The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

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The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by KP_fan on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 10:11 am

Clarke alluded to the designer ( doctored) pitches.....Steve, Waugh, Ponting and Holding have backed "doing away with the toss"

I have been saying the same for a long time.......while doing pitches as they like is the home team's prerogative.....toss is a huge variable...almost a gamble on pitches that crack up and turn with variable bounce on D4/D5....or ones that are green seaming on D1.

we can't change the behavior of the pitches...but surely bring an element of evenness by taking out the toss mystery.

so what's the solution?...one of two options....

--the visiting captain get to make the choice in 1st 3rd and 5th tests.....to bat first or bow....and the home captain in 2nd & 4th test

OR
--visiting captain gets to make the choice in EVERY test


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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by msp83 on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 11:49 am

How about ODIs? How about neutral grounds?

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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 12:01 pm

msp83 wrote:How about ODIs? How about neutral grounds?

How about adding the air fare and travelling time to the cost for an England supporter watching his side in every ODI? Shocked

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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by msp83 on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 12:05 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
msp83 wrote:How about ODIs? How about neutral grounds?

How about adding the air fare and travelling time to the cost for an England supporter watching his side in every ODI? Shocked
Considering the usual suffering involved in watching England play limited overs, that is not unreasonable at all!

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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 12:22 pm

msp83 wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
msp83 wrote:How about ODIs? How about neutral grounds?

How about adding the air fare and travelling time to the cost for an England supporter watching his side in every ODI? Shocked
Considering the usual suffering involved in watching England play limited overs, that is not unreasonable at all!

Laugh That's almost as funny as your first post.

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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by KP_fan on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 3:58 pm

in near future Eng will play in UAE...against Babar, Yasser shah and Hafiz ( or maybe shoaib malik)

If Eng win the toss, they will avoid  batting 4th ...and have some chance of winning.....say 30%

if they lose the the toss.....its game over...no chance of winning on those pitches
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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by alfie on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 4:07 pm

Solution to a non-existent problem...

Losing touring teams often grumble about pitches. Sadly , (some) Australians are becoming rather good at this.

What is a "doctored" pitch anyway ? All pitches are prepared by groundsmen , presumably with the intention of enabling two teams to play up to five days with a realistic prospect of producing a result...it is as much art as science ; and very difficult to be certain exactly what the result of that preparation will be : the weather has a lot more influence than some conspiracy theorists will allow.
All pitches also exhibit regional characteristics , to a certain degree. It would be unreasonable to expect a fast bouncy surface in Cardiff ...or a slow turner in Perth. True , attempts can be made to modify things ; but as I already said , the results of any such intervention are not entirely predictable. I am sure the Trent Bridge groundsman , last year , didn't intend to produce a pitch on which the tailenders of both India and England could bat for hours with impunity in a bore draw . If he went a bit too far the other way this time , so what ? Isn't that an argument for having a toss after all ?

I didn't hear Australia complaining in 2009 at Headingley when they shot England out for just over 100 on the first morning...

Swings and roundabouts. And as it happens , both captains made one bad call at the toss in this series , and duly lost the matches. And in each case , the loss was primarily due less to the toss than to the better performance of their opponents with bat and ball.

A real non issue for me. Toss has been around ever since cricket started and will continue into the future.

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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 4:22 pm

alfie wrote:Solution to a non-existent problem...
...

A real non issue for me.  Toss has been around ever since cricket started and will continue into the future.

Hi Alfie - totally agree. I would have left well alone but for msp's first post which I'm unsure whether was intended as a joke or not.

[PS Alfie - any views on the Stokes dismissal on the other thread? On the one hand, I'm reluctant to ask as it's already taken on more significance than it merits (England mucked up in more ways than one and that is more concerning) but, on the other, you regularly read the game well and so your take would be interesting. Cheers.]

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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by msp83 on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 4:37 pm

Well, I really don't understand why the Australians are bringing up this now! Not much of an issue for me really. Would bring in unnecessary complications. My original post was only half in jest, Guildford!
And as for pitches, I have absolutely no issue if home sides produce pitches that would be more oriented towards their bowling strength. So long as they produce result, I wouldn't complain if the pitches in India spin when England or Australia come around and if they can't put bat to ball, or when our boys go there and get shot out on day one on a green top.
I don't like the self-righteousness on the topic though!

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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by kingraf on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 5:12 pm

I didn't realise that there was a debate. Can't play cricket without a toss. Sure, it can at times reduce the game to a lottery, but I don't think you can actually play the game without a toss. No surprise Holding agrees. More than once Viv went to a toss with a rather laissez faire, "we'll do what you wanna do" attitude. Easy enough when the opposition have to choose between facing the West Indian attack on D1 with seam and bounce around, or day five, with a wearing pitch
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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by Duty281 on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 6:34 pm

KP_fan wrote:if they lose the the toss.....its game over...no chance of winning on those pitches

That's rubbish, KP_fan, and you know it is!

And as to the actual question, my answer would be to preserve the flip of the coin at the start of the game.

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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by KP_fan on Sun 06 Sep 2015, 7:21 pm

Hmm.....is this really rubbish ?

last time Eng won a series on spinning pitches.......there were 3 guys who scored a lot of runs.....Cook, Trott, KP.....two of them are gone...

and the two guys who picked all the wickets...Swann and Monty...were a class apart compared to those who play as spinners for Eng now.

even winning the toss, it may not be easy with the current availbale resources......losing the toss..little chance Sad
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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:38 pm

Have to laugh at the Aussies moaning about doctor ed green tops when they are quoted last year as asking for them.
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Re: The " Do Away with the Toss" Debate

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 11 Sep 2015, 8:10 am

KP_fan wrote:Hmm.....is this really rubbish ?

last time Eng won a series on spinning pitches.......there were 3 guys who scored a lot of runs.....Cook, Trott, KP.....two of them are gone...
(

True, they got rid of the toss er

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