#PrayForParis

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Post by NickisBHAFC on Fri 13 Nov 2015, 11:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

Simply.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 15 Nov 2015, 5:40 pm

With this section and the way some people react to mods, it really is hard to tell.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Sun 15 Nov 2015, 7:01 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:...Just had someone link me a picture of the theatre after the massacre inside and he can't understand why I think it's a vile and unnecessary thing to have decided to take a photo.
With you 100% on the above. I don't understand the mentality of far too many people these days.
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Post by Gwlad on Sun 22 Nov 2015, 3:44 am

#Pray for Beirut

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Post by Derbymanc on Sun 22 Nov 2015, 12:37 pm

Why not start a thread up with the details in it Gwlad, just looks petty to put it in this thread imo

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 22 Nov 2015, 12:44 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Why not start a thread up with the details in it Gwlad, just looks petty to put it in this thread imo

I find his posts quite disturbing......

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Post by Gwlad on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:22 am

You guys just dont get it do you.

Does anyone care when it is a Middle Eastern massacre?

Until you do you'll continue to be part of the problem.

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Post by Scottrf on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 8:13 am

Do you turn up to a funeral and ask them why they aren't mourning another person who died at a similar time?

This thread isn't the appropriate place.

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Post by Derbymanc on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:12 am

Scotty sums it up perfectly for me.

GWLAD, your like the person that moans at everyone for not knowing about something and not actually saying what it is. Start another thread with the details in so people can put their thoughts across, not just put a 1 liner in this one and then try and berate everyone else, it's a C U Next Tuesdays trick

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Post by kingraf on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:38 am

Derbymanc wrote:Scotty sums it up perfectly for me.

GWLAD, your like the person that moans at everyone for not knowing about something and not actually saying what it is. Start another thread with the details in so people can put their thoughts across, not just put a 1 liner in this one and then try and berate everyone else, it's a C U Next Tuesdays trick

Think there is something to it from both sides here. Definitely not the appropriate place at all, I'm a little surprised to be honest. That said, I don't think the funeral analogy quite covers what's happening. This is more akin to when there's a series of violent murders in your street which you've ignored and are now concerned when your next door neighbour gets killed. Maybe something could have been done if we noted there was crazy violence in the area?

Mind you, I still don't know what happened in Beirut... I try to keep my bad news quotient to one crappy terrorism attack a weekend.
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Post by dummy_half on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:40 am

KR

It's an interesting dynamic. Clearly there are issues based on the news agenda, but also our sympathies are more likely to go out to those more culturally like us - western Europeans and North Americans (plus Aus and NZ) . A bomb in Beiruit (or Israel, Iraq), hostage situations in Mali etc and there is a little of the attitude of 'well, that's not particularly surprising', while a series of attacks as in Paris has a much greater shock value.

As for what to do about ISIS, I'd be quite happy for the UK and US to take something of a back seat and leave it up to the Russians, French, Syrians and other Middle East powers to get rid of the ISIS stronghold in the Iraq / Syria border region. Our (UK government, with the help of the British Muslim community) job is to win the hearts and minds battle, to minimise the number of young Muslims attracted to the ISIS ideology - I don't think many really are attracted to the warped version of Islam that is promoted, and that it is more the attraction of paramilitary conflict against the West and those we apparently support.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:53 am

I disagree dummy.......I have nothing but sympathy for the Palestinians and how they have been shafted...and so do many others who don't share their culture..

I don't particularly like the French......

I just have this thing about innocent people getting slaughtered by cowardly attacks committed by people they haven't got a problem with in non war situations...

If anyone should have a problem with the USA it should be Cuba or North Vietnam..Or even the Japanese decimated by two bombs..

It's not about Islam apparently and yet non Islamic countries seem to bear no grudges..

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Post by dummy_half on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:09 pm

Truss

You aren't typical of the population though...

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:11 pm

and you can't speak for them either..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:21 pm

Considering Israeli people are closer to our culture than Palestinianian people and have been fighting for heaven knows how long..

