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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 6:57 pm

So the pundits were Michael Linagh, Laurence Dallaglio and Sean Fitzpatrick.

The criteria were that the players selected had to have played in a RWC final...


1. Os Du Randt

2. Sean Fitzpatrick

3. Olo Brown

4. Martin Johnson

5. John Eales

6. Richard Hill

7. Richie McCaw (c)

8. Laurence Dallaglio

9. Nick Farr-Jones

10. Michael Linagh

11. Jonah Lomu

12. Tim Horan

13. Phillipe Sella

14. David Campese

15. Serge Blanco


What would your team be???

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Post by Notch on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 7:24 pm

Looks about right tbh. Might be tempted to slot Fourie Du Preez in, but other than that...
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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 7:34 pm

It's pretty good...

I'm not overly sure that Olo Brown, Laurence Dalaglio, Richard Hill or Michael Linagh would make my team.

I was a huge fan of French tighthead Jean-Pierre Garuet-Lempirou in 87, and Wayne Shellford too, Michael Jones played at six and is one of the greats of the game and at fly half I would have Larkham over Linagh even in Australian only selection... But to be honest fly half is a tough selection. There aren't any mesmeric fly halfs that played in a final. All teams won with pragmatic pensive fly halves...!

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Post by Notch on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 7:38 pm

What about Stephen Donald? Smile

I would also be tempted to make Martin Johnson captain, not Saint Richie (ducks for cover)
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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 8:04 pm

Notch wrote:What about Stephen Donald? Smile

I would also be tempted to make Martin Johnson captain, not Saint Richie (ducks for cover)

The debate said that a century of test wins as captain gave him the nod.

He has some list of deputies though eh...!

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Post by mckay1402 on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 8:05 pm

Joost
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Post by Notch on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 8:07 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Notch wrote:What about Stephen Donald? Smile

I would also be tempted to make Martin Johnson captain, not Saint Richie (ducks for cover)

The debate said that a century of test wins as captain gave him the nod.

He has some list of deputies though eh...!

Yeah not short of leadership that team.
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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 8:10 pm

Notch wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Notch wrote:What about Stephen Donald? Smile

I would also be tempted to make Martin Johnson captain, not Saint Richie (ducks for cover)

The debate said that a century of test wins as captain gave him the nod.

He has some list of deputies though eh...!

Yeah not short of leadership that team.

Watching the TV shoe there was plenty of respect between Sean Mike and Lozzer. I imagine that they wouldn't suffer from the too many cooks spiking the broth theory...

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Post by No9 on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 8:12 pm

Watched this show, have respect for Lynagh and Fitzpatrick, but this was the most sycophantic show I've ever watched....

I'm not sure the ruling was had to play in the World Cup Final, but they should have had a rule that excluded themselves.

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Post by Poorfour on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 9:51 pm

Jason Leonard, anyone?

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Post by maestegmafia on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 7:13 am

No9 wrote:Watched this show, have respect for Lynagh and Fitzpatrick, but this was the most sycophantic show I've ever watched....

I'm not sure the ruling was had to play in the World Cup Final, but they should have had a rule that excluded themselves.

There was a degree of sycophancy for sure.

Who would you include if Dayglo, Fitzgerald and Lynagh were out of selection?

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Post by Biltong on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 8:37 am

At least the selection panel is aware of the quota issue in SA, hence the token Saffa in Os du Randt Very Happy
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Post by maestegmafia on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 8:50 am

Biltong wrote:At least the selection panel is aware of the quota issue in SA, hence the token Saffa in Os du Randt Very Happy

Both Chester and Habana were discussed...

Skill wise it's hard to select either over Lomu or Campese, probably the two greatest wingers to ever play the game but Habana is close.

Chester will never be forgotten from 95. Him in the team meant as much as Mandela wearing a springbok shirt.

Wounds don't heal easy mate... But the Boks should still have beaten the Japanese.


