What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by seanmichaels on Fri 09 Oct 2015, 11:00 am

First topic message reminder :

Finding this story and the hysteria from the West / NATO a bit confusing.

seanmichaels
seanmichaels
seanmichaels

Posts : 13321
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Virgin

Back to top Go down


What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by Hero on Sat 10 Oct 2015, 2:29 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Everyone can, Duty, but those who feel the need to constantly refer any negativity they can to Muslims, in whatever form we are talking here, are people I struggle with. I struggle to believe the Gobbler retains just an issue with Islamists and extremists.

I find this need some people have to highlight the ills of some Muslims to be miserable. And that it becomes some weird point-scoring game where they are happy if a Muslim commits any atrocity so they can use it to paint any Muslim as a foe.

I don't like any bigot.

Why? He hasn't said anything negative about moderate Muslims, to the best of my knowledge.

So how have you arrived at such a conclusion?

Inference from other posts on other topics which I cannot bother to look for, combined with an apparent fascination with just the extremists that align themselves with Islam.

There's a very "Britain First" feel. Much reading between the lines, I'm sure, but I'm not the only one to come to this conclusion, and there isn't much shock that you are defending him.

Well this is a thread, predominantly, about ISIS, so it's no surprise to see him commenting on the extremist faction of Islam.

And, equally, it's no shock to see myself defending him. As a believer in freedom of speech (something that Islam doesn't cater for) it's rather hurtful to see him post a perfectly valid viewpoint, and then for you to come in with your vast intolerance and sweeping inferences on what he is saying.

I'm not getting into this with you, Duty, as you have a certain mindset in arguments like this and have zero wiggle-room on opinion. The other posts on other topics thing would have been pretty clear, and the fact that talking about ISIS doesn't mean inferences can be made, as ever with some, to Muslims as a whole.

But hey, GG will be happy. He was annoyed that people like me were too tolerant of the Lee Rigby murder, so being less tolerant of his views can only be a step in the right direction

Everyone has a certain mindset, formed of their beliefs and opinions. I don't like Islam, or any religion that I have come across for that matter, and I don't like the extremist aspects of any religion, particularly Islam and Christianity. I'm perfectly open-minded, hence why I have read the Bible and the Quran, or other works of literature promoting ideas that I disagree with. I try to see things from both sides before arriving at a conclusion that I'm happy with.

When I'm presented with a opinion that I disagree with, I'm perfectly happy to debate it, and appreciate that what the other person is saying is a wholly valid point of view to hold. That is the essence of free speech. I don't say things like...oh I don't know:

"I've been exposed to your comments like someone gets exposed to Ebola. I wish it hadn't happened and don't feel better for it. Sickened too."

But as someone so intelligent, you cannot understand exaggeration nor how your arrogance in this matter is actually insulting to people too.

Now, with this wonderful intelligence, you didnt understand the connotation of certain in that context, and you shouldnt underestimate how empty and disingenuous I find you saying that you "appreciate that what the other person is saying is a wholly valid point of view to hold."

Funnily enough, it is perfectly within my rights of free speech to belittle his opinion as so. It is funny when people use these buzz words and phrases to make themselves seem pure and genuine, when really they are trying to raise themselves above other people. Equally, what I have said in that simile, which is then explained, is that I wish I hadn't heard his opinion and I don't feel better for doing so. Based of course on his comment that I am merely standing against his opinion because I'm closed minded. Which it wasn't, its because its the refrain of someone who would espouse hatred based on a stance of bigotry.

Personally, I think it is very narrow-minded to dislike a religion and show a lack of respect for people holding those beliefs. You can have read the bible and the Qu'ran, even if you'll forgive me for not taking your word for it, but it mattered little  as your opinion was made up and it wasn't the words in those pages that you had any issue you when questioning faith.

I am not a religious man, but I respect and often envy those with faith. Some of the stuff OneTwo comes out with on here I consider bonkers, but it is only when preached as hate against anyone that I would consider it an affront.

I won't apologise for being a little more sensitive to bigots, homophobes, racists and the like. They get away with bullying people too freely as it is.

It is indeed within your rights of free speech to belittle his opinion, but it doesn't show a particular openness or willingness to engage with his point of view, which I believe is a closed-minded approach. He has not written anything remotely distasteful, you are merely inferring a lot of things that he might say, based on no evidence.

If I dislike a religion, it doesn't show a lack of respect for people holding such beliefs. In much the same way, I dislike socialism, but it doesn't mean I disrespect (for instance) Jeremy Corbyn. If a person wishes to believe in Yahweh, or Allah, then of course it is fine. I merely ask that such beliefs are not imposed on myself, that such beliefs have no effect on the legislature of this country, that such beliefs are not used to incite violence or hatred, and that children are not indoctrinated.

