Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem?

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Post by Alistair on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:05 am

It's Day 4 of Jeremy Corbyn's reign as Labour Leader and he's constantly facing questions around his leadership, policies and actions.

Yesterday, whilst attending the 'Battle of Britain' remembrance service, Corbyn stood silently whilst the National Anthem was sung. Corbyn is a firm believer in abolition of the Monarch and chose not to sing.

Was he right? Should he have sung out of respect for the Queen or is he right to stick to his beliefs?

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Post by McLaren on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:42 am

He has clearly stated he is a republican and this was known while people were voting for him.  By not singing the national anthem he has not mislead anyone and only behaved in a manner that was expected given his stated position on the royals.

He made no gesture of disrespect and chose to silently reflect on those that gave their lives for our freedom.  It would be better for the media to do its job and actually investigate what Corbyn thinks about war dead instead of inferring it from whether or not he chooses to sing a song about an unelected head of state.


David Cameron has and will continue to cut the benefits available to those who have been disabled in war, would singing god save the queen excuse Camerons cruel treatment of those disabled in war?



PS

This links to something the left do to those on the right.  Those on the left are prone to saying things like "they hate women" because the right oppose abortion or "the right hate the poor" etc.  This is making an unfounded claim about peoples opinions, intentions and thoughts.

It is more correct to say "the policies they support will negatively impact women/the poor/minorities" etc.  If all you say is that what they support will have outcome X, you do not have to defend/prove the claim about the other persons intentions or beliefs.


So when people say Corbyn has shown disrespect by not singing the national anthem you are make a claim about his beliefs, which is pretty much unfounded.


Last edited by McLaren on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:43 am

I think he is perfectly entitled to remain quiet. I'm sure the politically correct brigade will hate it but I don't have a problem with people sticking to their principles. Perhaps he is an atheist and doesn't want to sing the 'God' part either?

It really shouldn't be a big deal. It doesn't mean he is being disrespectful of the Queen or fallen soldiers. If anything, he is exercising his right to hold a principle of free choice which is something those fallen soldiers died for.

My old nan used to say to me, "if you stand for nothing, you'll fall for everything".

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Post by ShahenshahG on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:01 am

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:I think he is perfectly entitled to remain quiet.  I'm sure the politically correct brigade will hate it but I don't have a problem with people sticking to their principles.  Perhaps he is an atheist and doesn't want to sing the 'God' part either?

It really shouldn't be a big deal.  It doesn't mean he is being disrespectful of the Queen or fallen soldiers.  If anything, he is exercising his right to hold a principle of free choice which is something those fallen soldiers died for.

My old nan used to say to me, "if you stand for nothing, you'll fall for everything".

Must have known one of yours would take after her.

Agreed with tinos post. Everyone loves to point out how these people died for our freedoms then form a mob against someone they don't like when they exercise those freedoms. He chose a different gesture of respect one in keeping with his beliefs. Fair enough I say.

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Post by Stella on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:23 am

He has a right not to. Mountain out of molehill, springs to mind.
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Post by Lowlandbrit on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:27 am

McLaren wrote:He has clearly stated he is a republican and this was known while people were voting for him.  By not singing the national anthem he has not mislead anyone and only behaved in a manner that was expected given his stated position on the royals.
Agree with this, but it's symbolic for the harsh reality; when you tear up the established rulebook the main thing that usually happens is that you find out how those rules came about in the first place. The problem with being 'authentic' and/or just like a 'normal person' is that most people don't actually particularly like most other authentic normal people.

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Post by Rowley on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:33 am

He is in a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Am fairly sure had he sung the press would have dug out some old footage where he did not sing in a similar situation and called him on the inconsistency. He attended the rememberence service, by doing so he is showing respect for the fallen, not sure what difference singing a song, the contents of which he fundamentally disagrees with matters.

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Post by gw on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:38 am

Alistair wrote:It's Day 4 of Jeremy Corbyn's reign as Labour
I'm sick to death of him already

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Post by Stella on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:40 am

Rowley wrote:He is in a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Am fairly sure had he sung the press would have dug out some old footage where he did not sing in a similar situation and called him on the inconsistency. He attended the rememberence service, by doing so he is showing respect for the fallen, not sure what difference singing a song, the contents of which he fundamentally disagrees with matters.