When asked the question should Palestinians get their own independent state ?

France    54% yes........20 no...
Germany 53................28 .....
UK          53................26......
China      56.................9

Even Americans back it 45 - 36..............

Nothing to do about culture............

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:36 pm

dummy_half wrote:KR

It's an interesting dynamic. Clearly there are issues based on the news agenda, but also our sympathies are more likely to go out to those more culturally like us - western Europeans and North Americans (plus Aus and NZ) . A bomb in Beiruit (or Israel, Iraq), hostage situations in Mali etc and there is a little of the attitude of 'well, that's not particularly surprising', while a series of attacks as in Paris has a much greater shock value.

As for what to do about ISIS, I'd be quite happy for the UK and US to take something of a back seat and leave it up to the Russians, French, Syrians and other Middle East powers to get rid of the ISIS stronghold in the Iraq / Syria border region. Our (UK government, with the help of the British Muslim community) job is to win the hearts and minds battle, to minimise the number of young Muslims attracted to the ISIS ideology - I don't think many really are attracted to the warped version of Islam that is promoted, and that it is more the attraction of paramilitary conflict against the West and those we apparently support.

Accurate summary for me, pretty much agree entirely.

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Post by Gwlad on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:48 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Scotty sums it up perfectly for me.

GWLAD, your like the person that moans at everyone for not knowing about something and not actually saying what it is. Start another thread with the details in so people can put their thoughts across, not just put a 1 liner in this one and then try and berate everyone else, it's a C U Next Tuesdays trick

Scott's analogy is utterly ridiculous, this isn't a funeral its a discussion forum and and you can't see whats in front of your own face (and less of the C U next tuesday stuff, putting that on a forum suggests you are one yourself)

What you clearly don't understand is that the two are very much linked because, and i repeat for the hard of hearing, until people hurt for all the people murdered by terrorists, and not just the westerners, then the problem will continue

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:59 pm

Gwlad wrote:Scott's analogy is utterly ridiculous, this isn't a funeral its a discussion forum and and you can't see whats in front of your own face (and less of the C U next tuesday stuff, putting that on a forum suggests you are one yourself)

What you clearly don't understand is that the two are very much linked because, and i repeat for the hard of  hearing, until people hurt for all the people murdered by terrorists, and not just the westerners, then the problem will continue
Seriously though, why don't you start a thread making your point above? When you do, you can fill us all in on the recent Beirut bit.
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Post by Scottrf on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 5:07 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Seriously though, why don't you start a thread making your point above? When you do, you can fill us all in on the recent Beirut bit.
Because it's easier to whinge about what other people are doing (only after many others had made the same point) than to do something yourself.

The analogy is fine btw. Just because something is linked doesn't mean you can't be upset about one without expressing an opinion about another at that particular time. 'Scott's analogy is utterly ridiculous, this isn't a funeral its a discussion forum' well yeah that's why it's an analogy...

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Post by Gwlad on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 5:10 pm

Scottrf wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Seriously though, why don't you start a thread making your point above? When you do, you can fill us all in on the recent Beirut bit.
Because it's easier to whinge about what other people are doing (only after many others had made the same point) than to do something yourself.

The analogy is fine btw. Just because something is linked doesn't mean you can't be upset about one without expressing an opinion about another at that particular time. 'Scott's analogy is utterly ridiculous, this isn't a funeral its a discussion forum' well yeah that's why it's an analogy...

Scott, the only whinger  on here appears to be you

The analogy is ridiculous. We aren't at  funeral, we are on a forum. Quit your mock outrage.

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Post by Scottrf on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 5:11 pm

You clearly don't understand the concept of an analogy. It doesn't matter if the comparison is to a funeral or a themepark. That's just the vehicle for the transfer of the concept.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 5:30 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Considering Israeli people are closer to our culture than Palestinianian people and have been fighting for heaven knows how long..

When asked the question should Palestinians get their own independent state ?

France    54% yes........20 no...
Germany 53................28 .....
UK          53................26......
China      56.................9

Even Americans back it 45 - 36..............

Nothing to do about culture............

First off I will fill you on something.

The Israelis who occupy Israel today are NOT the ancient Hebrew Israelites of the bible. It is a historical and more importantly a Biblical FACT that the ancient Hebrew Israelites were the so called Negros of the Americas and the Carribean. Please see Deut in the bible. The current Israelis today have NO connection to the original Hebrew Israelites they are mostly Khazian from eastern europe. The others are Saphardic converts.

Please review the biblical curses for more clarification.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:46 pm

As a British citizen and member of the European Union, a French life does mean more than a Lebanese one, I can get to Paris in a couple of hours so yes it does affect me more and yes I do care about it more. Add in knowing people who live in the city and visiting it regularly myself I find it perfectly acceptable to comment and worry about it more than something that happened thousands of miles away.

The attacks in Paris were evil and inhumane, there is no justification for them nor do I care to see or hear any attempts at justifying it.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Tue 24 Nov 2015, 5:25 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:As a British citizen and member of the European Union, a French life does mean more than a Lebanese one, I can get to Paris in a couple of hours so yes it does affect me more and yes I do care about it more. Add in knowing people who live in the city and visiting it regularly myself I find it perfectly acceptable to comment and worry about it more than something that happened thousands of miles away.

The attacks in Paris were evil and inhumane, there is no justification for them nor do I care to see or hear any attempts at justifying it.

Genuinely sad to here that

Shame on you then.

A life is a life regardless of nationality, creed, race, sexuality. There are horrors happening at the moment no matter who you believe is behind them but I am still what I was when I was born a human being nothing can come before that.Whenever a tragedy takes place I feel the pain on a human level not because I am British, French or otherwise but because I am flesh and bone, blood and water. If the recent events have effected you this bad then I suggest you take time to think before you post what you have because you essentially sound like an ISIS or a Nazi.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 24 Nov 2015, 8:53 am

Except it's both normal, human and natural to relate more to deaths of those 'closer' to you isn't it 1-2?
I recognise the deaths of those distant from me but don't suggest that it would be 'normal' for people to feel an equal depth of horror/loss/whatever for the deaths of everyone on the planet.
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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 24 Nov 2015, 9:11 am

There's being able to relate to one more and then there's valuing one more than the other. Different things, in my opinion.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 24 Nov 2015, 9:24 am

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:As a British citizen and member of the European Union, a French life does mean more than a Lebanese one, I can get to Paris in a couple of hours so yes it does affect me more and yes I do care about it more. Add in knowing people who live in the city and visiting it regularly myself I find it perfectly acceptable to comment and worry about it more than something that happened thousands of miles away.

The attacks in Paris were evil and inhumane, there is no justification for them nor do I care to see or hear any attempts at justifying it.

Genuinely sad to here that

Shame on you then.

A life is a life regardless of nationality, creed, race, sexuality. There are horrors happening at the moment no matter who you believe is behind them but I am still what I was when I was born a human being nothing can come before that.Whenever a tragedy takes place I feel the pain on a human level not because I am British, French or otherwise but because I am flesh and bone, blood and water. If the recent events have effected you this bad then I suggest you take time to think before you post what you have because you essentially sound like an ISIS or a Nazi.

Would you weap at the death of Margaret Thatcher the same as you would your own mother then?

After all, all deaths are equal....

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Tue 24 Nov 2015, 10:42 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:As a British citizen and member of the European Union, a French life does mean more than a Lebanese one, I can get to Paris in a couple of hours so yes it does affect me more and yes I do care about it more. Add in knowing people who live in the city and visiting it regularly myself I find it perfectly acceptable to comment and worry about it more than something that happened thousands of miles away.

The attacks in Paris were evil and inhumane, there is no justification for them nor do I care to see or hear any attempts at justifying it.

Genuinely sad to here that

Shame on you then.

A life is a life regardless of nationality, creed, race, sexuality. There are horrors happening at the moment no matter who you believe is behind them but I am still what I was when I was born a human being nothing can come before that.Whenever a tragedy takes place I feel the pain on a human level not because I am British, French or otherwise but because I am flesh and bone, blood and water. If the recent events have effected you this bad then I suggest you take time to think before you post what you have because you essentially sound like an ISIS or a Nazi.

Would you weap at the death of Margaret Thatcher the same as you would your own mother then?

After all, all deaths are equal....

The point is the Paris victims and the victims in Syria Iraq Lebonon are all connected by the same conflict. To ignore 1 and recognize the other is disrespectful imo.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 24 Nov 2015, 10:47 am

Understand your point, it's a bit like the minimal coverage this received the same weekend despite, essentially, being the same Islamic extremism:

http://www.antoinespeaks.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/most-people-wont-share-this-because.html?m=1&

However I think it's logical to be affected most by that which you relate to the most and which has the greatest proximity to one's own life - not just geographical but social & emotional.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Tue 24 Nov 2015, 10:53 am

[quote="TopHat24/7"]Understand your point, it's a bit like the minimal coverage this received the same weekend despite, essentially, being the same Islamic extremism:

http://www.antoinespeaks.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/most-people-wont-share-this-because.html?m=1&

However I think it's logical to be affected most by that which you relate to the most and which has the greatest proximity to one's own life - not just geographical but social & emotional.0]quote]

Correct but it seems we demonize the victims in Syria to the point that we see them as the enemy.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 24 Nov 2015, 10:56 am

Depends on the individual's ability to relate......


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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 24 Nov 2015, 10:57 am

Good question that Toppy Smile,

I stand by my original statement Glad as your still trying to push an 'I'm better than you because look how much I care' it's a definite unts trick and seen over social media etc all the time. (Tumblr might be better suited for your 'outrage')

Funnily enough you still haven't started a different thread giving us the details of whats happened and i'd be interested to know if it's big news out there and to the country's surrounding it.

Of course there are occasions when you will relate to something more, be it a massive event like Paris or a small event elsewhere. As Pr4wn put it though it's how you value things that seperates you.

Any atrocity is absolutely terrible but instead of trying to play a game of one upsmanship (which makes you look a twit) educate people to the things they don't know (And I don't mean push your feelings, explain whats happened and then ask people for their views)

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Post by kingraf on Tue 24 Nov 2015, 1:06 pm

dummy_half wrote:KR

It's an interesting dynamic. Clearly there are issues based on the news agenda, but also our sympathies are more likely to go out to those more culturally like us - western Europeans and North Americans (plus Aus and NZ) . A bomb in Beiruit (or Israel, Iraq), hostage situations in Mali etc and there is a little of the attitude of 'well, that's not particularly surprising', while a series of attacks as in Paris has a much greater shock value.

As for what to do about ISIS, I'd be quite happy for the UK and US to take something of a back seat and leave it up to the Russians, French, Syrians and other Middle East powers to get rid of the ISIS stronghold in the Iraq / Syria border region. Our (UK government, with the help of the British Muslim community) job is to win the hearts and minds battle, to minimise the number of young Muslims attracted to the ISIS ideology - I don't think many really are attracted to the warped version of Islam that is promoted, and that it is more the attraction of paramilitary conflict against the West and those we apparently support.

Probably more of the bold than the italicised. And that's okay. Don't think theres anything particularly strange about it. But at the same time, its probably that attitude (and I'm guilty of it too living in SA where for all the problems we have, terror attacks - especially external ones - aren't even on the radar) that attitude of "well, Africa/Middle East is on fire again... lolz" that led to these groups gaining ground. Gaining the heart's and minds of extremists and Westernised immigrants who feel the pull of "home", or burning the world to the ground. ISIS fight under different rules, the madness of Jihad has it that if you go to war with 50 000 men against a nation with 30 000 and you kill them then you've won. But on the other hand if you go war with 50 000 and the other nation comes with 80 000 and decimate your men... then you've won because you know.. jihad life
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