff is always rubbish, the Oval and Trent Bridge are almost always results wickets...especially in the type of weather we had for the later games.

Thats just the way things are. To listen to the Aussies bleat on about how their grounds all have individual characteristics then complain that there was seam movement at TB is hilarious. Not forgetting of course that when England went over in 2010 they mucked about with the MCG pitch (how did that work out guys?).

Both sides have good pace atacks, but fragile batting. Thats why the games were short. That they couldnt even managed 5 days on a supposedly dull, slow, boring track at Cardiff sums it up.
To be fair as well very little time over the series was lost to rain, and pitches in England are generlaly tailored to try and get results allowing for at least half a day to be lost. A lot has changed their since " I was a lad" when we reguallrly used to see draws not just becauise of the way teams batted and bowled but also because it just rained more and grounds were much slower to clear and dry. Floodlights help on that too.

If the administartors were really being greedy and deciding what the picthes would be then we wouldve seen much duller surfaces tailored for five days and maybe the batting line ups might just have managed to stretch to something close to a draw to save them having to refund so many tickets.

I guess the pitch is always wrong.

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by VTR on Wed 26 Aug 2015, 10:42 am

Cardiff - doctored to negate Aussie pace attack and suit England pace attack who are best suited to bowling on slow pitches (England win)

Lords - a good cricket wicket (Aussie Win)

Edgbaston - doctored to suit the England pace attack who in 2 weeks transformed themselves from excelling on Cardiff-type slow wickets to actually being better on fast seaming wickets (England win)

Trent Bridge - doctored atmospheric conditions to make ball swing like it does every year there. Conditions were doctored to suit swing bowlers like Jimmy Anderson even though he wasn't playing (England win)

The Oval - a good cricket wicket (Aussies win)

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by wisden on Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:54 pm

post mine later Wink

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 8:39 am

VTR wrote:Cardiff - doctored to negate Aussie pace attack and suit England pace attack who are best suited to bowling on slow pitches (England win)

Lords - a good cricket wicket (Aussie Win)

Edgbaston - doctored to suit the England pace attack who in 2 weeks transformed themselves from excelling on Cardiff-type slow wickets to actually being better on fast seaming wickets (England win)

Trent Bridge - doctored atmospheric conditions to make ball swing like it does every year there. Conditions were doctored to suit swing bowlers like Jimmy Anderson even though he wasn't playing (England win)

The Oval - a good cricket wicket (Aussies win)

Or

Cardiff - Doctored to produce uneven bounce to make the game a lottery and negate Englands technically superior batting

Lords - Doctored to produce a typically flat wicket to cover for Austrlias lack of batting depth

Edgbaston - Doctored to suit Austrlias seam heavy attack

Trent Bridge - Doctored to suit Siddle and Mitchell Marsh Doh

The Oval - Game thrown just to calm Kingraf down about the world rankings



The ECB are the true gents of the game. They even let Aus win 5-0 at home.

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by kingraf on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 9:04 am

I thought the Ashes was bad. the Pakistan series in UAE might make me lose my mind. The rankings have no home/away variability. The last 3-0 series fell away a few months ago. And yet, Pakistan, ranked fourth need to win 3-0 to not lose any points against England, ranked third. Talk about trying my patience.
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by VTR on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 10:04 am

kingraf wrote:I thought the Ashes was bad. the Pakistan series in UAE might make me lose my mind. The rankings have no home/away variability. The last 3-0 series fell away a few months ago. And yet, Pakistan, ranked fourth need to win 3-0 to not lose any points against England, ranked third. Talk about trying my patience.

Best not to worry too much about individual positions - if the third team is one or two points ahead of the next, just say they are even.

Anyway, if you want to get a bit more mad this morning have a read of the SA/Dale Steyn paragraph in this article!

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/912717.html





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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 10:24 am

I like the logic .. Australia are rubbish away from home because they dont play enough cricket away, SA are good away from home because they dont play much cricket at all.

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by VTR on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 10:42 am

Exactly - its a challenge for the ECB and other boards. How to get your team simultaneously playing both more and less cricket...

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by kingraf on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 10:43 am

Can't fault the logic, given how well Bangladesh do on their rare excursions
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by VTR on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 10:59 am

kingraf wrote:Can't fault the logic, given how well Bangladesh do on their rare excursions

I can only assume they aren't in the stats of that article so its not too heavily skewed by the regular trouncings dished out by their fresh 95mph pacemen when they do tour!

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 11:07 am

Theres nothing stopping SA hosting a 5 test series against them other than their own boards.

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by kingraf on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 1:49 pm

I think the lack of FC matches is a huge thing. And when they do play FC, the host nations tend to dish out some questionable teams. Guys like Mitchell Marsh suddenly look like the second coming of Adam Gilchrist, and you know the system is kooked.

T20 isn't too blame, directly. But the reality is no one is turning down a $200k contract to play County... and as Mystiroakey made very clear a while back... no English cricketer is gonna spend a summer (well, your winter) in SA or Aus for $30k when they can spend time with their family for Christmas. Apparently career progression isn't worth a paid vacation. Bet Michael Carberry feels different about that now
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by wisden on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 4:03 pm

MY RATINGS

ENGLAND

Adam Lyth - 3 (time for another opener)
Alistair Cook - 7 (solid yet unspetactular, captained well)
Gary Ballance - 5 (painful viewing, one half century to his name in the series)
Ian Bell - 5 (didn't look great until went up to 3)
Joe Root - 10 (fantastic series for the future england captain, also chipped in with few wickets)
Ben Stokes - 9 (bowled well, and should have had more wickets...batted reasonably well as well)
Jos Buttler - 7 (marks mainly for keeping, his batting was awful)
Moeen Ali - 8 (batted really well, and took quite a few wickets)
Stuart Broad - 8 (bowled well in Anderson'ss absence, led the attack well)
Jonny Bairstow - 6 (not convinced by him at international level..too many obvious flaws..)
James Anderson - 9 (bowled really well until injury struck)
Mark Wood - 7 (solid yet unspectualar...england's new night-watchman)
Steve Finn - 9 (impressive... good to see him back)

AUSTRALIA

Chris Rogers - 10 (will be sorely missed at the top of the order)
David Warner - 9
Steve Smith - 10
Michael Clarke - 4 (chose the right time to go)
Adam Voges- 6 (will be stunned if he plays another test)
Shane Watson - 3 (move on)
Brad Haddin - 3 (think his test career is over)
Mitchell Johnson - 7
Mitchell Starc - 8
Josh Hazelwood - 8
Nathan Lyon - 9
Mitch Marsh - 6
Peter Nevill - 6
Shaun Marsh - 1
Peter Siddle - 8

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by Stella on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 4:39 pm

Your normal high marks mr cricketfan Very Happy
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by Duty281 on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 4:41 pm

Why are Anderson and Finn higher than Broad? Why's Warner got a 9? Why the hell has Stokes got a 9?

Are the ratings out of 20, like Football Manager?

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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by kingraf on Fri 28 Aug 2015, 1:25 pm

The hell kind of ratings are those?
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Re: Ashes Player ratings

Post by VTR on Fri 28 Aug 2015, 6:34 pm

Surely lyth deserves at least an 8 on the scale of those ratings

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