PGA Tour: What Happens in Vegas: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 21 Oct 2015, 6:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Great win last week for Emiliano Grillo. No surprise here that he's won in his rookie year, just surprised that the win came so soon. He's riding a wave of confidence that has tended to be conspicuously absent when in contention in Europe; no idea why that is, but it's great for Grillo and great for Golf while it lasts.

2).Lots being made about Grillo being just another young buck off the Young Golfers conveyor belt, and it's true enough that the PGA Tour hasn't seen a golfer in his 30's or 40's in the winners enclosure since Zach Johnson and Scott Piercy. But it also signals the third Tour win by an Argentinian in the past 16 months, when Cabrera swaggered home at The Greenbrier. We saw Gomez walking in Memphis and now Grillo. In that time, the only English winner has been Justin Rose; plenty of Rory of course, and two from Ireland, but England is drawing mostly blanks.

3).Last wins:
Casey: 2009
Donald: 2012
Poulter: 2012
Westwood: 2010  
Let's not even go there with Davis, Fisher, Owen, you name him.
Edinburgh bus riders lament Poulter's form, but most English efforts on the PGA Tour have floundered recently, Casey's two 2015 Play-Off losses arguably being the exception which doesn't prove the rule.

4).Let's not leave Silverado and the "Frys" without noting that Frys have ended their sponsorship, handing the excellent Silverado event to Safeway supermarkets.
Another example of Finchem's genius in seemingly pulling sponsorship rabbits out of his hat, the only tournament currently without a title sponsor for 2015/2016, as far as I can see, is the traditional Fort Worth stop, the Colonial National Invitation, at Colonial Country Club. Expect Finchem to reveal what's under his chapeau shortly.

5).Interesting news from the Jordan Spieth camp that he'll play the Singapore Open in late January. So Spieth dodges the Farmers Insurance Open in San Diego.
Attaboy Jordan, way to reward the sponsor who gave you your first invitation as a Pro.

6).Following in the footsteps of Tiger Woods of course, and Tiger's back in the news, reporting that: "I'm not that far removed from winning". And "It's important for me to have more than 18 Majors when all is said and done". It would be important for most of us.

7).Anyway, that end of January date is beginning to look cluttered on the world's golfing calendars. Not only does "Singapore" clash with San Diego, it also bumps heads with "Qatar".

8).The British golfers with the best recent record in Las Vegas are Martin Laird (win, play-off loss) and Russell Knox (who arguably should've won last year). Obvious similarities between Bonnie and the Nevada desert. Rickie Fowler and Jimmy Walker make their first appearance since the Presidents Cup and it's another decent field. The winner will earn 44 owgr points, 25% better than Ben Martin and Webb Simpson added the past two years.

9).Next weekend sees the final "regular season" event on the Champions Tour. Bernhard Langer won last week's San Antonio stop and goes to California in a virtual tie with Colin Montgomerie and Jeff Maggert for the bonanza known as the Charles Schwab Cup. Langer's Champions Tour career has been remarkable. He now has 25 wins, tied with Dr.Gil Morgan for third all-time behind just Hale Irwin (45) and Lee Trevino (29). Perhaps more impressive is that Langer has won all these tournaments in an era of about 22 events per year, unlike the 30+ a decade and more ago.
He'll likely finish this season with $16M in his Champions Tour career behind just Irwin, Morgan, Haas and Kite.
And, of those golfers who can reasonably be considered contemporaries in this era of fewer events, those under 65, Langer has eight more wins than his closest rival, Jay Haas:
25: Langer
17: Haas
13: Loren Roberts
11: Couples
10: John Cook

10).Lots about the 30th anniversary of Back to the Future so, in 1985:
~Curtis Strange was leading money winner with $542K. Followed by Lanny Wadkins, Peete, Thorpe, Floyd, Pavin, Sutton, Maltbie, Mahaffey, O'Meara.
~Langer was leading non-American, in 13th with $271K, or about the same as his Champo winnings last Sunday!
~Langer, North, Lyle and Hubert Green won the year's Majors.
~And Europe won the Ryder Cup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Teams: Lyle, Torrance, Woosie, Langer, Faldo, Ken Brown, Rivero, Ballesteros, Paul Way, Canizares, Pinero, Clark.
Green, Strange, Wadkins, Floyd, Kite, North, Zoeller, Stadler, Peete, O'Meara, Sutton, Jacobsen.
All our (mine anyway!) yesterdays.


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Post by GPB on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 10:43 pm

Kwini, long putter is not banned yet on PGATour

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Post by incontinentia on Sat 24 Oct 2015, 3:58 pm

There's now a poll on the secret tour pro twitter asking if he's Bernd Wiesberger, perhaps he's about to expose himself?
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Post by pedro on Sun 25 Oct 2015, 12:39 am

Maybe he's The Stig.

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Post by Roller_Coaster on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 11:41 am

It's well known that the Stig uses a forged Mitsubishi Evo 10 for his laps in the reasonably priced car, it just has Suzuki Liana badges on it...

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 2:20 pm


Reports on the European Tour web-site that Brooks Koepka is withdrawing from his forthcoming European Tour commitments, including the WGC-HSBC, and forfeiting his place on the Order Of Merit.

Wouldn't be surprised to see more PGA Tour withdrawals from the WGC; Poults must still have a chance of making the field as an alternate.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 2:28 pm

Another one of those danged double dippers not keeping up Kwini?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 2:36 pm

Wink My thoughts exactly!
But he played 23 PGA Tour events with sharply diminishing returns, last six US events have been pretty dismal. Wise to take a breather.

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Post by McLaren on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 2:57 pm

I still don't get the resistance to accept that it is becoming increasingly difficult to double dip. As I agreed Brooks Koepka looked like someone who had bucked the trend, but I wonder if he has the same frustrations recently put forward by McIlroy about the extreme travel. Brooks was doing ok performance wise, but I assume he thinks focusing on the PGAT is the best way to cement his place in the OWGR.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 3:05 pm

WGC-HSBC:
It looks as if Poulter is up to second alternate ("subject to change", after Tyrrell Hatton and Russell Knox).

As far as I can see, these eligible golfers from the owgr Top Fifty list are not among the WGC-HSBC commitments:
Day,
Justin Rose
Koepka
Zach Johnson
Furyk
Jimmy Walker
Mickelson
Bill Haas
Charley Hoffman
Ryan Palmer

There may be other absentees from other qualification categories.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 4:32 pm

Mac,
I made the point about 23 x PGA Tournaments deliberately! No way can a top player play 23 times on one Tour and fulfil the obligations of another without it affecting his game, in my view anyway.

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Post by McLaren on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 4:57 pm

Kwini

It was a good point and I agree with you. A major part of my double dip failure model is that it is very hard to compete with guys over a whole season who play 5-10 more events than you do.


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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 5:27 pm

Mac,
That clearly depends on one's definition of "compete".
I'm a contrarian here who regards a golfer's legacy at the very highest level by the Majors he's won, not the R2D or FedEx bonuses he's pocketed.
If "compete" means winning money races, double-dipping makes it doubly difficult, although exceptional years by Donald, Rory and Stenson have proved it can be done.
But "compete" in terms of being prepared to play your best at the absolute pinnacle of the game, then I disagree with you. Or at least agree to differ.

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Post by GPB on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 5:53 pm

I don't think Kuchar is in the HSBC field Kwini.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 6:24 pm

I see that! I wrote his name down too!!

Good point on your other thread about Hongkers; pretty shameful that pros, many/most of them journeymen, have to travel 6,000 miles for such a paltry purse. Especially considering the sponsor for whom it's likely no more than a glorified tax write-off.
Freaky result in Las Vegas makes it look even worse of course.

And what position did Lucky the 1st play?!?

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Post by Davie on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 7:54 pm

McLaren wrote:A major part of my double dip failure model ....

Oooh Mac has a double dip failure model ... laughing

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Post by I'm never wrong on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 11:08 pm

Taramasalata and hummus?

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Post by raycastleunited on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 1:35 pm

Davie wrote:
McLaren wrote:A major part of my double dip failure model ....

Oooh Mac has a double dip failure model ... laughing

That's impressive stuff mac. You talk about this topic with complete authority. Have you constructed this model so that you can run scenario analysis and look at sensitivity analysis etc?

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Post by McLaren on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 1:37 pm

Is this a fair comment?


Secret Tour Pro @secrettourpro wrote:#TruthTuesday Playing on the PGA Tour is like playing premiership football, the European Tour is like the Championship! #SummingItUp

@secrettourpro
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Post by raycastleunited on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 1:51 pm

McLaren wrote:Is this a fair comment?


Secret Tour Pro @secrettourpro wrote:#TruthTuesday Playing on the PGA Tour is like playing premiership football, the European Tour is like the Championship! #SummingItUp

@secrettourpro

PGA tour is more like Premiership or La Liga and Euro Tour another European league like France or Portugal. French league has teams like PSG who can compete with anyone, but outside the big teams the quality isn't there. Prem on the other hand usually has 18 teams capable of beating anyone on their day.

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Post by super_realist on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 1:55 pm

Wait a minute, PGA is the "top" tour, so comparing it to the Premiership is doing it a diservice as that isn't the best league.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 2:17 pm

Unfortunately, quality of life in North America is so often Championship level vs Premiership level in Europe.

Generalities as in so many things.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 2:23 pm

I got the impression the comment was based on factors like infrastructure, the way the players are treated, media attention, money, kudos and other qualities adding to the each tours prestige and not the quality of the players.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 2:31 pm

America's public infrastructure is crumbling, and Congress is intent on keeping it that way.

So long as our friends have NetJets and Wheels Up . . . . . . . .

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Post by Shotrock on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 2:56 pm

The sky is falling ... the sky is falling! Wink

Mac is spot on -- the $, logistics, ease of travel, creature comforts for players at the venue, general course conditioning all contribute to making the big tour the big tour. It's no wonder the best in the world compete on this tour more than any other. Did I mention the money?

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Post by super_realist on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 2:59 pm

I don't think anyone doubts that SR, the contention is the comparison with a league that ISN'T the best.


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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 3:13 pm

Of course the PGA Tour has the best players, the best money, the most prestige, not to mention most of the Majors and WGC's.

So long as the Members have access to all the goodies available to the top 3% of Americans and don't have to put up with the crap that the other 97% of us have to deal with, of course the PGA Tour seems a league apart.

But don't have Mac rabbitting on about things like "infrastructure", at least not that outside Tour Members protective bubble. Why Mac, hardly any City has a bus-service, such as Edinburgh's, that you could use, for instance.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 3:18 pm

super_realist wrote:Wait a minute, PGA is the "top" tour, so comparing it to the Premiership is doing it a disservice as that isn't the best league.

I'd argue all he is doing is describing the difference between the two tours as similar to the difference between the two leagues. Something we in the UK can easily reference.
They could have easily said the difference between Sunday League Pub team and Division One. Its the difference he's talking about.


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Post by super_realist on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 3:18 pm

Very typical of Mac to bring something completely irrelevant into the discussion.

In any event, as a league, the Championship is better than the Premiership. It's more competitive, more surprise winners, anyone can genuinely beat one another. The only thing it lacks is the money.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 3:44 pm

Kwini

All the factors I listed were exclusively applied to PGAT events and not the US as a whole.  I clearly wouldn't argue that the US has better infrastructure compared to Europe.


Super

The comparison was used to highlight a difference, the gap, however you want to put it.  Not that the EPL is the best and the championship the second best.  If you need this explained in even simpler terms consider that 100-99 and 2-1 produce the same difference.

Shotrock

:thumbsup:


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Post by Davie on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 3:46 pm

He just wanted to draw attention away from his double dip failure model laughing

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Post by McLaren on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 3:57 pm

Davie

What issue do you have with the use of "model"?

What word would you have liked me to use?
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Post by Shotrock on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 4:13 pm

Hey, I attended an MLS game this Sunday (Philadelphia/Orlando) and last year went to White Hart Lane to see the Hotspur!

Fine play at both venues, but even to my untrained eye the EPL considerably superior.

Nutty/crunchy fans in Philadelphia ... but less involved with the game (save for the Son's Of Ben cheering section) v Tottenham.

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Post by hend085 on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 4:32 pm

McLaren wrote:Davie

What issue do you have with the use of "model"?

What word would you have liked me to use?

you dont have a model you have a hypothesis

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 4:34 pm

One is reminded at times like this about Sandy Lyle's extremely bon mot "about 100 years"!


Sr,
Played GCofN on Saturday in high 30's temps with a 25mph wind, about a sub-freezing windchill. East wind with 12 (hate the new tee) and 17 playing downwind, very unusual. Nightmare.

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Post by Shotrock on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 6:06 pm

You are of heartier stock than I these days Kwin. My Mendoza line is 45F ... lower than that I'll play "flask" assisted golf only!

Any leaves still on the trees?

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Post by McLaren on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 6:21 pm

Kwini

Just for you.  Wink

Lexi:
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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 6:44 pm

Sr,
I used to watch Super Mario from comfortable seats by Buddy Bell's 3rd base at the (very cosy) old Texas Ballpark; all glove and no bat, but a famous name for all that!

Mac,
I know you put Lexi Thompson on a Tiger-type pedestal (or ceiling poster) but I think she's pretty hideous, not attractive in any way.
Not a big fan of any of that clan, glad to see Nitro's back in web.comland, and hope the other brother stays there.

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Post by pedro on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 9:02 pm

Secret Tour Pro @secrettourpro wrote:#TruthTuesday Playing on the PGA Tour is like playing premiership football, ...

Full of overpaid, ignorant, spoilt whiners? Probably.

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Post by sirbenson on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 12:02 am

Kind of shocked by Brooks's move but I suppose Ryder Cup is one of his main priorities for next year after being left out of the Presidents Cup move so it makes sense to focus on one tour!

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 10:20 am

Reports that Henrik Stenson will undergo minor knee operation in December to repair a damaged meniscus.
That'll cramp his style, not to mention compromise his ability to fulfil dual Tour obligations.
Somewhere McLaren is smiling!

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Post by McLaren on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 11:46 am

Serious point about double dipping. Will the increased synergy between the European and Asian tours further damage the chances of those trying to double dip?
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Post by pedro on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 12:33 pm

I wonder if Stensons knee problems are due to playing golf or too much flying?

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Post by raycastleunited on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 1:10 pm

super_realist wrote:In any event, as a league, the Championship is better than the Premiership. It's more competitive, more surprise winners, anyone can genuinely beat one another. The only thing it lacks is the money.

And the quality. But mainly the money.

I know you like to slate the quality of the premiership, and I hate what it's become too, but if you ever watch a Championship game you quickly realise the gulf in class is huge.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 3:26 pm

Obviously it lacks in quality compared to the Premier, one can use hyperbole. However, given that Wednesday pumped Arsenal last night, perhaps the gulf isn't that great.

However, in general, I think it's a better league. The EPL is a bit like F1, just a couple of teams capable of winning (and frequently only one). Actually a very boring league in all reality, just dressed up with a fake veneer of showbiz by Murdoch

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