OK
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Post by Alistair on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:42 am

I'm quite looking forward to PMQ's for the first time.......ever.

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Post by Scottrf on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:56 am

The issue isn't really whether he sang the anthem, it's that he's politically naive. This was always going to be a huge issue, and it will be hard for some people to elect a leader who wont sing the anthem.

I respect his principle, but it doesn't do too much good if you wont get elected.

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Post by Stella on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:04 am

Scottrf wrote:The issue isn't really whether he sang the anthem, it's that he's politically naive. This was always going to be a huge issue, and it will be hard for some people to elect a leader who wont sing the anthem.

I respect his principle, but it doesn't do too much good if you wont get elected.

Or it may work the other way. Here we have a man who won't be dictated to.
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Post by Scottrf on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:06 am

Stella wrote:Or it may work the other way. Here we have a man who won't be dictated to.
Maybe. But wont get elected. He gives them a 'anti-British' angle. It's similar to an American declaring that they aren't Christian. They couldn't be president.

We'll see. I just think he's going to keep giving the other parties ammo.

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Post by Alistair on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:13 am

Scottrf wrote:
Stella wrote:Or it may work the other way. Here we have a man who won't be dictated to.
Maybe. But wont get elected. He gives them a 'anti-British' angle. It's similar to an American declaring that they aren't Christian. They couldn't be president.

We'll see. I just think he's going to keep giving the other parties ammo.

It's not been mentioned in PMQ's.....yet.

He did say that his parents took part in the war and he chose to silently remember them, is that not fair enough?

He's coming across extremely well here by the way.

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Post by Scottrf on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:19 am

Alistair wrote:It's not been mentioned in PMQ's.....yet.

He did say that his parents took part in the war and he chose to silently remember them, is that not fair enough?

He's coming across extremely well here by the way.
I don't have a problem with it at all.

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Post by Rowley on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:21 am

He is a left wing Labour candidate, he is getting destroyed by the bulk of the press irrespective of what he does. Miliband was far less left wing than Corbyn got slaughtered for how he ate a bacon sarnie. Corbyn is not a guy the press or those occupying the middle ground is ever going to appeal to. His best bet is staying true to his beliefs and trying to rebuild the apathy in Labour's traditional areas of support.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:27 am

Agree with Rowley....Even the BBC are sticking the boot in...

I don't see why he has to sing If he doesn't want to..

Non story for me.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:30 am

Alistair wrote:

He's coming across extremely well here by the way.

We have it on the tv but the sound off and subtitles on. The subtitles were all about tigers and a rhino called Nancy?

Did I imagine that or am I having acid flashbacks?

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Scottrf on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:31 am

5 Live even did a phone in about it.

It's nice to hear about something other than ISIS or refugees.

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Post by Alistair on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:35 am

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Alistair wrote:

He's coming across extremely well here by the way.

We have it on the tv but the sound off and subtitles on.  The subtitles were all about tigers and a rhino called Nancy?

Did I imagine that or am I having acid flashbacks?

No.

Corbyn asked his 6 questions and came across well then it went to the backbenchers. The Tiger was to do with the Isle of Wight Zoo, and the PM mentioned that a Rhino at Cotswold Zoo was named after his daughter (Nancy) when he intervened to get around DEFRA laws.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:46 am

Are you Labour ?? Ali

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Post by Alistair on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:53 am

No, Trussman, I've been Lib Dem for the last 3 elections. However, my political vote is somewhat up in the air given the mauling we took in the GE and the fact that Clegg effectively sold his morals up the river to become DPM.

I like Corbyn, i find his demeanor refreshing and whilst not all his policies are ones I agree with, i'm certainly taking a more vested interest in Labour at the moment.

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:57 am

It has been announced that Corbyn will sing the anthem from now on

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Post by Alistair on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:59 am

wheelchair1991 wrote:It has been announced that Corbyn will sing the anthem from now on

Sort of, he said he will take part fully in these events.

