F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Fernando on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 3:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

Only yesterday Austin was the new kid on the block, this weekend F1 returns to the Circuit of the Americas for the fourth time.

The venue made its debut on the F1 calendar in 2012 and was the scene of Lewis Hamilton's last victory in McLaren colours.

Drawing inspiration from tracks around the world when it came to designing the corners, the Circuit of the Americas has quickly become a favourite among drivers and fans.

The 2015 US GP in a nutshell

Track: Circuit of The Americas. Permanent circuit.

Race start time: 7pm UK time Sunday (2pm local).

Laps: 56.

Track length: 5.513 km.

Tyre allocation: Yellow (soft) and medium (white).

DRS Zones: Two with separate detection spots (Pit straight and between turns 11 and 12).

Driver steward: TBA.

Lap record: Kimi Raikkonen - 1:39.347 (Lotus, 2012).

2014 pole: Nico Rosberg - 1:36.067 (Mercedes).

Weather Forecast - Friday - Wet - Saturday - Wet - Sunday - Sunny with chance of showers - http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/austin-tx/78701/daily-weather-forecast/351193?day=1
Sky Sports F1's schedule

Thursday October 22

5pm - Drivers' Press Conference - Live!

Valtteri Bottas (Williams), Marcus Ericsson (Sauber), Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes), Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari), Daniel Ricciardo (Red Bull), Alexander Rossi (Manor)

11pm - Paddock Uncut

Friday October 23

3:45pm - US GP Practice One - Live!

7:45pm - US GP Practice Two - Live!

10pm - Team Principals' Press Conference - Live!

Eric Boullier (McLaren), Matthew Carter (Lotus), Christian Horner (Red Bull), Vijay Mallya (Force India), Franz Tost (Toro Rosso), Toto Wolff (Mercedes)

Midnight - The F1 Show - Live!

Saturday October 24

3:45pm - US GP Practice Three - Live!

6pm - US GP Qualifying - Live!

11:25pm - Ted's Qualifying Notebook.

Sunday October 25

5:30pm - The 2015 US GP - Track Parade - Live!

6pm - The 2015 US GP - Pit lane - Live!

6:30pm - The 2015 US GP - Race - Live!

9:30pm - The 2015 US GP - Paddock Live!

Monday October 26

12:45am - Ted's Race Notebook.

Form guide

Lewis Hamilton is the most successful driver at the Circuit of the Americas having won the race on two of the three occasions the US GP has been held at the venue. Sebastian Vettel is the only other man to have stood atop the CoTA podium.

2014 result: 1. Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes); 2. Nico Rosberg (Mercedes); 3. Daniel Ricciardo (Red Bull); 4. Felipe Massa (Williams); 5. Valtteri Bottas (Williams); 6. Fernando Alonso (Ferrari); 7. Sebastian Vettel, (Red Bull); 8. Kevin Magnussen (McLaren); 9. Pastor Maldonado (Lotus); 10. Jean-Eric Vernge (Toro Rosso).

Last five winners in the United States of America: 2014: Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes); 2013: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2012: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren); 2007: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren); 2006: Michael Schumacher (Ferrari)

Tyre allocation

As was the case in 2014 Pirelli will bring the yellow-marked soft and the white-banded medium tyres to Texas.

Fernando
Fernando
Fernando

Posts : 36423
Join date : 2011-01-26
Age : 28
Location : buckinghamshire

Back to top Go down


F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 2:10 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:there was absolutely no need for Lewis to go that wide and force Rosberg off

Again, this is RACING, this is two drivers fighting for a world championship. Nico has a poor start, Lewis gains the advantage & can smell the blood, of course he's going to force him wide, why would you not force your championship rival out wide? This isn't who plays nice, wins a world championship. Lewis had the inside line of the corner, forced him wide, with a controlled touch & gained the advantage, within the rules. It's what all the past great champions have done & I hope continue to do so. I can't believe people can't understand this or appreciate the ruthlessness of the move. Truly, truly bewildering.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 5:24 pm

It could be argued that Hamilton was either ahead or level coming into the corner but had the racing line. Rosberg should have yielded but instead tried to overtake on the outside round the corner. Hamilton racing line and speed through laws of physics pertaining to this universe caused his car to shift to the other side of the lane around the corner, edging Rosberg off the track. The point is either Hamilton or Rosberg would have had to yield - so the issue is about yielding. Hamilton had the racing line into the corner and was either level or ahead of Rosberg. Hamilton didn't yield, nor did Rosberg.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by GSC on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 6:33 pm

Rosbergs level with him all the way through the corner. He has to leave him room on the track.

Neither had to yield frankly, if Hamilton doesn't hit Rosberg both make the corner easily.
GSC
GSC

Posts : 38998
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 27
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 6:43 pm

GSC wrote:Rosbergs level with him all the way through the corner. He has to leave him room on the track.

Neither had to yield frankly, if Hamilton doesn't hit Rosberg both make the corner easily.
I think the issue is whether the momentum of Hamilton's car or slippiness of the corner caused Hamilton to drift in to Rosberg - or whether Hamilton deliberately nudged Rosberg off the track.  There is also "right of way" arguments if both don't want to yield.  I think it was David Coulthard that used the "racing line" type of argument, but then Coulthard is probably slightly biased.

That said this didn't ultimately affect the result of the race.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by GSC on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 6:51 pm

Its pretty simple though. If Rosbergs alongside him (and he was at all times), he has to leave him room on the track. If he made a mistake and overshot the corner, then he should have just let him back through and theres no issue.
GSC
GSC

Posts : 38998
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 27
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:15 pm

GSC wrote:Its pretty simple though. If Rosbergs alongside him (and he was at all times), he has to leave him room on the track

That's the view of a neutral fan, looking for fairness. You really don't understand what is required in competitive sport, do you? I'm surprised by you GSC, I'd thought you'd understand the necessary decisions a driver has to make, in order to succeed & rise to the top of his sport. F1 is cut-throat, it really isn't about 'playing nice'. The ruthlessness of Senna, Schumacher & Hamilton types, don't leave room for opponents to gain an advantage, they take the advantage for themselves. That's why they are multiple world champions, will be remembered amongst the greats of their respective era's & the reason the Rosberg name will be forgotten about in the history of the sport, other than his Dad's achievement.

That is pretty simple to understand.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:18 pm

GSC wrote:Its pretty simple though. If Rosbergs alongside him (and he was at all times), he has to leave him room on the track. If he made a mistake and overshot the corner, then he should have just let him back through and theres no issue.

Have you not stopped to think that you have seen similar tactics in the past - many far worse. Vettel did such moves, Schumacher took out his title rival to win the title and Senna was renowned for such driving. It is inbred into champions and is something that is lacking in Rosberg.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18945
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 51
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by GSC on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:19 pm

You really are after a response from me huh? I can guess why...

If you really want you can find the posts I made about #1 and #2 drivers, and Rosberg in general, I don't have the energy, nor the motivation to enable you.
GSC
GSC

Posts : 38998
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 27
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:23 pm

GSC wrote:You really are after a response from me huh? I can guess why...

If you really want you can find the posts I made about #1 and #2 drivers, and Rosberg in general, I don't have the energy, nor the motivation to enable you.

No there is no need.

Champion drivers have always been ruthless, selfish and aggressive drivers who will do what it takes to win at all costs. Hamilton is no different to your Vettels, Schumachers and Sennas of the F1 world. That is all there is to be said.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18945
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 51
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by GSC on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:25 pm

Was speaking to Liam Craig Smile
GSC
GSC

Posts : 38998
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 27
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:27 pm

GSC wrote:Was speaking to Liam Craig Smile

Okay. thumbsup

I think it is just so clear. The very best drivers will do whatever it takes to win and often overstep the mark in order to win. The most successful F1 drivers of all-time all have that trait - a champions trait I'd call it.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18945
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 51
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Fernando on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:33 pm

I tend not to comment on Hamilton any more i made a tweet during the F1 Show that didn't go down well Laugh

Fernando
Fernando
Fernando

Posts : 36423
Join date : 2011-01-26
Age : 28
Location : buckinghamshire

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:37 pm

would you enlighten us?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Fernando on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:39 pm

With you guys it's probably better left unsaid Laugh

Fernando
Fernando
Fernando

Posts : 36423
Join date : 2011-01-26
Age : 28
Location : buckinghamshire

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:46 pm

well if it didn't go down too well, we can only assume you must of been talking nonsense.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Fernando on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:48 pm

That depends how far your head is up Hamilton's arse really....

Fernando
Fernando
Fernando

Posts : 36423
Join date : 2011-01-26
Age : 28
Location : buckinghamshire

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:54 pm

Fernando wrote:That depends how far your head is up Hamilton's arse really....

Aww Fernando....your namesake and hero had nice words for Hamilton so he holds no malice.



CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18945
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 51
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Fernando on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:58 pm

I have no issue with Lewis actually quite like him as a driver as a person ive met him he was a douche to everyone Laugh , What i have an issue with is the Sky/BBC coverage (as they did with Button) going he's joined the legends of the sport OK

He just hasn't Laugh

Fernando
Fernando
Fernando

Posts : 36423
Join date : 2011-01-26
Age : 28
Location : buckinghamshire

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 8:09 pm

3 times world champion, only four drivers in the history of the sport, have more titles to their name. he's third on most grand prix wins, third in pole positions, the last driver to win a world title & his team did not win the constructors. he's entered the legend box of drivers past & present, regardless of your stance on him

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Fernando on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 8:19 pm

Legend amongst present drivers sure. Legend in general no sorry if you win 2 titles in a dominant car & 1 because of a rain shower not a legend. 95% of people here don't consider Vettel one cos of his dominant car so your either hypocrites or just in denial over Vettel Laugh Whistle

Fernando
Fernando
Fernando

Posts : 36423
Join date : 2011-01-26
Age : 28
Location : buckinghamshire

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 8:31 pm

Fernando wrote:Legend amongst present drivers sure. Legend in general no sorry if you win 2 titles in a dominant car & 1 because of a rain shower not a legend. 95% of people here don't consider Vettel one cos of his dominant car so your either hypocrites or just in denial over Vettel Laugh Whistle

Your gripe is with Sky though and Sky do see Vettel as a legend so that negates your point on Sky/BBC. People here will always be prone to bias and their own favourites and opinions on who are the best of their time.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18945
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 51
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 8:36 pm

You do know winning the championship in 2008 was about performances over an entire season, not just Brazil. Claiming Hamilton solely won a title that year, because of a rain shower is embarrassing. McLaren failed to win the constructors that year, so if anything, it's a highlight of Hamilton's career, not something to criticise. All titles won have elements of luck attached to them throughout a season, so that point is just nonsense. The other two titles were won in a dominant car, well, guess what, the majority of all championships are won in the dominant car, that's F1 & motor racing. So again, a mute point.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 9:01 pm

Glad to see that over-sensitivity isn't just restricted to the tennis section Laugh

Followed this section for a few years now and it's quite interesting that Vettel wasn't getting any credit when sweeping all before him and now Lewis is doing something similar and it's great stuff. Headscratch

Strange.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 9:05 pm

I think Sir Jackie got it spot on. Prior to Sunday's race and speculation he was asked if Hamilton would be considered a legend if he won the title and Jackie said something like no because it takes time for it to sink in with people. A few years down the line he will be though I think was Jackie's point.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18945
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 51
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by GSC on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 9:14 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:Followed this section for a few years now and it's quite interesting that Vettel wasn't getting any credit when sweeping all before him and now Lewis is doing something similar and it's great stuff. Headscratch

Strange.

Believe me, its really not worth pointing this out.
GSC
GSC

Posts : 38998
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 27
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 9:24 pm

GSC wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:Followed this section for a few years now and it's quite interesting that Vettel wasn't getting any credit when sweeping all before him and now Lewis is doing something similar and it's great stuff. Headscratch

Strange.

Believe me, its really not worth pointing this out.

It really is all opinions that is all. Hamilton fans will always be able to point to world title No.1 won in a car not even able to win the constructors title. Vettel's fans will point to the fact he has won four.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18945
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 51
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 9:51 pm

Fernando wrote:1 because of a rain shower

Let's not be silly here and try to re-write history. Even ignoring the ridiculous stewarding that year (anyone remember Bourdais getting a penalty in Japan because Massa crashed into him - a penalty which conveniently gifted Massa another point), the rain shower did not help Lewis, in fact it nearly cost him the race.

At the time of the rain shower Hamilton, needing fifth place or better, was running a fairly comfortable fourth, with both Vettel and Glock behind him (Kovalainen was somewhere too, may even have been in front of one or both of those two, so virtually one more spot for Lewis there). Then the rain came down. Hamilton, Vettel and Kovalainen all pitted (Kovalainen may have lost a place during the pit stop, genuinely can't remember). Glock stayed out, and thus moved ahead of all three. This meant that Hamilton now needed to keep Vettel behind him. Hamilton then ran wide (maybe his tyres weren't up to temperature yet, maybe he was put off by Kubica unlapping himself, but it was a poor error), and Vettel went through. The rain though eventually made the track wet enough that Glock couldn't keep his pace, and Hamilton got past him into fifth right at the death.

So no, Hamilton didn't win "because of a rain shower", though he very nearly lost in part because of it.

I'm happy that a driver as good as Hamilton is not going to be stuck with just one championship win, in the same way I'm slightly disappointed that it looks unlikely now that Alonso (another of the top drivers of this generation) will remain stuck on two.

Thing is, drivers just don't win without a car that's at least on equal footing with the best in the field, and more often than not they win in a dominant car. Yes there are stand out performances, even wins, in less competitive cars, but never over the course of a whole championship.

As for the Hamilton vs Vettel vs Alonso debate, I guess a couple of things in Hamilton's favour are his win in what was maybe not the best car (McLaren was at best on a par with Ferrari that year, though they each had the advantage at various circuits), and the fact he's won titles in two different teams. Of course, Vettel could well go on to win several titles with Ferrari, which would obviously also be a fine achievement.

It's always tricky to compare different drivers in terms of "all-time greatness", where does Hakkinnen rank for instance? All-time great or not? In pure statistical terms Hamilton is right up there, as is Vettel. People will always have their criticisms (Hamilton at times too aggressive, had his fair share of crashes, Vettel struggles to win when not from the front, etc.), but I would probably, if pushed, put both of them up there, with Hamilton a little bit ahead for the reasons stated above...

Mad for Chelsea

Posts : 12021
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 10:22 pm

Only way you can really impress nowadays, is by winning titles with two different teams, which in this game, is seen as something special & differentiates yourself from other drivers achievements. Vettel & Hamilton are both legends of the sport in my opinion, their combinations of wins & poles & their placing in the all-time lists, deserve that status. Hamilton is older though, has spent a significant amount of time in Formula 1, having & contributing so much to the sport & so therefore, people will naturally label him with the legendary status now, especially having won three championships at two different outfits. Vettel is much younger, still has time to win titles at Ferrari & with him having four to his name already, will probably be seen as more of a legend, in general terms, than what Hamilton will be, when they are all retired.

As for Mika Hakkinen, I'd label him as a legend of the sport, even though he only won two titles, like Alonso. I'll never forget that overtake on Michael Schumacher at Spa, was just incredible & it was Schumacher who was famously quoted as saying that Mika was the only driver that he ever really feared. Says everything, for me.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by dyrewolfe on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 1:00 pm

LiamB wrote:
GSC wrote:Its pretty simple though. If Rosbergs alongside him (and he was at all times), he has to leave him room on the track

[1] That's the view of a neutral fan, looking for fairness. You really don't understand what is required in competitive sport, do you? I'm surprised by you GSC, I'd thought you'd understand the necessary decisions a driver has to make, in order to succeed & rise to the top of his sport. F1 is cut-throat, it really isn't about 'playing nice'. [2] The ruthlessness of Senna, Schumacher & Hamilton types, don't leave room for opponents to gain an advantage, they take the advantage for themselves. That's why they are multiple world champions, will be remembered amongst the greats of their respective era's & the reason the Rosberg name will be forgotten about in the history of the sport, other than his Dad's achievement.

[3] That is pretty simple to understand.

[1] Nope thats what the RULES state - you can defend your position and force another drive off their line, but NOT off the track.

Suppose there had been a barrier or gravel there. It would have ended Rosberg's race there and then and I'm guessing Wolff and co would have been a lot less happy about that.

Just because the track boundaries are usually only defined by a white line these days, doesn't mean you should be able to push people off with impunity.


[2] And if you recall, both Schumacher and Senna also had fairly chequered careers. As someone who evidently admires people who blatantly break the rules and deliberately push opponents off the track (or ram, in Senna's case), your logic is questionable at best.

I'm happy to acknowledge they were both brilliant drivers at their best, but my admiration of them is tempered by the knowledge they had dark sides to their characters and could be grossly unsporting.

For me a great sportsman doesn't need to cheat to win (yes, believe it or not, I consider deliberately pushing opponents off track cheating).