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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 8:53 am

Contenders for the Selectors positions:

1987: Fitzpatrick, Shelford, Fox, Dubroca, Rodriguez, Mesnel
1991: Kearns, Coker, Lynagh, Moore, Teague, Andrew
1995: Rossouw, Andrews, Stransky, Fitzpatrick, Zinzan, Mehrtens
1999: Foley, Kefu, Larkham, Ibanez, Juillet, Lamaison
2003: Thomson, Dayglo, Wilkinson, Cannon, Lyons, Larkham
2007: Smit, Rossouw, James, Regan, Easter, Wilkinson
2011: Mealamu, Read, Cruden/Donald, Servat, Hairydonkey, Parra

Fitz nailed on for me,
Dayglo under pressure from Read (perhaps overtaken after this comp?) and Buck - but his off the bench appearance in 2007 helps.
Lynagh most under pressure. Larkham and Wilkinson both featured in two finals with Wilko's efforts in dragging a crap England team to the final surely worthy of consideration.

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 8:53 am

The first eight are wrong except for Martin Johnson, Richard Hill and Lawrence Dallaglio. It should be the whole 2003 England pack. We will never see a pack as dominant as that one ever again.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 8:58 am

LordDowlais wrote:The first eight are wrong except for Martin Johnson, Richard Hill and Lawrence Dallaglio. It should be the whole 2003 England pack. We will never see a pack as dominant as that one ever again.

Eales vs Kay, McCaw (or Jones) vs Back. no contest.

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Post by Jimpy on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 8:58 am

LordDowlais wrote:The first eight are wrong except for Martin Johnson, Richard Hill and Lawrence Dallaglio. It should be the whole 2003 England pack. We will never see a pack as dominant as that one ever again.

Indeed, I remember the press in NZ describing them as 'gargoyles', there wasn't an international team in the world that wasn't terrified of them. I seem to remember Lawrence and co beating NZ when reduced to 13 men. I don't see another group of forwards dominating like that ever again either. The game has moved towards more mobile packs - although that 2003 group was both big and mobile.

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 9:02 am

LondonTiger wrote:Eales vs Kay, McCaw (or Jones) vs Back. no contest.

I will give you Eales, but you are giving Neil Back a major disservice. That man pioneered openside play in the professional era. He was better than McCaw at his peak.

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Post by fa0019 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 9:23 am

So Dallalgio, Lynagh and Fitzpatrick decide and they decide on Dallaglio, Lynagh and Fitzpatrick.

What a surprise.

Dallaglio had a poor 2003 tournament by his high standards. Played well in the final but had a poor tournament. Hardly played in 2007 bar 10 mins off the bench here and there. 1999 he was perhaps the 4th best no8 on show.
Even SCW said it years later in his book years later.

Got to go with buck... how can you go with anyone bar buck.

Lynagh over JW.. please.

JW played in 4 tournaments, was world player of the year in 2003 off the back of his 03 exploits, dragged his side in 2007 to a final when they should have barely made the KO stages.

Fitzpatrick... I agree that one. To be starting 2 at 3 consecutive RWCs for NZ is an achievement in itself.

on the rest...

Farr-Jones over van der Westhuizen? Lynagh giving his mate a boost there for sure.

Also Olo Brown... bull. He was forever smashed upfront by bokke sides. Good prop yes but Du Randt annihilated him in the final and he was constantly done over by the boks whenever I saw them play.

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Post by GunsGerms on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 9:25 am

Notch wrote:Looks about right tbh. Might be tempted to slot Fourie Du Preez in, but other than that...

Joost was a million times better than Boxkick DuPreez

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Post by Biltong on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 9:36 am

fa0019 wrote:So Dallalgio, Lynagh and Fitzpatrick decide and they decide on Dallaglio, Lynagh and Fitzpatrick.

What a surprise.

Dallaglio had a poor 2003 tournament by his high standards. Played well in the final but had a poor tournament. Hardly played in 2007 bar 10 mins off the bench here and there. 1999 he was perhaps the 4th best no8 on show.
Even SCW said it years later in his book years later.

Got to go with buck... how can you go with anyone bar buck.

Lynagh over JW.. please.

JW played in 4 tournaments, was world player of the year in 2003 off the back of his 03 exploits, dragged his side in 2007 to a final when they should have barely made the KO stages.

Fitzpatrick... I agree that one. To be starting 2 at 3 consecutive RWCs for NZ is an achievement in itself.

on the rest...

Farr-Jones over van der Westhuizen? Lynagh giving his mate a boost there for sure.

Also Olo Brown... bull. He was forever smashed upfront by bokke sides. Good prop yes but Du Randt annihilated him in the final and he was constantly done over by the boks whenever I saw them play.

Fitzy, you were the greatest, no Lawrence you were, no lynaxh was, no you were, no you were, you were, you were.......ad infinitum.

It is a wonder they got to pick the other 12 positions Very Happy
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Post by rapidsnowman on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 9:37 am

Joost was the only scrum half who could take down Lomu at the height of his powers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSFSBwITH_s

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Post by GunsGerms on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 9:42 am

rapidsnowman wrote:Joost was the only scrum half who could take down Lomu at the height of his powers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSFSBwITH_s

Not true. Peter Stringer the smallest dude in rugby took him down too. Joost however, in fairness took him down every time.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRlEOaCrcko

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Post by GunsGerms on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 9:44 am

Biltong wrote:
fa0019 wrote:So Dallalgio, Lynagh and Fitzpatrick decide and they decide on Dallaglio, Lynagh and Fitzpatrick.

What a surprise.

Dallaglio had a poor 2003 tournament by his high standards. Played well in the final but had a poor tournament. Hardly played in 2007 bar 10 mins off the bench here and there. 1999 he was perhaps the 4th best no8 on show.
Even SCW said it years later in his book years later.

Got to go with buck... how can you go with anyone bar buck.

Lynagh over JW.. please.

JW played in 4 tournaments, was world player of the year in 2003 off the back of his 03 exploits, dragged his side in 2007 to a final when they should have barely made the KO stages.

Fitzpatrick... I agree that one. To be starting 2 at 3 consecutive RWCs for NZ is an achievement in itself.

on the rest...

Farr-Jones over van der Westhuizen? Lynagh giving his mate a boost there for sure.

Also Olo Brown... bull. He was forever smashed upfront by bokke sides. Good prop yes but Du Randt annihilated him in the final and he was constantly done over by the boks whenever I saw them play.

Fitzy, you were the greatest, no Lawrence you were, no lynaxh was, no you were, no you were, you were, you were.......ad infinitum.

It is a wonder they got to pick the other 12 positions Very Happy

Dayglo didnt have a poor tournament. He was injured for the whole group stages and only started in the KOs after a lay off. I thought for the two crunch games he was superb. He really was a great player IMO.

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Post by fa0019 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 9:44 am

GunsGerms wrote:
rapidsnowman wrote:Joost was the only scrum half who could take down Lomu at the height of his powers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSFSBwITH_s

Not true. Peter Stringer the smallest dude in rugby took him down too. Joost however, in fairness took him down every time.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRlEOaCrcko

2002 mind Guns.. Stringer was the best tap tackler I've ever seen though (albeit not a tap tackle that time).

In 2002 Jonah was surviving on about half a kidney (still smashed most mind)

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Post by fa0019 on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 9:47 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Biltong wrote:
fa0019 wrote:So Dallalgio, Lynagh and Fitzpatrick decide and they decide on Dallaglio, Lynagh and Fitzpatrick.

What a surprise.

Dallaglio had a poor 2003 tournament by his high standards. Played well in the final but had a poor tournament. Hardly played in 2007 bar 10 mins off the bench here and there. 1999 he was perhaps the 4th best no8 on show.
Even SCW said it years later in his book years later.

Got to go with buck... how can you go with anyone bar buck.

Lynagh over JW.. please.

JW played in 4 tournaments, was world player of the year in 2003 off the back of his 03 exploits, dragged his side in 2007 to a final when they should have barely made the KO stages.

Fitzpatrick... I agree that one. To be starting 2 at 3 consecutive RWCs for NZ is an achievement in itself.

on the rest...

Farr-Jones over van der Westhuizen? Lynagh giving his mate a boost there for sure.

Also Olo Brown... bull. He was forever smashed upfront by bokke sides. Good prop yes but Du Randt annihilated him in the final and he was constantly done over by the boks whenever I saw them play.

Fitzy, you were the greatest, no Lawrence you were, no lynaxh was, no you were, no you were, you were, you were.......ad infinitum.

It is a wonder they got to pick the other 12 positions Very Happy

Dayglo didnt have a poor tournament. He was injured for the whole group stages and only started in the KOs after a lay off. I thought for the two crunch games he was superb. He really was a great player IMO.

Really thought he played well vs. Wales? According to SCW he was playing so bad up to the final that he had a big falling out with him prior to that and considered dropping him.

I thought it was Hill who was injured not Dallaglio?

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Post by rapidsnowman on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 10:56 am

rapidsnowman wrote:
Joost was the only scrum half who could take down Lomu at the height of his powers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSFSBwITH_s

Not true. Peter Stringer the smallest dude in rugby took him down too. Joost however, in fairness took him down every time.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRlEOaCrcko

How very true!

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 11:00 am

No Phil Vickery? Shocked

Isnt he due to retire soon?

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Post by Totalflanker on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 11:24 am

LordDowlais wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Eales vs Kay, McCaw (or Jones) vs Back. no contest.

I will give you Eales, but you are giving Neil Back a major disservice. That man pioneered  openside play in the professional era. He was better than McCaw at his peak.

Back was good and part of a fantastic pack, Pioneer no (other than proving that if the fight/heart were big enough then you didn't necessarily need the size). ABs were miles ahead in their professionalism before the game became professional and Michael Jones even more so. At least two more ABs in Jones and Kronfeld, one Englishman Winterbottom, one Scot Calder, one Australian Smith ahead of him for world cups XV.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 11:27 am

fa0019 wrote:I thought it was Hill who was injured not Dallaglio?

I had a funny feeling that Dayglo was the only England player to play every minute.

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Post by rodders on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 11:36 am

1. Os Du Randt
2. Sean Fitzpatrick
3. Phil Vickery
4. Brad Thorn
5. John Eales
6. Thiery Dusitoir
7. Richie McCaw (c)
8. Zinzan Brooke
9. Joost Van der Westhuizen
10. Jonny Wilkinson
11. Jonah Lomu
12. Tim Horan
13. Conrad Smith
14. Brian Habana
15. Matt Burke
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Post by GunsGerms on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 12:45 pm

fa0019 wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
rapidsnowman wrote:Joost was the only scrum half who could take down Lomu at the height of his powers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSFSBwITH_s

Not true. Peter Stringer the smallest dude in rugby took him down too. Joost however, in fairness took him down every time.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRlEOaCrcko

2002 mind Guns.. Stringer was the best tap tackler I've ever seen though (albeit not a tap tackle that time).

In 2002 Jonah was surviving on about half a kidney (still smashed most mind)

He was actually in really bad shape during the 1995 world cup too. According to Sean Fitz on an interview with newstalk last week Lomu almost wasnt picked in '95 because in training he was shot every time after a 50 meter run. It was just that back then they didn't know why.

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Post by GunsGerms on Fri 25 Sep 2015, 12:49 pm

fa0019 wrote:

Really thought he played well vs. Wales? According to SCW he was playing so bad up to the final that he had a big falling out with him prior to that and considered dropping him.

I thought it was Hill who was injured not Dallaglio?

Yes actually that sounds right.

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Post by nganboy on Sat 26 Sep 2015, 11:16 pm

Joost and Larkham.
And Michael Jones - just not sure whether he replaces Hill or McCaw. Actually he's good enough to replace both!
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 26 Sep 2015, 11:25 pm

I'd have Back over McCaw every time personally and Wilkinson or Carter over Linagh aside from that can't complain too much, Du Randt was the main man in 2007, greatest prop of them all.

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Post by fa0019 on Sat 26 Sep 2015, 11:44 pm

Back was good but McCaw, how can you not go with McCaw? Back would have had about 3 caps had McCaw been English.

Back suited England to a T. However McCaw gives teams an extra dimension.

In terms of opensides in the RWC I'd probably say it was

McCaw, Jones, Kronfeld, Dusatoir, Burger, Winterbottom... then Back. And Pocock looks ready to explode onto the scene this time around.

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