Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

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Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 7:57 am

Here's a thread for the 2nd Test which has just got underway

Teams:

Pakistan: Mohammed Hafeez, Shan Masood, Shoaib Malik, Younis Khan, Misbah-ul-Haq*, Asad Shafiq, Sarfraz Ahmed†, Wahab Riaz, Yasir Shah, Zulfiqar Babar, Imran Khan

England: AN Cook*, MM Ali, IR Bell, JE Root, JM Bairstow, BA Stokes, JC Buttler†, AU Rashid, SCJ Broad, MA Wood, JM Anderson

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 7:58 am

Pakistan won the toss and elected to bat, and are making good use of that so far reaching 41-0 after an hour

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 9:00 am

England have pulled it back with 2 wickets which has put things back in the balance.

Good to see England treating short leg as a specialist fielding position with the excellent Bairstow placed there

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by KP_fan on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 9:12 am

Pak won the toss batting first...eng having to bat last on what should be a spin friendly pitch going by reputations and track record......easy for Pak on paper.......BUT
with the last game Eng have risen their stature and reputation a LOT......so it's hard to predict.
Hope the pitch allows for a more competitive game all the way
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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 9:40 am

As usual, Atherton talking a lot of sense during the interval. Having lost the toss in these conditions, ''the key thing is to stay in the game on first innings'' and England have done that so far with two wickets for not too many.

Haven't watched much today but saw the two good catches by Bairstow. The second was close to outstanding. His reactions were really impressive as his upper body initially went back upon being struck and then he had the presence of mind to sight the ball and dive forward to snaffle it.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 9:49 am

England certainly staying in the game now as Jimmy gets Masood first ball after lunch to an edge behind. Reviewed after a chat with his colleague Younus (that's normally a give away - if you didn't make contact, do you really need to talk it over so much?) but eventually the ''out'' decision was upheld. Clear edge for me on the first playback.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 9:55 am

guildfordbat wrote:England certainly staying in the game now as Jimmy gets Masood first ball after lunch to an edge behind. Reviewed after a chat with his colleague Younus (that's normally a give away - if you didn't make contact, do you really need to talk it over so much?) but eventually the ''out'' decision was upheld. Clear edge for me on the first playback.

That's a very handy wicket. I was just about to post how key this session is from the lunchtime score. Had the potential for Pakistan to kick on to say 170-3 which starts to look dominant (that outcome is still on of course!)

Or England could strike early and something like 150-6 would put England well on top

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 9:59 am

VTR wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:England certainly staying in the game now as Jimmy gets Masood first ball after lunch to an edge behind. Reviewed after a chat with his colleague Younus (that's normally a give away - if you didn't make contact, do you really need to talk it over so much?) but eventually the ''out'' decision was upheld. Clear edge for me on the first playback.

That's a very handy wicket. I was just about to post how key this session is from the lunchtime score. Had the potential for Pakistan to kick on to say 170-3 which starts to look dominant (that outcome is still on of course!)

Or England could strike early and something like 150-6 would put England well on top

I was wondering where Craig is and whether his road map covers the UAE?! Wink

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 10:04 am

Haven't seen him on here since The Ashes. "Road" map is a very apt term for cricket on some of these UAE pitches!

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 10:21 am

VTR wrote:Haven't seen him on here since The Ashes. "Road" map is a very apt term for cricket on some of these UAE pitches!
clap Laugh

Currently 104/3. Certainly our day so far but I'm greedy for another wicket to strengthen England's position. 4 down for 120 odd and things would really be looking good ....

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 11:44 am

Good recovery by Younus and Misbah as they guide Pakistan to 178/3 off 55 overs at tea.

Ali and Rashid causing the odd problem both lacking consistency and fairly expensive. 1/82 off their combined 20 overs. Difficult for them but not a winning first innings combo imo.

Day could still end up belonging to either side but atm it's looking like it'll be Pakistan's ...

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 11:54 am

Yes I think this is getting away from England now. Pakistan will be looking at 300 at close with 4 or 5 down at worse. That's a very healthy position to kick on from and they know that England batting big like in the first test isn't going to happen too often

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 12:13 pm

Second session to Pakistan after that early wicket of Jimmy's : their two best batsmen at the crease on a good first day pitch so that isn't too surprising.
And there is the break !

Wood and Buttler combine ...bit of a strangle , but...

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 12:20 pm

alfie wrote:Second session to Pakistan after that early wicket of Jimmy's : their two best batsmen at the crease on a good first day pitch so that isn't too surprising.
And there is the break !

Wood and Buttler combine ...bit of a strangle , but...

You can tell you're a bowler, Alfie! What do you mean ''bit of''? Complete - more like! Very Happy

Anyway, as you suggest, we'll take it and do probably deserve that piece of fortune.

Things again looking in the balance for both teams. A good Test in every sense at this early stage.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 12:22 pm

So : as I was about to say , before being interrupted by that - very welcome - wicket ...

"The interesting part will come when - if - the two veterans are separated. If England can then prise out another wicket ( or more ?)before the new ball becomes available , then they'll be pretty happy with their position after losing the toss."

Well now of course the separation has come ; England need to really attack the new batsman for a spell. Bring Jimmy back on ? Burst from Rashid ?

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 12:26 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:Second session to Pakistan after that early wicket of Jimmy's : their two best batsmen at the crease on a good first day pitch so that isn't too surprising.
And there is the break !

Wood and Buttler combine ...bit of a strangle , but...

You can tell you're a bowler, Alfie! What do you mean ''bit of''? Complete - more like! Very Happy

Anyway, as you suggest, we'll take it and do probably deserve that piece of fortune.

Things again looking in the balance for both teams. A good Test in every sense at this early stage.

Ha ! Well we bowl a lot of good balls that don't get rewarded ...any ball that gets a wicket has something going for it , I say Smile

Have to say apart from that wicket Wood has actually bowled a few good 'uns recently. Had Misbah in a bit of bother just then...

Next wicket is very important I reckon.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 12:40 pm

That wicket brings England back into it, can they get 2 or 3 more before close?

Not sure it was much of a strangle, sounded like a bat attempt to guide the ball to fine leg. So not a good ball but a poor shot

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 12:56 pm

68 overs gone so they should get their hands on a new ball well before the close. Ideally want at least one more wicket before then.

These two batting pretty well against some useful pace bowling : now Rashid back ; which could release the pressure a bit - though of course England will be hoping he can draw an error.

Similarities withe first game in that the quicks have had excellent control ; but the spinners have rather leaked runs.

All quite nicely balanced at present.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 1:07 pm

Anderson getting some useful reverse ...and the maidens are piling up...

Just got a feeling something might happen shortly.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 1:25 pm

Ah well I should know one can't promote a wicket that way Smile

What happened was a drink break and a couple of sixes off poor Rashid...

Jimmy still bowling so perhaps they aren't after a new ball this evening. Pakistan getting back on top here...

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 2:07 pm

At 255/4 Pakistan will be feeling quite good about the day. England would just love to grab a wicket tonight with this new ball...won't have many more overs I think as the light is fading fast.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 2:29 pm

So very similar to the first match : good old fashioned Test Cricket , good contest all day with Pakistan finishing in the box seat.
One more wicket and England would have been fairly happy with their efforts ; but after this partnership they are staring down a big total again unless things happen quickly tomorrow morning.
Misbah a fine hundred clap

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 2:32 pm

Not sure if that was brave or stupid from Misbah but a very dramatic end to what has very firmly been Pakistan's day.

I would not be surprised to see Pakistan declare on 550 from here - England are usually quite poor at restricting an innings once it gets to this sort of mark

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by KP_fan on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 3:11 pm

if the pitch was a typical spinning pitch, I would call it Pak's day

We don't know the pitch until the second side has batted so I will stay away from making a prediction on who is ahead.
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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 4:12 pm

VTR wrote:Not sure if that was brave or stupid from Misbah but a very dramatic end to what has very firmly been Pakistan's day.

I would not be surprised to see Pakistan declare on 550 from here - England are usually quite poor at restricting an innings once it gets to this sort of mark

I feel a large amount of hindsight has to be applied in making any judgement about Misbah and the final over but a quick story from yesteryear.

India's Bishen Bedi bowled his first over in Test cricket to Rohan Kanhai of the West Indies immediately before the lunch interval. The first five deliveries were all on the spot and quickly became dot balls. The sixth was also on the spot but Kanhai hit it for six. Kanhai later explained, ''He was bowling very well but I didn't want him to feel on top. I wanted him to worry over lunch.''

Besides being a world class batsman, Kanhai was also very much a thinking cricketer. I don't know Misbah well enough to make a proper comparison. However, just as Kanhai enjoyed his lunch more than Bedi all those years ago, I think it's fair to guess that Misbah with a ton to his name will be sleeping more comfortably tonight than Ali who for all his willingness is not in the same high spinning class as Bedi.

Still a lot that can happen in this game. A couple of early wickets tomorrow and we're back in the hunt. However, whilst agreeing with KP_f that we have to see both sides bat to make a fully proper judgement, I don't think many, if any, batting sides would decline having nearly 300 on the board for only 4 down at the end of day one if offered to them at the start. Thus, imo, Pakistan's day although we don't yet know by how much.

Credit to all the England bowlers for sticking at it. Once more I was more impressed with the seamers than the spinners but we've already had that dance. Of the fielding, particular credit to Bairstow for being noticed with two very fine (one was terrific) catches and to Buttler for going almost totally unnoticed whilst still also taking a couple - ok, MfC.Smile  As to the captaincy, Cook did at least ok - mixed the bowling up and didn't allow things to drift, just not especially his or our day.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 4:43 pm

We're gonna need to clean them up fairly quickly and ideally for under 400. With Yasir back in their ranks it'll be tough to pile up the runs we did last match
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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by msp83 on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 10:43 pm

Sarfraz is a fine wicketkeeper batsman, but beyond the 2 batting and him, there is nothing much in the Pak lower order. Wahab can use the long handle to slog effectively, the rest of them are largely useless with the bat. So if England get a couple of early wickets, then they still can contain Pakistan to around 400. That won't be a bad effort on this track, though they'll have to account for Yasir when they bat.
England spinners Rashid and Ali went for plenty, but the 4 seamers, all of whom bowled alright, give them enough room to play the 2 attacking spin options to cover for 2nd innings possibilities.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 11:26 pm

On tonight's The Verdict programme on Sky both Bob Willis and Aamir Sohail were critical of Cook in giving the two England spinners so many overs on day one. Willis emphasised that they bowled a third of the overs but conceded one half of the runs.

I followed the point but understood Cook's hand had been forced by the weather conditions. Willis didn't see it that way referring to there being less heat and more cloud cover than in the first Test.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 11:37 pm

So we have a 6 man attack, and the spinners bowled 33 overs out of 90.

That's about normal I'd say.
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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 11:49 pm

Olly - the point Sohail expressly made was that the seamers were bowling better and that if all four of them had bowled 18 overs as might normally be expected, it would have left only 18 overs to be shared by Ali and Rashid.

As said previously, I follow the logic but without knowing how hot and humid it was can't properly comment.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 7:24 am

If we are arguing that the spinners bowled too much I guess that firmly shuts up the "why do we need a 4th seamer" argument.


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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 8:23 am

England strike just as it looked like Pakistan were getting back on top. This could be interesting with that tail to come in....

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 8:35 am

Is this tail Pakistan's answer to Caddick/Giddens/Mullally/Tufnell?

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 8:53 am

Moeen had the best strike rate of any English spinner to get 50 wickets post war
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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by msp83 on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 8:56 am

Pakistan not learning the lesson, there is no need at all to go after Moeen Ali, he'll serve up the hit me stuff from time to time and you just have to be ready for it. But if you act too smart, you will be playing into Ali's and England's hands.
Wahab is the only semi decent bat holder in that Pakistan lower order and he's already back in the hut, but Shafiq is not giving up on them and has put together a bit of a partnership with Yasir.......

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 8:57 am

VTR wrote:Is this tail Pakistan's answer to Caddick/Giddens/Mullally/Tufnell?

It isn't strong , that's for sure...though Yasir hit a few before departing to give his opposite number a wicket at last...

England have done reasonably well so far today to work through four wickets ; need to nip out these last two cheaply now. Cook seems to have rotated his bowlers quite effectively - Wood now rejoins the attack. Will Shafiq go after him or just shield Zulfiqar and attack Rashid ?

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:10 am

Couldn't protect Zulfiqar enough ... Wood only needed one ball at him.

Nine down ; and still under 400 ...

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:10 am

Morning folks and evening Alfie - from what I've seen, Pakistan's tail can play more shots than England's infamous quartet flagged by VTR. However, the Pakistan guys seem to have the same amount of limited intelligence with the willow. Their only instruction and job should be ''Stay with Asad.'' Something not followed so far.

Any views on the Willis and Sohail comments about Cook over bowling the spinners on day one?

PS And with that - it looks a deserved second wicket for Wood as another of the tail goes lbw.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:18 am

I notice Wood hasn't been getting a very good press on here lately ; but I reckon he has been pretty good in this innings. Troubled some well set batsmen , bowled some surprise inswinging deliveries as well as aggressive short stuff : economical and two wickets are the least he has deserved.
If he can get a ball or two at Imran that will surely become three ...

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:23 am

The day Imran Khan scores a run will be a sad day for test cricket
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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by VTR on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:26 am

Olly wrote:The day Imran Khan scores a run will be a sad day for test cricket

I bet he's fuming to be stuck on a not out!

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by alfie on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:26 am

Imran gets red ink as the limping Shafiq falls ...

Wood gets the figures today ; 19.5 overs 3/39 clap

Good morning's work for England : 378 a lot less than seemed likely at yesterday's close.

Still need to bat well , mind.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by KP_fan on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:32 am

Good display by Eng......but 378 may just be a good fighting total
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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by msp83 on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:34 am

To bowl Pak out for 378 after the position they were at the end of day 1 is a very creditable performance from England. Now they will have to bat well and bat big. Yasir and Wahab will be key for Pakistan. The former is one of the better spinners in international cricket at present and the latter is an all condition bowler........ And of course Cook and Root the absolute key for England.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:37 am

Good drills form England so far. As has been note dthough the fear regarding how much joy the Pakaistani spinners will get remains. England have shown they have a lot more dog about them that the last team they sent out here, but the batting line up still looks deperately short of genuine big run scoring batsmen even if it has a lot more depth than Pakistans line up.

Pakistan conversly have all their eggs in the spin basket. Again wickets came form seam first up, if the pitch doesnt give too much turn and England can show the application they did for much of the first test then tehy could post a very big total. Anderson running down the middle of the pitch wont have helped them much though.

Should be a reuslt game even if the wicket proves little better than the last one.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:39 am

msp83 wrote:Pakistan not learning the lesson, there is no need at all to go after Moeen Ali, he'll serve up the hit me stuff from time to time and you just have to be ready for it. But if you act too smart, you will be playing into Ali's and England's hands.
....

Boycott said very similar during England's summer. ''As a batsman, you don't want him taken off. You want him kept on.''

Whilst I'm inclined to agree with you and Boycs, Ali keeps on plugging away and taking wickets.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by KP_fan on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:46 am

Gooseberry wrote:
Pakistan conversly have all their eggs in the spin basket. .

Wahab riaz and Imran khan are pretty good and fast seamers
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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:47 am

alfie wrote:...

Wood gets the figures today ; 19.5 overs 3/39 clap

Good morning's work for England : 378 a lot less than seemed likely at yesterday's close.

Still need to bat well , mind.

Perfect summary of the day so far with a necessary health warning concerning what we need to do next.

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:49 am

alfie wrote:I notice Wood hasn't been getting a very good press on here lately ; but I reckon he has been pretty good in this innings. Troubled some well set batsmen , bowled some surprise inswinging deliveries as well as aggressive short stuff : economical and two wickets are the least he has deserved.
If he can get a ball or two at Imran that will surely become three ...

Hes bounced back thats for sure. Lets face it though he only got a place due to Finns injury. Overall though the selectors have been proven right so far this series (Bairstow still has a point to prove mind, sharp catch aside)

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Re: Pakistan vs England 2nd Test

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Oct 2015, 9:50 am

KP_fan wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:  
Pakistan conversly have all their eggs in the spin basket. .

Wahab riaz and Imran khan are pretty good and fast seamers

2 of them. Think they'll be able to deliver 74 overs like Englands did?

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