[3] Again, no. Its just you have a very simplistic (and wrong) viewpoint.
dyrewolfe
dyrewolfe

Posts : 6422
Join date : 2011-03-13
Location : Restaurant at the end of the Universe

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 1:30 pm

1. If Lewis' move broke the rules, he would of been investigated & penalised by the stewards. Was he investigated & penalised? No, he wasn't, so that pretty much ends that debate. Nobody else amongst the F1 paddock, thought it was a punishable manoeuvre, other than, you guessed it, Nico Rosberg. If a barrier had been placed there, it would have been up to Nico Rosberg to have yielded, seeing as he was on the outside line & had already lost the advantage, that pole had given him.

2. I admire champions, it's what separates the good, from the great. Champions have dark sides to their character, all top sportsman have this ingrained in them, they win at all costs & is the sole reason they climb to the top of their respective sports & ultimately become legends of the sport. Schumacher, Senna & Hamilton types are winners & they don't wait around for someone else to take the glory, they take it for themselves. You honestly think Hamilton is going to leave room for Nico & help him gain the advantage back & take the lead, when fighting for a championship. You must be stupid & don't understand the mindset of a F1 driver or a racer. Sport is about pushing to the limit & sometimes you do go past the line, as Kimi did with Bottas,  but Lewis' move or situation was never even remotely like that.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by GSC on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 3:57 pm

I can guarantee if Nico had yielded people would be saying same old nico, cant go wheel to wheel with Lewis.

Had Nico pushed Lewis wide the same people would be screaming for a penalty. Lewis included.

Its all very simple, he pushed him wide and failed to leave room on the track. If it was a mistake he should've let him back through. Forget all this nonsense about "controlled pushes" (seriously, of all the justifications that's easily the funniest/most delusional), and 300 style "this is motorsport" speeches.

Its a shame it overshadows one of the few great races this year, but some of the justifications I've seen so far have been truly delusional.
GSC
GSC

Posts : 38998
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 27
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 4:26 pm

GSC wrote:I can guarantee if Nico had yielded people would be saying same old nico, cant go wheel to wheel with Lewis.

Had Nico pushed Lewis wide the same people would be screaming for a penalty. Lewis included.

Its a shame it overshadows one of the few great races this year, but some of the justifications I've seen so far have been truly delusional.

1. No, you pick the right time to go wheel to wheel racing with Lewis, like when he overtook Lewis later on in the race, when he was in a position of strength on the race track. It's about the positioning of your racing car, that gives you the advantage when in wheel to wheel racing. Bahrain showed us that, Lewis' defensive positioning was won him that duel. Nico was not in a position of strength, you don't enter a duel with someone like Hamilton, not when you've had a poor start, put yourself in a disadvantaged position on the outside, whereby you know there will be little to room to manoeuvre. Nico has already had first hand experience of situations like this

2. Hypothetical & an assumption. Pointless statement

3. The only people on here, who are delusional, are the ones that don't understand F1 & why Lewis wasn't investigated or penalised. In your world it was a penalty offence, in reality it was RACING.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by GSC on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 4:32 pm

When you're slightly ahead, and in perfect position to carry more speed on the exit of the corner isnt a good time to go wheel to wheel? Sorry dont buy that one. Nico makes the corner easily and has the advantage of speed being on the outside until Lewis pushes him off the track.
GSC
GSC

Posts : 38998
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 27
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 4:34 pm

Even had he wanted to, or the stewards/his team demanded it, there's no way Lewis could have let Rosberg back through, because Rosberg had by then dropped down to fourth.

I maintain my view that it was aggressive from Hamilton, but that he didn't break any rules. I don't agree that had they been racing for different teams he would have been penalised, much worse incidents than that one have been written off as "racing incidents" which is what this one was.

I'll say it again. Realistically, when trying to overtake (thus braking as late as possible) on the inside, Hamilton was always going to run a bit wide at that corner, especially considering it was the first corner of the race (so cold tyres) and in wet conditions (so less grip). Rosberg should have anticipated this, and as soon as Hamilton had the inside, Rosberg should have braked earlier to get a better exit and look for the cut back under Hamilton. Unfortunately Rosberg isn't really a natural racer, so he didn't react quickly enough.

Mad for Chelsea

Posts : 12021
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by GSC on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 4:38 pm

Being alongside Nico throughout the turn, perhaps Lewis should anticipate the rules require him to leave room on the track.

Seems to me he made a mistake, carried too much speed and pushed his teammate off. Is it not easier to simply admit that than coming up with excuses to justify?
GSC
GSC

Posts : 38998
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 27
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 5:14 pm

I am not sure what the point of all this is though?

Are those saying Hamilton did something nasty at the first corner and should have been punished? Even if this is correct it sets him no further aside from Vettel, Schumacher, Senna, Alonso et al. They all drove to win at all costs and frequently went beyond the boundaries of the rules. It is what sets them apart from normal drivers - an insatiable hunger to win at any cost even if it means running someone off the track.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18945
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 51
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 6:55 pm

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk3rcc_nurburgring-sortie-des-stands_auto

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yCbPaWD0Gvc 7.30 onwards

These are examples from Hockenheim in 2011. 

Basically GSC, would you penalise Alonso for what he did in the first video? They enter the corner with Mark's wing actually slightly ahead on the outside & Alonso intentionally forces Mark beyond the racing, white lines of the racing track, something your saying Lewis basically did to Nico in Austin

Second video showing Hamilton forcing Webber completely off the track onto the Astro turf. To me, perfect examples of aggressive, defensive driving of a ruthless champion, making sure that he kept the advantage. Neither driver was penalised, but would you have penalised Hamilton for that move on Webber?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 7:08 pm

I remember that race, was quality. I have no problem with Alonso's move at all in the first video, it's very similar to the Hamilton/Rosberg situation, just without the slight nudge beforehand. As for the second video, that move was ultra aggressive, bordering on what is acceptable, but that defensive ruthlessness, was the difference between winning that race, as Hamilton did, or losing it. 

Basically, drivers like this, are going to push the boundaries or rules every time they step into the car. If you start punishing drivers for moves like this, I fear, you're just going to end up killing the sport.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Wed 28 Oct 2015, 8:02 pm

LiamB wrote:https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk3rcc_nurburgring-sortie-des-stands_auto

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yCbPaWD0Gvc 7.30 onwards

These are examples from Hockenheim in 2011. 

Basically GSC, would you penalise Alonso for what he did in the first video? They enter the corner with Mark's wing actually slightly ahead on the outside & Alonso intentionally forces Mark beyond the racing, white lines of the racing track, something your saying Lewis basically did to Nico in Austin

Second video showing Hamilton forcing Webber completely off the track onto the Astro turf. To me, perfect examples of aggressive, defensive driving of a ruthless champion, making sure that he kept the advantage. Neither driver was penalised, but would you have penalised Hamilton for that move on Webber?
Must say I liked those clips. Basically there were numerous similar situations to what occurred between Hamilton and Rosberg, except the others that were on the outside (like Rosberg) purposely drove off the track into the run off area to avoid contact. It suggested that Rosberg should have drove off the track to avoid the contact, while maintaining speed and he may not have lost the two other places.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Trebs on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:11 am

Sorry but the argument Hamilton shouldn't have let Rosberg through because he was down in 5th is silly. If that's the reason why not then he should have had a penalty.

All said, i think there has to be a complaint for the stewards to investigate this sort of incident. So if Nico/Mercedes don't complain to the stewards then nothing doing.

Trebs

Posts : 14631
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 12:05 pm

This particular incident between Lewis & Nico is a bit of a non-issue, as it didn't compromise Nico's race in the long term...in the end it was his own mistake that cost him.

However I still don't like to see drivers forcing others off the track, especially if there is plenty of space. Hamilton had at least 2 cars' widths to his left, so pushing Nico off was totally needless. He could have made the overtake without doing that.

If you're attempting an overtake on the outside and voluntarily go off track, or brake too late, thats another issue altogether.
dyrewolfe
dyrewolfe

Posts : 6422
Join date : 2011-03-13
Location : Restaurant at the end of the Universe

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 12:58 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:However I still don't like to see drivers forcing others off the track, especially if there is plenty of space.

Well, you must dislike the majority of F1 overtakes or defensive driving, which occur in slow corners. It is pretty much ingrained into every F1 driver from a young age, from karting, through junior formula's, to defensively squeeze your competition out-wide & minimise his chance of overtaking or re-overtaking depending on the situation.

So, in my video I posted, you didn't like Alonso forcing Webber off at Nurburgring in 2011 & would of penalised him, seeing as Mark was forced beyond the white lines of the racing track?

Two perfect examples from Bahrain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjVhWtVJVI - from 1.55 onwards. Sergio Perez attacking Hulkenberg down the inside, Sergio makes the overtake & then intentionally goes long & forces Hulkenberg wide & to slow into no space. Then, moments later, Rosberg attacking Hamilton at turn 4, Lewis defends aggressively & forces Nico Rosberg wide & onto the curbs, even though there was plenty of space.

Another example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TlUl8P442I - Lewis defending aggressively to keep Nico behind in Hungary & forces Nico wide & onto the curbs. Penalty, in your eyes?

I just don't think people understand the mindset of F1 drivers, especially the ruthless champions, in why they drive to the limit, both offensively & defensively, in order to achieve their dreams of winning races & the ultimate goal of becoming a world champion. If you don't drive this way, you get spat out the back door. This is how F1 works.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 2:16 pm

LiamB wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:However I still don't like to see drivers forcing others off the track, especially if there is plenty of space.

Well, you must dislike the majority of F1 overtakes or defensive driving, which occur in slow corners. It is pretty much ingrained into every F1 driver from a young age, from karting, through junior formula's, to defensively squeeze your competition out-wide & minimise his chance of overtaking or re-overtaking depending on the situation.

Have to agree with this. Every F1 driver is calibrated to behave like this, in that racing situation. Of course, forcing someone completely off track is unacceptable, however, the great drivers know how to push the boundaries, so that their actions can be difficult to interepret, whether it's a clear penalty or just a racing incident. That's the problem with F1, the rules are not clearly defined & are inconsistent, hence why drivers like Hamilton & other greats of the past, have been able to push it to the limit & exploit them to their advantage.

As for the Bahrain & Hungary incidents, they are just examples of great defensive driving from Hamilton & making your car as big as possible. If you start punishing that, I simply won't be watching F1 anymore.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Guest on Fri 30 Oct 2015, 9:18 am

Nico Rosberg has confirmed his mistake at the Austin GP, was because of a gust of wind. picard

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 30 Oct 2015, 12:22 pm

John wrote:
LiamB wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:However I still don't like to see drivers forcing others off the track, especially if there is plenty of space.

Well, you must dislike the majority of F1 overtakes or defensive driving, which occur in slow corners. It is pretty much ingrained into every F1 driver from a young age, from karting, through junior formula's, to defensively squeeze your competition out-wide & minimise his chance of overtaking or re-overtaking depending on the situation.

Have to agree with this. Every F1 driver is calibrated to behave like this, in that racing situation. Of course, forcing someone completely off track is unacceptable, however, the great drivers know how to push the boundaries, so that their actions can be difficult to interepret, whether it's a clear penalty or just a racing incident. That's the problem with F1, the rules are not clearly defined & are inconsistent, hence why drivers like Hamilton & other greats of the past, have been able to push it to the limit & exploit them to their advantage.

As for the Bahrain & Hungary incidents, they are just examples of great defensive driving from Hamilton & making your car as big as possible. If you start punishing that, I simply won't be watching F1 anymore.

Thats pretty much what I was getting at. Of course drivers should be allowed to use the whole track...and maybe a bit more...when attacking or defending. Its the deliberate and unnecessary "slamming the door" I don't like, where one driver has no option but to go completely off track in order to avoid a collision. IF there is sufficient space for both cars and neither one has lost control, then that sort of action should be punishable IMO.

Also agree that the rules on this kind of thing are too woolly and are generally dependent on who the steward is and what kind of mood they're in on the day...hence the inconsistency. Shouldn't be too hard IMO to come up with a definition of what constitutes unnecessary forcing off the track and instruct stewards to apply it consistently, regardless of whether they personally feel its "just a racing incident" or not.


LiamB wrote:
Nico Rosberg has confirmed his mistake at the Austin GP, was because of a gust of wind.  

Oh dear. He really shouldn't have had those refried beans for lunch. drumroll
dyrewolfe
dyrewolfe

Posts : 6422
Join date : 2011-03-13
Location : Restaurant at the end of the Universe

Back to top Go down

F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon - Page 2 Empty Re: F1 American GP Thread - Contains spoilers - Sponsored by Corn Dogs & Bourbon

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum