England in the UAE

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England in the UAE

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 05 Oct 2015, 8:49 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures

Mon Oct 5 - Tue Oct 6
England XI v Pakistan A
Sharjah Cricket Stadium

Thu Oct 8 - Fri Oct 9
England XI v Pakistan A
Sharjah Cricket Stadium

Tue Oct 13 - Sat Oct 17
1st Test - England v Pakistan
Sheikh Zayed Stadium, Abu Dhabi

Thu Oct 22 - Mon Oct 26
2nd Test - England v Pakistan
Dubai International Cricket Stadium

Sun Nov 1 - Thu Nov 5
3rd Test - England v Pakistan
Sharjah Cricket Stadium

Sun Nov 8 (50 ovs)
England XI v TBC
Sheikh Zayed Stadium, Abu Dhabi

Wed Nov 11
1st ODI - England v Pakistan
Sheikh Zayed Stadium, Abu Dhabi

Fri Nov 13
2nd ODI - England v Pakistan
Sheikh Zayed Stadium, Abu Dhabi

Tue Nov 17
3rd ODI - England v Pakistan
Sharjah Cricket Stadium

Fri Nov 20 (
4th ODI - England v Pakistan
Dubai International Cricket Stadium

Mon Nov 23
England XI v United Arab Emirates
Sheikh Zayed Stadium, Abu Dhabi

Thu Nov 26
1st T20I - England v Pakistan
Dubai International Cricket Stadium

Fri Nov 27
2nd T20I - England v Pakistan
Dubai International Cricket Stadium

Mon Nov 30
3rd T20I - England v Pakistan
Sharjah Cricket Stadium



Squads

Test squad:
Alastair Cook (Essex, capt), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Zafar Ansari (Surrey), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire, wk), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire, wk), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), James Taylor (Nottinghamshire), Mark Wood (Durham).


ODI squad:
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex, capt), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire, wk), Sam Billings (Kent, wk), Jos Buttler (Lancashire, wk), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), James Taylor (Nottinghamshire), Reece Topley (Hampshire), David Willey (Yorkshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).


Twenty20 squad:
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex, capt), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Sam Billings (Kent, wk), Jos Buttler (Lancashire, wk), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Chris Jordan (Sussex), Stephen Parry (Lancashire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Reece Topley (Hampshire), James Vince (Hampshire), David Willey (Yorkshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 13 Oct 2015, 8:57 pm

Duty281 wrote:Oh let's give it a go then.

Good day for England. Should be targeting to skittle out Pakistan for under 400 - the middle and lower-order of the home side won't be able to muster too much of a defence against the revitalised English attack.

From there, the Ashes champions should be targeting 550+. With Cook and Root, two world-class batsmen who will overhaul Tendulkar in good time, leading the charge it should be more than achievable. The once magnificent, and still considerable, Ian Bell will be terrifically motivated to right the wrongs of three years ago (and today!) in his best position of number three.

Ali and Bairstow can be solid and dependable. I have a feeling Pakistan won't have prepared too heavily in assessing their weaknesses; to their utmost detriment, it shall be!

And if, which I have every confidence, England do prepare a most wonderful platform - say 350/4 or 420/5 - then Buttler and Stokes will have every opportunity to attack with great gusto and exuberance. Rashid and Broad can then polish it off.

Pakistan are batting too slowly, and have lost too many wickets, to put England under any psychological distress. Cook's lads should certainly aim for a 100-150+ run lead which should be all they need.

I'm mystified as to the odds of 7/1 on England winning. Genuinely bewildered.

For while the tired waves, vainly breaking
Seem here no painful inch to gain,
Far back through creeks and inlets making,
Comes silent, flooding in, the main.

And not by eastern windows only,
When daylight comes, comes in the light,
In front the sun climbs slow, how slowly,
But westward, look, the land is bright!


Come on England!

I feel like belting out land of hope and glory. Beautiful duty, beautiful notworthy

On a separate note how'd Rashid do today? Mixed reports on the media, some say fine, some say not so fine
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Duty281 on Tue 13 Oct 2015, 9:05 pm

Um...not great, to be kind. Far from economical, far from being any sort of persistent threat.

Give him time!

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by msp83 on Tue 13 Oct 2015, 9:12 pm

Neither Rashid or Ali seems to have done particularly well, Rashid going close to 4.5 an over, Ali going at close to 4 an over. But from the text commentary from cricinfo, I got the sense that Rashid did get a few to turn big even on a day one track and went pass the bata few times, and Ali did keep things quiet in his early spells. Ali is somewhere between a regular spinner and a parttimer, Rashid is playing his debut test. It is a day one track that is on the flatter side, they are playing against a lineup that is good against spin. I don't think many would have expected them to run through the Pakistanis.......
I noticed Guildford and some others have hinted at the containing spinner option. I do agree that the holding up job is important in the first innings as the seamers can't bowl all day in the sun and they would need support. However, these tracks are far more likely to turn significantly on days 4 and 5, and the spinners will be key in a wickettaking role. If your holding up spinner isn't able to turn into that role, think the attacking option is better. Particularly as England do have 4 seamers. Might have to do more work in the first, the seamers, and hopefully the attacking spin option will come in handy in the 2nd innings and the spinners can come on in short sharp bursts from time to time.......

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 13 Oct 2015, 9:19 pm

It is pretty much as tough an assignment as you'll get in test cricket as a spinner today tbf - let's see how they go throughout the three games.

(Have just caught up on the highlights)

Person I'm really not convinced by is Wood - is he actually any good? I'm not sure. He just seems to be quick and have a funny run up
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 13 Oct 2015, 10:26 pm

msp83 wrote:Neither Rashid or Ali seems to have done particularly well, Rashid going close to 4.5 an over, Ali going at close to 4 an over. But from the text commentary from cricinfo, I got the sense that Rashid did get a few to turn big even on a day one track and went pass the bata few times, and Ali did keep things quiet in his early spells. Ali is somewhere between a regular spinner and a parttimer, Rashid is playing his debut test. It is a day one track that is on the flatter side, they are playing against a lineup that is good against spin. I don't think many would have expected them to run through the Pakistanis.......
I noticed Guildford and some others have hinted at the containing spinner option.  I do agree that the holding up job is important in the first innings as the seamers can't bowl all day in the sun and they would need support. However, these tracks are far more likely to turn significantly on days 4 and 5, and the spinners will be key in a wickettaking role. If your holding up spinner isn't able to turn into that role, think the attacking option is better. Particularly as England do have 4 seamers. Might have to do more work in the first, the seamers, and hopefully the attacking spin option will come in handy in the 2nd innings and the spinners can come on in short sharp bursts from time to time.......

Thoughtful post, msp. Appreciated.

I'll consider and comment more as this Test progresses but a couple of comments now on our spinners (more general than in direct response to your post):
1. This may seem particularly ridiculous given I'm talking about an off spinner and a leggie but Ali and Rashid have too much in common for my liking. I'm really thinking here of general strengths and weaknesses.
2. There's been a pretty recurring theme in reports that England, Ali and Rashid were unlucky that these two were bowling on day one against this opposition in these conditions. That's just naive and I have little time for that view. Having selected Ali and Rashid, it was always going to be 50-50 that would be the case and we have to accept the consequences.


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Re: England in the UAE

Post by alfie on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 2:52 am

Certainly not despairing of Rashid on the strength of day one...he bowled rather a lot of loose balls but we expected that ; and he didn't go to pieces under the pressure of being attacked. Yes he did turn a few balls to a considerable degree : unfortunately not from or to quite the best spots , if you see what I mean ; and he didn't get much bounce. I do suspect this won't be the sort of pitch on which he will thrive - it is probably going to be better suited to a Panesar type as the match wears on.
Thought Ali started very well. But the batsmen played him patiently ; and gradually got on top.

It isn't going to be easy for either of them here . But if (big if !) England can score heavily , I reckon they may well be able to use scoreboard pressure to their advantage later in the match/series.

I was encouraged by the way the seamers coped with conditions yesterday. Better catching and who knows what might have been achieved ?

Hope they can back up on day two.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 7:43 am

Depressings start. More economy form the senior seamers, any vague pressure released by Rashid. Pakistan have moved on nicely this morning and the chances arent coming.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 7:55 am

guildfordbat wrote:
msp83 wrote:Neither Rashid or Ali seems to have done particularly well, Rashid going close to 4.5 an over, Ali going at close to 4 an over. But from the text commentary from cricinfo, I got the sense that Rashid did get a few to turn big even on a day one track and went pass the bata few times, and Ali did keep things quiet in his early spells. Ali is somewhere between a regular spinner and a parttimer, Rashid is playing his debut test. It is a day one track that is on the flatter side, they are playing against a lineup that is good against spin. I don't think many would have expected them to run through the Pakistanis.......
I noticed Guildford and some others have hinted at the containing spinner option.  I do agree that the holding up job is important in the first innings as the seamers can't bowl all day in the sun and they would need support. However, these tracks are far more likely to turn significantly on days 4 and 5, and the spinners will be key in a wickettaking role. If your holding up spinner isn't able to turn into that role, think the attacking option is better. Particularly as England do have 4 seamers. Might have to do more work in the first, the seamers, and hopefully the attacking spin option will come in handy in the 2nd innings and the spinners can come on in short sharp bursts from time to time.......

Thoughtful post, msp. Appreciated.

I'll consider and comment more as this Test progresses but a couple of comments now on our spinners (more general than in direct response to your post):
1. This may seem particularly ridiculous given I'm talking about an off spinner and a leggie but Ali and Rashid have too much in common for my liking. I'm really thinking here of general strengths and weaknesses.
2. There's been a pretty recurring theme in reports that England, Ali and Rashid were unlucky that these two were bowling on day one against this opposition in these conditions. That's just naive and I have little time for that view. Having selected Ali and Rashid, it was always going to be 50-50 that would be the case and we have to accept the consequences.


I dont really see theres a case for critisizing the selection, England didnt really have any other options. Last time they came out all the blame was put on not picking two spinners. England have also persistently been critisized over the years for seeing spinners as a tool for "holding up an end" rather than taking wickets, yet as soon as they pick two who are on the more agressive side they get hammered for it. The problem England persistently have is that they can only select the players that they have available.
Its not unbreasonable for us to be depressed an moan when those selected players dont do the job though. And in the case of Rashid there was such a groundswell of internet and media pressure to pick him ahead of Ali ( who took some real stick for being alive during the summer) that I guess there is an element of wanting to highlight his struggles and the reasosn why he wasnt selected sooner just to make that point. Id say the same for Ansari, this wouldve been a graveyard for him too had England rocked up with 3 part time spinners (4 if you include Root) on a pitch that seems to suit seamers better.
Players are always at their best when they arent selected. See also : Steve Finn who of course wouldve single handedly bowled out Pakistan yesterday on a slowish pitch with little bounce.
Rashid will suffer the consequences of not having a poorly thumb and be expected to bowl in rubbish conditions against players who are comfortable not slogging him. Indeed that arguably the big issue with both Rashid and Ali on this pitch against the more cultured Pakistan batters; whereas the Aussies or others would look to smash them out of the park and once in a while get caught out (in both senses) these players have the ability to score off most balls without taking big risks and dont feel the need to try an win the game in 20 overs. Its a masterclass in dull pitch batting as well, so some credit due to Pakistan for the way they have gone about this as a unit.

Whoever in the England staff thought that Wood and RAshid was a good combination though needs shooting.


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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 8:14 am

England's spin problem is simply we don't have swann/panesar anymore.

Ali is a developing off spinner
Rashid is playing his first test and still developing leg spin.

And these are our two best current options against some of the better spin players around

This was pretty much always the most likely outcome on day 1/2.

Looking pretty bleak now - those bell drops look crucial
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by VTR on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 8:18 am

Its looking very bleak! Basically Pakistan will bat on and declare whenever they want. I suspect they will aim for 550 with an eye on enforcing the follow on.

I also fear for our batting here. A lot of them were out of form to start with, and just having two farcical warm up games, where hardly any of them made runs is not the best preparation! 250ao I reckon

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 8:30 am

Im not sure that warm up game was as much of a farce as the ones they usually get, the big problem was that oit was the only one, alongisde the pitch being quite different to this one and the batsmen being rubbish. At least they had to face some half decent bowlers rather than the div 2 second XI's England put out for Austrlaius warm ups.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by alfie on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 8:36 am

Getting away a bit today , eh ? Was always the concern after yesterday (that late drop very crucial I think )

Once Anderson and Broad come off it's pretty much party time for the batsmen it seems now...heading for 500 plus.

Going to need the deep batting lineup. And hope a couple of the top order bats can bat big.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by KP_fan on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 8:40 am

Most exit routes for Eng blocked this morning.
125 run partnership between these two at 3.5RPO

Cook needs to score a giant double hundred and others bat around him and get a humongous first inning score to force a draw.
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 9:22 am

Olly wrote:England's spin problem is simply we don't have swann/panesar anymore.

Ali is a developing off spinner
Rashid is playing his first test and still developing leg spin.

And these are our two best current options against some of the better spin players around

This was pretty much always the most likely outcome on day 1/2.


Looking pretty bleak now - those bell drops look crucial

Hi Olly and all - I don't agree with the first highlighted sentence. To quote Alec Stewart to me on a previous occasion, ''It's a game of opinions, sir.'' Smile

If the second highlighted sentence is correct - and I believe that one is, and have long been consistent with that view - shouldn't we have tried something different?

I accept we don't have this type of player in the UAE and, in any case, the selectors turned their backs on such players some time ago but I would look to a holding spinner to provide support to Ali and the seamers. I've long been a supporter of Tredwell. If his form was not considered good enough, even Batty might have been a short term winter option. As posted yesterday, I don't consider Ali and Rashid to be an effective combo. I have considerable doubts about Rashid which are well documented and go back much further than yesterday.

Saw The Verdict on the Sky (UK) cricket channel last night with Charles Colville and Bob Willis. The latter was scathing in his comments:
''The spinners were a bit of an embarrassment. Poor old Adil Rashid was not much of an advance on Simon Kerrigan ... .. Too many gift balls from him ... He's got to learn to bowl much quicker in these conditions ... Moeen Ali was more economical but didn't look threatening at all.''

Admittedly, Sky never want a middle of the road comment when an aggressive soundbite (incidentally, lacking any solution) will do. Nonetheless, I couldn't disagree with Willis.

Btw, I do totally agree with Olly in another of his posts that every passing England Test shows how incredibly good and valuable Swann was. A case can definitely be made for him being England's greatest spinner.

Finally, a word for the England seamers who have performed admirably and lacked only luck and a second slip.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by kingraf on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 10:26 am

Still early days, but I suppose now is as good a time as any to prop this up

kingraf wrote:Don't watch any County Cricket, so I can't comment on the spinners to pick. However, I watch a lot of Pakistani cricket, and I would say that it's very important to understand that the pitches over there generally don't break down into dustbowls. They are very conducive to slow bowling, yes. But it's not a simple case of only needing to chuck (I mean bowl legally, of course) it at 55mph and the pitch will do the rest. As such, I'd say that if England pick three spinners, they need to have three quality spinners. Can't just pick three and expect to win because they picked three. Pakistan are probably the premier spin players in the world now.

Don't go in with two spinners for the sake of going in with two spinners
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by alfie on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:08 am

kingraf wrote:Still early days, but I suppose now is as good a time as any to prop this up

kingraf wrote:Don't watch any County Cricket, so I can't comment on the spinners to pick. However, I watch a lot of Pakistani cricket, and I would say that it's very important to understand that the pitches over there generally don't break down into dustbowls. They are very conducive to slow bowling, yes. But it's not a simple case of only needing to chuck (I mean bowl legally, of course) it at 55mph and the pitch will do the rest. As such, I'd say that if England pick three spinners, they need to have three quality spinners. Can't just pick three and expect to win because they picked three. Pakistan are probably the premier spin players in the world now.

Don't go in with two spinners for the sake of going in with two spinners

Well yes. But I think two spinners is probably minimum for these conditions.  Had Cook won the toss I suspect even these two might have been a bit more helpful.
One might question whether they've maybe bowled a few too many overs early in sessions ; but I guess quite apart from this game they have to "learn on the job" for the sake of the rest of the series.

As guildford says , Swann was a monumental loss.  Neither these two , nor anyone else around at the moment , can come close to covering for him. So when they move away from seam-friendly pitches , England have a problem for the foreseeable future.
SA have managed quite well with an excellent pace attack and a fine all rounder (that they no longer have). But England need a third top class pace man to aid Broad and Anderson if they can't unearth a spinner , or they're going to struggle in Asia.  Probably why so much hope has been invested in Rashid ; and I must repeat I'm not totally giving up on him yet , although I'm not as optimistic as some.
Can't say I really believe Tredwell or Batty would have been much more effective , to be honest. More economical than Rashid , certainly. But without the potential upside.  Perhaps with better slip catching for the seamers , Tredwell , say , might have been a better fit as fifth bowler.  But in that case Rashid might not have needed to bowl so many overs anyway...

Aargh...I'm going round in circles. Sorry.   Guess what I'm saying is that England are pretty much stuck with this for now , and I just hope they can make it work over the next couple of matches. May be hard for Rashid to bounce back from this start in Test Cricket ; but at least we should find out a bit about his character , as well
as his capacity to learn. I do agree he needs to bowl a bit quicker.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by alfie on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:21 am

With all this English doom & gloom we shouldn't forget to praise Malik for a terrific effort of concentration . A road it may be ; but it is still hot as blazes and he has carried on now for 375 balls with hardly a blemish : takes some mental powers.

And as I type he celebrates the 200 partnership or something by throwing the kitchen sink at poor Rashid...

This is getting a bit ugly.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:28 am

No wonder people don't turn up to watch cricket in UAE -. It's so dull
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by ShahenshahG on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:30 am

They don't turn up because they're working otherwise the stadium would be packed

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Duty281 on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:31 am

Now that Rashid has figures of 0/160 - is this a worse debut than Kerrigan's?

I wonder if Pakistan are interested in making some records? 1,000 runs in the innings and 500+ for Malik.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by kingraf on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:31 am

Wouldn't say it's dull, nor would I say there's a cause/effect relationship. Just a place with no Test cricketing culture. And migrant workers probably can't get time off in the day to watch a game (less said about this the better)

Certainly makes a change from the Madness which happened the entire English summer
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by jimbohammers on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:33 am

Rashid having a mare.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:34 am

alfie wrote:With all this English doom & gloom we shouldn't forget to praise Malik for a terrific effort of concentration .  A road it may be ; but it is still hot as blazes and he has carried on now for 375 balls with hardly a blemish : takes some mental powers.

And as I type he celebrates the 200 partnership or something by throwing the kitchen sink at poor Rashid...

This is getting a bit ugly.

Hi Alfie - I was hoping you might appear soon and be able to cheer me up. The latter was a desperate hope, I admit! Wink

Yeah, all a bit ugly now.

I don't see Tredwell or Batty as any great saviour but I feel they might have helped to stop the almost inevitable rot. As you say, in these conditions we need two spinners but the similar downsides of Rashid and Ali are too much for me. Play just one - Ali - and a container.

Btw, there were concerns at Surrey about Ansari being both a main front line bowler and an opening bat this season just gone - considered by many to have adversely impacted his concentration for batting following long bowling spells. Just wonder how Ali will cope, probably late today??

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by VTR on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:34 am

Olly wrote:No wonder people don't turn up to watch cricket in UAE -. It's so dull

Its dull so far in the same way the Lords Ashes Test was dull, until England started batting! The run rate is not too bad, its never very entertaining waiting for a declaration as bowlers go through the motions. I suppose we can only declare the match dull overall if England easily bat out a draw

Either way I don't think cricket should be played in the UAE as what is the point in top level international sport played in front of 20 people? Even if there were 15 wickets a day with a run rate of 4.5 the crowds would not turn up


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Re: England in the UAE

Post by ShahenshahG on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:43 am

They want day night tests in UAE to get a full crowd. Wonder if it'll catch on

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Duty281 on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:50 am

I think Pakistan should bat until lunch tomorrow. England will be expecting a declaration at some point in the last session, not being kept out there for another four hours while Pakistan scoot past 750.

We all know the pitch will be a minefield once England bat!

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by kingraf on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:51 am

I'm enjoying this. This is a marker from Misbah. A statement of intent designed to damage England psychologically and physically. Part of the beauty of a series of games is when a team also play the long game.
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:53 am

Well what an end to a second wicketless session. Stokes bowling off-spin.

All the bowlers have stuck to their task manfully, though only Rashid has even suggested a wicket taking threat.

As always we will have to agree to disagree GB - but on that wicket Tredwell and Batty would have been milked for about 8 an over, unless they achieved something I have seen neither manage in the last couple of years which would be to hint at turning the ball.


If only Bell could catch a ball.

england to be rolled over twice in the next four sessions.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by VTR on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:01 pm

kingraf wrote:

Certainly makes a change from the Madness which happened the entire English summer

Well its different that's for sure. But if all Test cricket was like this in terms of balance between bat and ball and atmosphere, there would be no such thing as Test cricket within 6 months. Give me the NZ/Aus summer over this any day, even if there were some crazy days

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by kingraf on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:05 pm

VTR wrote:
kingraf wrote:

Certainly makes a change from the Madness which happened the entire English summer

Well its different that's for sure. But if all Test cricket was like this in terms of balance between bat and ball and atmosphere, there would be no such thing as Test cricket within 6 months. Give me the NZ/Aus summer over this any day, even if there were some crazy days

Thing is, everytime Pakistan play in UAE and bat first. Everyone moans about how flat the pitch is. Then they run through the opposition twice and everyone moans about how unfair the pitch. think only one Test in UAE in the last two-three years was a draw, so it's not like they don't produce result pitches. You just don't know how to play on them
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Duty281 on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:08 pm

Wicket!

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by VTR on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:11 pm

No-one other than Pakistan knows how to play on these pitches. Teams visit every 4 or 5 years for a few matches then move on to other countries that at least offer a variety of surfaces, some history and even the odd crowd.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:12 pm

Tiger - as you say, we have to agree to disagree. Obviously I have no way of proving how the likes of Tredwell and Batty would have done on this wicket. I don't accept either would have gone at 8 an over. You wouldn't have got the number of ''gift balls'' from either of them that Willis was complaining about last night (my earlier post today refers).

Too early as well to say I've been proved right about Rashid but there seems some basis in my earlier reservations.

I also feel there's some justification in my claim that Rashid and Ali aren't an effective combo.

Btw, Botham didn't understand the question put to him about the difficulty Ali might have in concentrating upon his batting opening the innings having bowled 30 odd overs. He really does come across as being thick as pig sh*t.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by kingraf on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:17 pm

VTR wrote:No-one other than Pakistan knows how to play on these pitches. Teams visit every 4 or 5 years for a few matches then move on to other countries that at least offer a variety of surfaces, some history and even the odd crowd.

We got two series draws there. NZ got a draw.
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:29 pm

Rashid and Ali's combined figures currently:
64-2-284-0.
Ali going at a tad above 4 an over while Rashid is pushing towards 5.

I wouldn't particularly blame either for not being tight (it's well known that's not their game) but I would question the wisdom of playing them as a combo. Anyway, that tune is played for now. Maybe they can pick up the odd wicket as the declaration gets nearer.


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Re: England in the UAE

Post by VTR on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:30 pm

We're running through them now!

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by VTR on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:31 pm

kingraf wrote:
VTR wrote:No-one other than Pakistan knows how to play on these pitches. Teams visit every 4 or 5 years for a few matches then move on to other countries that at least offer a variety of surfaces, some history and even the odd crowd.

We got two series draws there. NZ got a draw.

How many people were in the ground to see those?

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:33 pm

England spinners are closing in on 300-0 if you include Root as well.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:36 pm

Incredibly disappointed bell didn't drop that
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:43 pm

Olly wrote:Incredibly disappointed bell didn't drop that

Not a fan of this catching nonsense. If we're going to lose let's at least be funny about it
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by VTR on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:50 pm

I think there's definitely an element of black comedy in a man taking 2 catches in the space of 10 balls after costing the team the small matter of about 250 runs with the earlier drops!

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:52 pm

Positives:

Momentum is with England

Its a seamers pitch

Bells not ended yet

The chances of pigs flying is higher in a country where they arent eaten

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by VTR on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 12:57 pm

You forgot the long batting line up with the Test centurion (vs Pak as well!) coming in at number 9. The bowlers will be demoralised before they have even started!

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Duty281 on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 1:01 pm

Right so if England bat for 200 overs, they'll have about 700 runs, giving them a full day to bowl Pakistan out for the victory.

Job's a good 'un!

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 1:08 pm

Add in that they cant get both of our openers out because we only have one

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 1:10 pm

And Malik is likley too tired to bowl and field properly. Its really Englands game for the taking.

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 1:12 pm

Cook getting out handled ball off the second ball of the innings would have been... not the best way to start. Thankfully he engaged his brain just in time to decide it would be a rather silly thing to do Very Happy

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by kingraf on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 1:24 pm

VTR wrote:
kingraf wrote:
VTR wrote:No-one other than Pakistan knows how to play on these pitches. Teams visit every 4 or 5 years for a few matches then move on to other countries that at least offer a variety of surfaces, some history and even the odd crowd.

We got two series draws there. NZ got a draw.

How many people were in the ground to see those?

Your problem is the crowd then, not the curator or conditions. What exactly would you like Pakistan Cricket Board to do about that?
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Re: England in the UAE

Post by alfie on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 1:27 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Rashid and Ali's combined figures currently:
64-2-284-0.
Ali going at a tad above 4 an over while Rashid is pushing towards 5.

I wouldn't particularly blame either for not being tight (it's well known that's not their game) but I would question the wisdom of playing them as a combo. Anyway, that tune is played for now. Maybe they can pick up the odd wicket as the declaration gets nearer.


Well I do agree that Ali and Rashid probably aren't a great combination (at least not at the this stage of the latter's career - which might be a short one if he doesn't have a lot of mental strength to come back from this very disappointing debut !)
Tredwell would have been a reasonable " holding " option.  But he'd probably have to play in place of Ali , to make any sort of attacking plan , would he not ?

Outside Asia , England aren't going to play two spinners at all.  Nor should they. So , from the present crop , Ali is the logical choice as he offsets his lack of true class with more than handy batting. To replace him for the subcontinental tours with a non- batting spinner of less than stellar quality doesn't seem a great move for the continuity that they seem to prize...

Panesar and Swann did pretty well last time in UAE ; but England still lost 3-0.  I fancy the result of this series will be down to whether England can bat properly , as they failed to do then.  Get enough runs and they'll bowl Pakistan out eventually , one way or another.
As long as Bell stays out of the slips Smile

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Re: England in the UAE

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Oct 2015, 1:29 pm

Moeen Ali opening in a test

What a time to be alive
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Re: England in the UAE

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