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Post by Stella on Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:00 pm

Alistair wrote:
wheelchair1991 wrote:It has been announced that Corbyn will sing the anthem from now on

Sort of, he said he will take part fully in these events.

I'll take that, as he will sing. My opinion of him has gone down a little, if he does.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:01 pm

Libdem.....Geez what a joke..

We just got rid of our Libdem....I did anyway...My Wife was thinking of UKIP but preferred CSI instead....Rob preferred his playstation.

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Post by Scottrf on Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:04 pm

wheelchair1991 wrote:It has been announced that Corbyn will sing the anthem from now on
Sounds like I was right, he's a bit naive and inexperienced.

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Post by Alistair on Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:06 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Libdem.....Geez what a joke..

We just got rid of our Libdem....I did anyway...My Wife was thinking of UKIP but preferred CSI instead....Rob preferred his playstation.

Our Lib Dem Councillors were pretty indicative of where the party was heading. Old, out of touch and brow beaten. They came to my local one night and I was questioning them on Clegg's policies and where he had taken the party and none of them could offer a positive spin on the state of the party, or any hope for the election. I voted Lib Dem because at the time I couldn't vote Tory, wouldn't touch Labour under Milliband and i'm not UKIP.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:18 pm

I didn't like Ed either thought he was crap.. but I didn't want a spineless mp that didn't stand for anything....Coupled with the U turn on tuition fees and the bedroom tax..


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Post by Alistair on Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:21 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I didn't like Ed either thought he was crap..  but I didn't want a spineless mp that didn't stand for anything....Coupled with the U turn on tuition fees and the bedroom tax..

To be honest, Trussman, it was either that or don't vote, and at least if I vote i can feel like I have a right to whinge and moan about the state of the country.

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:21 pm

Alistair wrote:
wheelchair1991 wrote:It has been announced that Corbyn will sing the anthem from now on

Sort of, he said he will take part fully in these events.

A friend from Labour central office told he will certainly be singing the anthem from now on. Its been announced on the BBC as well

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:55 pm

Isn't it pathetic............So much going on in the Country and news corps are leading with this..

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Post by GSC on Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:14 pm

Its largely nonsense, though there is a part of me that thinks the a prospective prime minister candidate shouldn't need to be forced into singing the national anthem.
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Post by lfc91 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:18 pm

The national anthem can be a real sore point for many people across the UK. A friend of mine almost got beat up by several guys outside a local bar for not standing during the national anthem played at closing. Worst part was he was simply so drunk he hadn't noticed it was even playing! (as he is usually the type to drag others to their feet for it).

Back to the matter, I think he was right to stick to his principles. However if he has flip flopped on the issue based on public pressure I would be pretty dissapointed.


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Post by Alistair on Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:26 pm

I'd rather we sang Jerusalem.

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Post by Scottrf on Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:46 pm

lfc91 wrote:Back to the matter, I think he was right to stick to his principles. However if he has flip flopped on the issue based on public pressure I would be pretty dissapointed.

Yep, the worst of both worlds. And makes it seem like something he hadn't considered would cause a reaction rather than a conscious decision.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:56 pm

It was disrespectful to the servicemen that died who were fighting for God/the Queen/their Country and provided the liberal freedoms which Corbyn enjoys so much today.

That said, he's an agnostic republican, therefore was it really much of a surprise and is it just good ol' "principalled" Jezza Corbs again....

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:01 pm

Alistair wrote:I'd rather we sang Jerusalem.

Ditto.

And I say that as a royalist, of sorts, it's just such a bloody awful anthem! Jerusalem at the Olympic opening ceremony on the other hand drew a tear to the eye......

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:01 pm

Corbyn's non-singing was naive. Fair enough - he doesn't believe in the Monarchy but the Queen is formally the Head of State (like it or loath it) and she represents the country as far as I can tell. It's the National Anthem at the moment - not singing it was chopping his nose off to spite his face, pretty much.
He would have been better to have campaigned for a change, within Government, to the entity that's our Head of State - not that I think many have appetites for even more elections a la the U.S.A. etc.
Truly pathetic though, the amount of media hoopla that's been devoted to this non-story.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:04 pm

Alistair wrote:I'd rather we sang Jerusalem.
Not I, I'm afraid. It still has too many religious connotations, for all it's a decent tune.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:24 pm

Rowley wrote:He is a left wing Labour candidate, he is getting destroyed by the bulk of the press irrespective of what he does. Miliband was far less left wing than Corbyn got slaughtered for how he ate a bacon sarnie. Corbyn is not a guy the press or those occupying the middle ground is ever going to appeal to. His best bet is staying true to his beliefs and trying to rebuild the apathy in Labour's traditional areas of support.

Bye bye 2020 then.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:36 pm

Cameron screws up. Some Greens, SNP and UKIP supporters come back he could stop a Tory majority....

20,000 new Labour members since Saturday...

No one can predict the future.....

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Post by Rowley on Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:40 pm

Also nobody at this point can predict what is likely to happen in Scotland between then and now. Agree a Corbyn victory looks unlikely but way too early to call with any certainty.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:05 pm

Were he to be voted into power, would he not have to face the Queen for that ceremonial approval I forget the name of? It might be wholly ceremonial but an interesting situation

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:10 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:It was disrespectful to the servicemen that died who were fighting for God/the Queen/their Country and provided the liberal freedoms which Corbyn enjoys so much today.

That said, he's an agnostic republican, therefore was it really much of a surprise and is it just good ol' "principalled" Jezza Corbs again....

Just in case anyone is in any doubt, if Corbyn had sung the national anthem with gusto, TopHat would have posted something like this:-

TopHat24/7 wrote: Ha!  Look at Corbyn singing the national anthem.  I thought he was an agnostic republican, lol.  Principles?  That man wouldn't know a principle if it was served up in a sandwich.  I'm surprised he can stand up with such a floppy backbone.

#bloodycommiebastards

Anyway, I am done with this thread.  606v2 is run by a New World Order of Bilderbergers, socialists, Jews and refugees economic migrants. Now where has ONEBALL gone with my tin foil hat?

Mind the windows Tino.
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Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem? Empty Re: Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem?

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:23 am

If you want to Prime Minister of the UK, you sing the national anthem and stop acting like a class A clown, had enough of this idiot already.

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Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem? Empty Re: Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem?

Post by superflyweight on Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:36 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If you want to Prime Minister of the UK, you sing the national anthem and stop acting like a class A clown, had enough of this idiot already.

I know the feeling.

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Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem? Empty Re: Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem?

Post by Alistair on Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:38 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Were he to be voted into power, would he not have to face the Queen for that ceremonial approval I forget the name of? It might be wholly ceremonial but an interesting situation

He's stated in an interview with the BBC that he would have to decide whether he would join the Privy Council, where party leaders kneel before Madge.

He's also stated Labour won't back a 'Brexit' so that should clarify the situation for a few of his doubters. I also like the fact that he's said that policies are up for discussion but he will have the final decision.

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Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem? Empty Re: Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem?

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:47 am

If he's such a principled man he should refuse to acknowledge terms like Brexit.

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Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem? Empty Re: Corbyn: Was he right NOT to sing the National Anthem?

Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:36 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:It was disrespectful to the servicemen that died who were fighting for God/the Queen/their Country and provided the liberal freedoms which Corbyn enjoys so much today.

That said, he's an agnostic republican, therefore was it really much of a surprise and is it just good ol' "principalled" Jezza Corbs again....

Nonsense.

How can you talk about liberal freedoms when you see fit to tell the man what he must do? "They died for your freedoms - how dare you now act according to your conscience." It doesn't work that way.

How many servicemen fought for God or the Queen? Bearing in mind the Queen wasn't on the throne during the Battle of Britain, I'd suggest not many fought for her.

And what about Scottish servicemen who died? Would Corbyn have been honouring their sacrifice in singing an anthem that talks of crushing rebellious Scots?

Let's face it, God Save the Queen, aside from being a dirge, is an anthem expressing nothing but a love of subjugation.

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