Honesty is not always the best policy

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 6:56 pm

As many of you know I am in a wheelchair(clue in the username). I have Cerebral Palsy so therefore i am a wheelchair user. I have done lots of work for the Labour Party and will continue to do so. However i have bern applying for jobs lately and always have been honest on the application and clicked the yes box when they ask 'do you have a disability'. However despite being educated and having lots of experience and qualifications i was not even getting an interview anywhere.

So i applied for the same jobs again using a different email address but still using my own CV. I did not say i had a disability this time. Guess what happened i got interviews from the same people that had rejected me before.

Just goes to show honesty is not always best.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 7:03 pm

It'd be interesting if you presented this evidence to companies. I'd also wonder whether there was a legal issue here?

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 7:08 pm

Can you not push this as a proper issue for you Wheely?

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 7:22 pm

Possibly, i am writing an article about the experience as we speak, its no wonder the unrmployment rate is double for the disabled compared to able bodied 'normal' people as IDS would say

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 7:49 pm

The problem is ...The equality act 2010 states that employers must make resonable adjustments both before and after the employment of a disabled employee.....Which means If they offer Wheelie an interview then they have to make adjustments to make sure Wheelie has proper access to the building and perhaps other changes to make sure the experience is appropriate....

Unless these are already in place then it's easier to just ignore Wheelies application..

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 8:54 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The problem is ...The equality act 2010 states that employers must make resonable adjustments both before and after the employment of a disabled employee.....Which means If they offer Wheelie an interview then they have to make adjustments to make sure Wheelie has proper access to the building and perhaps other changes to make sure the experience is appropriate....

Unless these are already in place then it's easier to just ignore Wheelies application..

Spot on, even those who a registered 'equal opportunities' employer only have to promise an interview if you are disabled but in practice it means little.

A friend of mine who runs a small company said he could not employ me even though i could easily do the work because it would cost him too much to do adjustments

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 9:07 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The problem is ...The equality act 2010 states that employers must make resonable adjustments both before and after the employment of a disabled employee.....Which means If they offer Wheelie an interview then they have to make adjustments to make sure Wheelie has proper access to the building and perhaps other changes to make sure the experience is appropriate....

Unless these are already in place then it's easier to just ignore Wheelies application..

Avoidance of feared inconvenience and/or expense may well be reason for discrimination against disabled people at recruitment stage in some cases. But I would imagine that in many other cases discrimination is more to do with attitudes - whether sub consciously or consciously held - about what a disabled person will be like as an employee.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 8:27 am

wheelchair1991 wrote:As many of you know I am in a wheelchair(clue in the username).  I have Cerebral Palsy so therefore i am a wheelchair user.  I have done lots of work for the Labour Party and will continue to do so.  However i have bern applying for jobs lately and always have been honest on the application and clicked the yes box when they ask 'do you have a disability'. However despite being educated and having lots of experience and qualifications i was not even getting an interview anywhere.

So i applied for the same jobs again using a different email address but still using my own CV.  I did not say i had a disability this time. Guess what happened i got interviews from the same people that had rejected me before.

Just goes to show honesty is not always best.
That's a shame. You could push that though, without a doubt, if you wanted. Depends if you want to spend the time and hassle doing it. They wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The problem is ...The equality act 2010 states that employers must make resonable adjustments both before and after the employment of a disabled employee.....Which means If they offer Wheelie an interview then they have to make adjustments to make sure Wheelie has proper access to the building and perhaps other changes to make sure the experience is appropriate....

Unless these are already in place then it's easier to just ignore Wheelies application..
They should already be in place. That's what 'reasonable adjustments' means. The Act is pretty clear that 'adjustments' should be anticipatory.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 8:53 am

Looks like a flagrant (and criminal?) breach of legislation, you should report it wheels (I'm assuming you don't state your disability therefore the potential employer cannot claim it renders you incapable of doing the applied for job [e.g. lifeguard]).

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 10:17 am

It's all to do with fear........I'm sure that these employers have nothing against Wheels...

I imagine what is going through their minds is...

1. Cost of hiring - Accomodating wheelie's needs etc..

2. Supervision/Loss of productivity - Will Wheelie need more attention ??...will there be productivity concessions by employing him..

3. How do we get rid ?? - If Wheels turns out to be a substandard employee will it be awkward firing him ???.....Rightly or wrongly Employers do regard people with disabilities as a "Protected" class....

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 11:25 am

I had an interview last year where the boss said i knew more about her company then she did and i still did not get the job

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 11:32 am

Maybe didn't like a know it all.....??

Just joking.

But it may not always be because of your disability. Everybody always likes to think they deserve/warrant the job they're applying for, but there may be a multitude of reasons why the employer ended up opting for someone else.

At least that's what I've told myself when missing out.....

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 11:39 am

Not a pop at you Toppy....But I wouldn't necessarily want to employ a slob.....If you don't care about your appearance are you going to give a crap about anything else ???...

Then again I'm not a slob and I don't give a crap most of the time..

Got a feeling things will workout okay for Wheels........Keep trying hard and you'll get a break....

You only need one break..


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Post by wheelchair1991 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 11:41 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:Maybe didn't like a know it all.....??

Just joking.

But it may not always be because of your disability.  Everybody always likes to think they deserve/warrant the job they're applying for, but there may be a multitude of reasons why the employer ended up opting for someone else.

At least that's what I've told myself when missing out.....

Your right its not all about the disability but it handicaps people and not just in a physical sense. There is no doubt its easier for companies not to employ disabled people largely for the reasons Truss has outlined earlier.
I wanted to believe it was because i was not simply qualified for certain jobs, but since doing this little experiment it has shown clearly that disabily puts an enourmous barrier in the way.
I only apply for jobs which i know i can do without supervision.

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Post by kingraf on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 12:10 pm

A blind mate I went to varsity with (I use that loosely as he was 2 years ahead of me and I only studied part time) is going through a similar problem. Has a degree in accounting, which is supposedly a scarce skill over here and can't find a job for love or money. He's certainly, generally better dressed than me as I can no longer be bothered to wear anything other than my Adidas sweat pants.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 12:16 pm

kingraf wrote:A blind mate I went to varsity with (I use that loosely as he was 2 years ahead of me and I only studied part time) is going through a similar problem. Has a degree in accounting, which is supposedly a scarce skill over here and can't find a job for love or money. He's certainly, generally better dressed than me as I can no longer be bothered to wear anything other than my Adidas sweat pants.

Like I said it comes down to disruption of the workplace.......Easier to ignore the problem..

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 12:44 pm

Removed the handbags. Keep it on topic please, this is a serious discussion that should be held in a sensitive manner. Thanks.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 12:46 pm

I haven't written anything inappropriate.........


Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ..)

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 12:49 pm

Please keep the discussion on topic. Trading personal jibes with TopHat is not on-topic. Thank you.

Wheelchair, have you thought about fully documenting your research and giving it to a newspaper to see if they'll publish your findings? If you've got hard evidence of active discrimination then I think the offenders should be named and shamed in public.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 12:50 pm

The Tories have made it harder to seek redress against Employers.......I'm aware they've moved the time you have to be employed by a company from one year to two in order to be eligible to go to a tribunal if you feel unfairly removed from your job..............They've also cut legal aid funding..........

Perhaps pursuing media opportunities is the best way to go but I'm not sure it's going to fix wheelie's problem.


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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 1:05 pm

Written.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 1:06 pm

Yep...

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 1:13 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Removed the handbags. Keep it on topic please, this is a serious discussion that should be held in a sensitive manner. Thanks.

Ever seen a blind man cross the road

Trying to make the other side?

Ever seen a young girl growing old

Trying to make herself a bride?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 1:14 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Removed the handbags. Keep it on topic please, this is a serious discussion that should be held in a sensitive manner. Thanks.

So what becomes of you my love

When they have finally stripped you of

The handbags and the gladrags

That your poor old Grandad had to sweat to buy you

Once I was a young man

And all I thought I had to do was smile

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 1:31 pm

Sorry, did I miss some personal abuse? Doing my best here! Smile

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 3:48 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's all to do with fear........I'm sure that these employers have nothing against Wheels...

I imagine what is going through their minds is...

1. Cost of hiring - Accomodating wheelie's needs etc..

2. Supervision/Loss of productivity - Will Wheelie need more attention ??...will there be productivity concessions by employing him..

3. How do we get rid ?? - If Wheels turns out to be a substandard employee will it be awkward firing him ???.....Rightly or wrongly Employers do regard people with disabilities as a "Protected" class....

Strangely enough, I'm not sure it is as simple as that across the board. For example, I work for a large company. We work in modern offices with perfectly adequate facilities for disabled users. Yet we have no disabled employees. Not a single one, in a pretty large company. In fact, I don't think I've ever worked with a disabled person.

For smaller companies, I think practical considerations come into play. But I also think there is more to it than that. It could be employers favouring people who are "like them", or simply believing that there are elements of any job that a disabled person may struggle with (perhaps going to client meetings where facilities may be unpredictable). I'm not sure it's purely conscious discrimination though.

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 7:14 pm

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's all to do with fear........I'm sure that these employers have nothing against Wheels...

I imagine what is going through their minds is...

1. Cost of hiring - Accomodating wheelie's needs etc..

2. Supervision/Loss of productivity - Will Wheelie need more attention ??...will there be productivity concessions by employing him..

3. How do we get rid ?? - If Wheels turns out to be a substandard employee will it be awkward firing him ???.....Rightly or wrongly Employers do regard people with disabilities as a "Protected" class....

Strangely enough, I'm not sure it is as simple as that across the board. For example, I work for a large company. We work in modern offices with perfectly adequate facilities for disabled users. Yet we have no disabled employees. Not a single one, in a pretty large company. In fact, I don't think I've ever worked with a disabled person.

For smaller companies, I think practical considerations come into play. But I also think there is more to it than that. It could be employers favouring people who are "like them", or simply believing that there are elements of any job that a disabled person may struggle with (perhaps going to client meetings where facilities may be unpredictable). I'm not sure it's purely conscious discrimination though.

You are right in many cases i don't think it is concious discrimination

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 8:55 pm

Just an update i have a new job now confirmed today, i hid my disability on the application and after i had an interview confirmed i then told them about my disability.

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 9:00 pm

Congratulations. And, unfortunate to say,I think you did the right thing.

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 9:27 pm

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:Congratulations. And, unfortunate to say,I think you did the right thing.

Thank you, i think your right which is sad really

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 07 Oct 2015, 9:38 pm

wheelchair1991 wrote:
jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:Congratulations. And, unfortunate to say,I think you did the right thing.

Thank you, i think your right which is sad really

Got the job done by hook or crook.........

Well done wheels you deserve it..

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Thu 08 Oct 2015, 7:15 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
wheelchair1991 wrote:
jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:Congratulations. And, unfortunate to say,I think you did the right thing.

Thank you, i think your right which is sad really

Got the job done by hook or crook.........

Well done wheels you deserve it..

Thanks Trussy, when i went for the interview it was for telesales but they were that impressed with my computer skills they also gave me a choice of working in their IT department. It just goes to show that the old saying of 'you wait so long then two come along at once' really is true

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 08 Oct 2015, 9:50 am

wheelchair1991 wrote:Just an update i have a new job now confirmed today, i hid my disability on the application and after i had an interview confirmed i then told them about my disability.

BOOM! Not the nicest way to have to get there but congrats on getting the position and best of luck in the new role!! clap clap

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Thu 08 Oct 2015, 1:58 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
wheelchair1991 wrote:Just an update i have a new job now confirmed today, i hid my disability on the application and after i had an interview confirmed i then told them about my disability.

BOOM! Not the nicest way to have to get there but congrats on getting the position and best of luck in the new role!! clap clap

Thanks Toppy Smile

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 08 Oct 2015, 2:01 pm

You probably won't be able to get on here during the day.....

Keep us informed on how you're getting on....

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Thu 08 Oct 2015, 2:08 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You probably won't be able to get on here during the day.....

Keep us informed on how you're getting on....

I will keep you informed Smile, the company who i am going to work for suggest i have a case against a betting company i applied to previously for discrimination after i told them about it

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Thu 08 Oct 2015, 2:29 pm

wheelchair1991 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You probably won't be able to get on here during the day.....

Keep us informed on how you're getting on....

I will keep you informed Smile, the company who i am going to work for suggest i have a case against a betting company i applied to previously for discrimination after i told them about it

Companies can't do that wheely. You was entitled to hide the truth as it should not matter anyway but that was out of order. You should push this so that it does not happen to anyone else.

And goodluck with your new job.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 08 Oct 2015, 2:49 pm

Wheelie has to prove said Company has deliberately acted in a discriminatory manner..

Handing in two separate applications in at different times is not a lot of evidence to prove a Company acts with discrimination against disabled applicants..

Company may say Wheelies second application was okayed by a different employee...Or the original guy after being disappointed by the response decided to lower the bar...

Certainly only visit a no win no fee operation..


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Post by Guest on Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:16 pm

You'd have to wait for a letter saying something "Wheelie, you f*cking c*nt. Had I know you were a fire hazard I'd have never hired you but then given you signed you application 'Wheelie' I should have known better. Suppose I'll have to learn from my mistakes, but you better watch your f*cking back sonny, I'm on to you and it won't be long before my revenge is sweet and permanent..bwwwhahahahahaaaaaaa!!!"

Without something like that, I'd say the chances of proving discrimination are very slender indeed.

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