You mention how you are sensitive to bigots and homophobes. Perfectly fair.

The Quran is riddled with bigotry, misogyny and homophobia - yet it is narrow-minded for me to dislike it? I would happily quote you a few verses from the Quran, but I don't think that is allowed on this board.

It is riddled with it, but so too is the Bible (Old Testament).

Hero
Founder
Founder

Posts : 28272
Join date : 2012-03-02
Age : 43
Location : Work toilet

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 10 Oct 2015, 2:30 pm

Duty281 wrote:
You mention how you are sensitive to bigots and homophobes. Perfectly fair.

The Quran is riddled with bigotry, misogyny and homophobia - yet it is narrow-minded for me to dislike it? I would happily quote you a few verses from the Quran, but I don't think that is allowed on this board.

It is faith I have no issue with, there are problems within most religious texts in my opinion, and obviously I would have faith of my own if I believed everything in these texts. I have no problem with you disliking the texts, the religion as a whole and those religious people would be a problem for moi.

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22909
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by Duty281 on Sat 10 Oct 2015, 2:34 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
You mention how you are sensitive to bigots and homophobes. Perfectly fair.

The Quran is riddled with bigotry, misogyny and homophobia - yet it is narrow-minded for me to dislike it? I would happily quote you a few verses from the Quran, but I don't think that is allowed on this board.

It is faith I have no issue with, there are problems within most religious texts in my opinion, and obviously I would have faith of my own if I believed everything in these texts. I have no problem with you disliking the texts, the religion as a whole and those religious people would be a problem for moi.

Ah...well I dislike the religion as a whole as well. I'll allow the wonderful Christopher Hitchens to take it from here:


Duty281

Posts : 20884
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 10 Oct 2015, 2:37 pm

And I don't want to engage with his point of view, because it is far removed from what I can accept.

I'd agree with the hope religion doesnt affect our legislature, but I think we'd have to worry first about removing the Christian influence before stopping any other religions have an impact.

It is similar to how I laugh every time I see school assembly planning with the notation that each week must focus on a "British Value". None of them are remotely specific to Britain. It is a churlish appeasement to people who scream about the sanctity of what it means to be British, cherry-picking aspects that appeal remotely to their viewpoint and ignoring that our nation changes and that the values we espouse should be beneficial to people, not to an image of Britain.

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22909
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 10 Oct 2015, 2:38 pm

See, I think Hitchens is a d!ck, as I do with Dawkins and similar folk.

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22909
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by kingraf on Sat 10 Oct 2015, 3:25 pm

So is the problem Putin, them Ay-Rabs or Aemericuh?
kingraf
kingraf
raf
raf

Posts : 16127
Join date : 2012-06-06
Age : 25
Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 10 Oct 2015, 3:38 pm

I think we should just let them get on with it..

Let's stop being world police..

Plenty of people need looking after here...


TRUSSMAN66

Posts : 38780
Join date : 2011-02-02

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by navyblueshorts on Sat 10 Oct 2015, 8:21 pm

greengoblin wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
greengoblin wrote:Russia are doing the right thing. The idiots that are the leaders of the liberal west need to realise that the middle east needs dictators to have any kind of stability. The removal of Gadaffi and Sadam Hussein has  been a tragic but completely foreseeable disaster.
picard

Navy blue shorts, how about you try to respond to my post with an argument of your own. I know it might be difficult for you, but everyone has to start somewhere. Do you think fundamentalist Islam is compatible with democracy?
Absolutely. Happy to oblige. I'll take the sentence I highlighted.

For a start, I take exception to your nonsensical depiction of the "West's" leaders as idiots by default, as if you know better. Second, reading between the words (you didn't write enough lines), your supercilious, arrogant, racist(?) and 19th Century imperialist assumption that the people of the middle east are by definition incapable of anything democratic and can only understand dictatorial governments is pretty disgusting. One of the lowest comments here I've seen in recent times.

To take your final point, no I don't think fundamentalist Islam is compatible with democracy....but that wasn't the point you were making initially was it? If you had started with that remark, instead of the superior-sounding bollox, I'd almost certainly have agreed with you.

greengoblin wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He can't be bothered explaining that Countries with no democracy are a bad idea ...probably.

Probably realises you are a bit silly in disposition.

Why is it necessarily bad if it mean peace? Only silly and dangerous idealists think otherwise.
So, you think North Korea, or maybe Zimbabwe, is a model to aspire to eh?
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts

Posts : 8341
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by greengoblin on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 4:54 pm

I'd suggest you learn from yesterday or face a longer punishment

The western leaders have been idiots, responsible for the deaths of millions due to their arrogance. Also, fighting muslim extremism abroad while importing muslims was utterly irresponsible.

I do think most muslim countries are better off as dictatorship, otherwise you get what we have now, with Isis taking human savagery to incomprehensible depths. Maybe that's better though, at least there's no nasty dictator.

When did I say dictatorships were ideal? I am a pragmatist. Where they are the difference between peace and mass atrocities and chaos, the humanitarian choice is dictatorship.

This is the compassionate position.

greengoblin

Posts : 256
Join date : 2014-11-12

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 4:59 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think we should just let them get on with it..

Let's stop being world police..

Plenty of people need looking after here...


Nail on the head. thumbsup

The US leading its puppy the UK behind likes to think it is the moral police force of the world. Lets look at how they've screwed up this world with their interventions. Libya they bombed and got rid of a stable government (because they never agreed with it) and that country is now a shell of its former self. The Gulf War was sold to us all on lies and achieved naff all but got people's backs up. Afghanistan as well is now in chaos after the self-appointed global police waded in. Now the same is happening in Syria. When will they ever learn?
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18945
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 51
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by greengoblin on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 5:28 pm

CaledonianCraig, that is what I am saying. The problem is the neo liberals who think they can go around handing out peace.


greengoblin

Posts : 256
Join date : 2014-11-12

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by Volcanicash on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 5:59 pm

I honestly don't get why the USA and Britain are so toxically against Russia.  Putin and Assad may not be the "nicest" leaders around, but what is worse, Assad or Isis?  Is assad sending terrorists to the likes of Paris, ankara, other parts of europe to commit atrocities?

Is Assad and Putin worse than Stalin, who we were perfect happy to ally with in WW2 to defeat nazism? I don't think so.

Its so strange that the US and Britain(not to mention the eu) criticize these russian bombings of so called freedom fighters, with one group called al-nusra who areheavily linked with Al qaeda; you know, the  war on terror bin laden bad guys, in their current campaign, with calls that they are going to fail when they only been involved for just over a week.

Strange, dangerous business.

Volcanicash

Posts : 133
Join date : 2011-09-13

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 6:36 pm

greengoblin wrote:CaledonianCraig, that is what I am saying. The problem is the neo liberals who think they can go around handing out peace.


Yes I get that. This meddling in other countries affairs has now been going on since the 1960s. We have seen the US leap into political bed with Israel and blindly follow and support whatever atrocities that country carries out and since then it has happened in other middle eastern countries. They should keep their beaks out and let the countries in turmoil rectify their own affairs.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18945
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 51
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:30 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think we should just let them get on with it..

Let's stop being world police..

Plenty of people need looking after here...




Nail on the head. thumbsup

The US  leading its puppy the UK behind likes to think it is the moral police force of the world. Lets look at how they've screwed up this world with their interventions. Libya they bombed and got rid of a stable government (because they never agreed with it) and that country is now a shell of its former self. The Gulf War was sold to us all on lies and achieved naff all but got people's backs up. Afghanistan as well is now in chaos after the self-appointed global police waded in. Now the same is happening in Syria. When will they ever learn?

The USA under Obama has been tolerant to say the least...Seems like many Brits still think Bush is President....


Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ....)

TRUSSMAN66

Posts : 38780
Join date : 2011-02-02

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:36 pm

Volcanicash wrote:I honestly don't get why the USA and Britain are so toxically against Russia.  Putin and Assad may not be the "nicest" leaders around, but what is worse, Assad or Isis?  Is assad sending terrorists to the likes of Paris, ankara, other parts of europe to commit atrocities?

Is Assad and Putin worse than Stalin, who we were perfect happy to ally with in WW2 to defeat nazism? I don't think so.

Its so strange that the US and Britain(not to mention the eu) criticize these russian bombings of so called freedom fighters, with one group called al-nusra who areheavily linked with Al qaeda; you know, the  war on terror bin laden bad guys, in their current campaign, with calls that they are going to fail when they only been involved for just over a week.

Strange, dangerous business.

Russia's bombing is all over the place......Don't you read the news...

We like Al Queda so much we went into Afghanistan and built Guantanimo..

Do me a favor..


TRUSSMAN66

Posts : 38780
Join date : 2011-02-02

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by Hero on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 8:20 pm

Well it was Amnesty International that recently stated Israel have committed war crimes and crimes against Humanity after the conflict last year in which Palestine suffered 2,251 deaths of which 1,462 were civilains whilst Israel suffered 67 military deaths & 6 civilians.
There's retaliation, and then there's obliteration.

Hero
Founder
Founder

Posts : 28272
Join date : 2012-03-02
Age : 43
Location : Work toilet

Back to top Go down

What is the problem with the Russian bombings? - Page 2 Empty Re: What is the problem with the Russian bombings?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum