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Post by raycastleunited on Wed 02 Sep 2015, 2:33 pm

There hasn't been an equipment discussion on here for a long time, so time for an old favourite. I recently bought some new irons from a frend of a friend, barely used Mizuno JPX 825 pro's (4 - PW), and I think I should get some new wedges to go with them. Currently I have Taylormade RAC 54 degree and RAC black 60 degree (bent to 58) wedges, and they are both 10 years old now.

Wedges are all about feel and so can be a very personal thing, but I would be interested to get all your thoughts on things like:
- bounce, particularly why you would want lots of bounce (say more than 12 deg)
- sole grinds, I have no idea how this helps
- advantages of different finishes e.g. black, satin, chrome, oil, rust etc.
- different brands and technology claims, in particular re grooves, and do they make a difference

I'm thinking about getting Mizuno MP-T5 54 and 58 deg wedges, as they seem to match the JPX pro's nicely but I'm not adverse to other brands / styles.

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Post by SmithersJones on Wed 02 Sep 2015, 3:03 pm

I've only ever used Vokeys - I've got a 52/10, a 56/12 and a 60/8. I'm on my second set, the first were chrome and these are satin - I definitely prefer the satin. My only criticism is they can scuff soft balls quite easily, especially out of sand.
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Post by McLaren on Wed 02 Sep 2015, 3:03 pm

Are the JPX pro's forged?


When it comes to wedges i like a really streamlined looking club, especially the top edge, which should look very thin when looking down at address. I was shocked to see that even the Vokeys and clevelands are flabby and clumsy looking as well these days.


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Post by super_realist on Wed 02 Sep 2015, 3:33 pm

I change my wedges every couple of seasons. I find they wear out pretty fast. I'd always been a Cleveland advocate with a 52 and 58.

Moved to Mizuno MP -T4 this year, slightly different bounce on the same degree of loft and they seem pretty good to me. Haven't noticed my chipping (which is my strength) get any worse for it.

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Post by raycastleunited on Wed 02 Sep 2015, 3:45 pm

McLaren wrote:Are the JPX pro's forged?

Yes

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Post by raycastleunited on Wed 02 Sep 2015, 3:48 pm

Super,

Do you notice a big difference in your wedges after a couple of years? Are you changing because the grooves lose sharpness, or other reasons? Have you tried sharpening the grooves?

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Post by super_realist on Wed 02 Sep 2015, 4:24 pm

I don't like sharpening the grooves, it always seems like a poor remedy to me and never seems to work very well for me.

I practice chipping a lot, and unfortunately I'm forced to play a lot of chips on course. Furthermore I play at sandy courses so premature wear is part of the game I'm afraid.

There's probably a bit of vanity in there too. I don't like them being all battered and worn and with a ball shaped mark in the face.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 02 Sep 2015, 6:35 pm

raycastleunited wrote:...Wedges are all about feel and so can be a very personal thing, but I would be interested to get all your thoughts on things like:
- bounce, particularly why you would want lots of bounce (say more than 12 deg)
- sole grinds, I have no idea how this helps
- advantages of different finishes e.g. black, satin, chrome, oil, rust etc.
- different brands and technology claims, in particular re grooves, and do they make a difference...
Bounce
Personal to a large degree. I don't like large bounce wedges. I find they bounce too much for me out of sand, no matter how fluffy it is, and I trust my ball striking to be good enough off tight lies. I don't like the raised leading edge large bounce angles give when chipping and I don't have a huge shaft lean to negate that.
You'll want to experiment a bit with bounce vs. your technique to see what fits best for you.

Grinds
Never found it makes that much difference at all. The one I have tried is a heel grind to allow me to flay the face wide open without raising the leading edge. Didn't help that much though.

Finishes
Makes no difference to me. Satin looks pretty but scratches ruin it. Never found sunlight reflection off polished chrome to be a problem really. Oilcan/rust - meh!

Grooves
Stuff and nonsense in most cases. Pretty much all modern wedges are good and comparable. I don't really buy the fuss about wear and tear either - doesn't make much difference but sounds good to the OEMs who can get you to buy more stuff. All about the contact at impact pretty much.

I currently have a Vokey 252-08 and 256-10 and can't see myself changing anytime too. Bought a secondhand spare set as well.
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Post by George1507 on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 10:00 am

I clear out the grooves on my old wedges periodically, and sharpen them once a year. They seem to work fine, although they do look pretty battered these days. The ball still stops pretty quickly on the green. I've compared them to Vokeys and Clevelands, but those were no better, and I didn't feel as confident with them, so I haven't changed.

Now, I know this will cause a lot of sniggering, but my wedges are Tom Watson Ram wedges from the 1980s.

Cue gales of laughter.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 10:34 am

george

If the look anything like this, then tell me where I can get some?

Tom Watson Ram Wedge:
Wedges 00077513__1
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Post by beninho on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 10:40 am

When i brought my set a couple of years back, I got cleveland Cg15 or something like that. I have never been good with wedge shots or bunker shots, but these have been great, and actually made me better! They are black pearl, which looks pretty good, even when the black starts becoming silver. Each to their own and all that and whats good for me, may not suit everyone though.

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Post by George1507 on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 1:02 pm

Mac,

Yes, I have a 60 degree wedge just the same as that. I also have the 55 degree, and 50 degree wedges as well. The 55 degree is 8 degree bounce only, really good for nipping it off tight lies around the green.

I don't know where you can get them these days. I occasionally see them in second hand bins in some pro shops, and there are a few popping up on ebay every now and again. I heard someone managed to buy a couple of new ones last year, I assume they must have been sitting in a warehouse somewhere for 30 years.

Ram wedges were massively popular back in the 1980s, so there were a lot made, so still quite a lot of second hand ones kicking around. Sadly a lot of them look like they've had very hard lives, but if you can find a better one, there are a few club restorers who will make them look pretty shiny and new again if you want them to look that way.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 1:42 pm

HERE are some Mac, extra special in gold. But you will have to collect.

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Post by George1507 on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 1:52 pm

Blimey, you'd better be able to play if you have those in your bag.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:00 pm

Super claims to be a master wedge player so I think they would be more suited for him.

I will keep an eye out on ebay for some regular versions. I would quite like a new gap wedge so might make it a Tom Watson ram.
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Post by super_realist on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:03 pm

I wouldn't have anything gold Mac, it's the worst colour going. Something I'd expect to see in a Footballers mansion.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:08 pm

Do you know what else you would expect to see in a footballers mansion?
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Post by super_realist on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:15 pm

A lack of taste? No books? Vulgar car parked outside?

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Post by McLaren on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:18 pm

No, a smorgasbord of pretty ladies. So maybe you should get some gold super. BOOM, and accompanied finger crack.
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Post by super_realist on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:21 pm

I can't deny they are superficially pretty in a media declared way, but the brassy, gold digging tarty "princess" type of your average footballer isn't my style.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:23 pm

Super

You can't claim to have a type for something which numbers zero. I don't know how much you remember of high school science but 0 never has units.
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Post by super_realist on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:26 pm

Mac, My current drought doesn't exclude having a preference.

Why are you so full of Americanisms these days? Last week it was "trunk", now it's "high school".


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Post by McLaren on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:27 pm

WTF do you call "high School"?
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Post by super_realist on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:28 pm

Secondary School. The proper name for it. I suppose you call Primary School some hackneyed American name too?

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Post by McLaren on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:34 pm

Super

Must be a generational thing, my peers also refer to it as high school.


What measures have you taken recently to try and end your drought? Have you thought about plundering the new pool of freshers?
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Post by super_realist on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:39 pm

No Mac, I'm way too old for them.

I was in Denmark again the other week though and the base line is about 100 miles above the UK baseline.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 3:44 pm

If there is grass on the wicket...
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Post by MustPuttBetter on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 4:23 pm

On the subject of Super's drought....

Has anybody tried the MD Seve Icon wedges? I'm basing this on absolutely no experience of them but they look cool
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Post by raycastleunited on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 4:56 pm

McLaren wrote:If there is grass on the wicket...

There often isn't these days. Seems to be a tanning shop / waxing salon on every street corner.

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Post by raycastleunited on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 4:58 pm

Anyway Mac, if I recall you seem to prefer bare lies, especially on teenage wizards. Low bounce preferable?

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 10:26 pm

George1507 wrote:....Now, I know this will cause a lot of sniggering, but my wedges are Tom Watson Ram wedges from the 1980s.

Cue gales of laughter.
Laughter? Not from this quarter! They were great wedges - still have my PW & SW but they're so battered I had to relegate them to the garage a while ago.
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Post by BlueCoverman on Thu 03 Sep 2015, 10:32 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
McLaren wrote:If there is grass on the wicket...

There often isn't these days. Seems to be a tanning shop / waxing salon on every street corner.

Me and Mrs Blue wandered onto a 'quiet' beach in Mykonos whilst on holiday last week and there wasn't a blade of grass to be seen...on female or male!

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Post by George1507 on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 8:25 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
George1507 wrote:....Now, I know this will cause a lot of sniggering, but my wedges are Tom Watson Ram wedges from the 1980s.

Cue gales of laughter.
Laughter? Not from this quarter! They were great wedges - still have my PW & SW but they're so battered I had to relegate them to the garage a while ago.


McLaren might buy them off you.

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Post by raycastleunited on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 11:41 am

BlueCoverman wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:
McLaren wrote:If there is grass on the wicket...

There often isn't these days. Seems to be a tanning shop / waxing salon on every street corner.

Me and Mrs Blue wandered onto a 'quiet' beach in Mykonos whilst on holiday last week and there wasn't a blade of grass to be seen...on female or male!

And you are including yourself in that statement? mo1

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Post by raycastleunited on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 11:49 am

Got the Mizuno 54/12 last night. I had borrowed a demo club from the pro shop previously so know it feels nice. Only £65 on ebay brand new - bargain!

Need a lob wedge now. Not sure whether to go 58 or 60 degrees. Definitely want a low bounce wedge for tight lies, especially as the 54 has 12 degrees of bounce which is quite a lot.

Some interesting contributions from you guys, especially navy. Thanks.

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Post by super_realist on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 11:56 am

I've always found 60 way too much. A 58 for me is perfect for flop shots and bunkers. My 52 suffices for all other shots.

One of the thing I laugh at when I see people chipping with a serious loft is it's needless. WHy make the path twice as long by putting it miles in the air when you can play the shot virtually flat and straight

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Post by raycastleunited on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 12:25 pm

super_realist wrote:
One of the thing I laugh at when I see people chipping with a serious loft is it's needless. WHy make the path twice as long by putting it miles in the air when you can play the shot virtually flat and straight

Very much agree super. Sometimes I see people playing a flop shot or trying an aggressive spinning shot from the fringe when the ball is a foot off the green and perfectly puttable. I guess whatever works for the individual.

The need for higher lofts depends on the type of courses you play. Not really necessary for links. My course has some tricky slopes where you need loft if you short side yourself (think Augusta). Also very useful if you go to Spain / Florida etc where the greens are soft and surrounded by lush rough.

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Post by BlueCoverman on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 1:32 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
BlueCoverman wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:
McLaren wrote:If there is grass on the wicket...

There often isn't these days. Seems to be a tanning shop / waxing salon on every street corner.

Me and Mrs Blue wandered onto a 'quiet' beach in Mykonos whilst on holiday last week and there wasn't a blade of grass to be seen...on female or male!

And you are including yourself in that statement? mo1

Nope just Mrs Blue!

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Post by McLaren on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 1:39 pm

I am not sure why the prepubescent look has become so popular but I actually quite like the vintage porn as the woman are not shaved within an inch of their life.
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Post by super_realist on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 1:42 pm

Opened your doors to any migrants yet Mac?

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Post by MustPuttBetter on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 1:43 pm

Can you be shaved within an inch of your life? I'm not sure shaving is that dangerous

Anyone ever tried a Miura wedge? They're not as expensive as I expected. Circa £160 from the suppliers in the UK
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 3:49 pm

MustPuttBetter wrote:...Anyone ever tried a Miura wedge? They're not as expensive as I expected. Circa £160 from the suppliers in the UK
Pretty but better than, say, a Cleveland/Vokey? I seriously doubt it.
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Post by McLaren on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 4:01 pm

https://www.scottsdalegolf.co.uk/search/?query=miura


Navy

The placebo effect invoked by a golf clubs looks should not be dismissed.
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Post by MustPuttBetter on Fri 04 Sep 2015, 4:10 pm

You think Navy? I thought Miura had a reputation as excellent clubs and have even read (probably nonsense) conspiracy theories about pros using Miura clubs just branded up with the appropriate sponsor
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 11 Sep 2015, 5:00 pm

McLaren wrote:...The placebo effect invoked by a golf clubs looks should not be dismissed.
Very true!

MustPuttBetter wrote:You think Navy? I thought Miura had a reputation as excellent clubs and have even read (probably nonsense) conspiracy theories about pros using Miura clubs just branded up with the appropriate sponsor
They do. They're excellent. Is it a coincidence though that those who make their livelihoods from the game don't uniformly play Miura? I doubt it. Think I'm right that Vokey wedges are way out front in terms of Tour use. Do Miuras deliver enhanced functionality worth that daft premium for the 'Miura' name? Me, I seriously doubt it.

Interesting link on spin generation with wedges:

http://www.golfwrx.com/324662/the-science-of-adding-spin-to-your-wedge-shots/
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Post by super_realist on Fri 11 Sep 2015, 5:49 pm

McLaren wrote:https://www.scottsdalegolf.co.uk/search/?query=miura


Navy

The placebo effect invoked by a golf clubs looks should not be dismissed.

Thought you didn't believe in psychology Mac?

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Post by MustPuttBetter on Fri 11 Sep 2015, 5:50 pm

I've no doubt you're right Navy. There's probably little difference, especially at my level.  
But if some of what is written is to be believed maybe they are all universally playing Miura, it just has a Titleist etc stamp on it....
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Post by super_realist on Fri 11 Sep 2015, 6:58 pm

I've heard that rumour a few times, and for every time I've also heard companies deny it. Obviously they would, but I think it unlikely that only one small forging house in Japan is capable of producing tour standard clubs.


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Post by MustPuttBetter on Fri 11 Sep 2015, 10:14 pm

I did read an article once that had pics of Luke Donald in a bunker and the Mizuno wedge he was meant to using and that the club had the logos etc on looked nothing like the actual model of club. At best it was a bit odd, at worst a different club stamped up accordingly
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Post by SmithersJones on Fri 11 Sep 2015, 11:05 pm

You get so many 'In The Bag' photos now that this seems highly improbable.
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